Cristiano Ronaldo

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Balu said:
The idea behind the tactics. I don't think you should pick out a single game to prove your point. I'd say, the main focus was on not conceding and then score enough or in enough games, to be successful, not the other way round.


I'm a bit confused, so there are several players in the team with the aim to prevent scoring, yet the sole aim is scoring? Maybe I'm out of my depth here with the language, but that really doesn't make sense to me.
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I think because the Inter you're mentioning (the one that won the treble I assume) wasn't really about catenaccio that much, one game when they were down to 10 players vs Barca at the Nou Camp has blown things out of proportion. They were an entertaining team in other matches and their final performance vs Bayern was just perfect.
Scoring goals is the sole point of football, there are many ways to go about it, preventing the other team from scoring can only increases your chances of doing so and maintaining the gap. You don't win games and trophies by parking the bus.
 
kouroux said:
I think because the Inter you're mentioning (the one that won the treble I assume) wasn't really about catenaccio that much, one game when they were down to 10 players vs Barca at the Nou Camp has blown things out of proportion. They were an entertaining team in other matches and their final performance vs Bayern was just perfect.
Scoring goals is the sole point of football, there are many ways to go about it, preventing the other team from scoring can only increases your chances of doing so and maintaining the gap. You don't win games and trophies by parking the bus.
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Sorry, man. I was of course talking about Herrera's Inter in the 60's, the 'original' catenaccio. I was trying to find an extreme example and couldn't think of a better one. Modern football tactics are usually more balanced than they were back in the day.
 
Balu said:
Sorry, man. I was of course talking about Herrera's Inter in the 60's, the 'original' catenaccio. I was trying to find an extreme example and couldn't think of a better one. Modern football tactics are usually more balanced than they were back in the day.
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Scoring more goals than the opposition. It's "than the opposition" part which you have ignored from my original post. This is of course achieved either by scoring more yourself or by restricting the opposition.
 
Bestie07 said:
Scoring more goals than the opposition. It's "than the opposition" part which you have ignored from my original post. This is of course achieved either by scoring more yourself or by restricting the opposition.
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I don't think I disagree with you, because you're saying something different than the post I quoted that I disagree with. So I haven't really ignored anything from your original post, I just don't think there's much to add.
 
:lol: feck me, this thread has taken a confusing turn.

Is scoring the sole aim of football - yeah, of course. Everything around that (defence/attack/tactics etc.) have all just evolved around this simple concept. That's the fact of the matter.

But do not confuse the GREATEST goalscorers, with the GREATEST footballers. There's a distinction which I think you guys are missing.
 
thepolice123 said:
So is Ronaldo a great GOALSCORER or a great FOOTBALLER?
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He's still a great footballer, but he's one of the greatest goalscorers of all time..

The greatest players in the game had more to their game than goalscoring, and IMO, Ronaldo just doesn't have enough set of skills to consider him one of the greatest footballers of all time.
 
Apparently goalscorers aren't footballers. And here I thought goalscoring was part of football and possibly even the most decisive part.
 
Raees said:
I think Ronaldo's general play will definitely count against him when ranking him among the greats but to call him a flat track bully is absurd, especially these days. I think he's demonstrated enough that he can impact all levels and variety of football and if there is one attribute of his which is genuinely world-class and never fails him in the big games it is his heading ability.

Is he a Cruyff, Messi etc no... he lacks the general class to his game to elevate himself to that tier of greatness... his general game isn't as sophisticated, his decision-making isn't up to that level and his entertaining game has been sacrificed alot since he went into machine mode, but he's still an effective footballer on the big stages, two bad game's against Dortmund doesn't change that. He's played well against Bayern and he's performed well in international tournaments bar Euro 2008/WC 2010... Euro 2012 was a good return to form on the international stage.
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He played against two good teams in Euro 2012 - the first v Germany and last v Spain - and was mostly invisible. He was better than the previous two tournaments but come on, that's stretching things just a tad. If I remember right Coentrao was more influential going forward in both games.
 
Brwned said:
He played against two good teams in Euro 2012 - the first v Germany and last v Spain - and was mostly invisible. He was better than the previous two tournaments but come on, that's stretching things just a tad. If I remember right Coentrao was more influential going forward in both games.
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Exactly. Ronaldo turned up for two bloody games: Holland and Czech Republic. He had two good games out of five.
 
He is the one of the very best I've ever seen, that include Maradona, Zidane, Fat Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Figo, Baggio and well Messi. I rate him just behind Maradona, and more or less same category with Messi, Zidane and Fat Ronaldo.
 
It sounds like you're talking about the Maradona of the 90s.
 
Brwned said:
He played against two good teams in Euro 2012 - the first v Germany and last v Spain - and was mostly invisible. He was better than the previous two tournaments but come on, that's stretching things just a tad. If I remember right Coentrao was more influential going forward in both games.
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Dreadful v Spain but he was fine v Germany and in general his performances were solid, compared to the utter shit he served up at the previous two tournaments. He looked threatening and by Ronaldo standards, that was fine... obviously if you start measuring him by Zidane etc he's going to suffer in comparison, he wasn't 'invisible' apart from the Spain game.
 
C. Ronaldo is way more prolific than van Basten who was arguably the finest centre forward in the history of European football. I was a van Basten fan but I'd rather have C. Ronaldo in my team. Like him or hate him but he will go down as one of the greatest European footballers of all time, probably just behind Cruyff who was a great leader and incredibly smart player.
 
RedRonaldo said:
He is the one of the very best I've ever seen, that include Maradona, Zidane, Fat Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Figo, Baggio and well Messi. I rate him just behind Maradona, and more or less same category with Messi, Zidane and Fat Ronaldo.
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Platini, Batistuta, Pele, Garrincha, Best, Muller, Di Stefano, Puskas, Romario, Just Fontaine, Beckenbauer, Eusebio plus others too numerous to mention. Probably a 90s Maradon but the early 80s. He is nowhere near the same as Messi Zidane, Ronaldo or Pele mark. Players can score as many goals as they like, but if they count for nothing then what is the point? Where are all the champions league medals/la liga medals with regards to his goalscoring prowess? His contribution is second to none, but if he had been less selfish and actually passed the ball to a striker who is in a better position to score then, maybe, just maybe Real Madrid might have won more La Ligas or Champions League. Great goalscorer, but he could win a great deal more if only he passed more instead of shooting 12 times per match. One statistic has shown that Ronaldo succeeded in burying only 12% of his shots last season I believe. Messi was at 27% or more than double with less shots. RVP was up there with 22%.
 
theres a lot of opinions in here too extreme on either side of the discussion. but come on guys, are we seriously discussing if cristiano ronaldo is a great player or not?or just a great goalscorer? he basically dominated every team in the league when with us and does much the same at real, because he scores on top of it shouldnt mean that defines him. he was literally unplayable between 06 and leaving us. hes only improved since. romanticise all you like about him being better in 06/07 than now and youre fooling yourself. he is a phenomenal player, this coming from somebody who doesnt really care much for him now, after whoring himself away from us.
 
SER19 said:
theres a lot of opinions in here too extreme on either side of the discussion. but come on guys, are we seriously discussing if cristiano ronaldo is a great player or not?or just a great goalscorer? he basically dominated every team in the league when with us and does much the same at real, because he scores on top of it shouldnt mean that defines him. he was literally unplayable between 06 and leaving us. hes only improved since. romanticise all you like about him being better in 06/07 than now and youre fooling yourself. he is a phenomenal player, this coming from somebody who doesnt really care much for him now, after whoring himself away from us.
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I agree with you SER19. However, he needs to realise that football is a team game and great goalscorer or not, his contribution is very important in the grand scheme of things. This is why I mentioned the fact that (according to some he is a great passer) he provides very few balls to his teammates who are in a better position to score than he is. Do you realise that this has happened in nearly every match. If he had passed the ball more often to the likes of Benzema, Higuain, Di Maria or Ozil in that period then, it is possible they could have scored another 20-30 goals more in all competitions. Dare I say it that, but instead of shooting into the stand rather than pass it to a teammate is not great, and over a sustained period of time could effectively lose them the title or indeed the Champions League title. I reiterate, he is a great goalscorer, but he should be less selfish and provide more, because it can be detrimental to the overall goal of the team; to win the league and/or Champions league.
 
Proud_Lyon said:
Platini, Batistuta, Pele, Garrincha, Best, Muller, Di Stefano, Puskas, Romario, Just Fontaine, Beckenbauer, Eusebio plus others too numerous to mention. Probably a 90s Maradon but the early 80s. He is nowhere near the same as Messi Zidane, Ronaldo or Pele mark. Players can score as many goals as they like, but if they count for nothing then what is the point? Where are all the champions league medals/la liga medals with regards to his goalscoring prowess? His contribution is second to none, but if he had been less selfish and actually passed the ball to a striker who is in a better position to score then, maybe, just maybe Real Madrid might have won more La Ligas or Champions League. Great goalscorer, but he could win a great deal more if only he passed more instead of shooting 12 times per match. One statistic has shown that Ronaldo succeeded in burying only 12% of his shots last season I believe. Messi was at 27% or more than double with less shots. RVP was up there with 22%.
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Yeah thats was actually the difference in them failing to win more titles,it had nothing to do with them having to go against one of the best teams ever in Barcelona or coming up against superior teams in the CL, the main reason why a team didnt won more titles and i say again a team is cause one player didnt passed the ball more, FFS some of you are desperately scrapping the bottom of the barrel to find some stuff to bitch about Ronaldo. Hes the second best player in the world and when is career is over he will be one of the all time greats.
 
Proud_Lyon said:
Platini, Batistuta, Pele, Garrincha, Best, Muller, Di Stefano, Puskas, Romario, Just Fontaine, Beckenbauer, Eusebio plus others too numerous to mention. Probably a 90s Maradon but the early 80s. He is nowhere near the same as Messi Zidane, Ronaldo or Pele mark. Players can score as many goals as they like, but if they count for nothing then what is the point? Where are all the champions league medals/la liga medals with regards to his goalscoring prowess? His contribution is second to none, but if he had been less selfish and actually passed the ball to a striker who is in a better position to score then, maybe, just maybe Real Madrid might have won more La Ligas or Champions League. Great goalscorer, but he could win a great deal more if only he passed more instead of shooting 12 times per match. One statistic has shown that Ronaldo succeeded in burying only 12% of his shots last season I believe. Messi was at 27% or more than double with less shots. RVP was up there with 22%.
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I don't see how trying to dribble your way past many players (and losing the ball many times) and then shooting from a few yards out makes a player more effective than shooting from range (and missing many times) and sometimes scoring if they end up with similar scoring stats.
 
If you shoot you lose the ball. The only way shooting is positive is if it results in a goal or results in a rebound. If you dribble you retain possession while opening up the game, sometimes for a shot, sometimes for a pass. Obviously if you can score the same amount of goals while taking less shots it's ultimately more beneficial for the team because it essentially means you surrender possession less often.
 
Brwned said:
If you shoot you lose the ball. The only way shooting is positive is if it results in a goal or results in a rebound. If you dribble you retain possession while opening up the game, sometimes for a shot, sometimes for a pass. Obviously if you can score the same amount of goals while taking less shots it's ultimately more beneficial for the team because it essentially means you surrender possession less often.
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That'a assuming you don't lose the ball or get tackled as your dribble.
 
Messi hardly ever loses it. Ronaldo sends a ridiculous number of shots into the stand pissing away good positions and possession.
 
Proud_Lyon said:
I agree with you SER19. However, he needs to realise that football is a team game and great goalscorer or not, his contribution is very important in the grand scheme of things. This is why I mentioned the fact that (according to some he is a great passer) he provides very few balls to his teammates who are in a better position to score than he is. Do you realise that this has happened in nearly every match. If he had passed the ball more often to the likes of Benzema, Higuain, Di Maria or Ozil in that period then, it is possible they could have scored another 20-30 goals more in all competitions. Dare I say it that, but instead of shooting into the stand rather than pass it to a teammate is not great, and over a sustained period of time could effectively lose them the title or indeed the Champions League title. I reiterate, he is a great goalscorer, but he should be less selfish and provide more, because it can be detrimental to the overall goal of the team; to win the league and/or Champions league.
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i agree with your point that players like that are detrimental and i agree ronaldo is guilty of it but feel you might be overstating the extent. thats just a difference of opinion i suppose though. overall, and i stress i am not a massive ronaldo fan by any means, he has been performing at a level to make him one of the top 3 footballers in the world every year since 2006/2007. its incredible. both he and messi are very rare and we should just enjoy both. when they are gone it could be a long time we see players doing what they do. i think the other ronaldo was the better player but did not meet this level of performance for this long, likewise maradona, likewise zidane. if he's still doing this in 3 years then i think he should be universally recognised as one of the best, (messi i feel is at that level already, though thats not really relevant here)
 
Raees said:
Dreadful v Spain but he was fine v Germany and in general his performances were solid, compared to the utter shit he served up at the previous two tournaments. He looked threatening and by Ronaldo standards, that was fine... obviously if you start measuring him by Zidane etc he's going to suffer in comparison, he wasn't 'invisible' apart from the Spain game.
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I was underwhelmed with his tournament, frequently losing possession, missing chances and offering little defensively. He threatened to pick things up in the middle, but squandered his opportunity in the semi.
 
He was good on the break against a Dutch side that was going gung-ho, needing two goals to go through and a mediocre Czech Republic side.

Couldn't believe people were putting him in their teams of the tournament when there were many better performers in attack.
 
thepolice123 said:
So is Ronaldo a great GOALSCORER or a great FOOTBALLER?
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Sorry for late response . My post wasn't aimed at Ron, it was just clarifying the silly a argument going around. Ron is obviously both. Not goat but up there, argument for top 10.

He's off the top 3/5 though, which I think is the argument in this thread? Possibly even 10 in some posters' view.
 
Gio said:
I was underwhelmed with his tournament, frequently losing possession, missing chances and offering little defensively. He threatened to pick things up in the middle, but squandered his opportunity in the semi.
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I agree that he was guilty of those things, but that is Ronaldo even at the best of times. I've never considered him in the class of the likes of Cryuff etc purely because he's poor in terms of his contribution to the running of the team, his decision making - a goal scoring machine yes but lacks the guile and intelligence of the true greats, that said comparing him to his own standards, I do maintain that Euro 2012 was a decent offering by his standards. WC 2010 still horrifies me, he was utterly dreadful.
 
I think what underwhelms me is his general play outside goals, he scores a TON and he is great goalscorer and a great footballer. But for me his goals are down to playing for one of the most stacked teams ever in a 2-3 team league. If you put any of the all time greats in his position you would see the same results. Too many big games pass Ronaldo by, he scores his goals, that's great when you win. But when your team is struggling to break down the opposition he is little help. Not good enough. His scoring is mainly a result of the work of his teammates. When they can't provide he struggles. He underwhelmed in Europe last year for me. He did not stand out against us or Dortmund. He played well against Barca which I give him credit for. I did not say he is a bad big game payer, just not up there with the very best.

Kaka at his peak was a big game beast so was Gerrard, I forgot to mention Drogba too. Ronaldo's best big game performances were for us 4 years and 200 odd goals ago. A decent but not great big game performance. I guess it somewhat criticizing him for what he can't do which is unfair. But if he is in the GOAT discussion it has to be brought up...
 
JaffyJoe said:
I think what underwhelms me is his general play outside goals, he scores a TON and he is great goalscorer and a great footballer. But for me his goals are down to playing for one of the most stacked teams ever in a 2-3 team league. If you put any of the all time greats in his position you would see the same results. Too many big games pass Ronaldo by, he scores his goals, that's great when you win. But when your team is struggling to break down the opposition he is little help. Not good enough. His scoring is mainly a result of the work of his teammates. When they can't provide he struggles. He underwhelmed in Europe last year for me. He did not stand out against us or Dortmund. He played well against Barca which I give him credit for. I did not say he is a bad big game payer, just not up there with the very best.

Kaka at his peak was a big game beast so was Gerrard, I forgot to mention Drogba too. Ronaldo's best big game performances were for us 4 years and 200 odd goals ago. A decent but not great big game performance. I guess it somewhat criticizing him for what he can't do which is unfair. But if he is in the GOAT discussion it has to be brought up...
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:lol:

You obviously watch zero Madrid games. When they won the league, Ronaldo carried them.

Watch more la liga and you will understand that Ronaldo simply isn't human and has been carrying Madrid this season as well when the whole team has been ass (maybe bar Isco).

Ronaldo also does it in the Champions League too, so your point about la liga are irrelevant.
 
Another goal tonight, won the game in stoppage time.

213 in 209 now.
 
Story about him writing a letter to get a person's criminal charges dropped who 'invaded' the pitch to give him a hug.

Ronaldo: Star's Support For Pitch Invasion Fan

Real Madrid football star Cristiano Ronaldo has appealed to a court not to jail a fan who ran on to a pitch to embrace him after he scored a goal.

Ronald Gjoka, 19, went on during an International Champions Cup match between Real Madrid and Chelsea in Miami in August.

Ronaldo, one of the world's highest-paid athletes handled the incident calmly, even chatting with the 19-year-old fan, and telling security officials to take it easy on him before he was taken away.
Gjoka ended up spending the rest of the day and night in cells and has now been charged with disorderly conduct and trespassing.

The Portuguese striker is asking prosecutors to drop charges against the Canadian student who could face immigration problems if the charges are not dismissed.

Ronaldo wrote in a hand-signed letter sent to the prosecutor: "I was playing at Sun Life Stadium last month when a fan entered the field.

"I understand your position and the importance of enforcing rules and laws. However, I respectfully request that you and your office reconsider this decision and dismiss the two criminal charges this young man faces," he added."We hugged, and we spoke for a while, until security arrived to escort him off the field. He was not aggressive or violent in ANY way.

Gjoka, who attends Palm Beach State Community College, is a long-time Ronaldo fan and was wearing a No.7 Ronaldo shirt when he ran on to the field after his 28-year-old idol scored the second of two goals.
The letter was sent from Ronaldo's lawyers in Portugal after Gjoka's attorney, Richard Hujber of Boynton Beach, contacted them a few weeks after the incident.

"He made my day. I grew up up fatherless and I have looked up to Ronaldo all my life," Gjoka told Reuters. "My adrenalin was running. I just said to myself 'go for it. See if you can jump the barrier and give him a hug'."

"I told him 'Ronaldo, thank you for making my life complete'."

Hujber said Gjoka, who had never been arrested before, realises he made a mistake, but believes he has paid a big enough penalty already after ending up in jail.

Terry Gonzalez-Chavez, a spokeswoman for the state attorney's office in Miami, said: "Although Mr Ronaldo's letter is very nice, it probably has no bearing on the case because it is Sun Life Stadium that is the victim in this case and they are the entity pressing charges."

Stadium spokesman Jason Jenkins told The Miami Herald: "Generally speaking, these laws are in place to protect the safety of the participants, coaches and sideline personnel by discouraging fans from running onto the field during the course of games."

http://news.sky.com/story/1150714/ronaldo-stars-support-for-pitch-invasion-fan
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JaffyJoe said:
I think what underwhelms me is his general play outside goals, he scores a TON and he is great goalscorer and a great footballer. But for me his goals are down to playing for one of the most stacked teams ever in a 2-3 team league. If you put any of the all time greats in his position you would see the same results. Too many big games pass Ronaldo by, he scores his goals, that's great when you win. But when your team is struggling to break down the opposition he is little help. Not good enough. His scoring is mainly a result of the work of his teammates. When they can't provide he struggles. He underwhelmed in Europe last year for me. He did not stand out against us or Dortmund. He played well against Barca which I give him credit for. I did not say he is a bad big game payer, just not up there with the very best.

Kaka at his peak was a big game beast so was Gerrard, I forgot to mention Drogba too. Ronaldo's best big game performances were for us 4 years and 200 odd goals ago. A decent but not great big game performance. I guess it somewhat criticizing him for what he can't do which is unfair. But if he is in the GOAT discussion it has to be brought up...
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:lol: :lol:

Do you know that Ronaldo holds the record for scoring in most consecutive El Clasicos and also holds the record for scoring in most consecutive matches at Camp Nou in Clasico? I think others have already pointed out countless other big games where he has scored and influenced. Do you think it is a joke scoring the number of goals he scores and all it takes to be just a goal-scorer? Fat Ronaldo was a striker. Why didn't he match his goal scoring record. Don't tell injuries and lifestyle Won't matter.
Put any of all time great in his position and we will see same results? His scoring is result of his teammates? You got to be kidding me:lol: Forget all the so called GOATs of yours. I say, put Messi in this Real Madrid team which has been disjointed and turbulent often since Ronaldo moved and Messi will neither get that many goalss nor influence it. Please do rest of us a favour btw... Don't bring in random names like Gerrard and Drogba into discussion if it is about GOAT. Not even kaka. Fair enough you don't agree Ronaldo to be in GOAT race, your thinking... but, keep it sane by comparing Ronaldo with players of his level than picking any name making it sound more like a WUM.

For me, Ronaldo is as much part of GOAT as Messi and is not a lesser player by any means and already a GOAT. When he will be done, the only argument can be: better/equal/lesser than Messi. That's it. Period.
 
Read somewhere that he has reached 50 goal mark for calendar year 2013 with yesterday's goal. Has done it in 45 games. Can anybody find out if it includes internationals as well?
 
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