Honestly anyone watching him during the competition would tell you there were alot better performers. Stats do mean something but in this scenario its clear they mean little.
Cristiano Ronaldo
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Honestly anyone watching him during the competition would tell you there were alot better performers. Stats do mean something but in this scenario its clear they mean little.
Creating chances is a pretty critical stat. I'd like to see people name these "a lot" better performers. And I wonder how influential they were and how much responsibility they had.
Maybe it's just me but I thought Robben and James were better in the World Cup.
I though Costa's record was good, but 13 goals in 6 games is just silly. The guys just something else.
I thought Messi looked horribly lethargic, unfit and poor by his own standards at the WC. He didn't even get to a jog to press the opposition half the time. That he got the Golden Ball was a joke.
3 hat-tricks in how many days?
Nah I think a lot of people would agree with you. You can add a few Germans to the list (Neuer, Lahm, Müller...).
So just two players then? That means he definitely was one of the stars of the World Cup right?
His record looks silly in comparison though. And even though Ronaldo scored a few goals against Barcelona recently I recall him being invisible for most parts of the matches and then he ended up scoring a penalty (not like Messi didn't score penalties against Madrid but he was much more involved in the games).
Now this is an exaggeration. Messi wasn't at his very best but he pretty much carried a very poor Argentina team most of the games. I mean which other offensive players really showed up? Di Maria, Aguero and Higuain were all below par. I don't think he was the best player of the tournament (Robben and Neuer for me) but he was one of the top 5 in my opinion. I also don't think he played a bad WC final.
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It's very impressive that Ronaldo can keep up scoring this many though. I expected a little drop in performances this season but so far he's looked just as great as last season.
He didn't deserve to get that award being so quiet in the semi's and the final.
But then the same folk harping on about that will be the ones telling us Ronaldo deserves everything under the sun for last year's CL campaign despite not playing a definitive role in the semi finals or final.
But then the same folk harping on about that will be the ones telling us Ronaldo deserves everything under the sun for last year's CL campaign despite not playing a definitive role in the semi finals or final.
His record looks silly in comparison though. And even though Ronaldo scored a few goals against Barcelona recently I recall him being invisible for most parts of the matches and then he ended up scoring a penalty (not like Messi didn't score penalties against Madrid but he was much more involved in the games).
Now this is an exaggeration. Messi wasn't at his very best but he pretty much carried a very poor Argentina team most of the games. I mean which other offensive players really showed up? Di Maria, Aguero and Higuain were all below par. I don't think he was the best player of the tournament (Robben and Neuer for me) but he was one of the top 5 in my opinion. I also don't think he played a bad WC final.
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It's very impressive that Ronaldo can keep up scoring this many though. I expected a little drop in performances this season but so far he's looked just as great as last season.
Ronaldo really started punishing Barcelona when Pep started to think he could get away with playing a midfielder as a centre back. To be fair that's why a number of teams punished Barcelona, not just Madrid and Ronaldo. Before that they were fairly solid at the back and Ronaldo struggled.
I think this stat is a little misleading as Messi got a fair few goals iirc against the Madrid side managed by Schuster (just full of dutch players playing out of position) and then Juande Ramos and Pellegrini (when Real were noway near as good as they are now, losing to Lyon repeatedly etc).
Messi wasn't very good, nor did he shine.
He was decent at times and scored some great goals. Sadly his reputation meant that every little thing transformed his performances into amazing MOTM displays, much like the way RVP's tournament was perceived after that goal against Spain.
Ronaldo was shit though, no doubts about that. Even being half fit (if that) and playing for a truly awful team, he still contrived to miss several sitters against Ghana when scoring them probably would've put Portugal through eventually.
Rubbish. He was far superior to Rvp in every way possible. Also, "some great goals"? What did the mighty James do other than score some great goals? Messi created more chances than him after all. Yet he's hyped as a World Cup star.
His record looks silly in comparison though. And even though Ronaldo scored a few goals against Barcelona recently I recall him being invisible for most parts of the matches and then he ended up scoring a penalty (not like Messi didn't score penalties against Madrid but he was much more involved in the games).
Now this is an exaggeration. Messi wasn't at his very best but he pretty much carried a very poor Argentina team most of the games. I mean which other offensive players really showed up? Di Maria, Aguero and Higuain were all below par. I don't think he was the best player of the tournament (Robben and Neuer for me) but he was one of the top 5 in my opinion. I also don't think he played a bad WC final.
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It's very impressive that Ronaldo can keep up scoring this many though. I expected a little drop in performances this season but so far he's looked just as great as last season.
Wait so his stats arent as impressive as messi he hasnt been good overall? He has won quite a few crucial matches against barca. Last year he was particularly good but the year before he won 2 games against them. He has generally been good. Just wasn't as good last year. as I said he has the record for most consecutive games scoring in el classico.
Are you serious? Of course James was far better than Messi. I don't think you need anyone to explain that to you. Messi shouldn't have won the award, it was pretty obvious. Neymar had a better world cup ffs.
I think it's unfair to say that about James, I thought he was at the heart of most of what Colombia did, a very exciting and surprising Colombia at that. Furthermore, there was quite a bit of pressure on his shoulders after Falcao was ruled out, yet even at a very young age, he looked completely unfazed and did excellently.
Of course the pressure on Messi's shoulders was of another magnitude, but then again a player of his stature and experience would be expecting that. I agree that he wasn't crap, but I do think, like someone else said, that a lot of his performance were over hyped due to it fitting the narrative of 'Messi doing it at a WC' which is basically the only thing left for him to accomplish. I think he was superior to RvP, definitely (I was saying earlier I thought RvP had a pretty poor WC), but I really don't think he shone, at all.
neymar ? What?!It seems the narrative of "messi was shit" because of the amount of people demanding to score 5 goals against everyone and beat them on his own despite not looking completely fit was just as strong.
He was clearly not at his best and didn't look fully fit to me, but it's clear as day that he was one of the best players at the World Cup. Scored most of his team's goals, scored winners, set up more chances than anyone else and played under huge pressure. For anyone else, that would make for being one of its stars. If ronaldo has done it, the caf would have gone nuts for sure. James does it and he's a star.
Slightly off topic but has the friendly between Argentina and Portugal at OT in November actually been confirmed yet?
Neymar was brilliant in the World Cup. Regardless of how shit Brazil were as a whole, you can't deny he was great. Him and maybe Oscar were the only ones who deserve any recognition during the whole tournament. If they didn't have Neymar it would have been a whole lot worse.
Not saying he was player of the tournament, but I don't think it's laughable that he'd be considered.
He scored goals. That's pretty much the only thing he did most of the time. He did very well considering his age and pressure but he offered little in terms of generally play, unlike messi who as I siad earlier, created the most chances.
Yep, that's about correct, IMO. Thought Robben should have won it myself (feck I feel dirty supporting him
) but Messi winning it is not as "proposterous" and scandalous as some Ronaldo fans are making it sound.Individually, he literally dragged his team to the QF's. Lots of rewriting of history in here.
Anyway, it's the Ronaldo thread. Don't want to derail.
Yes he was more consistent performance wise throughout than messi.
Obviously he was superior to RVP, I was just suggesting the perception of his tournament was the same.
James was consistently involved in an attacking Colombian team that basically became peoples underdog choice (well, them or Costa Rica), he wasn't expected to do much by the masses because they barely knew him. Hence he became a massive star.
Messi was quiet by his own illustrious standards. He was better than the few months at Barça before the tournament but he still picked his moments to do something rather than play well all game. He was okay in the first game against Bosnia but they did a good job marking him until he scored that great goal. He then proceeded to light up games with a singular moment of his undoubted genius but do feck all otherwise for the rest of each match until it got to the final whereby he did the square root of feck all.
Messi wasn't even the best player in the Argentina team, Mascherano was, by absolutely miles. Even he looked embarrassed to be getting the best player of the tournament award. The whole world knew it was an absolute farce.
That's true, but Barcelona were had some average years back then too, and those stats include games when he was a teenager (though he still did score a hat trick then) while Cristiano's are all in his prime.
Harsh on the Pellegrini side too, they broke Real Madrid's highest ever points total at the time.
Though I don't think the stat is hugely telling.
How is that funny?
Henry was a more intelligent player, he was quicker, stronger, more technically gifted and alot more creative. I don't think you'll never see Ronaldo carry a team like Henry did with an inexperienced Arsenal side in the 2006 Champions League, and don't you dare try and say Ronaldo did in Real's most recent win, cause there were better performers and players who offered a greater importance in the critical moments.
Ronaldo's turned into a deadlier finisher, less of the finesse Henry had but a bigger danger from other areas, both aerially and outside the box. Better off the ball too. He'll statpad by getting into the right positions rather than producing a moment of brilliance that gets everyone out their seats. In fact he's probably developed into more a striker than Henry ever was, the number of times he takes up Benzema's position you'd think Benzema was the winger for Real Madrid.
When people mention Ronaldo's greatness it's always his goal record (a phenomenal one at that I might add). You compare that to say Messi and people compare him to Maradona for a reason. Not just his scoring exploits, but the all round package - dribbling, creativity, passing, moments of genius on the pitch. That's what makes a truely great player, not just scoring a shit load of goals, and more fool you if you think that's the sign of a player who deserves to be lauded as arguably the greatest of all time.
Thought Ronaldo showed much more than goalscoring yesterday. He is "creative" and he pass and set up chances for others, despite the myths peddled to the contrary.
Yep ronaldo is just a goal scorer.
These days he pretty much is, and no that doesn't mean I think he's some sort of average joe who just scores 50 tap ins a season. He's a top player, but it is his scoring exploits and the danger he poses around the area thatmakes him unique. Despite the recent injuries he's had he's also quite the physical specimen, not many can get the same sort of leap he can, and he's always running full steam into the 90th minute.
Compare him to other players around Europe though (bar Messi) - he's not a better dribbler than Ribery, Hazard or Robben, he's not the best passer in the final third like Mata, Silva or Fabregas, he's not got the vision to be a creative number 10 (abeit underrated in this aspect IMO), he's not as technically gifted as someone like Iniesta (first touch, close control), and not got the greatest decision making either (takes way too many shots from silly angles when others are in better positions, poor decision making or just selfish, your call).
He's devastating in a counter attacking team, suits him to the ground, but he aint quite as amazing as some would have you believe when you look at Ronaldo the player rather than Ronaldo the goalscorer.
I've not watched a whole lot of Madrid this season but from the little I saw it looks like Ronaldo's better than ever. I'm not sure he'll do it but for me it would be a truly astonishing feat if he managed to end his career with as many Ballon D'ors as Messi. It'd be perhaps the greatest achievement I've ever witnessed in football. Messi for me at his peak was a level above and had so much more to his game because the combination of being a supreme goalscorer and a top class playmaker is something very, very few players manage, and from a subjective point of view that's the pinnacle for me, but if Ronaldo managed to pull back level on Ballon D'ors it would tell you all you need to know about Ronaldo. He's just a relentless competitor, and it's entirely plausible that he could edge ahead of Messi in terms of longevity with the way things are going.
Unreal.
Ronaldo does all of this:
13 goals in last 6 league games.
17 goals in 11 club games this season.
3rd hat trick in 4 La Liga games.
11 goals in last 4 league games games.
22nd hat trick in the league.
Joint most hat tricks in La Liga history.
26th hat trick for Real Madrid.
269 goals in 257 games for Real Madrid.
Cristiano Ronaldo has now been involved in 240 La Liga goals (190 scored, 50 assisted) in 171 appearances.
And this is dismissed as just "statpadding"...
This. I like you have never jumped on the Ronaldo is GOAT category, but his form so far is astonishing.. forget the goals, he just looks beastly even when running with the ball. I'm even liking his passing and his general demeanor - he looks very relaxed which considering how gutted he must have been about the world cup, remarkable.
Haters will continue to hate, while Ronaldo will continue doing what he does best - deciding games with his goals.
That's a laugh. The majority of Ronaldo's clasico goals came against a defence that was practically non existent at times. One that' seen Barca fail to hit the same heights in the CL since 2011.
As for Mancan having a go at Amol for bringing up chances created as a stat, I'm getting the distinct impression stats are only relevant as long as they benefit Ronaldo.
Ronaldo has played the lion's share of his club football in counter-attacking sides, which is different from the possession-based strategy of Messi's team. He's not going to be doing what Messi (or Zidane or Maradona) did because he has a different role. I have not seen any other player who is like him in style. Ronaldo I is the closest because he was similarly electric and devastating, though not for as long. And now Bale is imitating him but his finishing is nowhere near as good.
Wow. When you put it like that...
Agreed. In fact I think this season's form is the best evidence anyone can use to show how from the beginning of 2014 until the World Cup he was covering up poor performances with goals. He was playing through injuries at times in his defence, but the difference is staggering.
Wait. So are you telling me both guys were scoring more when their team was better? Holy shit...
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