Cristiano Ronaldo

Status
Not open for further replies.
akash02 said:
Let me repeat.

Ribery is a fantastic player who deserves his nomination and has had some fantastic games in the last year. But both Messi and Ronaldo have been better than Ribery this year which is why giving the ballon d'or to Ribery is ridiculous.
Click to expand...


In my opinion, performing well in big games should count for more. I am a big fan of Ronaldo and I think he should have won the award in 2012 when Real won La Liga, however this year, he was very underwhelming in the big games in La Liga and the Champions League. It is possible to have a stormer as a player, and still be on the losing side, but against Dortmund and Manchester United he cut a very frustrated figure. I will be the first to blame Real's misfortunes on their abysmal defense, but I can't say he did all he could to lift Real when they needed him, like he did in 2012. This is not to say he doesn't perform in the big occasions, just that he didn't in the latter stages of the 2012-2013 season, when Real needed a push over the line.

Compare that to Ribery who was central in destroying Juventus and Barcelona, and provided the key assist in the final against Dortmund. Add his accomplishments in the league, and it's hard to deny him the award. I don't see how Ribery was any worse than Ronaldo (or Messi) for that matter. His role in the Bayern team wasn't to score shitloads of goals, but he did his job very well. Ronaldo's brilliant performances of late for Real and Portugal are great and all, but they don't cover up last season's shortfalls.
 
I wonder if Cal? believes Ribery is more deserving than Ronaldo this year. He won more after all.
 
adexkola said:
In my opinion, performing well in big games should count for more. I am a big fan of Ronaldo and I think he should have won the award in 2012 when Real won La Liga, however this year, he was very underwhelming in the big games in La Liga and the Champions League. It is possible to have a stormer as a player, and still be on the losing side, but against Dortmund and Manchester United he cut a very frustrated figure. I will be the first to blame Real's misfortunes on their abysmal defense, but I can't say he did all he could to lift Real when they needed him, like he did in 2012. This is not to say he doesn't perform in the big occasions, just that he didn't in the latter stages of the 2012-2013 season, when Real needed a push over the line.

Compare that to Ribery who was central in destroying Juventus and Barcelona, and provided the key assist in the final against Dortmund. Add his accomplishments in the league, and it's hard to deny him the award. I don't see how Ribery was any worse than Ronaldo (or Messi) for that matter. His role in the Bayern team wasn't to score shitloads of goals, but he did his job very well. Ronaldo's brilliant performances of late for Real and Portugal are great and all, but they don't cover up last season's shortfalls.
Click to expand...

Good post Adex.
 
Danny1982 said:
The decision wasn't taken on November 15th. The voting closed on 15th and was supposed to not include the playoffs, and only on the night Ronaldo scored the hattrick (November 19th) they decided to re-open the voting.

The FIFA excuse was "low turnout", but the fact that it took them 4 full days to realize that the "turnout was low", and the additional option they gave for people who already voted to change their choice, on the night Ronaldo scores a hattrick, makes the whole situation very suspicious..
Click to expand...

Which bit was suspicious? Reopening the voting - which Mundo Deportivo announced that morning and the rest of the Spanish press were talking about before the match, or the fact that Ronaldo scored three? You think he wouldn't have bothered scoring a hattrick if the voting had already finished?
 
NM said:
United did the treble in 99. Winning the treble doesn't necessitate winning the award.
Click to expand...

Out of interest, because the United 99 comparison comes up all the time. How do you (or anyone else) rate Rivaldo's year in 99 in comparison to Ronaldo, Messi, Ribery this year? It sounds like a lot on here believe, that no one deserves to win the Ballon d'Or other than Messi and Ronaldo because they are individually so far ahead of everyone else, so how do their performances stand up in comparison to former winners? Imo, Rivaldo in 99 had a clearly better year than anyone nominated this time, he was individually outstanding, incredibly consistent and had the titles to back it up. He dragged a far from great Barca team to the title and then went on to be the standout player in Brazil's copa win in the summer. Beckham finished 2nd at the Ballon d'Or (and was clearly ahead of 3rd place), so is a title less year like Ronaldo's really on the same level as Rivaldo's back then? Is Messi who struggled with injuries and therefore didn't have that big an impact on the team on the same level as Rivaldo at his peak?

I really want to understand it, is the gap between the '1st tier' players (Messi, Ronaldo) to the '2nd tier' now that much bigger than ever before? And why is it not important if their teams come short against other top teams, because if the gap is that much bigger, shouldn't it be easier for them to lead their teams to dominating performances against other European top teams? It really doesn't make sense to me.
 
adexkola said:
In my opinion, performing well in big games should count for more. I am a big fan of Ronaldo and I think he should have won the award in 2012 when Real won La Liga, however this year, he was very underwhelming in the big games in La Liga and the Champions League. It is possible to have a stormer as a player, and still be on the losing side, but against Dortmund and Manchester United he cut a very frustrated figure. I will be the first to blame Real's misfortunes on their abysmal defense, but I can't say he did all he could to lift Real when they needed him, like he did in 2012. This is not to say he doesn't perform in the big occasions, just that he didn't in the latter stages of the 2012-2013 season, when Real needed a push over the line.

Compare that to Ribery who was central in destroying Juventus and Barcelona, and provided the key assist in the final against Dortmund. Add his accomplishments in the league, and it's hard to deny him the award. I don't see how Ribery was any worse than Ronaldo (or Messi) for that matter. His role in the Bayern team wasn't to score shitloads of goals, but he did his job very well. Ronaldo's brilliant performances of late for Real and Portugal are great and all, but they don't cover up last season's shortfalls.
Click to expand...

In the two ties you mention, where he didn't play well he scored 3 goals. He played his part and if Higuain's wasn't so shit Real might have advanced to the finals. Not sure why he's to blame for that. Ronaldo also scored a few in the classico's last year which are Madrid's biggest games. I don't see how he hasn't done well in the big games.

Ronaldo quite simply had a better year than Ribery (as did Messi) and if Ribery wins the award it will be because he had better teammates around him, not because he was a better player.
 
I've resisted the Ballon D'Or thing because it's a fairly pointless "debate" - all I can tell you is how I'd have voted. Real voters have friendships, political (club/country) and tactical voting issues to mix in with their actual footballing verdict.

To me the fact that there's a year assigned to it means it should tell you something about the year. This stuff about "he'd still be the best if he hadn't played at all" doesn't wash with me. Nor do I think having a great year, but winning nothing needs rewarding - unless it's something truly extraordinary, like Diego Forlan's World Cup in 2010, that certainly deserved a man of the tournament award. A great player in a great team should help you win things.

So with that in mind I'd have gone:
2008 Ronaldo
2009 Messi
2010 Sneidjer? Xavi? Iniesta? - in the year of the team, it could have been any one of them
2011 Messi
2012 Ronaldo (which could have been possible until a great goalscoring run from Messi at the start of last season - I still see that as a calendar year Vs season win)
2013 Ribery - neither Messi nor Ronaldo shone at the business end of the season, whereas there was a standout team, and Ribery was one of their finest players.

And I say that as someone who loves Ron dearly, and who has done since the daft bugger showed up with spaghetti in his hair. If he wins, I'd be delighted for him, but I'd be surprised.

As for Messi, he's got a great chance next year. This injury is perfectly timed to get him the best possible chance of delivering in the key games for Barca and having a great World Cup. I'll be disappointed (but not surprised) if he wins it this year though.
 
akash02 said:
In the two ties you mention, where he didn't play well he scored 3 goals. He played his part and if Higuain's wasn't so shit Real might have advanced to the finals. Not sure why he's to blame for that. Ronaldo also scored a few in the classico's last year which are Madrid's biggest games. I don't see how he hasn't done well in the big games.

Ronaldo quite simply had a better year than Ribery (as did Messi) and if Ribery wins the award it will be because he had better teammates around him, not because he was a better player.
Click to expand...

To an extent, I agree with you, but when all things are considered, you really need to look at more then just goals. A player who assisted the winning goal is sometimes more integral then the guy at the end of the chance - unless we're talking about a great individual strike etc.

But anyway, this argument has been done to death, over and over. So no point in regurgitating.

Ribery isn't on par with Messi/Ronaldo individually of course. But his got a bigger claim then either due to the achievements of his team, to which his contribution was integral.
 
Ish84045 said:
Ribery isn't on par with Messi/Ronaldo individually of course. But his got a bigger claim then either due to the achievements of his team, to which his contribution was integral.
Click to expand...

But it's an individual award for the best player. Ribery isn't the best player. He had the best season, definitely, but that's not the same thing.
 
Ryan's Beard said:
But it's an individual award for the best player. Ribery isn't the best player. He had the best season, definitely, but that's not the same thing.
Click to expand...

But maybe he had a better season? i.e. made the telling contributions when it mattered to help his team win?

Not being the best player, doesn't mean you can't have had a better season.
 
jojojo said:
Which bit was suspicious? Reopening the voting - which Mundo Deportivo announced that morning and the rest of the Spanish press were talking about before the match, or the fact that Ronaldo scored three? You think he wouldn't have bothered scoring a hattrick if the voting had already finished?
Click to expand...

First he suggested that the voting was extended before November 15th, which wasn't true.

Second, it's suspicious to reopen the voting 4 full days after the date that was agreed on all along, especially with one of the contenders now out with injury, while the other have extra (crucial) games to play. Imagine if the situation was reversed, what would the Ronaldo fans say? Hell what would Ronaldo himself say about it?
 
kouroux said:
The official line is that it's because many countries haven't submitted their votes but then again who the feck knows right ?
Click to expand...

I know, but there are two little problems here:

1- Why did they only know that 4 days after the voting was closed? They should have seen that coming in the last days/hours before the voting was closed, in which case they could have just extended it right away, instead of re-opening it 4 days later.

2- Why would you also allow the people who already voted to change their votes? If it's all about the low turnout, then just extend the voting so that more people get to vote, right? What could have happened in the last 4 days that could make people change their votes between November 15th and November 19th?

Either way, for me it's not a big problem, however, just try to imagine if that move was affecting Ronaldo negatively how would he and his fans react.. The old good FIFA conspiracy.....
 
I think FIFA do many bizarre things.

But I also think their bizarrest decision this week was to declare the South Africa Vs Spain a null match, rather than giving SA the ranking points and spain taking the ranking hit. The reason they declared it a null match was because the FIFA official at the game told Del Bosque it would be OK to bring on an extra sub, after they'd used the real ones up. Mind you the whole ranking system, and the role of friendlies is dubious.

The point I made about the voting was simply that it wasn't reopened in response to Ronaldo scoring three, unless one of the FIFA board knew about the result in advance.

The timing certainly could benefit Ronaldo or Ribery - who both had another shot at making a statement. On the other hand, getting in paperwork from those too lazy to vote might benefit Messi. The suspicion amongst some of the press was that Ribery was doing too well and this is designed to cancel it out. We'll probably get an idea when we see who voted for who.
 
Ish84045 said:
But maybe he had a better season? i.e. made the telling contributions when it mattered to help his team win?

Not being the best player, doesn't mean you can't have had a better season.
Click to expand...

I mean, I literally said I think Ribery has had the best season. But he's not the best player, so the award for being the best player shouldn't go to him.
 
I think what some of the conspiracy theories about it being done to help Ronaldo win it are missing is that they could have already seen that Ronaldo is set to win it and realised that all the pro-Messi camps haven't bothered to vote (probably assuming Messi will win it again regardless). This way they hope to get more Messi votes to tip the balance.

fecking Illuminati.


Edit - Jojojo also makes the same point above.
 
Pexbo said:
I think what some of the conspiracy theories about it being done to help Ronaldo win it are missing is that they could have already seen that Ronaldo is set to win it and realised that all the pro-Messi camps haven't bothered to vote (probably assuming Messi will win it again regardless). This way they hope to get more Messi votes to tip the balance.

fecking Illuminati.


Edit - Jojojo also makes the same point above.
Click to expand...

I think you're just trying too hard here...

Simple, if you're Cristiano Ronaldo, would you want the voting to be re-opened or not?

If you're Messi, would you want the voting to be re-opened or not?

Answer those two questions honestly, and you have the answer..
 
I lost all my respect and interest for the Ballon D'Or when this trophy got merged with the FIFA shitty trophy. The way how people vote is a farce and very likely the one who deserves it doesn't win. Sneijder wasn't even in top 3 in 2010 which was madness, Milito wasn't even in top 23 which is even more ridiculous.

I hope that Ribery gets it this year but I don't think he will.
 
Rado_N said:
Wait, you actually think it's been done to help Ronaldo win?

Seriously?
Click to expand...

I'm not claiming to know the FIFA motives here, but I'm saying if it was the other way around, then we would never hear the end of that story from Ronaldo's fans, and Ronaldo himself.
 
Rado_N said:
But it's not the other way around, and yet here we are hearing from you.

Go figure.
Click to expand...

And you comparing mentioning it like that, only by me really (which is why I mentioned it), to the fuss that is made whenever anything extremely minor affects Ronaldo negatively? I haven't even spelled the word conspiracy regarding this matter...

Please.
 
Danny1982 said:
And you comparing mentioning it like that, only by me really (which is why I mentioned it), to the fuss that is made whenever anything extremely minor affects Ronaldo negatively? I haven't even spelled the word conspiracy regarding this matter...

Please.
Click to expand...
Nor are you insinuating such a thing...
 
Vato1979 said:
Nor are you insinuating such a thing...
Click to expand...

I never said I think it was a conspiracy. I merely pointed out to the fact that it was a little bit suspicious, and that the net outcome of that decision helped Ronaldo, and hurt Messi. Am I wrong?

Second, can you be honest with me here Vato? If it was the other way around, Messi was in Ronaldo's place and Ronaldo was in Messi's place, what would you have said if the same decision was taken by FIFA? And what would Ronaldo have said? This is the main point I'm making here..
 
Bollocks award anyway, always has been. But this one is even worse than the old Ballon d'Or. Letting coaches and captains vote is pointless - and the more involved FIFA is in anything, the more it smells of corruption and backroom shenanigans.
 
Danny1982 said:
I never said I think it was a conspiracy. I merely pointed out to the fact that it was a little bit suspicious, and that the net outcome of that decision helped Ronaldo, and hurt Messi. Am I wrong?

Second, can you be honest with me here Vato? If it was the other way around, Messi was in Ronaldo's place and Ronaldo was in Messi's place, what would you have said if the same decision was taken by FIFA? And what would Ronaldo have said? This is the main point I'm making here..
Click to expand...
Honestly? I wouldn't have given a flying feck as I do about the whole award.

Don't get me wrong though, I'd prefer Ronaldo to win it over the others but it's not something I deeply care about.
 
Robben made the key contributions where it mattered most for Bayern. Give it him imo. Had they just won the double and lost to Dortmund on pens, Ribery probably wouldn't even be in the top 5. It's insane how these things are done. Though Lewandowski probably would of been in the top 3 instead thanks to his 4peat.
 
2012 was Ronaldo's year, but Messi won. That year it was Ronaldo vs Messi, nobody else had stood out. Fans will point to Messi winning in 2012 to justify Ronaldo winning now. That has really thrown the whole thing out of wack. You can make a case for all 3, Ronaldo being the least deserving imo.
 
JaffyJoe said:
2012 was Ronaldo's year, but Messi won. That year it was Ronaldo vs Messi, nobody else had stood out. Fans will point to Messi winning in 2012 to justify Ronaldo winning now. That has really thrown the whole thing out of wack. You can make a case for all 3, Ronaldo being the least deserving imo.
Click to expand...
Less so than Messi? You know this season so far counts aswell, right?
 
Vato1979 said:
Less so than Messi? You know this season so far counts aswell, right?
Click to expand...


I do, but for me the business end of last season comfortably outweighs it. Titles aren't won in October. In that sense Messi and Ribery outperformed him. Also Messi was the same old Messi until he got his first injury. I just don't think Ronaldo finished off last season well enough on a personal level to have been the best player in the world.
 
Vato1979 said:
Less so than Messi? You know this season so far counts aswell, right?
Click to expand...


I think he's the most deserving simply because of this season. People keep going on about 2013 as a whole but I don't think he was any better than Messi (when he was fit) or Ribery for the most part of last season. This season with Messi being out of form and unfit you have to say Ronaldo's consistency has gave him the edge.
 
JaffyJoe said:
I do, but for me the business end of last season comfortably outweighs it. Titles aren't won in October. In that sense Messi and Ribery outperformed him. Also Messi was the same old Messi until he got his first injury. I just don't think Ronaldo finished off last season well enough on a personal level to have been the best player in the world.
Click to expand...


Exactly my thoughts too. Last season (though still 2013) he wasn't anywhere near the level he's playing at now so when people say he's been the best in 2013 I think it's inaccurate. He's been the best this season - by a considerable margin.
 
As far as the major leagues and tournaments in the world are concerned it would surely make more sense to hold this ceremony in August, before the start of the new season. It's certainly easier to judge a player's performance over the course of a full season. A calendar year isn't really a natural time span in football. What matters most - and rightly so - is what happens at the business end anyway. If you perform brilliantly from late August to Christmas - and then go on to finish the season horribly, not winning a single trophy and so forth - well, nobody's going to give you much credit for those first months. And I'd say, again, rightly so.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
As far as the major leagues and tournaments in the world are concerned it would surely make more sense to hold this ceremony in August, before the start of the new season. It's certainly easier to judge a player's performance over the course of a full season. A calendar year isn't really a natural time span in football. What matters most - and rightly so - is what happens at the business end anyway. If you perform brilliantly from late August to Christmas - and then go on to finish the season horribly, not winning a single trophy and so forth - well, nobody's going to give you much credit for those first months. And I'd say, again, rightly so.
Click to expand...

It's a bit messy. I'd say the award in practice runs from August of the previous year through to October of the current. Basically you get credit for the previous campaign, any summer tournaments, and a nod to your early season form. As FIFA are fannying around it with a lot more, I suspect early season form will have a bigger role to play in determining the winner.
 
This year Ronaldo has scored more goals than any other Premier league teams, so in this respect, it's either an achievement (scored more goals than 11 players put together), or we are just shite.
 
Gio said:
It's a bit messy. I'd say the award in practice runs from August of the previous year through to October of the current. Basically you get credit for the previous campaign, any summer tournaments, and a nod to your early season form. As FIFA are fannying around it with a lot more, I suspect early season form will have a bigger role to play in determining the winner.
Click to expand...

You could be right - and if this is the case it would make the award even more pointless in my opinion. If it's necessary for whatever reason to hand out an individual award, well, the only sensible thing is to give it to someone who has done something truly noteworthy - and in most cases that would mean playing an important part in winning a major trophy. Great players are made on great occasions - that's just the way it is.
 
RedRonaldo said:
This year Ronaldo has scored more goals than any other Premier league teams, so in this respect, it's either an achievement (scored more goals than 11 players put together), or we are just shite.
Click to expand...

It's an achievement. But there are other ways of recognizing that sort of achievement.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.