Cristiano Ronaldo

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sixpence said:
Exactly. Ferguson was his second father. Cannot overstate the importance on his development he had and how he helped him through the death of his father at a young age, everything else is conjecture. He might have been another Quaresma without Fergie, we will never know.
Click to expand...

Well yes, but the fact that he met Fergie and had a wonderful relationship with him will probably lead him to always say that kind of kind stuff, and genuinely believe it, as he's an extremely emotional fellow. It's unavoidable. Being more pragmatic, you really don't think he'd get over his father's death if he was at another club? Can't envision him becoming another Quaresma, they have such different personalities all together and it's unlikely someone you met at 18 can be the biggest determinant of those differences. These sort of traits are usually there from a very young age.

I was thinking more on a technical level, those romantic things are vague.

EDIT: Picking up on Sly's post above, thinking of whether his 3rd paragraph isn't a lot more meaningful to whom Ronaldo is today than his 2nd paragraph. That thinking was what led me to ask the original question in the first place.
 
Last edited:
Arruda said:
Well yes, but the fact that he met Fergie and had a wonderful relationship with him will probably lead him to always say that kind of kind stuff, and genuinely believe it, as he's an extremely emotional fellow. It's unavoidable. Being more pragmatic, you really don't think he'd get over his father's death if he was at another club? Can't envision him becoming another Quaresma, they have such different personalities all together and it's unlikely someone you met at 18 can be the biggest determinant of those differences. These sort of traits are usually there from a very young age.

I was thinking more on a technical level, those romantic things are vague. Still speculative and slightly moot anyway, I agree.
Click to expand...

Exactly. He would never be another Quaresma. Anyone who has really followed Ronaldo and his career, would know that.
 
i still makes my blood boil that we didn't offer him stupid money to stay... I don't by this "I had a dream" crap. When he left here he was on 120k a week... Real offered him 275k... yeah I have a dream to nearly triple my wages as well.

The thing is Ronaldo was clearly a once in a generation player when we had him, and after the 2008 CL win when the rumors about him trying to force a move to Madrid came out, United were praised for not giving in to player power and forcing Ronaldo to honor his existing contract. When in reality we should have offered him 300k a week to stay. And this lame "I had a dream" story allowed the club to save save face, when it was clear we'd done the wrong thing... instead we let the world greatest player slip through our fingers.

Then 2 years later we are bending over backwards to appease Rooney and now we are paying him 300k and he is HALF the player Ronaldo is.
 
I wonder how good he would be if he came through barcelonas youth system. I probably shouldn't say that asa Madrid fan, but his technique and passing and other technical skills would be better. It would be interesting to know
 
204Red said:
Then 2 years later we are bending over backwards to appease Rooney and now we are paying him 300k and he is HALF the player Ronaldo is.
Click to expand...
Yes but Rooney would never stray far from the chipshop and Ronaldo was always Madrid-bound.
 
Raul Madrid said:
I wonder how good he would be if he came through barcelonas youth system. I probably shouldn't say that asa Madrid fan, but his technique and passing and other technical skills would be better. It would be interesting to know
Click to expand...

Why? Our academy has a very good track record and history. We give scholarships and internships to members from europe´s top clubs. You just have to see the number of players we have produced over the years. We are the only club to have "produced" two world players of the year. It´s more of a question of the caracheristics of the player. We probably just don´t poach as much players as Barcelona from other youth clubs and countries.
 
Last edited:
Keeps It tidy said:
Ronaldo would have been a huge success regardless. Only injuries would have stopped him.
Click to expand...
Which is pretty much what I think. Hence why I think United's credit is overstated when we're talking about a player who, albeit young, was already a professional player driven to be the best in the world when you bought him, and whom was equally cared and supported at his previous club, in an arguably more important phase of his development. Ronaldo himself aside, Sporting deserves at least as much credit if not more. I don't see him as a United product.

There's something blatantly amiss in a quote I saw earlier that said "born in Madeira, bred in Manchester, [whatever] at Madrid".
 
Arruda said:
Which is pretty much what I think. Hence why I think United's credit is overstated when we're talking about a player who, albeit young, was already a professional player driven to be the best in the world when you bought him, and whom was equally cared and supported at his previous club. Ronaldo himself aside, Sporting deserves at least as much credit if not more. I don't see him as a United product.
Click to expand...

It doesn´t bother me. Most of the people are ignorant in what concerns portuguese football and the merits of our footballing academy. It´s not surprising.
 
I have made the point about Ronaldo too @Arruda . He would have done this anywhere, he is motivated from within. You can have your Messi-Ronaldo debates, but he has made FULL use if his ability and talent. Second best player I have ever seen.

His time at United will end up being a footnote by the time he is done.
 
JaffyJoe said:
I have made the point about Ronaldo too @Arruda . He would have done this anywhere, he is motivated from within. You can have your Messi-Ronaldo debates, but he has made FULL use if his ability and talent. Second best player I have ever seen.

His time at United will end up being a footnote by the time he is done.
Click to expand...

Ferguson´s work deserves credit no doubt. You can see that by Ronaldo´s gratitude towards him. The same gratitude he always gives to Sporting albeit in a more collective sense.
 
Sly said:
Why? Our academy has a very good track record and history. We give scholarships and internships to members from europe´s top clubs. You just have to see the number of players we have produced over the years. We are the only club to have "produced" two world players of the year. It´s more of a question of the caracheristics of the player.
Click to expand...
Oh, I am aware that sporting have a great youth system and I am very grateful by the way for figo and Ronaldo :). I just think that barca have the best youth system in the world right now and its not just that they produce great players, they produce players that know exactly how to play in the first team as the younger teams all play the same way. I think that is part of what makes messi so great and imo the best player in the world when he is on form with Ronaldo a close second. I was just wondering of Ronaldo would be better than messi if he came through that youth system as what they focus on the most there is what I feel Ronaldo lacks in comparison to messi ie incise passing, the ability to control the ball in tight spaces and the ability to drop deep and control matches etc. It just me thinking "what if?". For all I know if Ronaldo came from barcas youth team he would be the exact same or maybe even worse. I just think it would be interesting to know.
 
Sly said:
Ferguson´s work deserves credit no doubt. You can see that by Ronaldo´s gratitude towards him. The same gratitude he always gives to Sporting albeit in a more collective sense.
Click to expand...

Yes I agree, but the single biggest factor is the man himself, a mentor can only push you SO far.
 
He's gone from great from a United great to one of the greatest to he played the game. His capacity to improve is unreal. Glad to see him hit such heights, but man, I thought it all looked better in red!
 
Raul Madrid said:
Oh, I am aware that sporting have a great youth system and I am very grateful by the way for figo and Ronaldo :). I just think that barca have the best youth system in the world right now and its not just that they produce great players, they produce players that know exactly how to play in the first team as the younger teams all play the same way. I think that is part of what makes messi so great and imo the best player in the world when he is on form with Ronaldo a close second. I was just wondering of Ronaldo would be better than messi if he came through that youth system as what they focus on the most there is what I feel Ronaldo lacks in comparison to messi ie incise passing, the ability to control the ball in tight spaces and the ability to drop deep and control matches etc. It just me thinking "what if?". For all I know if Ronaldo came from barcas youth team he would be the exact same or maybe even worse. I just think it would be interesting to know.
Click to expand...

Ronaldo would've been told he's too big to play for Barca :lol:
 
Raul Madrid said:
Oh, I am aware that sporting have a great youth system and I am very grateful by the way for figo and Ronaldo :). I just think that barca have the best youth system in the world right now and its not just that they produce great players, they produce players that know exactly how to play in the first team as the younger teams all play the same way. I think that is part of what makes messi so great and imo the best player in the world when he is on form with Ronaldo a close second. I was just wondering of Ronaldo would be better than messi if he came through that youth system as what they focus on the most there is what I feel Ronaldo lacks in comparison to messi ie incise passing, the ability to control the ball in tight spaces and the ability to drop deep and control matches etc. It just me thinking "what if?". For all I know if Ronaldo came from barcas youth team he would be the exact same or maybe even worse. I just think it would be interesting to know.
Click to expand...

Same thing happens at Sporting.

Look Barcelona obviously has more financial power, means and appeal but we have staff like Aurélio Pereira that over the years have been considered amongst the best in the world in terms of youth team coordination. Some of the best footballing schools in europe are more about their human resources, DNA, history and philosophy rather than the financial power. Having said that, i think that it depends more on the caractheristics of the player. Figo came from our academy and was a very tactically disciplined, techinical and intelligent player. Carvalho at the moment is the same. You can see that he has the pedigree and teachings of our academy. His tactical awareness, his discipline, his collective sense and positioning. They learn the fundamentals of this in our academy. Like i said, our track record speaks for itself and is better than most of the top clubs with much more financial power and conditions than us.
 
Sly said:
Same thing happens at Sporting.

Look Barcelona obviously has more financial power, means and appeal but we have staff like Aurélio Pereira that over the years have been considered amongst the best in the world in terms of youth team coordination. Some of the best footballing schools in europe are more about their human resources, DNA, history and philosophy rather than the financial power. Having said that, i think that it depends more on the caractheristics of the player. Figo came from our academy and was a very tactically disciplined, techinical and intelligent player. Carvalho at the moment is the same. You can see that he has the pedigree and teachings of our academy. His tactical awareness, his discipline, his collective sense and positioning. They learn the fundamentals of this in our academy. Like i said, our track record speaks for itself and is better than most of the top clubs with much more financial power and conditions than us.
Click to expand...
Ok that is very interesting, I did not know that. Im sorry if I seemed ignorant. I always thought that it was a smart idea for the youth teams to play the same way as the first team. I thought Barcelona were the only team to do that, but I guess I was wrong. I probably assumed that because they are so vocal about it whereas sporting don't boast about it so much.
 
Raul Madrid said:
Ok that is very interesting, I did not know that. Im sorry if I seemed ignorant. I always thought that it was a smart idea for the youth teams to play the same way as the first team. I thought Barcelona were the only team to do that, but I guess I was wrong. I probably assumed that because they are so vocal about it whereas sporting don't boast about it so much.
Click to expand...

No worries mate. It isn´t just Sporting. Ajax and Partizan for example also have the same kind of youth team approach and setups. It´s in their footballing philosophy.
 
I would also throw mourinho in there as someone who helped Ronaldo a bit. Obviously when mourinho first got to manage Ronaldo he was already a world class player, but when he came to Madrid and even after his first season at the club he still had the label of a big game bottler, especially against barcelona. I remember reading during the 11/12 season about mourinho talking to Ronaldo to calm him down about playing against them and to focus on getting the little things right like passing the ball and helping his teammates out and then the goals would come naturally against Barcelona. There was a big difference in the second half of 11/12 where he scored 3 vs Barcelona and 2 vs Bayern and also a hattrick away vs atletico to the 09/10 and 10/11 seasons where he only managed 2 gaols vs Barcelona over the course of two seasons. I think that by 12/13 that Ronaldo was undoubtedly a big game player and even more so than messi as he scored 6 goals that season vs Barcelona, 2 against man united, 2 vs Dortmund, the winner vs city, 2 vs atletico Madrid including one in the final of the Spanish cup and these goals were scored both at home and away. Im not saying mourinho was as important to him as sporting or alex ferguson but I think he played his part, based upon what I have read of course. Nobody can know for definite how much of ronaldos success is down to him and down to the others except himself, but I would say sporting and ferguson were very important to him and mourinho helped him with that little push he needed to become an undisputed big game player.
 
Raul Madrid said:
I would also throw mourinho in there as someone who helped Ronaldo a bit. Obviously when mourinho first got to manage Ronaldo he was already a world class player, but when he came to Madrid and even after his first season at the club he still had the label of a big game bottler, especially against barcelona. I remember reading during the 11/12 season about mourinho talking to Ronaldo to calm him down about playing against them and to focus on getting the little things right like passing the ball and helping his teammates out and then the goals would come naturally against Barcelona. There was a big difference in the second half of 11/12 where he scored 3 vs Barcelona and 2 vs Bayern and also a hattrick away vs atletico to the 09/10 and 10/11 seasons where he only managed 2 gaols vs Barcelona over the course of two seasons. I think that by 12/13 that Ronaldo was undoubtedly a big game player and even more so than messi as he scored 6 goals that season vs Barcelona, 2 against man united, 2 vs Dortmund, the winner vs city, 2 vs atletico Madrid including one in the final of the Spanish cup and these goals were scored both at home and away. Im not saying mourinho was as important to him as sporting or alex ferguson but I think he played his part, based upon what I have read of course. Nobody can know for definite how much of ronaldos success is down to him and down to the others except himself, but I would say sporting and ferguson were very important to him and mourinho helped him with that little push he needed to become an undisputed big game player.
Click to expand...

I definitely agree with this opinion. Mourinho also tried to improve Quaresma at Inter but couldn´t. He really thought he could take Quaresma´s potencial and make him a World Class player. The problem was Quaresma´s mentality, ability to handle pressure and professionalism. Mourinho obviously had his part in Ronaldo´s evolution, specially in big games like you said.
 
Last edited:
People say how Fergie and Mourinho helps to develop his game to become the player he is today, but i think it is his rivalry with Messi who he is competing against in the same league makes him improve to that insane level today. You've got to up your gear beyond maximum in order to beat the best player of the world ever.
 
Remember he used to score one or two every weekend for us? Every single weekend without fail. Christ, its amazing that he has further improved. He truly is the World's greatest.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
Remember he used to score one or two every weekend for us? Every single weekend without fail. Christ, its amazing that he has further improved. He truly is the World's greatest.
Click to expand...

He scores against the big teams too which was a big criticism of him during his career and he does it regularly now too. I cant think of a big team that he hasn't scored against: Barca, united, Bayern, Dortmund, arsenal, liverpool, juventus, roma, Milan, inter, atletico, Valencia, Chelsea, city everyone. I also struggle to think of a big stadium he hasn't scored at except Stamford bridge, maybe anfield too but im not sure. Every year he seems to improve, if he didn't get injured in November this year and also get suspended for 3 games for being a tit vs athletic bilbao then he would have even more goals this year and it is the only reason he is not running away with the golden boot. Madrid are very lucky to have him and hopefully madrid can capitalise on this great chance and win the final.
 
Raul Madrid said:
He scores against the big teams too which was a big criticism of him during his career and he does it regularly now too. I cant think of a big team that he hasn't scored against: Barca, united, Bayern, Dortmund, arsenal, liverpool, juventus, roma, Milan, inter, atletico, Valencia, Chelsea, city everyone. I also struggle to think of a big stadium he hasn't scored at except Stamford bridge, maybe anfield too but im not sure. Every year he seems to improve, if he didn't get injured in November this year and also get suspended for 3 games for being a tit vs athletic bilbao then he would have even more goals this year and it is the only reason he is not running away with the golden boot. Madrid are very lucky to have him and hopefully madrid can capitalise on this great chance and win the final.
Click to expand...
Absolutely, Madrid have an incredible chance now.
 
Raul Madrid said:
I wonder how good he would be if he came through barcelonas youth system. I probably shouldn't say that asa Madrid fan, but his technique and passing and other technical skills would be better. It would be interesting to know
Click to expand...
Im trying to work out which parts of his skills need improving.
 
Stack said:
Im trying to work out which parts of his skills need improving.
Click to expand...
Compare parts of his game to messis and iniestas (while a completely different player to Ronaldo, has similar skills to messi that if Ronaldo had would improve him) and you will see. He doesn't pass the ball as well as them and nor is his touch as good in tight spaces and he is unable to dictate games like messi either. Messi unlike Ronaldo can play in the middle where there is less space because his touch is good enough whereas Ronaldo cant as was seen in the last classico as the most recent example of many cases.
 
Last edited:
Ronaldo isn't comparable to any of Barcelona's academy graduates. I'm not sure their teaching techniques would have suited him at all. Ronaldo's a battering ram, an explosive player, Barcelona graduates tend to be more subtle.
 
Well Ronaldo is the best player ever in terms of counter attack play, that's for sure. In teams that play with counter attack system, no player does it better than Ronaldo, not even Messi, Pele or Maradona.
 
Raul Madrid said:
Compare parts of his game to messis and iniestas (while a completely different player to Ronaldo, has similar skills to messi that if Ronaldo had would improve him) and you will see. He doesn't pass the ball as well as them and nor is his touch as good in tight spaces and he is unable to dictate games like messi either. Messi unlike Ronaldo can play in the middle where there is less space because his touch is good enough whereas Ronaldo cant as was seen in the last classic as the most recent example of many cases.
Click to expand...
yeah sorry but I disagree with all of that.
 
Really pleased for him, hope he gets his hands on the Champions League again, he deserves it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.