If we did buy him back next summer, the question is not if we'll win the league, it should be how much we can win it by?
Cristiano Ronaldo
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The cannon fodder argument doesn't just apply to La Liga. Diego Costa is on track for his best ever season. Torres did the same when he moved to Liverpool. Aguero to City. That it's easier to score for a good team than a bad one is obvious, just as it's obvious that the rich clubs are able to capture and keep the top talent.
Looking back in time, Pele's Santos were a powerhouse throughout his career. Of course there's an interaction. The player improves the team. The team supports the player.
Using the "but he's playing cannon fodder" argument is no more valid in Ronaldo's case, than ignoring the fact that football is always 11-a-side, and that no one is ever a "one-man-team" over a sustained period. Ronaldo's done it in two leagues, and he's done it across multiple seasons and with two clubs in the CL - that's impressive.
I'll leave the "where in the pantheon" thing until he retires.
Looking back in time, Pele's Santos were a powerhouse throughout his career. Of course there's an interaction. The player improves the team. The team supports the player.
Using the "but he's playing cannon fodder" argument is no more valid in Ronaldo's case, than ignoring the fact that football is always 11-a-side, and that no one is ever a "one-man-team" over a sustained period. Ronaldo's done it in two leagues, and he's done it across multiple seasons and with two clubs in the CL - that's impressive.
I'll leave the "where in the pantheon" thing until he retires.
Good post.
Some people are so indoctrinated by the English media that they still believe that English defence is still the litmus test for a player's ability even when countless other players have made the successful transition from the La Liga to the PL.
Xavi makes more unsuccessful passes than most players over a season using the same weird logic.
Messi makes more dribbles per game at a more efficient rate than Cristiano and you imply that's a bad thing?
Agree with @jojojo by the way.
You actually do wonder why since they most likely watch England play on a regular basis.
Put Ronaldo in any team over the world that plays to his strengths and he will deliver. He's simply the best player in the world right now
Thanks for the stats, mate! It seems I was wrong about take-ons, but according to some stats, albeit a little old, Messi lost the ball more than any other player in La Liga. I'm not turning this into another Ronaldo vs Messi discussion, only pointing out that they are different players that play different ways and that Ronaldo's play has shifted but become more effective. That may be a decision down to him and/or his coaches. He shows from time to time that he can still dribble if he wants to, but ultimately it slows the play down, and RM are about speed in attack.
Excellent post!
Its not that funny. We all had the same criticism of Suarez last year. Scoring isn't the be all and end all of being a good footballer. Ronaldo scores a lot of goals but you can't deny he really pads his stats against the poorest of teams. its not really a criticism, just an observation.
It is unusual that people still say this when you take into account that he scores lots of goals in the CL also and has won the top scorer award in it three times and is only two goals behind Raul in much less appearances (and nobody ever doubted Raul's big-game or Champions league pedigree) and has also just set a record for the most goals scored in the competition in a single season. Ronaldo has 11 goals in 14 games in the Quarter-finals, 9 goals in 14 games in the semi-finals and 2 goals in three games when it comes to the final. No matter the opponent he will either score, make the difference, be decisive and either win the match for his team or at least give his team a great chance of winning even when the team is up against it and he has been doing it for a large number of years now. His team does not always have to be in control of the game or on the front foot for him to be dangerous and that is certainly a great asset to have. It is humorous to see people bring up arguments that might have had some weight a few years ago, but certainly not now.
What are you saying, he should just get the odd goal against the weaker teams & leave it at that? It's got nothing to do with padding, if the defense leaves him an opening, he's going to gobble it up. What else do you expect him to do?
Good players score a lot of goals against poor teams, what a surprise.
Not I'm just saying we shouldn't look at his goal rate this season as an indication of him being the best player ever.
Not taking so much about liga but the quality of madrid's opponents so far. Have they played many, or any, games against difficult opponents?
What team would you classify as a difficult opponent?
Yeh right, not even Messi could win Utd the league in their current state, let alone Ronaldo. They're in deep shit if they don't sort it out within the next couple transfer windows.
In there current state.. Christ, 4th in the league carrying an average of 10 injured players at any one time. Imagine if Chelski had 10 injuries, one of them being Costa, how different they would look then...
What a load of horseshit.
I thought Ronaldo also scored goals in El Classico?
The people trying to claim Messi had a good world cup in this thread need to give it a rest, we all watched the matches and your stats won't change the minds of those who have been made up, this is the Cristiano Ronaldo thread where we want to discuss Cristiano Ronaldo not that Argentinian pillock.
It's easy for a Chelsea fan to say that but that's because they don't have anything to worry about until all the other teams in the league become decent again.
The quality of the premier league is overrated by us English fans, we claim it's the best in the world, it might be the best to watch but in terms of quality? Not a chance if Ronaldo came back he'd struggle to score against Sunderland, Burnley or Leicester, we're as shit at defending here as in Spain, just Madrid and Barca are so much better than any team over here is the reason they flatten teams weekly, no difference in quality between the rest of the teams in the league really.
'kinell.
Are you still living in last season? ridiculous statement.
I'd love to end your winning run, and I think we will.
The crazy is that tactically the general defending isn't even impressive.
He's the best player I've ever seen. Just didn't do it for long enough. Even when he was at an average at milan side he scared me and when he scored that goal early on, I thought feck here we go...
Oh yes.. We do have a knack of ending unbeaten runs!
Cristiano Ronaldo is a great talent, but is a player who needs a lot of space to be influential in a match. That for me is his weakness when compared to Messi or the other greats.
Messi also has a wider vision of the game, unlike Ronaldo he can be a playmaker and still be good.
Technical ability in reduced spaces and vision, those are qualities you can't put on in stats.
Messi also has a wider vision of the game, unlike Ronaldo he can be a playmaker and still be good.
Technical ability in reduced spaces and vision, those are qualities you can't put on in stats.
Nobody is looking at this season's goal rate to judge his class; instead we are looking at the last five years and he has been terrific in all of them - that's what puts him up as world class. At his very best, Ronaldinho is the greatest player I've watched followed by fat-Ronaldo - both had higher ceilings than both Ronaldo and Messi, but ultimately the game is about more than that - it's about delivering the goods season after season, and in that respect Ronaldo is tough to beat.
Have you not seen his headed goals in packed penalty areas? He's done more of those than "Messi or the other greats".
Well, but then we are talking about his ability in set pieces, some defenders can also be good at that. I'm talking about controlling the ball and finding space in different zones. Ronaldo needs those space to be created for him, Messi, while controlling the ball, can create those spaces by his own.
I'm not saying Ronaldo is a bad player, on the contrary, but in the little aspects that put the really, top top top, Maradona-like top, players aside, Messi wins it.
Ronaldo creates the space for himself and his team by his running off the ball, which is better than Maradona or Messi. He's just a different type of player from them, the best counter attacking player I've seen, whose club career has been with two counter attacking teams.
Messi also creates spaces while being off the ball, the thing is, he can also do it with the ball. And I agree with your last phrase, Ronaldo works better in teams that know how to counter attack, that's because he founds difficulties when the match asks him to grab the ball and create spaces for his own, you could also say he can break those matches with a header on set pieces or a long range shot, but in this case we are talking about the ability of having control of the ball.
Having control of the ball in situations with little space, that's for me the trademark of the top top top players, on top of that Messi does it (at least did it for a while) while being ridiculously fast, which puts him on another level.
So if you are incredibly great at everything else (not saying Ronaldo is, just hypothetical player here) but only very good at having control of the ball in situations with little space, you cannot be considered one of the best?
He had little space in a crowded penalty area, was he in control of the situation? Or is he unable to create space for himself?
Also, there are a few examples in this video where he has limited space and must improvise.
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No. Just that it was funny that someone brought up Real Madrid's earlier sides as some sort of slant on Messi's clasico record when Ronado scored most of his against a back 4 with one natural defender, who even then wasn't very good at defending
In my opinion that what puts the best aside. Also the vision, Messi has a more clear vision of the game, a bigger understanding, that's why he's slowly becoming a playmaker.
But then you are bringing other type of situation, that's a cross and a sublime first touch, he's very good at it.
I'm talking about controlling the ball in velocity and find space for yourself in a football pitch, that's probably the most difficult aspect of football. The whole game is based on opening spaces as a team so a player can score, then the very top do it by themselves.
Firstly I do find it quite ridiculous you are suggesting a player can be excellent at everything in football yet only very good at operating in tight spaces and not be considered in the argument for the very best.
Football is much more than just operating in tight spaces and a player should be judged on his effectiveness.
And also it seems by operating in tight spaces you mean dribbling.
I would say his dribbling skills are fine and he doesn't encounter difficulty operating in tight spaces.
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