Nothing to take away from messi but he's not as good as he was but that's bbecause ronaldo is better now
Cristiano Ronaldo
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Why does this thread always have to revert back to comparing Ronaldo to other great players every few months? I don't read every post but I feel like it's the same points being argued over and over again.
Thats because it is, its the same thing discussed everyday
It's odd isn't it? He pretty much has scored half of Madrid's goals for the past 4 years, and some people just love targeting his negatives instead of appreciate just how good he is.
I like how Vijay's posts are completely ignored 
See also: the Moyes threads.
Though you have to appreciate people's relentness. There's probably about 200 pages of posts here of comparisons with Messi!
nothing to do with a struggle for fitness and the overall decline of his team? I'd say that's a tad harsh.
For past 4 season he average scored over 60 goals a season and made around 15 assist per season too. If thats not qualify as the most complete, productive and creative attacker we've ever witness I don't know who is. (In comparison Messi has 2 season better but 2 season worser stats in past 4 years)
2 seasons? can you name them? even last season, if we look at the SEASON, messi was better by quite a bit. this season it's ronaldo no contest, but largely due to messi's injuries and form.
i don't think there's much wrong with what he said. there isn't really anything in any attempt to compare ronaldo's passing to messi's passing, just like it would be a bit of nonsense to compare messi's aerial ability with ronaldo's.You guys are so fecking ridiculous. Christ. Posts like this.
There is nothing wrong with what he said. Ronaldo is an underrated passer - he would get more praise if he was more of a "team player", but Messi is just on a different level passing wise. Messi has improved on his passing since 09/10, and has looked like an excellent playmaker for quite some time now. As he grows older, I don't see why he can't transform himself into a central midfielder, a position that he isn't alien to.You guys are so fecking ridiculous. Christ. Posts like this
Obviously this season Ronaldo has been so far ahead Messi (up to now he scored 49 goals and 11 assist in all competitions, compared to Messi 28 goals and 9 assist). In 2010-01 season, he score 56 goals compared to Messi 51, although Messi had 22 assist compared to Ronaldo 16. I assume goals are more important than assists so I would have Ronaldo for that year.
For argument sake, Ronaldo has scored 238 goals and made 57 assists, whereas Messi has scored 231 goals and made 76 assists over past 4 seasons in all competitions. They are on the same level.
So lets get the fact right first, don't try to go too one side in favour of Messi, or either one of them.
you've forgotten that messi outscored ronaldo in the ucl's by 6! goals, was tied with ronaldo in goals up to the point where barca won the league (and then messi didn't score or play much in the next 4-5 games), and they both ended with the equal total of 53 goals for that season, with messi having a half dozen more assists. it's close but that doesn't make it any less that it was a superior year for messi. i could say that despite messi's numbers in 2011-12, arguably ronaldo was more important, (i don't fully believe this, but ronaldo was very very good that season), and 2012-13 messi was superior. so you have 2 maybes.
i don't understand why you feel the need to tell me to get facts right first, or to be unbiased when you've taken stances on two very interpretative and subjective seasons. statistically messi was superior by a mile in 2011-12, and statistically messi was as good as ronaldo if not better in 2010-11. this season 2013-14 ronaldo is ahead by quite a bit. that's getting the facts right.
*also, funny thing, you've told me to get my facts right(?), but gotten your own facts wrong... ronaldo scored 53 in 2010-11, not 56, and messi scored 53, not 51.
Its better to compare goal to games ratio, and in the season Ronaldo got 47 goals he did it in 49 games, so basically a 1 in 1 goal ratio at 19. Van Basten never had a 60 goals season, but then again Van Basten played in probably the one of the best defensive era ever, in the Serie A Van Basten played in Cristiano wouldn't be achieving anything like 60 goals in a season either.
Stats are taken from soccernet, Ronaldo scored 56 goals and 16 assist in 2010-11 (40 goals in league, 6 goals in CL, 7 goals in Cup, and 3 goals for Portugal). When I mean in all competition, that included international games.
Don't you think it is quite meaningless to break it down that way? Next you would be saying who score more in Spanish Cup, then in the league, then in the WC, then in the WC qualifier... isn't the picture clearer if we compare their stats in all competition instead?
Statistically over the past 4 season Ronaldo score more goals whereas Messi assists more. Overall they are on same level. Fact.
There's lot of people here go too one sided on Messi here, when fact is they are more or less on the same level in terms of end products and importance to their team. Opinion differs when judging who is the better player (there are other important aspect such as influence on the pitch, quality of play which is hard to quantify, players like Zidane and Xavi are prime examples). I am not here to argue who is the better player, but in terms of stats, Ronaldo and Messi are equal.
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Wrong, that's your opinion.
Why are we still doing comparisons
It infuriates me to no end when people keep chalking up arguments to compare players from different eras, different leagues, different styles in a grand statistical mash up without putting the intangibles into context.
Why can't we just enjoy watching two goats perform week in and week out in the same generation. It's like a rehash of whole Federer vs Nadal debate. Messi's like Roger - the more naturally gifted of the two, more creative, more of a collective player and more incisive. Ronaldo's the Nadal - a genius of sheer hard work and determination, a better athlete, not far behind statistically and made more of a lesser gift.
For the sake of arguments they are both among the greatest of all time. Only difference being that Lionel has a genuine chance of being perhaps the greatest ever breaking the hegemony of Pele, Maradona, Di Stefano and Cruyff. Ronaldo is more like Gerd Muller, Van Basten or El Fenomeno, statistically goat but a rung below the absolute best.
It infuriates me to no end when people keep chalking up arguments to compare players from different eras, different leagues, different styles in a grand statistical mash up without putting the intangibles into context.
Why can't we just enjoy watching two goats perform week in and week out in the same generation. It's like a rehash of whole Federer vs Nadal debate. Messi's like Roger - the more naturally gifted of the two, more creative, more of a collective player and more incisive. Ronaldo's the Nadal - a genius of sheer hard work and determination, a better athlete, not far behind statistically and made more of a lesser gift.
For the sake of arguments they are both among the greatest of all time. Only difference being that Lionel has a genuine chance of being perhaps the greatest ever breaking the hegemony of Pele, Maradona, Di Stefano and Cruyff. Ronaldo is more like Gerd Muller, Van Basten or El Fenomeno, statistically goat but a rung below the absolute best.
In terms of stats they are.
You are not quoting my whole sentence there, I don't know why you did that.
Alright my bad I thought you meant overall careers.
Yes the statistical battle is quite balanced at the moment.
In terms of stats they may not be far from each other (although in terms of creativity Messi still has a clear edge) but there is no doubt who has the better of the two if their entire careers is taken into account. It's Messi and he's younger than Ronaldo so has time to possibly produce at a high level for longer than him.
i see. in that case, you should include the context, and also note that ronaldo then played 6 more games then messi, scoring 56 in 61 games. messi scored 51 in 55 games. if you convert the ratios and apply messi's to the same number of games, you get 56.56 goals out of 61 games. pretty much equal goal scoring rates.
let's not pretend that the ucl is not arguably the premier competition of world football. it is pretty significant, and shows where messi made up for the 9 goals less then ronaldo in the league.
how'd you figure that? i went to that same site you used, soccernet, went to 09/10 and added all the goals since 09/10 for messi and ronaldo, and i ended up with 280 goals for messi, and 271 goals for ronaldo, counting from the 2009/10 season. can you show me the maths?
i don't think anyone is arguing that they're pretty equal in terms of stats. i calculated messi and ronaldo's goals per games ratio's since 2009/10, and messi is at .942, and ronaldo .940, ridiculously close.
it's about ronaldo's total ability and how that translates to the level of greatness he is at.
I am counting from 2010/11 onwards (past 4 season). If you count from 2009 instead (past 5 season) Messi has recorded slightly more goals, which is fair (Ronaldo was injured in 2009/10 season and has played 21 games less, but so is Messi this season, who has played 15 games less).
But point is, statistically speaking, overall the past 4 or 5 season Ronaldo and Messi are on the same level.
However Messi does have the edge in terms quality of play, he is generally more involved in the game, the way he dribbles, quality of finishing and playing one-two with his teamates are all in highest standard. Whereas Ronaldo, in terms of sheer determination and to will to win at all cost and carrying mission on his own, are also unmatched in any era.
It's the same cycle: Ronaldo talk, someone proclaims Ronaldo as the greatest of all time, the point is argued, the dust settles and it starts all over again.
In reality there is only so much to discuss on any given topic or player. The forum is too big and we all clearly have too much time. Things will always go around in circles, like they do in most threads.
Someone once told me "Time is a flat circle."
We've reached the stage where it's now "ridiculous" to claim Messi's a better passer than Ronaldo. Jesus. Amazing what scoring a lot of goals does for your reputation, it'd seem.
same. becomes quite ridiculous. Not sure why it's hard to appreciate these players for what they do. These arguments on Ronaldo and Messi just come across as extremely petty.
Why are we still doing comparisons
It infuriates me to no end when people keep chalking up arguments to compare players from different eras, different leagues, different styles in a grand statistical mash up without putting the intangibles into context.
Why can't we just enjoy watching two goats perform week in and week out in the same generation. It's like a rehash of whole Federer vs Nadal debate. Messi's like Roger - the more naturally gifted of the two, more creative, more of a collective player and more incisive. Ronaldo's the Nadal - a genius of sheer hard work and determination, a better athlete, not far behind statistically and made more of a lesser gift.
For the sake of arguments they are both among the greatest of all time. Only difference being that Lionel has a genuine chance of being perhaps the greatest ever breaking the hegemony of Pele, Maradona, Di Stefano and Cruyff. Ronaldo is more like Gerd Muller, Van Basten or El Fenomeno, statistically goat but a rung below the absolute best.
Given that you end your post by comparing players, I guess its because people believe their opinion deserves to be heard.
Compared to the times when FranklyVulgar and Cal? had their epic arguments.... Today's debates on Ronaldo and Messi are good natured, informative and friendly
Real Madrid would have paid Manchester United £150m for Cristiano Ronaldo, claims Sir Alex Ferguson
Monday 3 Mar 2014 2:18 pm
Carvalho admits he’s interested in United switch
Sir Alex Ferguson attends the 2014 Vanity Fair Oscar Party (Picture: Getty)
‘The only thing that hurt me, and I said this repeatedly to David Gill, was that we didn’t demand enough.
‘I still keep asking myself what Senor Perez would have said if we had asked for £150m.
‘Considering they signed Gareth Bale for £85 million, I believe they would have agreed to pay between £80 and £150 million.
‘I am sure, because I know that Perez knew perfectly the quality of the player he was getting, as shown by Cristiano’s stats at United.’
Monday 3 Mar 2014 2:18 pm
Carvalho admits he’s interested in United switch
Sir Alex Ferguson attends the 2014 Vanity Fair Oscar Party (Picture: Getty)
‘The only thing that hurt me, and I said this repeatedly to David Gill, was that we didn’t demand enough.
‘I still keep asking myself what Senor Perez would have said if we had asked for £150m.
‘Considering they signed Gareth Bale for £85 million, I believe they would have agreed to pay between £80 and £150 million.
‘I am sure, because I know that Perez knew perfectly the quality of the player he was getting, as shown by Cristiano’s stats at United.’
What I love about Ronaldo is his constant pursuit to try and get better, he could have scored 10 goals in a game and he'll still be pissed off if he misses a chance. The drive, the hunger, the desperation to get better and better really is inspirational. He doesn't give a feck about what anyone thinks, just does what he needs to and he is reaping the rewards. It's inspirational stuff.
Just a shame our overpaid, granny humping, twice want-away feckwit doesn't have that same strengths
Just a shame our overpaid, granny humping, twice want-away feckwit doesn't have that same strengths
Real Madrid would have paid Manchester United £150m for Cristiano Ronaldo, claims Sir Alex Ferguson
Monday 3 Mar 2014 2:18 pm
Carvalho admits he’s interested in United switch
Sir Alex Ferguson attends the 2014 Vanity Fair Oscar Party (Picture: Getty)
‘The only thing that hurt me, and I said this repeatedly to David Gill, was that we didn’t demand enough.
‘I still keep asking myself what Senor Perez would have said if we had asked for £150m.
‘Considering they signed Gareth Bale for £85 million, I believe they would have agreed to pay between £80 and £150 million.
‘I am sure, because I know that Perez knew perfectly the quality of the player he was getting, as shown by Cristiano’s stats at United.’
Absolutely, I said to my friends at the time that we should have gotten at least £100m.
It is not just the football impact Ronaldo has, it the commercial Value.
We have given Real Madrid our two best commercial valued players in Beckham and Ronaldo. That offsets the £80m spent by Real Madrid and his wages.
Yeah, Ronaldo is one of a kind.
The last part of your statement is interesting (and a debate for another thread). But I've never understood the love in for Ronaldo and the disdain for Rooney myself.
Yeah Ronaldo's only ever spoken lovely about us and SAF and joined his "dream" club, whilst Rooney's acted the twat twice....yet the one is still with us and has given us the prime years of his career (albeit he's getting paid very well for it) to us.
Ronaldo's always been a selfish individual though. He's so good so he has the right to be and think of brand CR7 first but I just don't understand hating Rooney and "loving" Ronaldo.
One of those players desperately wanted to leave United, the other desperately wanted to stay.
In neither scenario are we in a position of strength when it comes to negotiating a fee.
I think it was shame when each of them left, for footballing reasons.
The financial elements of the deal didn't bother me, although it was understandable for the reasons I outlined above.
Yeah, an extra £70 million to go into the Glazer's pockets would have been mighty dandy.
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