Cristiano Ronaldo

[Danny1982]

I think he's the most deserving simply because of this season. People keep going on about 2013 as a whole but I don't think he was any better than Messi (when he was fit) or Ribery for the most part of last season. This season with Messi being out of form and unfit you have to say Ronaldo's consistency has gave him the edge.

Until about 3 weeks ago, Ronaldo had 14 goals in 12 games, and Messi had 12 goals in 11 games (for the new season)..

Ronaldo's clear superiority has really been mainly in the last 3 weeks or so (not brilliance, superiority). Agreed it's the last three weeks before the matter gets decided, which obviously means that it will play an important factor psychologically, but imo, they were still only 3 weeks of a whole year, and 3 weeks that weren't even at a crucial stage of the season..

Let alone the fact that not only Real Madrid failed to win any trophy last season, they are even sitting in third place in La Liga this season as well, so far..

 

[Rado_N]

It's seriously frigging stupid to base an award on a calendar year.

 

[mic.m]

Football at this level is about winning trophies and about big performances in big games. I've always felt the Ballon D'or award should be a reflection of the best team in the world. IMO it should go to the most outstanding player in that team. However there is no clear criteria and that is why at times you have a Cannavaro ahead Ronaldinho (2006) or Messi ahead of Sjneider(2010) or Ronaldo(2012). I love Ronaldo but we can't just ignore Bayern's achievements and Ribery's part in all of that success. Sometimes I feel the award is simply a popularity contest and sentimentality plays a part in choosing the winner.

 

[IhabX7]

Football at this level is about winning trophies and about big performances in big games. I've always felt the Ballon D'or award should be a reflection of the best team in the world. IMO it should go to the most outstanding player in that team. However there is no clear criteria and that is why at times you have a Cannavaro ahead Ronaldinho (2006) or Messi ahead of Sjneider(2010) or Ronaldo(2012). I love Ronaldo but we can't just ignore Bayern's achievements and Ribery's part in all of that success. Sometimes I feel the award is simply a popularity contest and sentimentality plays a part in choosing the winner.

fecking hell.. Who's been the better player Ronaldo or Ribery? It cannot be any simpler. Teams get their awards, that's the League trophy or Champions league trophy etc. This award is for the best individual performer of 2013, and Ribery doesn't come close to Ronaldo.

 

[Raoul]

Football at this level is about winning trophies and about big performances in big games. I've always felt the Ballon D'or award should be a reflection of the best team in the world. IMO it should go to the most outstanding player in that team. However there is no clear criteria and that is why at times you have a Cannavaro ahead Ronaldinho (2006) or Messi ahead of Sjneider(2010) or Ronaldo(2012). I love Ronaldo but we can't just ignore Bayern's achievements and Ribery's part in all of that success. Sometimes I feel the award is simply a popularity contest and sentimentality plays a part in choosing the winner.

Why should a team's perforamnce matter to an award that is for an individual. It seems utterly counterintuitive.

 

[Ish]

I mean, I literally said I think Ribery has had the best season. But he's not the best player, so the award for being the best player shouldn't go to him.

I still don't quite understand your point RB. If you agree that Ribery had the best season - i.e. better then both "Cressi" then by virtue, surely he was the "best player" - that period under discussion. Regardless whether or not he's actually a better player then them. (which he's not).

 

[JaffyJoe]

Some people look beyond Ronaldo's stats. He will always rack up crazy stats but they only really matter within the context of what he achieved. If he had won La Liga it would be more of a debtae. He won NOTHING last season. Messi won a title and was as good as Ronaldo at least. Ribery while as an individual player is not on that level, he was a key part in his team winning the treble, he is Bayern's best player and he has had a great year, he is a worthy winner. He has played as well as he can. The way you go on about it should be Ronaldo or Messi every season. Ronaldo has only separated himself from Messi the last 3-4 weeks, that is not a reason for him to win the Ballon d'or which is given for a calendar year. I agree with Chester, giving out the award after the major tournaments so August makes more sense.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Realistically there must be some objective criteria. And there aren't too many of these beyond trophies won. You could say handing out individual awards in a team sport makes little sense to begin with - and I for one would largely agree with that. It's mainly another media event, nice for the sponsors and for massaging the ego of whoever wins it. But if you insist on doing so, well - the only realistic approach is to pay attention to who has won what, playing a pivotal role for his team, etc.

 

[Ryan's Beard]

I still don't quite understand your point RB. If you agree that Ribery had the best season - i.e. better then both "Cressi" then by virtue, surely he was the "best player" - that period under discussion. Regardless whether or not he's actually a better player then them. (which he's not).

You agree that he's not actually a better player, that's my point. He (and crucially his team) had a better season than both Ronaldo and Messi but that shouldn't mean he wins an award for being individually the best player in the world over either of those two simply because they're both better footballers than him. He had a better season so he won more medals and trophies than either Ronaldo or Messi. The fact you've put "best player", in quotation marks, is my point. He's not literally the best player, so this award isn't for him.

 

[mic.m]

Why should a team's perforamnce matter to an award that is for an individual. It seems utterly counterintuitive.

Why should a team's perforamnce matter to an award that is for an individual. It seems utterly counterintuitive.

No it's not football is a team sport. Why should Ribery be ignored when his brilliance contributed to his team winning the treble. Ronaldo is a great player but his brilliance did not translate into trophies for Real Madrid. Whilst he has been great this season that is not a guarantee that Real will win trophies. Stats have to be used within a context.

 

[Ryan's Beard]

No it's not football is a team sport. Why should Ribery be ignored when his brilliance contributed to his team winning the treble. Ronaldo is a great player but his brilliance did not translate into trophies for Real Madrid. Whilst he has been great this season that is not a guarantee that Real will win trophies. Stats have to be used within a context.

Yes but this is an individual award. It's supposed to be for the best player on the planet. I think it's a pretty silly award, really, but as it stands it should go to the best football player. That simply isn't Ribery.

 

[Pink Moon]

Yes but this is an individual award. It's supposed to be for the best player on the planet. I think it's a pretty silly award, really, but as it stands it should go to the best football player. That simply isn't Ribery.

To be fair, if that was the criteria Messi would win it every year. I think when you're the best player in the best team that won everything before them then your inclusion is more than justified. If he wins it he'll have earned it. Not as good a player as Messi or Ronaldo but had an awesome season.

 

[Raoul]

No it's not football is a team sport. Why should Ribery be ignored when his brilliance contributed to his team winning the treble. Ronaldo is a great player but his brilliance did not translate into trophies for Real Madrid. Whilst he has been great this season that is not a guarantee that Real will win trophies. Stats have to be used within a context.

Team sport but indivudul award. There's a significant difference. Whether something translates into trophies or not is irrelevant. Its an individual award. Teams are collectives of individuals, and their successes or failures aren't tidily reducible to individual players.

 

[Pink Moon]

If the team success is pretty much irrelevant why was everyone outraged when Messi beat Sneijder to the award in 2010?

 

[Ryan's Beard]

If the team success is pretty much irrelevant why was everyone outraged when Messi beat Sneijder to the award in 2010?

I wasn't outraged. Messi is better than Sneijder.

 

[Ryan's Beard]

I think it's stupid to have an individual award in a team sport, especially on as team orientated as football, but since we do have one it's not fair to bend the criteria so that people we think deserve an award can win it.

 

[Pink Moon]

I wasn't outraged. Messi is better than Sneijder.

A lot of people on here were though.

 

[bosnian_red]

If the team success is pretty much irrelevant why was everyone outraged when Messi beat Sneijder to the award in 2010?

Probably because Sneijder led Netherlands to the finals of the world cup as well as the treble. I wasn't outraged though, as Messi is amazing, but Sneijder deserved it that year because of his performances for both club and country.

 

[Ryan's Beard]

Some sort of "MVP" award that awards the player who brought his team the most success or something would probably be a good idea. Ribery would walk that one this year.

 

[Nighteyes]

If the team success is pretty much irrelevant why was everyone outraged when Messi beat Sneijder to the award in 2010?

Messi quite comfortably deserved the award that year as he has in each of the last 4 years and were he to win it again I doubt there would be many complaints. Ribery winning it would be a joke as he's quite clearly not the best player in the world and hasn't been over the last 12 months. Sneijder winning it would have been an even bigger joke

 

[MrMarcello]

I lost all my respect and interest for the Ballon D'Or when this trophy got merged with the FIFA shitty trophy. The way how people vote is a farce and very likely the one who deserves it doesn't win. Sneijder wasn't even in top 3 in 2010 which was madness, Milito wasn't even in top 23 which is even more ridiculous.

I hope that Ribery gets it this year but I don't think he will.

It goes further back when Keane was nowhere near top 10 from 1999-2001 when he was the inspiration for and the best player of Manchester United. Beckham was the bigger hype and global recognition. The award has a been joke almost since it's inception.

 

[Pink Moon]

Messi quite comfortably deserved the award that year as he has in each of the last 4 years and were he to win it again I doubt there would be many complaints. Ribery winning it would be a joke as he's quite clearly not the best player in the world and hasn't been over the last 12 months. Sneijder winning it would have been an even bigger joke

I agree with that. I thought it was outrageous how many people felt Sneijder deserved it.

 

[Raoul]

Messi quite comfortably deserved the award that year as he has in each of the last 4 years and were he to win it again I doubt there would be many complaints. Ribery winning it would be a joke as he's quite clearly not the best player in the world and hasn't been over the last 12 months. Sneijder winning it would have been an even bigger joke

Pretty much agree with this. Having someone win the award based on team performance would be quite farcical. Is Frank Ribery better at football than Cristiano Ronaldo or Leo Messi ? Of course not.

 

[mic.m]

The irony of this is that I've seen many interviews in which players ( Messi and Ronaldo included) explicitly said they were more concerned with the success of the team as a whole than their own individual greatness. How many times have you seen players say they couldn't have done it on their own? Every interview it's always "We played great as a team. My teammates, the coaches are bringing the best out of me". Why do we never see players say "I'm the best in the world. Without me this would be a midtable team"?

 

[Ryan's Beard]

The irony of this is that I've seen many interviews in which players ( Messi and Ronaldo included) explicitly said they were more concerned with the success of the team as a whole than their own individual greatness. How many times have you seen players say they couldn't have done it on their own? Every interview it's always "We played great as a team. My teammates, the coaches are bringing the best out of me". Why do we never see players say "I'm the best in the world. Without me this would be a midtable team"?

Firstly, that isn't irony.

Secondly, even if a player genuinely did think that, they'd be pretty unlikely to say it, wouldn't they?

Thirdly, that is irrelevant to the point. It is an individual award. We know players would rather win team awards like the World Cup or the European Cup, but this isn't one of those. It's an award for the individually best player in the world.

 

[MrMarcello]

That's just being gracious in receipt of awards.

 

[mic.m]

Firstly, that isn't irony.

Secondly, even if a player genuinely did think that, they'd be pretty unlikely to say it, wouldn't they?

Thirdly, that is irrelevant to the point. It is an individual award. We know players would rather win team awards like the World Cup or the European Cup, but this isn't one of those. It's an award for the individually best player in the world.

If it's not irony then it's hypocrisy. To end this debate FIFA should just say "We don't give a feck how well your team does. This is a slugfest to see who is the most awesome footballer in all of the earth".

 

[Ryan's Beard]

If it's not irony then it's hypocrisy. To end this debate FIFA should just say "We don't give a feck how well your team does. This is a slugfest to see who is the most awesome footballer in all of the earth".

You do realise, of course, that that is exactly what the Balon D'Or is, right?

 

[Relevated]

Don't follow me, feck off.

 

[Rowem]

I watched the game again. The first half of the first leg was best consistent period he had throughout the 180 mins - he was central to Real Madrid's attacking build-up play and he was very good at it, but other than that, his performances over both legs was decent at best.

What does that have to do with what I said about Jones and the midfield?

 

[Chesterlestreet]

The trouble with an individual award is that it will always be extremely difficult to compare the year-long performance of one player in a specific set of circumstances (and leagues/tournaments) to another player in another specific set without putting any emphasis on what his team have accomplished within the same time frame.

You can give a player an MVP style award within a team, and at a bigger push within a particular league/tournament (though this too will be difficult without factoring in how well the player's team did) - but beyond that it becomes very subjective very fast. If the main criterium is sheer capability your Ronaldos and Messis would win hands down even in an underwhelming year for them. If the award is about nothing beyond confirming a consensus regarding who is the best player in the world - well, it's kinda pointless. It's pointless enough as it stands, but it would be plain silly in the latter case.

 

[Ryan's Beard]

If the main criterium is sheer capability your Ronaldos and Messis would win hands down even in an underwhelming year for them. If the award is about nothing beyond confirming a consensus regarding who is the best player in the world - well, it's kinda pointless. It's pointless enough as it stands, but it would be plain silly in the latter case.

This is only being brought up and argued about now though because we have a situation where Ronaldo or Messi could rightfully win it season after season. In past years the winners have been fairly spread around since deserving candidates for the best player in the world were more closely matched. It's just that now we have a situation where two players are quite clearly a class above the rest and are maintaining that level consistently season after season. We can't just say "oh it's boring if Messi keeps winning it, let's give it to someone else". Messi (or Ronaldo) would deserve it, they're the best players. In the past when Kaka, Dinho, Rivaldo etc were the best player that year, they won it. Now the candidates are much more rarefied but it's not right to suddenly move the goalposts because we're bored of Messi winning it.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

This is only being brought up and argued about now though because we have a situation where Ronaldo or Messi could rightfully win it season after season. In past years the winners have been fairly spread around since deserving candidates for the best player in the world were more closely matched. It's just that now we have a situation where two players are quite clearly a class above the rest and are maintaining that level consistently season after season. We can't just say "oh it's boring if Messi keeps winning it, let's give it to someone else". Messi (or Ronaldo) would deserve it, they're the best players. In the past when Kaka, Dinho, Rivaldo etc were the best player that year, they won it. Now the candidates are much more rarefied but it's not right to suddenly move the goalposts because we're bored of Messi winning it.

I agree with this. But those two are - in one sense - moving the goal posts by their own performances. What would be an incredible year for someone else isn't necessarily so for Messi. Last season he scored by the bucket load and won la Liga - but many would say his new role at Barca meant the team as a whole suffered somewhat, and that he - individually - came up short when it really mattered in the CL, be it from fatigue, injury, general loss of form - or whatever. And Ronaldo didn't win anything with Real - that's a fact. So, as others have said, it wouldn't be a great injustice in my opinion to give it to Ribery: The main argument against him seems to be that he isn't really on Messi's and Ronaldo's level. He still outshone 'em, though - winning the lot and being instrumental in his side's success.

It doesn't matter to me who wins it, be it said. They're all extremely good players - and the award itself is largely pointless as far as I'm concerned.

 

[mic.m]

You do realise, of course, that that is exactly what the Balon D'Or is, right?

If that was the case why do they release a 23 man list from which the winner is chosen? We all know that 21 of the players on that list are not in the same class as Messi and Ronaldo. Why not cut the bullshit and let the voters choose between those 2?

 

[Ryan's Beard]

I agree with this. But those two are - in one sense - moving the goal posts by their own performances. What would be an incredible year for someone else isn't necessarily so for Messi. Last season he scored by the bucket load and won la Liga - but many would say his new role at Barca meant the team as a whole suffered somewhat, and that he - individually - came up short when it really mattered in the CL, be it from fatigue, injury, general loss of form - or whatever. And Ronaldo didn't win anything with Real - that's a fact. So, as others have said, it wouldn't be a great injustice in my opinion to give it to Ribery: The main argument against him seems to be that he isn't really on Messi's and Ronaldo's level. He still outshone 'em, though - winning the lot and being instrumental in his side's success.

It doesn't matter to me who wins it, be it said. They're all extremely good players - and the award itself is largely pointless as far as I'm concerned.

Definitely agree with the last part. I wouldn't mind Ribery winning it simply because I'm a big fan and I think he's at times criminally underrated. It probably wouldn't be right though, really, in terms of the award's criteria. You can't stipulate that the award goes to the best player then give it to Ribery .

Like I've said, I don't dispute that Ribery has had the best season and was certainly among the most valuable players in terms of contribution (perhaps a few Bayern fans would have their own ideas about this, maybe Alaba was an unsung hero ) but I don't think it's reason enough to say he's the best player.

If that was the case why do they release a 23 man list from which the winner is chosen? We all know that 21 of the players on that list are not in the same class as Messi and Ronaldo. Why not cut the bullshit and let the voters choose between those 2?

Seriously? I really can't think why they don't do this. I'm at a loss.

 

[Rado_N]

If that was the case why do they release a 23 man list from which the winner is chosen? We all know that 21 of the players on that list are not in the same class as Messi and Ronaldo. Why not cut the bullshit and let the voters choose between those 2?

Perhaps because the award existed before and will continue to exist after them?

 

[Ryan's Beard]

Perhaps because the award existed before and will continue to exist after them?

OH yes. Of course. That's why.

 

[adexkola]

This is only being brought up and argued about now though because we have a situation where Ronaldo or Messi could rightfully win it season after season. In past years the winners have been fairly spread around since deserving candidates for the best player in the world were more closely matched. It's just that now we have a situation where two players are quite clearly a class above the rest and are maintaining that level consistently season after season. We can't just say "oh it's boring if Messi keeps winning it, let's give it to someone else". Messi (or Ronaldo) would deserve it, they're the best players. In the past when Kaka, Dinho, Rivaldo etc were the best player that year, they won it. Now the candidates are much more rarefied but it's not right to suddenly move the goalposts because we're bored of Messi winning it.

And that's where I disagree. Sure they are consistent in putting away teams that would count a draw against Barcelona or Real Madrid as cause for celebration. That should factor into the calculations, but consider the fact that the goal of those 2 teams is to feed the ball to Ronaldo and Messi as much as possible and let them work. They are the focal points of their teams, their numbers are amazing.

However when it comes to the big games (I hate using that term), they just have not looked a class above everyone else, this year. Blame it on fatigue, coach instability, or being double marked, they have not shined when their team needed them the most (well in Ronaldo's case, until recently against Sweden). Messi didn't look like he was much better than the rest against Milan, PSG, or Bayern. Ronaldo didn't look like he was much better than the rest against us (Utd) or Dortmund, or against Atletico in the cup final. Compare that to 2009, when Messi was at the heart of everything good Barcelona did in the league and in Europe (destroying Real 5-0, us in Rome), and 2012, when Ronaldo literally dragged his team to the La Liga title. Those years they proved beyond a shadow of a doubt they were head and shoulders above the rest (although in 2012, a retarded, useless metric of "most goals in a calendar year" was invented to sway votes towards Messi).

Barcelona and Real have such advantage over other clubs both in their league and in Europe, that Messi and Ronaldo have to bring more to the table than results that are built upon that advantage. This year they haven't, not compared to what Ribery has done at least. But I doubt he cares, he won the treble and he's going to the World Cup. Likewise Sneidjer, Beckham, Keane, et al...

 

[Ryan's Beard]

And that's where I disagree. Sure they are consistent in putting away teams that would count a draw against Barcelona or Real Madrid as cause for celebration. That should factor into the calculations, but consider the fact that the goal of those 2 teams is to feed the ball to Ronaldo and Messi as much as possible and let them work. They are the focal points of their teams, their numbers are amazing.

Fair enough. As far as I can see though Ronaldo and Messi genuinely are that much better than everyone else. Picking games where they've not performed is all well and good but it's when they do perform that you see how good they are. I completely understand what you're saying about the set up etc but that does sort of imply that if you stuck Ribery (for example) in Ronaldo or Messi's place in their teams then he'd bang in just as many goals and be just as lethal as those two which I just don't think is the case.

On the flip side, Ribery fits the Bayern set up perfectly and that entire team is a well oiled machine. I'm not sure you'd get Messi or Ronaldo doing Ribery's roll in the side quite like he does, but I think realistically the inclusion of either player would probably improve them somewhat.

 

[JaffyJoe]

And that's where I disagree. Sure they are consistent in putting away teams that would count a draw against Barcelona or Real Madrid as cause for celebration. That should factor into the calculations, but consider the fact that the goal of those 2 teams is to feed the ball to Ronaldo and Messi as much as possible and let them work. They are the focal points of their teams, their numbers are amazing.

However when it comes to the big games (I hate using that term), they just have not looked a class above everyone else, this year. Blame it on fatigue, coach instability, or being double marked, they have not shined when their team needed them the most (well in Ronaldo's case, until recently against Sweden). Messi didn't look like he was much better than the rest against Milan, PSG, or Bayern. Ronaldo didn't look like he was much better than the rest against us (Utd) or Dortmund, or against Atletico in the cup final. Compare that to 2009, when Messi was at the heart of everything good Barcelona did in the league and in Europe (destroying Real 5-0, us in Rome), and 2012, when Ronaldo literally dragged his team to the La Liga title. Those years they proved beyond a shadow of a doubt they were head and shoulders above the rest (although in 2012, a retarded, useless metric of "most goals in a calendar year" was invented to sway votes towards Messi).

Barcelona and Real have such advantage over other clubs both in their league and in Europe, that Messi and Ronaldo have to bring more to the table than results that are built upon that advantage. This year they haven't, not compared to what Ribery has done at least. But I doubt he cares, he won the treble and he's going to the World Cup. Likewise Sneidjer, Beckham, Keane, et al...

Good post.