In other news, Ronaldo scored a very good hat trick in the Copa del Rey along with a nice assist to Khedira. The first goal in particular was brilliant.
Cristiano Ronaldo
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It's very hard to feel sorry for a guy like Ronaldo who pretty much has it all, talent, lifestyle, looks, women and perfect job, but as a Footballer of his talent that comes along once a generation and he is overshadowed by a freak of nature that has talent we probably won't see again.
Without Messi, Ronaldo would have 5 Ballon Dor's in a row, which would be a record.
Without Messi, Ronaldo would have 5 Ballon Dor's in a row, which would be a record.
He probably wouldn't have won it in 2009 and he certainly wouldn't have won it in 2010.
He came runner up in 2009 and you might argue that Xavi and Inesta wouldn't have had such a successful club year in 2010 without Messi. Semantics anyway, the point is that if you take Messi out of the picture Ronaldo would standout as a unique player in his generation of footballers.
Xavi and Iniesta's main achievement in 2010 was winning the World Cup, Messi would have had no impact on that. But yes, he'd stand out as this generation's best player, 5 Ballon d'Or in a row is pushing it though.
Jeez, some hat-trick that is! WOW.
So, when Messi won it in 2010, the whole of the caf said that sneijder deserved it more. However, according to the caf, if Messi hadn't been here then, Ronaldo would have won it 5 times in a row. Was there anything that Ronaldo did in 2010 that was more exceptional than Messi in that year? Goalpost shifting again.
I genuinely love Ronaldo I don't hate Messi but I just love watching Ronaldo play and I don't think he isbetter than messi but I also don't think there is a big gap in talent. It seems to me that he really isn't getting the credit he deserves. Did anyone see him against Real sociedad this past week he was amazing
No-one hates Messi, but his talent goes far beyond that of Ronaldo. Messi is up there with the great Pele, then there are Zidane, Platini, Cruyff, George Best, Gerd Muller, then you have Ronaldo. Ronaldo is closer to the 2nd group, but he is long from being a member of the first. Even Messi wasn't here, he might have won more Ballon D'Ors, but he couldn't be considered an all-time great.
What sets messi apart I think I'm blinded by bias because I love Ronaldo so much. I don't see or maybe I'm just in denial
Attitude, Work Rate, Dribbling, Finishing, Passing
Dribbling and passing for sure. The others are debatable. I think Messi scores more due to being better in general and hence being able to create more chances for himself due to his technical brilliance, not to mention the team he plays in. And does he work harder than Ronaldo? He pretty much plays as a CF these days doesn't he? Does he actually track back and help out with the defending? I doubt someone in that position would actually even need to track back all that much.
Messi is a better finisher than Ronaldo
That's highly debatable and not at all clear cut
I didn't say it was clear cut, I just have an opinion on it
Not debatable at all. Messi has a better shots/goal ratio and has outscored Ronaldo in every season since 08/09. (They were tied however in 10/11)
But for the existence for Lionel Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo may well have bagged five gold ball awards by now, with more to come.
Also you're debating work rate and attitude? Really?
Messi doesn't stay static, he drops back into midfield to win back the ball all the time, and when he played on the wing he was the same, always helping the full back. Ronaldo barely ever tracks back, and when he does he doesn't give his full effort. Attitude wise, Messi barely ever throws the diva strops Ronaldo does, he gets on with his job.
Ronaldo has a history of hysterics, the slave comments, tossing his track suit to the ground when he was here, the arm jestures, his comments this season about being unhappy. Messi just gets on with his job.
Messi doesn't stay static, he drops back into midfield to win back the ball all the time, and when he played on the wing he was the same, always helping the full back. Ronaldo barely ever tracks back, and when he does he doesn't give his full effort. Attitude wise, Messi barely ever throws the diva strops Ronaldo does, he gets on with his job.
Ronaldo has a history of hysterics, the slave comments, tossing his track suit to the ground when he was here, the arm jestures, his comments this season about being unhappy. Messi just gets on with his job.
If Ronaldo was in the same environment as messi with xavi and friends don't you think his goal ratio would be higher ? Barcelona is considered a better team so better results. Hypothetically speaking if Ronaldo replaced messi would the results be same ?
You can debate any side of anything, but it would take a deranged mind to reach the conclusion that Messi has not been the best finisher on the planet over the last four seasons.
Shots/goal ratio is not the best indication imo because Ronaldo loves to take shots from just about anywhere. Missing them does not equate to being a poor finisher or not as good as Messi at it. When he gets a good chance, he usually buries it. Mess is more economical
At this rate, we'll have to maintain goal counters for the calendar year for these two guys. I hope he fails against us, feck off Ronaldo.
Barcelona plays to Messi's strengths and Madrid to Ronaldo's. Ronaldo wouldn't work as well in Barcelona's possession football and Messi mightn't work as well in Madrid's counter attack game.
Shots/goal ratio shows Messi takes far less shots to score. This and the goal scoring stats from the last 5 seasons show he's a better finisher
Ronaldo was on fire today (yesterday, by now). A massive offside call feck up by the linesman disallowed a goal, leaving him with one three today. Insane goals, too, not tap ins.
Wasn't there a thread for Messi and Ronaldo comparisons?
Yep, but whenever you say that Ronaldo is bloody good, you will have a bunch of people screaming at you saying Messi is better, even if the original statement said that had it not been for Messi, Ronaldo would be a class above, subsequently implying that Messi is better.
You have forgotten the insane number of times he lobbed the goalkeeper with either foot last season, a skill that takes courage since you could be a hero, or look a fool. His finishing is class!!
This.
Oh, indeed it is. It is all about confidence at the end. Ronaldo scores good goals from outside the box a great deal. He doesn't really have the confidence to try and go against a wall of 4 or 5 players and beat them and then shoot or even pass to a team mate, hence the reason why he likes to shoot from long range. Messi has confidence in his abilities to beat more than 3 defenders at any given time without stepovers.
He has. Even the likes of Michu, RVP and Hernandez have better shots/goal ratios. Van Persie has an average 3.2 shots per game in the Premier league and look at how many he has scored. He is efficient. Scoring 2 goals out of 11 shots means he is only 18% efficient. Van Persie is probably upto around 30%+ efficiency, perhaps more. I will find out later on.
I refer you to my post about Sneijder since he has been conveniently forgotten.
He would have been sold on since his team ethic isn't the same as Xavi or Iniesta or others. He is all about personal glory rather than helping the team play Tiki taka.
All that's fine but what the feck has that got to do with finishing? And why feck around trying to beat 5 players when you can smash it in from distance?
When I say finishing, I mean converting the chances he gets and Ronaldo is fantastic at that. Having pot shots from distance and missing them does not mean he's a bad finisher. oh and I am no Ronaldo fanboi, Messi is clearly the better player, better passer, better dribbler and less selfish than Ronaldo.
Does it matter how someone scores his goals? (Unless you are Suarez and score with your hand) When did how you score goal become more important?
Remind me how many times his shot has rebounded off a defenders leg or midriff.
As for chance conversion, that is total codswallop to be honest. If you can find some statistics for me, I will be happy to look at them. For instance, he had 13 shots against Real Sociedad and scored 2 didn't he? Now, you do the maths and come back to me with a reasonable argument to suggest his chance conversion is "fantastic." Just to put things into perspective. Michu has scored 13 goals from 30 shots in the premier league or a conversion rate of 43%. However, Ronaldo's conversion rate from that Real Sociedad alone was 15%, which is terrible.
Surely 100 mazey runs and 40 yard blasters show more about a player than a tap in? (Don't say the positional argument because surely the amount of positives from the 40 yard blasters and mazey runs would be attributes to rank above those of someone who typically scores tap ins?) Not that again this is set in stone, I am speaking generally
And remind me how many times messi tries to dribble past 5 players only to get crowded out... Ronaldo is not as good as Messi is at dribbling and which is why he doesn't bother. It's not a lack of confidence as you suggest (And it's ridiculous to suggest Ronaldo lacks confidence) but that he knows his limitations.
Taking shots from 40 yards does not count as a chance. His shots to goals ratio is terrible because he is selfish and takes on shots from ridiculous distances not because he is a terrible finisher. Ronaldo is a good finisher and when he gets a chance 9 times out of 10 he will finish it off. And if you think shots from distance count as chance then you are are beyond help
As a 'clear cut' chance, maybe not, but a 'chance', yes it does, he turned it into a chance by taking the shot...
What I am talking about is chances like his second goal yesterday from the Modric pass. When he gets 'chances' like that he scores more often than not
I dare say I agree with your point, and most of the one's your TRYING to make at least
- Didn't want to be pedantic but just pointing out, IMO the reason why CR has a worse goals to shots ratio, reflects the fact that Messi will only shot more often when he is at a better chance of scoring, CR does take the long belter on quite often, so of course his stats will be lower per shot but argueably for that shot Messi didn't take, he may have worked a better position or equally lost it, I typically stay away from these threads because comprehensively you cannot provide an answer that cannot be 'argued' for both sides...That's the main one that sets him apart, he is so far ahead of everyone else it's unreal.
Now you really are way off the mark. It is not counted as a chance, but it is counted as a shot on goal. If he misses the target, it is still a shot. This is why he has so many shots in a game. However, the point I am trying to make with you is that his shot conversion rate from the number of shots he has is ridiculously low. Those 2 goals from 13 shots are not 2 goals from 13 chances, simply shots. This is why the likes of Michu, RVP, Chicharito have superior goals to shots ratios.
"Not wasting a chance" doesn't mean it's not "wasting an opportunity to create a chance".
That reflects the difference in their playing style more than their finishing ability. Also, I'd say Messi's decision-making is better: Ronaldo just loves shooting from everywhere at every opportunity, Messi is far less... trigger-happy.
Messi is the better player but I don't think as a finisher he is superior to Ronaldo.
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