Platini has 9 goals in 5 EC games 
Cristiano Ronaldo
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Only six are in the actual tournament though. Not that six is bad but it seems there's a record for everything, I guess.
It also made him the all-time leading scorer against Armenia in European Championships qualifying games played in Group I.
Yeah, his Euro performance in '84 is unmatched. If he performed on that level at a World Cup, he'd be up there with Maradona and Pele as the best ever. Not that his World Cup performances weren't good, he was still excellent and unlucky to go out against cynical German teams twice in the semifinal.Platini has 9 goals in 5 EC games
Platini is the perfect example, why World Cups matter so much. If not for Zidane's final performance in '98, Platini would still be uncontested as the greatest French player of all time. It's really just a single game that puts Zidane on the same level.
Please. Nobody cared, when Tomasson had this "record", just like nobody cares that Ali Daei has scored 35 goals in World Cup qualifying. Now that Nike put the hype machine on for Ronaldo, we need to pretend this suddenly means something.
It's a bit silly, really. World Cup is very relevant but as long as a player has shone in it, it shouldn't make a great player lesser than a lesser one.
True, also from that list it immediately becomes clear that it's mostly 1990s/00s players for sub-top NTs, so that says something in itself. Same principle for Ali Daei at WC level. That's the context bit which makes it less impressive than it sounds stated in absolutes, don't know the amount of appearances by the others either, but I'd bet it's less than Cristiano.
Thanks for the summary!
It wasn't the best of his games and i personally thought that Nani was better (had the assist) but he did score another decisive goal (was a tap in but credit for his positioning). Ronaldo worked alot, again alot more team oriented, tried to create but sometimes he is letdown by the severe limitations of the team. Danny isn't the same Danny from Zenit. Postiga is...well he's Postiga. He simply misses most of the good passes by Ronaldo, Nani and Moutinho because he's not good enough, smart enough because he's clueless in the offensive end in terms of movement. With Éder it's rinse repeat. Ronaldo started on the wing but after 10 minutes we passed from a 4-5-1 to a 4-4-2 with him and Postiga up front. Wasn´t the best of solutions. I mantain my stance. In the national team he should have free role all over the offensive end. Having him up front, limitates his ability to create and push the team forward. Most of his combinations and passing is lost because Postiga, Danny and Éder aren't Benzema, James or Isco. They are obviously inferior players with lower footballing IQ, who don't understand Ronaldo's footall.
It's the second victory in a row in the qualifying stages for our new manager (former Greece manager) Fernando Santos. Another scrappy win. This one was more deserved than the one against Denmark. We had plenty of chances but having Postiga or Éder (laughable how he missed the 2-0) obviously dents our aspirations. Our national team is at a crossroad now. We are trying to launch new players in the setup and calling older players. We are at the limbo of starting a renovation or just not risking it with calling up old and experienced players because we need the wins to make the team grow in confidence. I understand the call up of veteran Ricardo Carvalho (who had some issues with our previous manager) because anyone could see that our defence struggled alot in the Brazil world cup. Bruno Alves is already declining in terms of ability and hasn't been able of returning to his Euro2012 form. Another deserved veteran call up in Tiago because he was in super form at Atlético and Fernando Santos (with my agreement) isn't calling Raul Meireles or Miguel Veloso (this one more because he isn´t playing at Dinamo Kiev). He is trying to renew the team with William Carvalho, João Mário, André Gomes and Raphael Guerreiro (portuguese/french left back from Lorient). Speaking now of renovation Raphel Guerreiro was very good last night. He was already playing very well at Lorient and our U21 team. It's a relief having another good left back option because Coentrão is struggling physically and having too many injuries.
In terms of quality it wasn't a good performance (it was average) but it was good enough for the win. With Paulo Bento we were horrible and we couldn't win. I'm confident in Fernando Santos work but sooner or later he will have to start the team's renovation. Ricardo Carvalho is 36 and Tiago is 33. They are crucial players at the moment but it's a question of time until their physical form drops and we need to accelerate the process of integrating the new players. Maybe when the qualification is wrapped up.
Why remember the Euro84 Balu? So mean
I'm kidding mate. Platini was the sole reason we didn't go to the Euro84 final. We had a great team on that Euro and gave the french a good fight in the semi finals but lost at extra time after a very dodgy refereeing display to help the french who were severely struggling against us.The 0-0 between Germany and Portugal was one of the most boring games I've ever seen. Portugal improved after it, I give you that, but France deserved to win that semifinal. The way Platini drove the team forward despite twice conceding against the run of play until he scored the last minute winner in extra time was beautiful.Why remember the Euro84 Balu? So mean
So what? Some were very important. Like the one against Holland in the 2004 Semi Final or the goal he scored against the Czech in the 2012 quarter finals. Ronaldo's contribution for the national goes far beyond just goals. He's our driving force. I'm not going to get dragged into this kind of debate. This thread is messy
He's our best player by far. I can only wish we had more quality players to help him out. But with our limitations it's not possible. By the way this record you are mentioning is getting more attention outside rather than in our country.
Hey you can't have a Muller or Sérgio Conceição master class in every Germany vs Portugal game.
Well that's my portuguese bias i guess. But we played with our weapons. Strong defence and counter attack. It would be madness to play open football against that french team. Any of the team deserved the spot in the final i think. Platini was amazing i agree. People in Portugal are still very bitter towards the ref though.
Thanks! What about Moutinho, who I thought was your best player in the previous qualifying campaign (his 2nd leg v Sweden being the obvious stand-out performance)? He seems to have lost his form for Monaco this season, what about the NT?
Re: striker issues, personally I don't think Postiga is as bad as often said (IMO certainly better than Hugo Almeida and the likes) but I agree that he isn't the ideal profile to partner with Cristiano. What about that Cavaleiro kid at Depor, any potential there? Or Nélson Oliveira? He seems to have stagnated, if not just disappeared from the picture completely...
I didn't say it was the biggest achievement in the history of the sport, but to roll eyes at the feat is not really appropriate either.
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Absolutely - he was very good against Denmark.
I watched the match vs Armenia last night and I didn't think the he (or Portugal for that matter) did particularly well, although he popped ut with the winning goal - which after all is the most important thing!
I just saw this post and thought it was a very good write up. It'll be exciting to see how Portugal will be shaped by Santos and I was pretty impressed with Guerreiro too! Cracking young lad.
Moutinho has been struggling with form since he moved to Mónaco. He had a bad world cup (pretty much like all the team) and was abysmal against Albania. He´s slowly regaining form and was better against Denmark and Armenia. He has to rediscover his passing though. He's playing too safe.
Postiga isn't as bad but in 10 games he has about one or two reasonable ones. Not good enough for this level. Ivan Cavaleiro is still too raw and has to prove alot more before being a national team option. He's been alright at Depor but not good enough to warrant a spot in our team.
I already wrote about Nelson Oliveira. Since he was a top three player in the u20 WC we lost in the final against Brazil he has been declining. Another case of talent without mentality. Too fond of the Lisbon night and booze. Was decent in his Rennes loan but then he simply dissapeared and isn't an option at Benfica.
I honestly don't remember it being that bad. What decisions did the referee feck up? It's 30 years now since I've seen the game, so I could be completely wrong.
Basically the call for the first goal from free kick by Domergue, the missed penalty on Jordão in the second half, different disciplinary criteria between us and the french. They were also plenty of free kicks all over our box (for their experts) with slight contact from our defenders. Most of the calls for our behalf were waived on. It's the usual benefits to nations that host these competitions. We also had our fair share in the Euro2004. Don't get me wrong mate, i don't think we lost because of the ref but of the three teams on the pitch they were clearly the worst. I still prefer the teams from the Euro2000, EU2004 and WC 2006 but this team with Bento, Eurico, Chalana and Jordão was very good also. They got on the team of the tournament along with Forster and Voller from Germany (for the portuguese press)
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Well the 98 WC final, the whole 2000 Euro and the 2006 knock out games (until he decided to knock someone out himself). Zidane had more than just one very good game at international comps which elevated his status.
I didn't say he had just one good game, of course there's a lot more. Nothing of that elevates him past Platini though, who also had two great World Cups and an even better Euro performance than Zidane in 2000, as great as that was. And Platini had in my opinion the stronger and definitely way more consistent career at club level. Zidane turning an until then average to bad tournament from him into something extraordinary clearly defined his career in a way nothing but a World Cup final can.
You seem to have completely forgotten Just Fontaine....
Nope, he wasn't even the best French player of his generation. Uncontested was probably a bit too much though, you could make a case for Kopa. Anyway, that got a bit far off topic now.
oh what complete BS. hahahaha ffs at least I now know not to take you seriously.
I don't think you'll find anyone who puts Fontaine ahead of Kopa. France Football voted Kopa ahead of Fontaine in their list of best French players, Kopa finished 1st, 2nd (x2) and 3rd in the Ballon d'Or whereas Fontaine only finished 3rd once...it's only his goals record in one World Cup which justifies him being mentioned. That said he's obviously one of football's greatest unfulfilled talents. If it wasn't for that double leg break at just 26 years old who knows what he would have done.
I'll survive.
Funny, its not who they voted for in the UEFA Jubilee awards.
The FAs of each UEFA country chose those players as far as I know, so it wasn't France Football if I'm not mistaken? Also, does that mean Fritz Walter is the best German footballer or Dino Zoff the greatest Italian of all time?
You wouldn't question those awards based on the fact that Kopa was consistently voted ahead of Fontaine by journalists of the time? Even when Fontaine was at his absolute peak in '58 there wasn't really any debate about who the best French player was. Of the 16 voters, 14 chose Kopa as the best player in the world.
I think in terms of his peak, he is overrated. I think the fact that any Zidane discussion ends up with counting trophies, awards and big match performances just shows that maybe people push him above his abilities. Every other discussion goes down to abilities being compared, rather than pointing at one great game here and there and the trophy cabinet.
Zidane was brilliant in his peak at Juventus, but his longevity is just pushing him a lot higher up the ladder than his peak really deserves. I love that he was capable of having those odd monster performances even at the age of 34, and that they nearly always came when it mattered the most.
But Platini's peak year of '84-85 scoring 42 goals in one season if we include the NT performances as well was just at another level completely.
Incredible even in every attribute except for Platini being a monster of a goalscorer at the same time. Is Zidane "greater" than Platini? debatable. Was Zidane better? Definitely not.
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That's kind of harsh on Balu. His football knowledge is very good. And it's not just german football.
For what it's worth, I don't mind if he disagrees with me on the player. I doubt any of us has seen enough of those players in the 50's to form a sensible opinion. The massive overreaction regarding my post that Kopa is the best French player of his generation is very weird though, because it's more or less what all the contemporary reports say. Even the World Cup in '58 was a lot more about the Kopa - Didi midfield battle, than it was about the scoring records of the strikers. Sadly the story of Pele and the scoring record of Fontaine seem to be easier to recollect nowadays and pushed the fantastic performances of those two alltime great midfielders into the background. The fact that Kopa was the undisputed Ballon d'Or winner that year ahead of Helmut Rahn with Fontaine finishing only 3rd tells the same story.
What's also funny, I actually rate Fontaine higher than most and usually choose him ahead of Henry as the striker in my French all time XI, which isn't very common.
Anyway, that's enough derailing of this thread. If we want to discuss it further, someone should open a thread about French playmakers of the past decades, they seem to produce outstanding ones more than any other nation in Europe.
The results of this voting were published on France Football # 666 (16 December 1958).
There were 16 voters, from Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, England, France, Greece, Hungary, Italy, the Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Spain, Switzerland, West Germany and Yugoslavia.
Pos Player Country Club Total 1P 2P 3P 4P 5P Votes
===========================================================================================================
1. Raymond Kopa France Real Madrid 71 14 - - - 1 15
2. Helmut Rahn West Germany Rot-Weiss Essen 40 - 6 4 2 - 12
3. Just Fontaine France Stade de Reims 23 1 2 1 2 3 9
4. Kurt Hamrin Sweden Fiorentina 15 - 2 1 1 2 6
John Charles Wales Juventus 15 - 1 2 2 1 6
6. Billy Wright England Wolverhampton 9 - 1 1 - 2 4
7. Johnny Haynes England Fulham 7 - 1 1 - - 2
8. Nils Liedholm Sweden Milan AC 6 1 - - - 1 2
Horst Szymaniak West Germany Wuppertaler SV 6 - 1 - 1 - 2
Harry Gregg Northern Ireland Manchester United 6 - 1 - - 2 3
http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/europa-poy58.html
There were 16 voters, from Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, England, France, Greece, Hungary, Italy, the Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Spain, Switzerland, West Germany and Yugoslavia.
Pos Player Country Club Total 1P 2P 3P 4P 5P Votes
===========================================================================================================
1. Raymond Kopa France Real Madrid 71 14 - - - 1 15
2. Helmut Rahn West Germany Rot-Weiss Essen 40 - 6 4 2 - 12
3. Just Fontaine France Stade de Reims 23 1 2 1 2 3 9
4. Kurt Hamrin Sweden Fiorentina 15 - 2 1 1 2 6
John Charles Wales Juventus 15 - 1 2 2 1 6
6. Billy Wright England Wolverhampton 9 - 1 1 - 2 4
7. Johnny Haynes England Fulham 7 - 1 1 - - 2
8. Nils Liedholm Sweden Milan AC 6 1 - - - 1 2
Horst Szymaniak West Germany Wuppertaler SV 6 - 1 - 1 - 2
Harry Gregg Northern Ireland Manchester United 6 - 1 - - 2 3
http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/europa-poy58.html
What's also funny, I actually rate Fontaine higher than most and usually choose him ahead of Henry as the striker in my French all time XI, which isn't very common.
Anyway, that's enough derailing of this thread. If we want to discuss it further, someone should open a thread about French playmakers of the past decades, they seem to produce outstanding ones more than any other nation in Europe.
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Massively off topic. But folks should watch this video from 58 WC of battle between Didi and Kopa-
I'll never understand why anyone bothers to compare players from different era. If you put Ronaldo on that pitch he would destroy those players. They could try and kick him all they like but he's 4 inches taller and had 2 stone more muscles than the majority of them and would outstrip the lot of them for pace. That's not to say that it makes him better in the all time rankings than the best at that time, it was a different era and it's likely he would never become the monster he is today if grew up in that era.
Which then brings up the question, how would Pele have adjusted to our football? He might have been an average player in modern football while someone like Shearer might have been GOAT if he played in the 50s and 60s.
Classic Ronaldo.
Is the game tonight on telly?
It's on MUTV
Cheers, guess I'll be streaming it then. England can go on the TV.
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