Cristiano Ronaldo

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Ronaldo is much more than a striker, let alone a goal poacher. The only footballer in Europe who was capable of scoring 50+ goals several seasons in a row was Gerd Müller. And he was only a goal poacher. Fat Ronaldo managed only 48 in his best season in Spain. And he was bloody fantastic in that season. C. Ronaldo isn't even a centre forward, he doesn't play as a main striker. Don't tell me that Benzema plays as a second striker ot something.

To score so many golas in several consecutive seasons without playing as a centre forward is an achievment that only Messi has matched in Europe. And Ronaldo is much more creative than some fans are able to realize. He was one of the most creative players in the world season 2006/07, if not the most creative. Having in mind this season, it would be a complete travesty to present his as a footballer who can be world class only when it comes to scoring goals. Short memories, etc. Those who say that he isn't a great dribbler any more do not watch him enough. He can be fantastic with the ball at his feet.
 
AldoPaine18 said:
It will never happen, Ronaldo simply isnt in that mould which are usually referred to as greatest of all time. Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, Di Stefano and Messi, all these players share one thing in common - they are very complete attacking players. They could do everything and actually did a lot more than Ronaldo does over 90 minutes. All those players had great scoring ability and creativity but most importantly the ability to dominate a game by being at the heart of it the whole time. Ronaldo would always be in the bracket of the likes of Eusebio, Puskas, Ronaldo Fenomeno, etc, which isn't a bad company to have but the ones who would affect a game mainly through their goal threat despite having other qualities while the former group could assume most roles needed to influence a game and even if they don't score they would be able to tilt the game in the favour of their side.
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Obvious you are talking about players you never saw playing, Pele was a great player and more complete than maradona but Maradona was more entertaining to watch and he did take Argentina to a WC basically by himself then you have players better than cruiff, di Stefano and messi which fat Ronaldo was above them and specially Garrincha which for a lot of Brazilians he was above Pele. Now if you like it or no CR is a more complete player than messi and I would wait a few more years to find out who's better, you see until now (last year) Barcelona was the best team and now they are a bit shit.
 
Treble said:
Ronaldo is much more than a striker, let alone a goal poacher. The only footballer in Europe who was capable of scoring 50+ goals several seasons in a row was Gerd Müller. And he was only a goal poacher. Fat Ronaldo managed only 48 in his best season in Spain. And he was bloody fantastic in that season. C. Ronaldo isn't even a centre forward, he doesn't play as a main striker. Don't tell me that Benzema plays as a second striker ot something.

To score so many golas in several consecutive seasons without playing as a centre forward is an achievment that only Messi has matched in Europe. And Ronaldo is much more creative than some fans are able to realize. He was one of the most creative players in the world season 2006/07, if not the most creative. Having in mind this season, it would be a complete travesty to present his as a footballer who can be world class only when it comes to scoring goals. Short memories, etc. Those who say that he isn't a great dribbler any more do not watch him enough. He can be fantastic with the ball at his feet.
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The talk about him not being a striker has become irrelevant in the last few years and for the last year for Messi, both of them take up positions that strikers take, Messi in recent months and Ronaldo both basically play as strikers throughout the game. Even yesterday Ronaldo was interchanging with Benzema, at times he was the furthest forward on the pitch.

He wasn't as talented as Brazilian Ronaldo, Gerd Muller who you mentioned as matching Ronaldos stats, is rarely mentioned in peoples top 5.
 
Red Shorts said:
He is quite a good passer actually, this is a bit of a myth I don't quite understand... If he wasn't a good passer then how has he just overtaken Ozil, who is supposed to be a passing god, on the assists for Real Madrid?

And how is he not a complete footballer then if he has pace, strength, long shot, short shot, a leap both feet, technique and agility? Am I missing something to make him not complete?
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Spot on.

He can assist if he wants to. The thing is, he's just too good at scoring so you don't notice it as much.
 
This old he only scores goals in games of football chestnut.

He also assists non stop but no, he doesn't have football intelligence.
 
JaffyJoe said:
Which is fine because he is so good at what he does and he did score the goals that got you there. But once you critique him on here at all, there is uproar. I've made an effort to watch more of him this season and I fully agree wth you.

He is an amazing player but anyone who can't see these weaknesses doesn't watch him enough.
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I believe you can criticize any footballer but obviously if done fairly. No player is perfect nor is complete. The pb with football discussions is that what you said can be interpreted stupidly to an extreme you never meant by people who are too quick to defend their idols without even taking the time to properly read what's been posted.

Arruda said:
I think Ronaldo's strengths and weaknesses were well illustrated in the Portuguese run to the world cup. Being our best player (well, he is at Madrid too, but it's a lesser difference towards the 2nd bests) and having unique status all offensive duties were up to him and the product was absolutely nothing. In the match against Sweden, circumstances forced us to play a bit more like Madrid, he ran free up front, and was absolutely devastating.
The play making and creative elements of his game are relatively weak, he's raw power and finishing prowess taken to insane heights.
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Perfect description for Ronaldo IMHO.
 
It baffles me as an argument. Messi has surpassed him with pretty much every barometer we have to measure footballers and he's younger. Why can't Ronaldo ve appreciated without measuring him aagainst a clearly superior footballer.
 
Archie Leach said:
It baffles me as an argument. Messi has surpassed him with pretty much every barometer we have to measure footballers and he's younger. Why can't Ronaldo ve appreciated without measuring him aagainst a clearly superior footballer.
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When even his used-to-be biggest haters over at RAWK are discussing this heavily with things going 50/50 (see their Ronaldo thread in the general forum), you have to say many more people are in disagreement when you bring the argument as clear-cut as you did there .... HALA RONALDOEEEE.
 
Kevin said:
When even his used-to-be biggest haters over at RAWK are discussing this heavily (see their Ronaldo thread in the general forum) with things going 50/50, you have to say many more people are in disagreement when you bring the argument as clear-cut as you did there .... HALA RONALDOEEEE.
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Did you just use RAWK to strengthen your argument?

But I get what you're saying but it's more reflective of how Ronaldo is in ascension at the moment and Messi was temporarily in the opposite and football fans are obviously fickle. But, and I say this as someone who loathes Barcelona, Messi has more goals, more assists, more trophies and more individual awards. Not to mention more subjective elements like his involvement in general play.
 
Liverpool and Arsenal fans are bitter about Ronaldo. That neither club has never had a player of his quality in their ranks grates for them. They like to downplay his brilliance.
 
Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
Liverpool and Arsenal fans are bitter about Ronaldo. That neither club has never had a player of his quality in their ranks grates for them. They like to downplay his brilliance.
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You think he is better than Maradona Messi Pele then?

No ones downplaying his ability, just saying he isn't in that class which a lot of United posters agree with.
 
Archie Leach said:
It baffles me as an argument. Messi has surpassed him with pretty much every barometer we have to measure footballers and he's younger. Why can't Ronaldo ve appreciated without measuring him aagainst a clearly superior footballer.
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People forget he is two years younger than Ronaldo as well.
 
Every player has that unique quality that distinguishes them from the rest. Ronaldo can't playmake like Messi, or doesn't look as good on the ball as Iniesta, or can't defend as well as O'Shea. So? He is a key player for one of the best clubs in the world, and has been consistent since 2006. I don't think his name can be placed next to Pele, Maradona, Cryuff... but apart from leading Real to the Decima, or taking Portugal deep into the World Cup, I can't think of anything else he can do to elevate his status. He's solidly in that tier below, and fyi, he's the better Ronaldo.

"Score less goals, and become a playmaker, because some hipster rubbish"
 
adexkola said:
Every player has that unique quality that distinguishes them from the rest. Ronaldo can't playmake like Messi, or doesn't look as good on the ball as Iniesta, or can't defend as well as O'Shea. So? He is a key player for one of the best clubs in the world, and has been consistent since 2006. I don't think his name can be placed next to Pele, Maradona, Cryuff... but apart from leading Real to the Decima, or taking Portugal deep into the World Cup, I can't think of anything else he can do to elevate his status. He's solidly in that tier below, and fyi, he's the better Ronaldo.

"Score less goals, and become a playmaker, because some hipster rubbish"
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I'm sure Ronaldo wouldn't worse than him
 
Messi is arguably the best player ever. The fact that Ronaldo has managed to win two Ballon d'Ors during Messi's reign already speaks volumes about the Portuguese. In comparison with Messi he isn't particularly creative. That's true. But Messi is a genius in that respect. Ronaldo has the ability to be quite creative though. Season 06/07 proves it quite clearly. But his close control and ability to pass the ball aren't close to Messi's level. Still, it would be quite interesting to see how Ronaldo would do in that Barcelona team. It's obvious that Messi has played with better players than Ronaldo. Barca's midfield is far superior to United's and Madrid's. Who knows, maybe with a midfield like Barca's Ronaldo would have scored not 50+ but, say, 65+ goals several seasons in a row.
 
Season 06/07 proves nothing about Ronaldo today, in the same token that Anderson's time at Porto doesn't prove he can break through defenses at will and be a constant goal threat. Players lose and gain traits throughout their evolution, fortunately Ronaldo, for the most part, became incredibly better at almost anything, but most will agree he lost some creativity and unpredictability since then. Considering what he gained, it's a good thing for him.

Looking at superlatives, I think he fits better with the adjectives "beast" or "machine", than "genius".
 
Treble said:
Messi is arguably the best player ever. The fact that Ronaldo has managed to win two Ballon d'Ors during Messi's reign already speaks volumes about the Portuguese. In comparison with Messi he isn't particularly creative. That's true. But Messi is a genius in that respect. Ronaldo has the ability to be quite creative though. Season 06/07 proves it quite clearly. But his close control and ability to pass the ball aren't close to Messi's level. Still, it would be quite interesting to see how Ronaldo would do in that Barcelona team. It's obvious that Messi has played with better players than Ronaldo. Barca's midfield is far superior to United's and Madrid's. Who knows, maybe with a midfield like Barca's Ronaldo would have scored not 50+ but, say, 65+ goals several seasons in a row.
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Ronaldo would be a great fit in Barca's false 9 formation. Take the role of someone like Pedro with ease. Issue will be him and Messi going for a lot of same chances that Xavi-Iniesta will create
 
I'm not quite sure why people are hesitant to put ronaldo in the same bracket as proper legends, it's got nothing to do with his football but I don't know.
 
Maybe he has lost something. Some players indeed lose some of their qualities. I'm not sure this is true of Ronaldo though. It is his ambition to outscore Messi which stands in the way of his creativity. Should he decide that creating chances is no less valuable than scoring goals, he could be quite creative again. That's very hypothetical though.
 
Both Messi and Ronaldo will be put in the bracket as proper legends when they retire. I think that's how things were, and that's how things will be. Messi, the greatest player eva FTW!!! posts needs to be taken with a pinch of salt, as are the posts about Ronaldo's all round game and tackling and interception per game.

One thing's for sure, it's a privilege to watch these two gifted footballers at their peak.
 
Treble said:
Maybe he has lost something. Some players indeed lose some of their qualities. I'm not sure this is true of Ronaldo though. It is his ambition to outscore Messi which stands in the way of his creativity. Should he decide that creating chances is no less valuable than scoring goals, he could be quite creative again. That's very hypothetical though.
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I think it's a bit more simple than that. His ambition is to outscore the other team that's playing against him and he wants to score more. It's some sort of lunacy that Ronaldo wants to outshine Messi and that's why he takes so many shots, it's how he plays, get used to it. Messi has done similar things, trying to play every game without being substituted, playing for the record too. He did it for the record, not to outshine Ronaldo. It's a football rivalry, not some romcom situation gone wrong.
 
I'm debating the view that Ronaldo isn't creative, I'm not saying that he should try to be more creative.
 
fishfingers15 said:
I think it's a bit more simple than that. His ambition is to outscore the other team that's playing against him and he wants to score more. It's some sort of lunacy that Ronaldo wants to outshine Messi and that's why he takes so many shots, it's how he plays, get used to it. Messi has done similar things, trying to play every game without being substituted, playing for the record too. He did it for the record, not to outshine Ronaldo. It's a football rivalry, not some romcom situation gone wrong.
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All of that is so speculative, you must read the papers every morning and it must change your life, the amount of 'truths' your told....

Or, perhaps you don't know feck all about Messi's character and why he does what he does, you can only piece it together and come up with a theory (Such as he's not trying to outshine Ronnie) but in truth, you haven't got a Scooby doo mate, none of us have
 
Treble said:
I'm debating the view that Ronaldo isn't creative, I'm not saying that he should try to be more creative.
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Completely agree, people see 'creative' as merely someone who hit's crosses 24/7, even if Ronnie detracts defenders so they swamp him and he passes it out a team mate (Who is free by the fact CR has pulled the defenders away) he is being creative.
 
Jaybezia said:
All of that is so speculative, you must read the papers every morning and it must change your life, the amount of 'truths' your told....

Or, perhaps you don't know feck all about Messi's character and why he does what he does, you can only piece it together and come up with a theory (Such as he's not trying to outshine Ronnie) but in truth, you haven't got a Scooby doo mate, none of us have
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Eh what? So Treble knows Ronaldo's character that he wants to outshine Messi? It's a speculation on his part too, unless you are saying you are mates with Ronaldo? Of course it's all speculation. There is competitiveness within all great sportsmen, but it's a bit ridiculous think that Ronaldo is thinking of Messi when he takes his 657th shot of the match.

Both players play for the records and that is a part of their motivation.
 
Snipers Breath said:
You think he is better than Maradona Messi Pele then?

No ones downplaying his ability, just saying he isn't in that class which a lot of United posters agree with.
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I don't think that he stands on that level yet. He isn't that far behind Messi IMO. I object to posters like B20 saying that he can never be as good as Messi, it is just absolute nonsense. If Ronaldo goes to the World Cup this year, scores 10 goals and leads Portugal to glory then he will surpass Messi for a start. It is still within Ronaldo's power to elevate himself to the very highest tier. All this talk of skill set and playing style is redundant. If he translates his style into the most remarkable of achievements then he will be revered appropriately.
 
fishfingers15 said:
Eh what? So Treble knows Ronaldo's character that he wants to outshine Messi? It's a speculation on his part too, unless you are saying you are mates with Ronaldo?
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No, I'm not but he seemed to pose it as his opinion, to which you came in and almost corrected, not offering a different opinion, anyway, not important.
 
Jaybezia said:
No, I'm not but he seemed to pose it as his opinion, to which you came in and almost corrected, not offering a different opinion, anyway, not important.
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I've edited my post, but it his line of 'his ambition is to outscore Messi' didn't sound like a question at all. All I'm saying is, there is a rivalry between Messi and Ronaldo and Ballon D'or matters to both the players. Messi plays in a Barcelona team in a system that worked well for them and they play to his strengths as well, as Real Madrid play to Ronaldo's strengths. It's completely fair on both teams as they have once in a life time talent on their hands. It's a bit bonkers to say, Ronaldo should change his style of play to match Messi and Barcelona's style of play.
 
Nobody said he isn't creative. The point is he is not as creative as the all time greats people try and put him up there with. Those players were able to score and create at the very highest level and they proved it. Ronaldo hasn't done so, he had a fantastic balance here 06/07 does stick out the passes he used to play through. I feel as he as he has gotten older he has become goal obsessed now.

Regardless they are two of the best I have seen

I feel they both drive each other on, but for me Ronaldo is chasing Messi while Messi is chasing history. I don't think he can NEVER be good as Messi but he is 29 now, as long as he is scoring goals and winning trophies does he really even need to change?
 
fishfingers15 said:
I've edited my post, but it his line of 'his ambition is to outscore Messi' didn't sound like a question at all. All I'm saying is, there is a rivalry between Messi and Ronaldo and Ballon D'or matters to both the players. Messi plays in a Barcelona team in a system that worked well for them and they play to his strengths as well, as Real Madrid play to Ronaldo's strengths. It's completely fair on both teams as they have once in a life time talent on their hands. It's a bit bonkers to say, Ronaldo should change his style of play to match Messi and Barcelona's style of play.
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Fair point, seem's I skimmed his post perhaps, apologies, all in all I agree with your point.
 
JaffyJoe said:
Nobody said he isn't creative. The point is he is not as creative as the all time greats people try and put him up there with. Those players were able to score and create at the very highest level and they proved it. Ronaldo hasn't done so, he had a fantastic balance here 06/07 does stick out the passes he used to play through. I feel as he as he has gotten older he has become goal obsessed now.

Regardless they are two of the best I have seen

I feel they both drive each other on, but for me Ronaldo is chasing Messi while Messi is chasing history. I don't think he can NEVER be good as Messi but he is 29 now, as long as he is scoring goals and winning trophies does he really even need to change?
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Why does he need to be as creative? Few of these all time greats people talk about but rarely watched regularly could match Ronaldo's goalscoring. How many of them where as good in the area Ronaldo excels?
 
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