Defenders are faster and stronger today and some players were great because the game was slow and we cannot forget the names of Garrincha, Zagallo, Tostao, Jairzinho, Rivelino and Carlos Alberto around Pele, Maradona had a few good players around him but not the same quality of the Brazilians.
Cristiano Ronaldo
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Defenders are faster and stronger today and some players were great because the game was slow and we cannot forget the names of Garrincha, Zagallo, Tostao, Jairzinho, Rivelino and Carlos Alberto around Pele, Maradona had a few good players around him but not the same quality of the Brazilians.
have to disagree , pele never proved himself at the highest level of football
I take Garrincha over Pele
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De Gea
Rafael Jones Rojo Shaw
Herrera Pogba
Di Maria
Reus Falcao Ronaldo
Will never happen, but would be pretty cool
True but they can barely touch players nowadays. I know pele had great players around him but he still stood out among them and there was not much more he could have done. Even so, I still think pele had much more to his game and was a much more complete player than Ronaldo. He was able to make things happen himself much more than Ronaldo and was less reliant on service. Of course as a playmaker he relied on movement from his teammates but what playmaker does not?
You can't compare players cross generation - the game is totally different.
All you can do is look at players in their era and see what they achieved and Ronaldo is comparable to anyone.
Nonsense to say he's not "top level". People love to knock players playing now and try and be a bit controversial by saying he's not as good as some player from years ago who they've probably hardly seen.
The fact of the matter is that Ronaldo's goal scoring record and achievements at the very top level compare with the best players to play the game at club level. One slight criticism is that there has been no big tournament performance but you can argue he's never had the side around him to do it.
The world cup is a pretty high level. Whatever you thought of the Brazilian league at the time, Santos beat European teams (Milan, benfica) when they played them in competition. To say pele never proved himself at the highest level is ridiculous.
How can you possibly know that?
There were quick and slow players just like today. My Mum could probably run faster than Terry and Mertesacker, yet they have Champions League and World Cup winners medals between them.
The game was played at a slower pace, but it doesn't mean the players were all slow. It's just an adaptation of style, probably as the coaches and players became more professional about diet and fitness and the playing/training surfaces got better and they could therefore play at a higher pace for more sustained periods.
Great players would be great in any era. It's a bit of a minefield trying to compare players of bygone years with their modern counterparts, so we should just accept that they're all great players and judge them against their peers, rather than other generations.
The World Cup. The Level that Messi and Ronaldo are yet to "prove themselves" at. Messi's player of the tournament award was laughable.
That is what I am doing and no he is not. He isn't even the best player of his time.
Its not nonsense to say he is not in the very top tier with pele, maradona, messi, di Stefano, cruyff etc.
I have seen these players as well as read lots of books, articles, interviews etc about them. Even di Stefano who it is hard to find videos of I have seen (and I have seen lots of them both on tv and the internet). There would be very few videos of him that I have not seen. And even today I still try to find more videos and information about him.
Yes, goalscoring. And that is about it (not to say that it isn't much). Not actual all-round performances from him that compare with other players that I mentioned. He is much more reliant on service and is not able to create as much by himself as the others I mentioned either. Messis goalscoring record is also better (while Ronaldo is a more complete goalscorer ie heading, left foot etc) and messi is better than him at pretty much everything else also.
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When i look at that formation is it only me that thinks Van Gaal could possibly spurn the chance of bringing Ronnie back? Don't get me wrong nothing would please me more but, as Arsenal did this season with Fabregas, could LVG do it because of the attacking talent we already have, there's no Mata, Rooney or RVP in that side. I hope i'm wrong as Ronaldo coming back to United would fill me with so much joy i'd probably just die.
If Ronnie does come back to us what number would he get?
probably throw a strop and take the 7 from di maria, or 17.
Di Maria move back to his usual 22, and Cristiano gets 7
Why?
I would say it's ridiculous.
Ronaldo is one of the games best ever players. Players now are generally much better than players from years ago.
Anyone who is going to tell you that for example George Best was better than Ronaldo is off their scone as far as I'm concerned. The game has moved on.
There's no doubt in my mind Messi is better than any other player that's ever lived.
There's more to it than just 'this guy's better than that guy'. Players nowadays enjoy greater technology, better fitness regimes, far better pitches and far more protection from referee's. Ronaldo's probably better than Best but then you've got to ask yourself how good guys like Best would've been in today's improved game.
Best is an interesting one for me because in today's game with his off field problems, would he have been utilised as much? I can't see the managers today standing for it. And how good would Gazza have been if he didn't have his off-field problems? It's all if's and buts really isn't it.
People like you love to be contrary and have a controversial opinion because its different from the norm.
The fact is, the game has changed time and again over the years so I fail to see how any real comparison can be made. Different pitches, balls, fitness regimes, boots etc - it's chalk and cheese.
The bottom line is that he wins football matches - just like all the other "greats" do. He's done it for United and Real Madrid, in tough leagues and in Europe - just like all the top players have done.
You can have your controversial "aren't I different" opinion, seemingly based on watching old videos of players on the Internet in different eras. But I can think if numerous times I've seem people involved in football on TV talking about Ronaldo and what he's achieved and to a man they consider him one of the greats.
He has it all - pace, power, strength, work ethic and the ability to win a match on his own time and again. That's top class for me.
That's soooo 2009, "If I said what I thought in public I'd be jailed" is the new catchphrase.
Are you talking about the times he played for United only? Or including what he’s archived at Real Madrid? As for Edwards I can only go on what I’ve read from ex-players/fans, watched on YouTube or what my dad and uncle said about him in length when I was growing up.
My Dad always said that he was the most complete players he’s ever seen, no player has come close since, he could attack, defend, in fact he could have played in any outfield position and been successful. Furthermore, he said that for a player of his age to be the best player in what he says was Uniteds greatest team is something that will never be matched. No matter what position he played he would be the best player going forward and the best when defending, he was the one player that everyone talked about and feared. He was the best player on the pitch no matter what position he played. He says even to this day, that if he could have any ex or present United player to play in the team forever he would pick Edwards. (Personally I'd pick Best)
Sir Matt Busby said that Edwards had no flaws in his game, that he tried on many occasions to find them but had to give up in the end, he also said he was the greatest player of his age that he had ever seen.
You are basing your judgement on what you can see now and not looking into what football was like 50 years ago, and of course, if you look at it like that there is only going to be one outcome, therefore it’s pointless, so many fans nowadays forget that Football existed before the Premiership or Champions League. I’m not surprised by that, slightly disappointed though as United greats are now slowly being forgotten about.
You are correct in that the game has moved on, actually, moved on is the wrong way to put it, in truth it’s a completely different game, however you are 100% wrong to suggest that players from yesteryear were not as good as modern day players. Even without all the technology, modern day referring, money, players back then could play a bit.
By the time Edwards died at the young age of 21, he had played for United 177 times (a time when there was no substitutions), winning two League Championships, three FA Youth Cups, an FA Cup runners-up medal and 18 England caps. Not only was he the youngest player to appear in the First Division at just 16 years he was also the youngest England international of the 20th century, aged 18 years and 183 days, a record which stood for nearly 43 years before Michael Owen beat it. Not bad eh?
Bollox, He's one of the greatest ever goal scorers. There have been many with better individual qualities than him, in this decade alone even. Robben's probably a better player at his absoloute best, just a shame he's an injury prone tart.
Making accusations like that to people who have seen these players play that have the cheek to have a different opinion to your own and when you probably have not even seen them yourself
. Those opinions I expressed are not "different from the norm". Lots of people do not consider him to be as good as messi, let alone the very best ever. I have watched lots of full matches for a lot of those players, not just highlights like you seem to be implying. I would say I have much more to base my opinions on than you. Ronaldo not as good as messi/maradona/pele an opinion that is different to the norm 
. Did it ever occur in your little mind that some people have actually watched these players play and have then, dare I say, formed an opinion that is different to your own. Or is that to hard for you to comprehend and whenever you see an opinion that is different to your own you assume that they are as clueless as you are and that they must be trying to be different or controversial when they are just giving an opinion that they have formed from what they have seen with their own eyes. But of course mate, I am just trying to be different .
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Must be joking. Ronaldo is two footed, Robben definitely isn't so. Ronaldo a beast in the air, Robben definitely not. Ronaldo is a better free and penalty taker. Only aspect they might come close would be dribbling ability but surely Ronaldos ability to use either leg swings it in his favour.
The issue with all these arguments is there is no specific definition of 'greatness'. Greatness means something different to everyone and coupled with that you cannot compare these players against each other. In football 50 years ago there was a much smaller pool of professional players and professional players were not as fit. That is not in contention. It stands to reason then that a 'freak player' (and by that I mean one of those players that are unplayable like in this case Edwards or Ronaldo) would have stood out even more. But that does not detract from the fact that they are a club great. I do believe that the current players are stronger/faster/fitter than those who played 50 years ago. They also play in a much larger pool of professionals who all stick to strict diet and fitness regimes. Therefore it would be fair to say that they were better players if you are talking about physical attributes. For me, I can probably remember back to the late 80's and Ronaldo and Cantona are the 2 players who I have seen regularly that are on another level to those around them. Ronaldo more so. The other issue here is that they do not play in the same position so again, very difficult to compare Ronaldo and Edwards directly.
He only really got stuck into the pints after the team started to change for the worse around him. He was basically carrying United for a couple of seasons and just didn't see the same quality of players replacing his old teammates. He lost the passion for the game and grew disillusioned. Must have really hurt seeing as it was the club he loved and that's when the booze started to kick in. Prior to that he was, in my eyes anyway, the greatest player the sport has ever seen.
I don't think LVG will even give a 2nd thought to pushing Rooney or Mata out the door if we can sign Ronaldo.
As supposed to 06-09 when the top Premier League sides regularly made the CL semis?
In fact, if it wasn't for Ovebro, it'd have been a repeat final in 2009.
Nope. For me Ronaldo's phenomenal off the ball, brilliant in the air and a great goalscorer (despite the poor shots/goal ratio). You never see him score goals through individual brilliance as he's that knack of being in the right place at the right time. Di Maria and Ozil both got a good 20 assists each through him alone under Mourinho.
Robben's a considerably better dribbler of the ball, and a bigger threat to full backs, but he's a crock, and he has been his entire career. Under Van Gaal he improved, but under Heynckes he started to become alot more of a team player. At the World Cup just gone by you saw just how dangerous he can be.
I agree, that’s why I hate statements such as ‘To even suggest that Duncan Edwards was a better United player than Ronaldo is downright ridiculous’ or ‘Anyone who is going to tell you that for example George Best was better than Ronaldo is off their scone’ That we’ve had in this discussion, it just stinks the modern day theory that yesteryear footballers were shit in comparison to todays.
Of course modern players are going to be fitter, faster and stronger, that much is obvious, we all know the reasons why, however those who say that they are a better footballer because of it are wrong, you can only judge a player in the era that he played in.
Very nice post Getsme.
Don't forget the shi%e pitches, bricks for balls and rubbish boots. Plus you were allowed to tackle back then. His stats for a man of that age and how highly his peers rated him is just unbelievable. And you're right: he sounded like the complete footballer. Could throw him anywhere on the pitch and he'd do the business.... not even the business... control and win the game for you. Such a pity what happened.
He can stay away then, 7 is Angel's!!!
Because no one really knows anyway unless you're +70 years old.
Plus, there simply must be some revisionism in this Edwards hype. I mean he was 21 when he died.
I'm not saying he didn't have the potential to be a Pele or Cristiano Ronaldo but to claim he was better than the latter, a player who has won it all more than once on club level and gotten the Ballon d'Or twice? It makes no sense.
In some ways its moved on. In other ways it hasnt and in fact is a shadow of what it was supposed to be. Its all relative.
Best transcended football. Changed it even. The first football superstar. His presence on a pitch was magical in a way thats difficult to understand now. And what gets forgotten is that alongside his mesmeric skills he had a physical courage that would put Ronaldo to shame - find me a clip of George rolling around faking pain.
Georgie's legacy gets tainted because of his flaws but he wouldn't have been the player he was without them. He paved the way for all who came after him including Ronaldo.
Time has been dimming George's true impact and standing in the game for a while now but, yep, things move on. Just not always for the better.
So to you, Ronaldo is Uniteds greatest player because you cant be bothered to read up on United Legends?Plus, we are also talking about the best player to play for United, not the best player to play the game.
No, I can't make any kind of meaningful comparison based on reading up on a player, therefore it's senseless to begin with those kinds of comparisons.
Plus, we are also talking about the best player to play for United, not the best player to play the game.
It's hard to say if footballers from the past are as good as they are today. Imo if you put a 25 year old George Best, Pele, Maradonna, Eusebo in a competitive match between 2 top European sides then I think they would struggle to be frank.
Having said that if them players listed were born in 1989 and had been brought up with lighter boots, lighter footballs, better pitches, more advanced medical health then who is to say that they wouldn't have been on the same level as Ronaldo and Messi, if not better? Rules have also varied to a degree with current referees penalising alot of physical challenges whereas in the 60s it was part of defending. It's like saying who would win, a prime Ali vs a prime Tyson.
I believe personally that footballers are getting better and better every year due to the advances in so many crucial aspects of the sport. The money nowadays is ridiculous which means the stakes are higher for every stakeholder at a club. A single goal is a massive massive bonus for managers and it seems to be all about goals when looking at Ronaldo and Messi, hence why they are viewed as the 2 best.
I believe Messi is the greatest footballer ever but I wouldn't discard how good historic legends of the game would have turnes out to be had they been born later.
Having said that if them players listed were born in 1989 and had been brought up with lighter boots, lighter footballs, better pitches, more advanced medical health then who is to say that they wouldn't have been on the same level as Ronaldo and Messi, if not better? Rules have also varied to a degree with current referees penalising alot of physical challenges whereas in the 60s it was part of defending. It's like saying who would win, a prime Ali vs a prime Tyson.
I believe personally that footballers are getting better and better every year due to the advances in so many crucial aspects of the sport. The money nowadays is ridiculous which means the stakes are higher for every stakeholder at a club. A single goal is a massive massive bonus for managers and it seems to be all about goals when looking at Ronaldo and Messi, hence why they are viewed as the 2 best.
I believe Messi is the greatest footballer ever but I wouldn't discard how good historic legends of the game would have turnes out to be had they been born later.
I think Ronaldo has ended up as the better player but I don't think he's a naturally talented as Best. Best pissed it all away but Ronaldo has stayed incredibly focussed, I don't know if I have ever seen a player as driven as him. It's amazing. If Best had half of the dedication that Ronaldo has there would be no comparison.
Edit - As predator points out above me, it is very difficult to compare players across eras so this is all just my opinion of course.
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