I suppose that's the point, it's not really an all-time comparison given how different both the competition and the club game is nowadays. Granted though both hit the net more regularly than the likes of Raul and Shevchenko did.
Cristiano Ronaldo
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The year Messi scored 14 CL goals - He did it in 11 games AND scored 5 penalties
This year Ronaldo has scored 16 CL goals - He did it in 10 games AND scored only 1 penalty.
Problem? Best player in the world mate.
This year Ronaldo has scored 16 CL goals - He did it in 10 games AND scored only 1 penalty.
Problem? Best player in the world mate.
Indeed statistics are not comparable across all generations and eras. There are of course hundreds and thousands of factors which need to be considered when using any statistic, within or not within generations.
Certainly when you're comparing players like Ronaldo, Messi, Maradona, Zidane, Pele, Eusebio, Di Stefano just to name a few, statistics often mean nothing and a lot of personal opinion comes into it as they are all truly great and iconic footballers.
Despite that, the goal scoring records combined with what I've seen with my own eyes confirm to me they deserve to be in that very top bracket of player. They have to right to be in that discussion.
And certainly, in my life time, they are the most prolific (though that may not be the right word) goal scorers. Some of their records are insane and truly a level above any player since the 90s.
That is probably because Ronaldo hasn't won with Real Madrid what Messi has won with Barca. His trophy count for the past 5 years hasn't been plenty for all the scoring records he has broken. Messi has already won everything there is to be won at club level multiple times.
Its impossibe to say who the best player ever is. As a matter of fact its hard to be 100% right about anything in football. If you got ferguson, mourinho, wenger, ancelloti, guardiola, klopp, del bosque, capello etc and all the best managers in the world into one room to talk about football they all would agree on some things but disagree on a lot of things. And the thing is none would be wrong in their opinions because they were all successful. There are many different aspects to football and you can never really be 100% sure about a lot of things.
I'm not convinced that is why but it's a potential valid point. To me Ronaldo, in everything he has ever done, whether training or anything, is to become the best he can be. He is the ultimate professional. He works his balls off. Why? Because he is obviously talented but Messi's talent clearly is natural and outshines Ronaldo. That's not slight or dig on either player - just what in my opinion makes them very different. IMO Ronaldo will always be determined to excel because he has the ego to want to be the best at everything and the will power to get there. Messi is just naturally brilliant. I'm sure he is driven and determined too but they aren't what has made him the footballer he is, like Ronaldo.
Indeed, agreed. But certainly you can make a generally accepted view on whether someone has a right to be on that table. Just like you've selected those managers there, I think Ronaldo and Messi have both done enough to be at a table if the best players ever were present.
Spot on. I do think Messi may have shown sign of complacency at club level (after winning 2 CL and 4 Ballon D'or in past few years, anyone would have felt the same), while Ronaldo is busy doing the catch up work. I expect Ronaldo will keep firing himself up until winning every in sight for couple of times more (more than Messi is a must), and who knows how long will it last (probably 3-5 years or more).
I agree with your points. Ronaldo when he first started out was playing second fiddle to Rooney, and look how it turned out today.
If you ask me, Messi is, likewise, a highly driven and determined individual as well, his immense natural talent tends to overshadow this aspect of him. Until this season, it felt like every season they were trying outdo each other. Messi has reached greater heights but it is looking like Ronaldo will have the final say in the long run.
Either way, their rivalry will probably go down as football's greatest.
I agree. You don't become the player Messi is on talent alone. I'm not trying to take anything away from him. I'm sure he works hard too and is extremely driven. But naturally, I'll always think Ronaldo has invested more and worked harder, just because of where he was and where he is now in terms of performance. In the same way Ronaldo is obviously talented too - again you can't become that great without being naturally talented. But in the same way, in my books he will not be the same as Messi in that factor.
On a side note, it's been fantastic to watch them compete. But maybe because I'm not in Spain, to me the battles of Vieira and Keane were always more spectacular. I would love to know how a real or Barca fan views the Messi Ronaldo rivalry? To me the Keane Vieira rivalry was synonymous with the great rivalry we had with Arsenal at the time. Don't always feel I get that with Messi Ronaldo. Probably because I'm not in Spain, don't support either team, and they don't really compete directly with each other on the pitch
You may be right as you may be wrong, we'll never truly know but I don't believe there would much change in Ronaldo whether he'd have won more trophies or not. Mentally, he's a different beast.
I'd argue the year Messi scored 14 he was playing quite a bit better than what Ronaldo has in this seasons competition. Didn't he get late goals in routs against Schalke? the 4th and 5th goals against Bayern. Galatasaaray too. The draw has been quite kind to Madrid.
Naturally when you think of the 2010/2011 season you think of the crucial goals Messi scored at the Bernabeu to put Madrid out, and in the final to put Barca back in front.
Not looking for a big argument or anything, just saying I think stats can be slightly misleading. For example in Messi's 72 goal season, he wasn't as good as he was in his 53 goal season imo.
I agree. You don't become the player Messi is on talent alone. I'm not trying to take anything away from him. I'm sure he works hard too and is extremely driven. But naturally, I'll always think Ronaldo has invested more and worked harder, just because of where he was and where he is now in terms of performance. In the same way Ronaldo is obviously talented too - again you can't become that great without being naturally talented. But in the same way, in my books he will not be the same as Messi in that factor.
On a side note, it's been fantastic to watch them compete. But maybe because I'm not in Spain, to me the battles of Vieira and Keane were always more spectacular. I would love to know how a real or Barca fan views the Messi Ronaldo rivalry? To me the Keane Vieira rivalry was synonymous with the great rivalry we had with Arsenal at the time. Don't always feel I get that with Messi Ronaldo. Probably because I'm not in Spain, don't support either team, and they don't really compete directly with each other on the pitch
it's the best sporting rivalry I've seen.
A couple of seasons ago they'd almost match others goals every week. It was like 2 boxers trading blows for a full season, incredible stuff.
What about the 5 Messi goals against Leverkusen? Don´t they fit your criteria?
Horrible logic here. 5 goals against Leverkusen and 5 against the other crap that was in his group BATE Borisov/Plzen. He failed to score vs Chelsea that year. Ronaldo on the other hand has scored vs Juventus, Galatasaray, Schalke, Dortmund and Bayern. It's like you've seeked out an argument against Ronaldo just for the sake of it
I don't get how the BEST player in the world can change depending on who is scoring more. There ae more factors than just ability that go into a players form. If you are saying Ronaldo is the best because he has scored more goals than Messi, will Messi then be the best if he scores more goals next year. If you saying you prefer Ronaldo because he has more ability (fair enough).
Ability> form. For that reason Messi will always be the better footballer for me, though Ronaldo is putting together perhaps the finest season of his career.
Ability> form. For that reason Messi will always be the better footballer for me, though Ronaldo is putting together perhaps the finest season of his career.
True. The logic which people come up to 'prove' Messi is better than Ronaldo is laughable.
Ability is a bit of an abstract concept in all fairness so we can only really judge footballers on their form and at the moment Ronaldo's is better so he is considered the better footballer.
How is ability abstract? (genuine question)
I have watched both for the vast majority of their careers. I know what Ronaldo can and can't do and I know what Messi can and can't do. Being able to play to the best of their ability is dependent on many factors. Form is dependent on many factors.
Ronaldo's goals yesterday did not show me anything new about him that I did not already know. Like I said fair enough if you feel he is the better player, but if all it takes is each player going in and out of form to decide who the BETTER footballer is to you that to me makes no sense. I just find that odd.
Ronado better form? yes 100% Is he a better footballer than Messi for me, NO. Simple.
I agree with this.
Beg your pardon. 12 goal season, not 14.
ps Im surprised people didnt notice my mistake since I did mention his semi final goals vs Madrid.
Still nice to see the rage pour out at the very suggestion someone else might have played a better CL than campaign!
Still nice to see the rage pour out at the very suggestion someone else might have played a better CL than campaign!
It wasn´t in my behalf. Just a mere observation, in what appeared to be a very intelectually disonest appreciation (before noticing your mistake). Not that i take those Messi vs Ronaldo comparison threads seriously. I don´t even care or post on those. I appreciate and like to see both play and don´t play down their merits. I tend not to get dragged into those debates.
It's not something that I think you can directly measure but more that you infer it from a players form. Everyone would have agreed that Fernando Torres had the ability of a World Class striker in 2008 but within a year, or so, he went into a slump he's never recovered from. Ability to me is what you think a player can do but that's always going to be subjective as well as by definition abstract, it's just an idea, whereas form is the real truth of what a player can and has done.
Torres is a pretty good example really. Would you consider him one of the best strikers in the world now because of the ability he showed at Liverpool?
I wasn't particularly interested in arguing whether Ronaldo is a better player than Messi, by the way, I just wanted to comment more on Form Vs. Ability as you'd sort of raised the topic. In terms of Ronaldo and Messi, I would say that the best player in the world now is Ronaldo because he has the best form currently but overall who's the better player then you'd have to look at their form over a longer period and it becomes a lot closer.
wasn't you mate
Alright mate. Although i´m a portuguese Sporting fan and obviously prefer Ronaldo, i´m a big fan of Messi and his ability. I don´t deny his greatness and that he is up there with the very best in football history.
I just came across this video with Ronaldo's 250 goals for Real Madrid and thought I'd share...
And what makes it even more impressive is that many others in that team score plenty of goals too. It's just amazing.
its funny but all the debate centers around achievements and how well their clubs do etc. For me the measurement comes largely from their playing abilities and Ronaldo has got a broader set of abilities.
When it comes to goalscoring I would agree. When it comes to dribbling, passing and creativity I think messi is better.
It's the quality of most of the goals as well
Anyone who thinks Ronaldo is within pissing distance of Messi should go and watch rugby or American football or something.
Ronaldo is two footed, is better in the air and can dribble brilliantly but in a different style to Messi. Ronaldo has faster feet and can pass as well as Messi. Sorry have to disagree on the passing thing and the creativity thing.
Honestly don't know how you can say such a thing. How does Cristiano have faster feet than Messi and how can he pass as well as Messi? I've literally never heard of anyone that thinks that until now. I'm baffled.
You put your pants on first and then your shoes ok. Once you get that trick worked out you wont find other stuff so baffling.
Have you ever watched Messi play?
Ronaldo is a good passer and crosser with both feet and is definitely underrated in that regard. But for me messi is one of the best passers of the ball and playmakers in the world and get a very high number of assists as well as chances created every year, much more than Ronaldo. In 11/12 he got around 26 assists as well as score 73 goals. Imo messi plays with better players than Ronaldo but Ronaldo plays with better goalscorers so I think it should be easier for him to get more assists than messi. Ronaldo was playing with benzema and higuain who get at least 20 goals every year while mess has been playing with an underperforming alexis (prior to this year) and pedro who got 13 goals that year and villa was out with a broken leg.
Messi is more clinical. He is technically and tactically better than Ronaldo. Ronaldo cannot dribble past players like Messi nor regulate tight spaces like him. Also the comment in regards to creativity and passing
. Those are not Ronaldo's strong points. Messi vision/creativity is immense as is his passing. Ronaldo is capable of playing good passes but it's not a part of his game he uses as much as he could. Ronaldo is goal scoring and physical dominance on another level to anything I have seen in football.
Messi is something else.
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