Not yet he isnt, as others have mentioned, Di Stefano. Di Stefano's record and history and status at RM will take a bit more from Ronaldo to eclipse.
Cristiano Ronaldo
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Not yet he isnt, as others have mentioned, Di Stefano. Di Stefano's record and history and status at RM will take a bit more from Ronaldo to eclipse.
He needs to win 1 European Cup with them for a start. Di Stefano has 5.
It's funny. He was well on his way to being the greatest United player of all-time before he left us, and in less than five years, he's now considered by some to being the greatest Madridista of all-time.
Like Zidane, he really won't be truly appreciated until his playing days are over. People rate him, but we won't see numbers like his (and Messi's) for years and years.
That makes me sad.
Winning the CL back in his days is not the same IMO, even though it was a terrific achievement winning the very first 4 or 5
Whatever it is Cristiano's trophy haul at Madrid is pretty poor considering the sheer volume of goals he's scored. Most of that isn't down to him but memorable players are usually associated with memorable teams and he's yet to be part of one at Madrid.
There's no point rushing to judgment on these things. He'll be gone soon enough, that's the nature of the game. Then he'll have a context. Right now, he'd be the best player in a team that's going through what by their standards is a barren spell and without a CL there will always be a, "could have been," included in every discussion.
In terms of the stats, we're now four and a bit years into his career there and he's joint fourth in their all time Liga scorers list, equalling Hugo Sanchez and trailing Santillana, Di Stéfano y Raúl. He could pass them within a couple of years. Whatever happens next he'll always be in the conversation.
Enjoy it while it lasts. I said when he was with us that he was the best I'd seen since Best. I had to wait over 30 years for that to happen. I still enjoy watching him play, I'm just not so bothered about the results.
Incidentally he limped off last night due to a "bocadillo" in the thigh muscle. It turns that he wasn't attacked by a sandwich, this is apparently the phrase used for that bruise you get when someone's knee hits you hard. Weirdly it's the same injury, at the same ground that Messi got about two months ago. Raro? Claro.
In terms of the stats, we're now four and a bit years into his career there and he's joint fourth in their all time Liga scorers list, equalling Hugo Sanchez and trailing Santillana, Di Stéfano y Raúl. He could pass them within a couple of years. Whatever happens next he'll always be in the conversation.
Enjoy it while it lasts. I said when he was with us that he was the best I'd seen since Best. I had to wait over 30 years for that to happen. I still enjoy watching him play, I'm just not so bothered about the results.
Incidentally he limped off last night due to a "bocadillo" in the thigh muscle. It turns that he wasn't attacked by a sandwich, this is apparently the phrase used for that bruise you get when someone's knee hits you hard. Weirdly it's the same injury, at the same ground that Messi got about two months ago. Raro? Claro.
Zidane's trophy haul at Madrid was not too great either. One CL and One La LIGA IIRC.
Come off it now.
Di Stefano almost single handily turned Madrid from a minor Spanish club into the biggest team in the world.
But Zidane will always have that goal in the final against Leverkusen: the best player winning the CL, scoring the greatest goal of all-time.
Ronaldo needs that signature moment. The closest he's come so far is scoring at the Camp Nou on the way to winning La Liga. Needs a moment like that in Europe.
His individual performance levels at Madrid easily surpass his time at United, but in terms of trophies, his most productive time was here. Funny how things pan out.
Eh... That was Bernabéu's doing, Di Stefano was the first (and best) of their first Galactico policy. He was by no means the only great player they had at the time.
Right, Puskas happened to be another all time great they had at that time.
Di Stefano was brilliant, and I still consider him the best player in Madrid's history, but your post is inaccurate.
Really? Maybe slightly exaggerated, but he turned a decent club into the best team in Europe long before the other superstars came along. It's as close to single handedly as you can get, imo.
When di Stefano joined Real, they had overall won 2 league titles, the last one more than 20 years ago. He turned them instantly into a domestic superpower, a few signings the next summer helped defending the title and then 2 years later winning the first European Cup (Gento probably the most important one), but he was still the only real superstar. Kopa joined the next season (di Stefano played him and that brilliant Stade Reims team in the first European Cup final), Puskas after they already won 3 consecutive European Cup.
Di Stefano carried that team in the first years like probably no one else in the history of the game could have, they were the best team in Europe before they became the first Galacticos because of him, they already won the Coupe Latine in 55 against Reims with Milan finishing 3rd, which were also the 3 best teams in the first European Cup in 56. You don't even have to watch games of that time, it's enough to read about it to know that saying for example Puskas was important to Real making it to the top is completely wrong. They peaked as a team full of superstars, of course, but they already were outstanding before.
'Single handedly'?
Come off it. Everyone knows the impact that Bernabeau had too.
Come off it. Everyone knows the impact that Bernabeau had too.
He didn't say he won all those trophies single-handedly, he said he turned them into the biggest club in the world, I still don't see what's wrong with that. Of course Bernebeau was crucial by first signing di Stefano and then establishing the club at the top by bringing in more superstars, but Real became that attractive mainly because of di Stefano.
If you say so, I'd say there was atleast more than one contributing factor, though De Stefano was crucial.
All talk of 'single handedly' in football is usually rubbish, like when it was asserted after Ronaldo scored 4 goals in two play off games to take Portugal to the WC that he did it single handedly, clearly not true and it rarely is.
All talk of 'single handedly' in football is usually rubbish, like when it was asserted after Ronaldo scored 4 goals in two play off games to take Portugal to the WC that he did it single handedly, clearly not true and it rarely is.
Yeah, agree with that, but I usually don't take single-handedly literally but more as a synonym for 'he was the one main contributing factor and no one in the world could have done the same'. And the best examples (maybe the only ones?) at the top level are di Stefano's first 3 years at Real and Maradona's performance in 86.
Wait, people actually think Ronaldo didn't show up in the big games last year? 
Wait, people actually think Ronaldo didn't show up in the big games last year?
As sooon as they mention Dortmund or against us, they are the main reasons as to why he doesn't turn up in big games.
I think I've read somewhere that Di Stefano was actually going to sign for Barcelona in stead of Real Madrid, but Franco threatened the chairman of Barcelona. So without Franco, Di Stefano might have been a Barcelona legend. I would argue that it's Franco and Bernabeu who created the context in which Real Madrid was able to become a powerhouse in European football. Di Stefano was a result of that.
In the context of things though, were Real Madrid's competition in the 1950s as competitive as Real Madrid's competition now?
I wasn't there so that's a genuine question. Was it easier for Di Stefano to step in and elevate them than it was for Ronaldo who came into a league with what many regard as the best team ever?
Were the players around Di Stefano better than those around Ronaldo? Was the management superior? Were the politics as influential as they are today with what happens on the pitch? Again genuine questions, I'm a 90's kid.
I wasn't there so that's a genuine question. Was it easier for Di Stefano to step in and elevate them than it was for Ronaldo who came into a league with what many regard as the best team ever?
Were the players around Di Stefano better than those around Ronaldo? Was the management superior? Were the politics as influential as they are today with what happens on the pitch? Again genuine questions, I'm a 90's kid.
But surely we should judge players on how they did on the pitch and not on how they got there? Without Franco maybe Ronaldo would have dreamed of joining Atletico, a club that could have become an international superpower without Real and now be an Atletico legend or still be at United, we don't know, so it doesn't really matter.
just imagine him staying here and producing the same kind of performances as @ Madrid...I think it's safe to say we'd have won a couple more trophies to say the least.
Back on topic, his record at Madrid speaks for itself, for a player to have an average higher than a goal a game at a club is just incredibile. Just think about that, nevermind the fact that he's as perfect a player as I've ever seen, seriously there isn't a single aspect of his game which you could pick out and say something along the lines of: "He's poor at this.", at best his worst attributes are mediocre.
Back on topic, his record at Madrid speaks for itself, for a player to have an average higher than a goal a game at a club is just incredibile. Just think about that, nevermind the fact that he's as perfect a player as I've ever seen, seriously there isn't a single aspect of his game which you could pick out and say something along the lines of: "He's poor at this.", at best his worst attributes are mediocre.
He signed for both clubs and each club controlled his registration according to a different seller team / national FA. The Spanish FA ruled he should do a season at Real Madrid, then one at Barcelona. A year or so earlier Kubala had been through a similar process, but Real Madrid were told they wouldn't be allowed to register him as he was Hungarian. Barcelona were allowed to sign him and get him Spanish citizenship. The politics of football under a dictatorship are not nearly so straightforward as BarcaGood Vs MadridBad explanations would have you believe.
Doesn't affect Di Stefano's status as a Madrid legend though. Any more than it affects Ronaldo's status that he's only there because Madrid were able to throw a truckfull of money at United.
He didn't turn up vs Utd ???
Real Madrid offered to loan him to us after the air disaster apparently, imagine him in a utd shirt!
It's really difficult to judge the squads back then in comparison to today, everything I know about that time is from what you can read, what my father told me and the few videos you can watch. From what I know, quality players stayed longer at their own club, often never moved. You rarely had teams like today, full of international superstars. So even at the big clubs often enough only a few players were brought in and the rest needed to make it work. You also rarely had a lot of squad depth. Let's not forget that substitutions weren't allowed until the late 60's if I remember correctly. So quality players stayed at their clubs and only with great nationalteams we saw teams full of superstars. That means that the difference in quality between top clubs and small clubs wasn't as big as it is today, at least that's my opinion (and it's no surprise that records of points totals were broken in most top leagues in the last 10 years). But it was a bit easier to stand out between the top teams and if one team got it right (often because of a great youth generation) they were superior to the other top teams for a while and it showed in the competitions. So I'd say it was more competitive between the top tier and the rest but less inbetween that top tier. That's also why the top tier often changed until the 80's when money became more important and certain big clubs established themselves because of it.
So I'd say it was obviously easier for di Stefano to turn Real into that superteam than it would be for Ronaldo (or anyone else) today, I actually think it's impossible today. You probably can't have that big an impact as a single player at a top club. But that shouldn't take anything away from what he did and achieved. Probably that's also why Maradona really failed to turn Barca into a truely great team (he really was a whiny annoying bitch in his 2 years there) but was brilliant in turning mediocre sides into title challengers. In a team full of superstars you rarely get away with that one 'I want to do it all' player, who outshines everyone else.
Can't really comment on the politics back then, but as far as I know politics and also the status of superstars were always highly influential at Spanish clubs. Pretty sure jojojo knows more about all of that than I do.
That's what has been said, go back some pages and a couple have been saying it. Not me personally of course, he bloody put us out of the compeition with his goals.
It's mental though, I'm sure it comes from Jones having done a good job in both legs but it still didn't stop Ronaldo from being dangerous and scoring important goals.
He did turn up, but his overall performance wasn't that great which some - myself included - said.
Overall performance matters little when he ends up scoring in both legs.
This. I tought we handled him quite well in those two matches, well as well as you can handle someone like him. He still scored two goals, says it all really. BPITW.
Ronaldo's on the way to rival Cruyff for best European player of all time. In my book, he's already superseded legends like Best, Platini, van Basten and Zidane. Haven't watched Eusebio and can't comment on how he fares compared to the latter. Talent wise, he wouldn't make my top 5 of European players but his incredible determination and will to improve furher have made him an all time great.
Apart from the fact that he scored crucial goals on both legs, which was all that matters.
Yep, but I didn't read anything about people saying he didn't turn up against us. The he doesn't turn up in big games is ridiculous, whoever mentioned that.
Reading Sid Lowe's book cemented it for me. Yes Bernabeau built the 90000 capacity stadium, which was hugely ambitious at the time, but Di Stefano was the decisive player. Barcelona had a great team at that time with Lazlo Kubala, if Di Stefano went there Madrid would never have won those 5 European cups. And that's what separates them from everyone else.
Brilliant post. Everything I wanted to express and more
This thread depresses me. Comments like this depress me further.
Better than Platini, Beckbenbuar, Puskas, Best, Eusebio, Muller, Charlton, Van Basten, Zidane, Gullit? Jesus wept.
There are so many others who have a case that it'd be too much effort to list them all.
I really hope Ronaldo does something of note on the grand stages before his career is up to make debate more valid; it'd certainly make this thread more interesting.
I'm even not a Ronaldo fan. But the consistency with which he is scoring 50 + goals a season is unparalleled in European football history. And he is much more than just a goal poacher. He is certainly the most complete European forward ever. For instance, he is much more two-footed than van Basten and more pacy as well. He is a much better header of the ball and a much better goalscorer than both Cruyff and Best. He is a much better dribbler than Muller, etc.
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