Cristiano Ronaldo

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JaffyJoe said:
Messi is more clinical. He is technically and tactically better than Ronaldo. Ronaldo cannot dribble past players like Messi nor regulate tight spaces like him. Also the comment in regards to creativity and passing :lol:. Those are not Ronaldo's strong points. Messi vision/creativity is immense as is his passing. Ronaldo is capable of playing good passes but it's not a part of his game he uses as much as he could.

Ronaldo is goal scoring and physical dominance on another level to anything I have seen in football.

Messi is something else.
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Basically what you said multiplied by 1000.
 
Stack said:
its funny but all the debate centers around achievements and how well their clubs do etc. For me the measurement comes largely from their playing abilities and Ronaldo has got a broader set of abilities.
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Stack said:
Ronaldo is two footed, is better in the air and can dribble brilliantly but in a different style to Messi. Ronaldo has faster feet and can pass as well as Messi. Sorry have to disagree on the passing thing and the creativity thing.
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You're an idiot.
 
Football fans have short memories so when Messi was out injured for a while and off the radar Ronaldo has suddenly usurped him as best player in the world.

That's just how it works really. If Messi has a great world cup then everything will go back to normal.
 
I thought all comparison debate are supposed to go in the "Ronaldo v Messi" thread?
 
JaffyJoe said:
How is ability abstract? (genuine question)

I have watched both for the vast majority of their careers. I know what Ronaldo can and can't do and I know what Messi can and can't do. Being able to play to the best of their ability is dependent on many factors. Form is dependent on many factors.

Ronaldo's goals yesterday did not show me anything new about him that I did not already know. Like I said fair enough if you feel he is the better player, but if all it takes is each player going in and out of form to decide who the BETTER footballer is to you that to me makes no sense. I just find that odd.

Ronado better form? yes 100% Is he a better footballer than Messi for me, NO. Simple.
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Sometimes I do have confusion on this class vs form thing. Just to take things out of extreme, when a player have 5 seasons of better form, is he better footballer than someone who only has 1 season of better form, but who has also shown better class during this 1 year?
 
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Raul Madrid said:
When it comes to goalscoring I would agree. When it comes to dribbling, passing and creativity I think messi is better.
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How about strength, heading, long range shoot, freekicks and determination etc. I know you may classify some of them into "goalscoring", but they are different attributes to be fair, and they are among the sets of skills/ability which make Ronaldo such an unstoppable beast in football.
 
An Irish Red said:
Football fans have short memories so when Messi was out injured for a while and off the radar Ronaldo has suddenly usurped him as best player in the world.

That's just how it works really. If Messi has a great world cup then everything will go back to normal.
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Right but Ronaldo has also break Messi goalscoring record in CL and lead his team in CL final, where Messi has failed to do so after back from injury.

To put things into perspective, Messi has played 38 games for Barca this season, scoring 40 goals (1.05 goal per game) and made 10 assists (0.26 assist per game), whereas Ronaldo has played 44 games for Real this season, scoring 49 goals (1.1 goal per game) and made 11 assists (0.25 assist per game). In fact they still have similar average stats, which is amazing. Ronaldo have more goals and assists, he has played few games more though.
 
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Ronaldo's passing is very underrated. Messi is without question a better passer, especially when it comes to creating chances. But if you ask people on this forum, many will tell you that Rooney is a better at passing than Ronaldo, which is just wrong IMO. Rooney is better than Ronaldo when it comes long range passing, that's it. Otherwise Ronaldo is better at both creative and simple passing.
 
crappycraperson said:
Ronaldo's passing is very underrated. Messi is without question a better passer, especially when it comes to creating chances. But if you ask people on this forum, many will tell you that Rooney is a better at passing than Ronaldo, which is just wrong IMO. Rooney is better than Ronaldo when it comes long range passing, that's it. Otherwise Ronaldo is better at both creative and simple passing.
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The problem is, he rarely uses it. In most of his games, he's way too focused on scoring and forgets to get involved in the build-up and use his abilities to help his team. His wonderful pass to Coentrao for the assist in the 1-0 home win against Bayern was so much more important for his team than his two meaningless goals in the return leg. I highly doubt he knows it though.
 
Ronaldo and Messi have very different "special" attributes. They are both good at different things.

I love the high-horse football fans who think that their idea of what are the most important attributes is factual. Why can we rave about Messi nimbly beating 3 men, but not about Ronaldo jumping with his ankles as high as Evras head to score a goal? Both are extraordinary.

Just don't understand why people feel the need to hammer home their opinion or act as if one is miles better than the other. They are both superb players, who you see is better is personal opinion.
 
Balu said:
The problem is, he rarely uses it. In most of his games, he's way too focused on scoring and forgets to get involved in the build-up and use his abilities to help his team. His wonderful pass to Coentrao for the assist in the 1-0 home win against Bayern was so much more important for his team than his two meaningless goals in the return leg. I highly doubt he knows it though.
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And yet what you're forgetting is that it's not all about being involved in link up play. At the end of the day someone has to be at the end of it to score a goal. Which helps the team too, does it not?

All I'm saying is it I had Ronaldo on my team I would much rather he was the man at the end of a pass, not the one making it.
 
rpitroda said:
And yet what you're forgetting is that it's not all about being involved in link up play. At the end of the day someone has to be at the end of it to score a goal. Which helps the team too, does it not?

All I'm saying is it I had Ronaldo on my team I would much rather he was the man at the end of a pass, not the one making it.
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Depends on the game. If his supply is cut off by the opponent and he's strolling around useless upfront because he doesn't get the ball at all, I'd say it makes a lot of sense to drop deeper and help out. Of course, if his team is already in control of the game, he should do what he does best and that is scoring goals.

The point is, in these semi finals his passing was more important than his goals and it's the first time Real actually made it to the final since he moved there. Maybe he should use it more often?
 
Balu said:
Depends on the game. If his supply is cut off by the opponent and he's strolling around useless upfront because he doesn't get the ball at all, I'd say it makes a lot of sense to drop deeper and help out. Of course, if his team is already in control of the game, he should do what he does best and that is scoring goals.

The point is, in these semi finals his passing was more important than his goals and it's the first time Real actually made it to the final since he moved there. Maybe he should use it more often?
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I think it's incredibly selective to say because he dropped deep Real won. Sorry Balu, don't see how you can isolate something like that.

If I'm being honest, I don't really think either of us are in a position to stipulate how Ronaldo should play. Real Madrid's play is based on direct fast tempo attacking. It makes little sense for Ronaldo to be deep when Real's attacking play is all about fast transition up the pitch and getting their fast players one on one with defenders.
 
rpitroda said:
I think it's incredibly selective to say because he dropped deep Real won. Sorry Balu, don't see how you can isolate something like that.

If I'm being honest, I don't really think either of us are in a position to stipulate how Ronaldo should play. Real Madrid's play is based on direct fast tempo attacking.
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I wasn't isolating it. Crappy was praising Ronaldo's passing ability and I agreed with him that it's underrated, and added that it was crucial to help Real win the tie against Bayern and said he should use it more often. I don't really understand what's wrong with that comment.

And none of us fans is really in a position to stipulate tactics, roles of players in all the top top teams in Europe, yet we comment on it all the time. It's fun.
 
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rpitroda said:
And yet what you're forgetting is that it's not all about being involved in link up play. At the end of the day someone has to be at the end of it to score a goal. Which helps the team too, does it not?

All I'm saying is it I had Ronaldo on my team I would much rather he was the man at the end of a pass, not the one making it.
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And yet that is exactly the reason why Cristiano has so far never really been brought into the conversation of the greatest players of all-time (let's say top-10 kind of range); the same reason that so few of those very best are "pure" strikers or wingers -- why can't he do both?
 
RedRonaldo said:
Sometimes I do have confusion on this class vs form thing. Just to take things out of extreme, when a player have 5 seasons of better form, is he better footballer than someone who only has 1 season of better form, but who has also shown better class during this 1 year?
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Well you know what a player can do, for the most part and what they can't do. The position they are put in to use their ability is important. A good manager can have inferior players playing at a high level (which at the end of the day is what matters). Ronaldo hasn't shown us anything new, he is doing what he always does (not to down play it) But I know what Ronaldo brings to the table. His ability has not changed or improved. His form has.

But for the discussion of who the better footballer is I have no doubt that Messi is the better footballer.He has more ability than Ronaldo, he has already shown me that, he still shows me that this season. Where he plays demands much more of him him tactically and in the build up. Ronaldo couldn't do what Messi does for Barcelona, his game isn't as complete. Playing in the counter attacking system is more straightforward. Demands less on the tactical side.

A player can have more ability and be outperformed by a player with less (that is down to the manager and most likely the character of the player mentally)

I hope that clears it up.
 
crappycraperson said:
Ronaldo or not, I have no idea why any neutral would root for Real. Athletico epitomize a beautiful underdog story and deserve it all
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Not everyone goes for the underdog. Madrid are a huge club and I see no issue with a neutral wanting to them to win.

I'll be firmly in the Atletico corner though. It's amazing what they're on the brink of achieving.
 
JaffyJoe said:
Well you know what a player can do, for the most part and what they can't do. The position they are put in to use their ability is important. A good manager can have inferior players playing at a high level (which at the end of the day is what matters). Ronaldo hasn't shown us anything new, he is doing what he always does (not to down play it) But I know what Ronaldo brings to the table. His ability has not changed or improved. His form has.

But for the discussion of who the better footballer is I have no doubt that Messi is the better footballer.He has more ability than Ronaldo, he has already shown me that, he still shows me that this season. Where he plays demands much more of him him tactically and in the build up. Ronaldo couldn't do what Messi does for Barcelona, his game isn't as complete. Playing in the counter attacking system is more straightforward. Demands less on the tactical side.

A player can have more ability and be outperformed by a player with less (that is down to the manager and most likely the character of the player mentally)

I hope that clears it up.
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I agree. Messi is the better footballer. Messi's brain is better than ronaldos. He makes better decisions on the pitch and shows more footballing guile.

I am of the opinion that ronaldo is more dependent on his physical attributes for his ability (tall, fast, strong) than messi is for his (small, acceleration). Messi uses more brain power in his performance. I still think iniestas goal against chelsea in stamford bridge is one of the best goals ive seen. Another player would have latched onto essiens mishit clearance and tried to shoot. Messi looked up and passed to iniesta and they hammered us in the final.

The amount of times i have seen messi beat two players and pass to a player in a better position is unbelievable. Ronaldo beats two players and either tries to beat a third or shoots more often than not. Passing is not on his mind when he is close to goal.
 
JaffyJoe said:
Well you know what a player can do, for the most part and what they can't do. The position they are put in to use their ability is important. A good manager can have inferior players playing at a high level (which at the end of the day is what matters). Ronaldo hasn't shown us anything new, he is doing what he always does (not to down play it) But I know what Ronaldo brings to the table. His ability has not changed or improved. His form has.

But for the discussion of who the better footballer is I have no doubt that Messi is the better footballer.He has more ability than Ronaldo, he has already shown me that, he still shows me that this season. Where he plays demands much more of him him tactically and in the build up. Ronaldo couldn't do what Messi does for Barcelona, his game isn't as complete. Playing in the counter attacking system is more straightforward. Demands less on the tactical side.

A player can have more ability and be outperformed by a player with less (that is down to the manager and most likely the character of the player mentally)

I hope that clears it up.
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I somewhat agree with you. Doing what he does, Messi is superior to Ronaldo. His close control is better and he's more nimble and agile in close quarters. Messi is better for Barcelona than Ronaldo would be, simple as.

However, turn the tables and you will get the exact same arguments for Ronaldo. He's much faster than Messi, which gives him a clear advantage over him for the counter attacking play of Real Madrid; he can beat players for pace for fun, he is more prolific in front of goal imo, although stats will tell you they are about the same. Ronaldo has better long range shooting and thus offers something only Alvez can do at Barca - Messi doesn't have a lot of power in his shots.

People talk about Messi's technique being better, but I think it's just different. The ball sticks closer to Messi's feet when he dribbles at speed, however, he actually loses it more than Ronaldo does. Ronaldo sprints at a higher speed and he runs in more direct lines than Messi does; therefore, for him to let the ball run a bit farther actually makes sense, especially since he has an even higher gear that he can use to fool defenders into making tackles and thus fooling defenders - I've seen that time and time again when they mistime his pace.

Also, there's no denying Ronaldo's heading abilities. For a team like Real Madrid that places quite a bit of emphasis on crosses, Ronaldo would be the superior player.

Therefore, all things considered, I think it's very hard, and a mistake, to say that Messi is more complete than Ronaldo, and the other way around too. They are both very complete players, but very different. Both contribute to their respective teams equally, but neither would do as well for the other team. As for speculation, I actually think Ronaldo would do better at Barca than Messi would for Real, but that's just speculation. Overall, I would say they are equally good or thereabouts, but for the last year or so, Ronaldo has been in better form and thus is currently the best player.
 
northbynorthwest said:
I agree. Messi is the better footballer. Messi's brain is better than ronaldos. He makes better decisions on the pitch and shows more footballing guile.

I am of the opinion that ronaldo is more dependent on his physical attributes for his ability (tall, fast, strong) than messi is for his (small, acceleration). Messi uses more brain power in his performance. I still think iniestas goal against chelsea in stamford bridge is one of the best goals ive seen. Another player would have latched onto essiens mishit clearance and tried to shoot. Messi looked up and passed to iniesta and they hammered us in the final.

The amount of times i have seen messi beat two players and pass to a player in a better position is unbelievable. Ronaldo beats two players and either tries to beat a third or shoots more often than not. Passing is not on his mind when he is close to goal.
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I feel like since he has gotten to Spain he has relied more on his physical ability than his technical ability. Can't really argue with his results, amazing footballer.

When you watch Ronaldo he does a lot of wild things during a match, unnecessary shooting, abandoning the wing to hang around for a goal. Picks the wrong pass. He is goal obsessed I feel, like he believes scoring the most will make him the best player ever.

Also how much do you think that has to do with the culture Messi was raised in ?(Barca's way)
 
JaffyJoe said:
I feel like since he has gotten to Spain he has relied more on his physical ability than his technical ability. Can't really argue with his results, amazing footballer.

When you watch Ronaldo he does a lot of wild things during a match, unnecessary shooting, abandoning the wing to hang around for a goal. Picks the wrong pass. He is goal obsessed I feel, like he believes scoring the most will make him the best player ever.

Also how much do you think that has to do with the culture Messi was raised in ?(Barca's way)
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Yea i totally agree. He does unnecessary things in a match. Step overs, trying to beat players in a crowded area and like you say shooting for impossible situations.

He is a goal scoring machine, but messi is a better footballer.

That barcelona ideology has had a big effect on his ability in my opinion. They teach you to make the right decision and to only make a pass if it will make it. You look at neymar trying to beat man after man after man in every match. Another little thing i see barcelona players often do is turn back. Rather than looking to go forward all the time, they will turn back and retain the ball. Nearly every footballer i see tries to go forward. Its a small skill but a big one.

I always enjoy watching messi. he beats a couple of players and passes. Ronaldo frustrates me. There may be a team mate in loads of space and he will shoot. Of course when he pulls it off like he did against porto for us, it looks amazing. But i always remember him in his final game for us against Barca and he was shooting from every where. A bit annoying.

Whats your thoughts on neymar? I am not convinced by him, although he is young and can improve, but he tries to take on players too much.
 
Rossa said:
I somewhat agree with you. Doing what he does, Messi is superior to Ronaldo. His close control is better and he's more nimble and agile in close quarters. Messi is better for Barcelona than Ronaldo would be, simple as.

However, turn the tables and you will get the exact same arguments for Ronaldo. He's much faster than Messi, which gives him a clear advantage over him for the counter attacking play of Real Madrid; he can beat players for pace for fun, he is more prolific in front of goal imo, although stats will tell you they are about the same. Ronaldo has better long range shooting and thus offers something only Alvez can do at Barca - Messi doesn't have a lot of power in his shots.

People talk about Messi's technique being better, but I think it's just different. The ball sticks closer to Messi's feet when he dribbles at speed, however, he actually loses it more than Ronaldo does. Ronaldo sprints at a higher speed and he runs in more direct lines than Messi does; therefore, for him to let the ball run a bit farther actually makes sense, especially since he has an even higher gear that he can use to fool defenders into making tackles and thus fooling defenders - I've seen that time and time again when they mistime his pace.

Also, there's no denying Ronaldo's heading abilities. For a team like Real Madrid that places quite a bit of emphasis on crosses, Ronaldo would be the superior player.

Therefore, all things considered, I think it's very hard, and a mistake, to say that Messi is more complete than Ronaldo, and the other way around too. They are both very complete players, but very different. Both contribute to their respective teams equally, but neither would do as well for the other team. As for speculation, I actually think Ronaldo would do better at Barca than Messi would for Real, but that's just speculation. Overall, I would say they are equally good or thereabouts, but for the last year or so, Ronaldo has been in better form and thus is currently the best player.
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You make some fair points and think we see the game differently.

Technique to me and this will sound long winded.

I look at the three main components: receiving, carrying and striking. Receiving is touch in every sense. First mainly with every part of their body what I look at is the ability to adapt to very difficult situations, when you recieve a poor pass (like Silva :drool:). Striking is every way you hit the ball. Passing, crossing and shooting. The array of passing and crossing techniques the player has in their arsenal and how well each is executed and than consistency at which it is executed. After that I look at carrying which is dribbling which can be broken down, at ace, not at pace, small spaces etc.

Looking at all of that Messi is technically superior to Ronaldo. Messi loses the ball more than Ronaldo because he operates in tighter spaces than Ronaldo. Bale who has had an ok season 7/10 has 20 goals and 15 assists. Messi would thrive at Real. Their attackers have more space to work with. At the start of the season he was scoring for fun in Tata's more counter attacking base system.

Ronaldo has a wider variety of finishing but Messi puts away a higher %. I'd go with Messi as the superior finisher. I don't see Ronaldo as an all round player at all. I see him as a guy who does what he does to a ridiculously high level and has staggering consistency. But he isn't a complete player.
 
JaffyJoe said:
You make some fair points and think we see the game differently.

Technique to me and this will sound long winded.

I look at the three main components: receiving, carrying and striking. Receiving is touch in every sense. First mainly with every part of their body what I look at is the ability to adapt to very difficult situations, when you recieve a poor pass (like Silva :drool:). Striking is every way you hit the ball. Passing, crossing and shooting. The array of passing and crossing techniques the player has in their arsenal and how well each is executed and than consistency at which it is executed. After that I look at carrying which is dribbling which can be broken down, at ace, not at pace, small spaces etc.

Looking at all of that Messi is technically superior to Ronaldo. Messi loses the ball more than Ronaldo because he operates in tighter spaces than Ronaldo. Bale who has had an ok season 7/10 has 20 goals and 15 assists. Messi would thrive at Real. Their attackers have more space to work with. At the start of the season he was scoring for fun in Tata's more counter attacking base system.

Ronaldo has a wider variety of finishing but Messi puts away a higher %. I'd go with Messi as the superior finisher. I don't see Ronaldo as an all round player at all. I see him as a guy who does what he does to a ridiculously high level and has staggering consistency. But he isn't a complete player.
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I don't disagree with what you're saying. But why do you have to be a complete player to be considered an all time great? And what is "complete" defined as? A player who can do more and different things? Or a player who has the complete skill set to do what he is meant to or asked to?

You're right in everything you're saying, but I just don't buy this complete player business. That's why clubs think long and hard about who they sign. Because you can get world class players who don't fit a system. Don't think that should take away from them. I could take Messi and ask him to play in a Stoke setup of hoofball under Pulis and he might struggle.

I just think we often get wound up about a player who can do millions of things. I'd rather be a 10/10 at something than a 8/10 at lots of things.

Doesn't necessarily relate to Messi as he is 10/10 in a lot of things. But then so does Ronaldo.

I just find it that a lot of people seem to have an agenda against Ronaldo and they use the argument he can't do x, y, and z. It's just always funny they talk about all the things Messi can't do that Ronaldo can. Or they write them off as irrelevant as it doesn't fit their cliche of what the best player in the world should be, style wise.

Which goes back to what I've been saying all along. Objectively, it's difficult to come to a factual and valid conclusion about who is better. Ultimately what each of us think is personal opinion.
 
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Skorenzy said:
And yet that is exactly the reason why Cristiano has so far never really been brought into the conversation of the greatest players of all-time (let's say top-10 kind of range); the same reason that so few of those very best are "pure" strikers or wingers -- why can't he do both?
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You're talking nonsense if you think Ronaldo hasn't been brought into the top 10 players of all time discussion.

You're a classic case of exactly what I've just pointed out. People have a disjointed view on what they think the best footballer should be style wise. Objectively, Ronaldo is very much in that discussion. But it's the distortion of personal opinion which makes people think otherwise.

I'll say it again - what is a complete player? Ronaldo isn't complete if you're saying one is someone whom can do many many things. But Ronaldo is the most complete winger/inside forward I have ever seen in a counter attacking set up. Why should that be held against him?
 
rpitroda said:
I don't disagree with what you're saying. But why do you have to be a complete player to be considered an all time great?
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I have said he is the second best I have watched (neither catches the imagination like Ronaldinho though). He is an all time great for me, you can't argue with that at all. He has delivered for so long now. This is purely a discussion about him v Messi (which is always promise myself not to get dragged into). He has a set of gifts/abilities that are so unique. He is as an amazing player.

The fact he is such an athlete I feel like people consider it somewhat unfair and so he get's underrated. You can't score like him and affect games like he does without being an all-time great.
 
JaffyJoe said:
I have said he is the second best I have watched (neither catches the imagination like Ronaldinho though). He is an all time great for me, you can't argue with that at all. He has delivered for so long now. This is purely a discussion about him v Messi (which is always promise myself not to get dragged into). He has a set of gifts/abilities that are so unique. He is as an amazing player.

The fact he is such an athlete I feel like people consider it somewhat unfair and so he get's underrated. You can't score like him and affect games like he does without being an all-time great.
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Indeed - and to be fair to you you are balanced in what you say. It's just those who come and think it's factual Messi is better is what annoys me.

I - like you - try not to get involved but couldn't help myself :lol: I just prefer to admire both as players and I'm happy I get to watch them.

On a side note, your comment about Ronaldinho is spot on. For whatever reason watching Messi and Ronaldo just doesn't quite match watching Ronaldinho and Zidane. Not saying they are better, just saying there was something about those two that really connected with me in a way Messi or Ronaldo have yet to do.
 
rpitroda said:
Indeed - and to be fair to you you are balanced in what you say. It's just those who come and think it's factual Messi is better is what annoys me.

I - like you - try not to get involved but couldn't help myself :lol: I just prefer to admire both as players and I'm happy I get to watch them.

On a side note, your comment about Ronaldinho is spot on. For whatever reason watching Messi and Ronaldo just doesn't quite match watching Ronaldinho and Zidane. Not saying they are better, just saying there was something about those two that really connected with me in a way Messi or Ronaldo have yet to do.
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Ronaldinho was just something else. The most unique player ever. Just the way he played, the tricks, the skill, the vision, the pace and the power. His time on top was like a flash in the pan he gave us 2-3 years of his peak. I used to watch that Barca team every weekend. Ronaldonho, Eto'o and Giuly With Deco behind and a young Xavi. Then Iniesta started coming through (another of my favourites)

Zidane used to glide, his style was so aesthetically pleasing. A complete number 10. He had the skill, the dribbling, the big goals. How do you get that good at football??

Ronaldo and Messi are so consistent, it takes out the fun I feel. They do it week in week out for the most part. They've been doing it for 7 years now. It's crazy.
 
JaffyJoe said:
Ronaldinho was just something else. The most unique player ever. Just the way he played, the tricks, the skill, the vision, the pace and the power. His time on top was like a flash in the pan he gave us 2-3 years of his peak. I used to watch that Barca team every weekend. Ronaldonho, Eto'o and Giuly With Deco behind and a young Xavi. Then Iniesta started coming through (another of my favourites)

Zidane used to glide, his style was so aesthetically pleasing. A complete number 10. He had the skill, the dribbling, the big goals. How do you get that good at football??

Ronaldo and Messi are so consistent, it takes out the fun I feel. They do it week in week out for the most part. They've been doing it for 7 years now. It's crazy.
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Aye - Messi and Ronaldo produce magical moments but the best word to describe them is effective. They do have the skill, the technical ability and immense quality. But they just lack that X factor. They don't have that "goofy" smile symbolising they are playing the game they love. They don't have the xfactor to perform all the little training ground movements.

Best way to describe it for me is those players were brilliantly raw - they expressed their fantastic ability in a natural way. They enjoyed it.
 
NoLogo said:
Totally going to be on Atleticos side mainly because I want to see Ronnie cry when they lose the final. :devil:
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I wanna see all of them cry! After their obsession with bloody Decima it would be hilarious if "the other club in Madrid" takes it. Plus it would be one of ther best football stories ever if Atletico win it (especially if it is part of the double).
 
JaffyJoe said:
You make some fair points and think we see the game differently.

Technique to me and this will sound long winded.

I look at the three main components: receiving, carrying and striking. Receiving is touch in every sense. First mainly with every part of their body what I look at is the ability to adapt to very difficult situations, when you recieve a poor pass (like Silva :drool:). Striking is every way you hit the ball. Passing, crossing and shooting. The array of passing and crossing techniques the player has in their arsenal and how well each is executed and than consistency at which it is executed. After that I look at carrying which is dribbling which can be broken down, at ace, not at pace, small spaces etc.

Looking at all of that Messi is technically superior to Ronaldo. Messi loses the ball more than Ronaldo because he operates in tighter spaces than Ronaldo. Bale who has had an ok season 7/10 has 20 goals and 15 assists. Messi would thrive at Real. Their attackers have more space to work with. At the start of the season he was scoring for fun in Tata's more counter attacking base system.

Ronaldo has a wider variety of finishing but Messi puts away a higher %. I'd go with Messi as the superior finisher. I don't see Ronaldo as an all round player at all. I see him as a guy who does what he does to a ridiculously high level and has staggering consistency. But he isn't a complete player.
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I can't say that you don't make fair points either, and I think it makes for an interesting discussion. As you say, we do see the game a bit differently.

I don't disagree with your definitions of technique, but I think that's just one side to it. Giggs' running with the ball at his younger days is the most sublime technique at high speeds I've seen; I don't think Ronaldo has that same agility at pace that Giggs had. Look at videos of Giggs and you'll notice that he too let the ball go a fair way from his feet, but always in a controlled way, which allowed him to run faster and still control it, which is what Ronaldo also does. I think Ronaldo's technique at high pace is sublime and perfect for its use. He can go past players in tight spaces too, but unlike Messi who somehow manages to walk past them if he wants to, Ronaldo uses a twist and a turn and then accelerates past his defender.

I'm not sure that I agree on your assessment on Messi thriving at RM. You pointed out that he is excellent in tight spaces, but RM doesn't operate like that; instead they counter attack in the wide open spaces where players like Ronaldo, Bale and Di Maria use their flat out pace to simply outrun defenses. Additionally, they have brilliant movement up front from Benzema. Messi can't hold the ball like Benzema, he can't sprint like the other three, and thus he wouldn't really fit into the system all that well, even though he's an utterly brilliant player.

I think Barcelona would profic from having Ronaldo more; substituting Pedro or Sanchez with Ronaldo to offer a more direct outlet, which they are at times sorely lacking, would improve them a lot.

Discussing what and who makes a complete footballer is a bit difficult. Even though both Messi and Ronaldo are forwards, they play differently. Ronaldo is a winger/forward who relies on his physical attributes much more than Messi does, which may prolong Messi's career over that of Ronaldo - hard to tell (Ronaldo will maintain his pace better than Giggs I think). Ronaldo is much more complete physically; he has more pace, better jumping and heading, better stamina, but although he is stronger, Messi is probably harder to shrug off the ball due to his ridiculous balance. Ronaldo can also shoot better, so for his position, which starts a long way out of the box in a fast counter attacking team, he is more complete than Messi. Whereas Messi is more complete than Ronaldo operating in the tight spaces in and around the 18 yard box in a team that relies on short passing to open up spaces.
 
JaffyJoe said:
Ronaldinho was just something else. The most unique player ever. Just the way he played, the tricks, the skill, the vision, the pace and the power. His time on top was like a flash in the pan he gave us 2-3 years of his peak. I used to watch that Barca team every weekend. Ronaldonho, Eto'o and Giuly With Deco behind and a young Xavi. Then Iniesta started coming through (another of my favourites)

Zidane used to glide, his style was so aesthetically pleasing. A complete number 10. He had the skill, the dribbling, the big goals. How do you get that good at football??

Ronaldo and Messi are so consistent, it takes out the fun I feel. They do it week in week out for the most part. They've been doing it for 7 years now. It's crazy.
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This I agree 110% with (I too like Chuck Norris can agree 110%)

Nobody could entertain like Ronaldinho - such pace, trickery and showmanship, which were effective to top it off, was just amazing. Zidane was the most elegant player I have seen - brilliant. He wasn't quite as slow as some would make out either. I think both those players, especially Ronaldinho, along with fat-Ronaldo, arguably had a higher top ceiling than Ronaldo and Messi, but the consistency of Messi and Ronaldo, as you point out, is mind boggling.
 
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