Cristiano Ronaldo
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Explain to me why Beckenbauer is universally considered the better player than Müller?
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You're allowed to use magic btw, if it helps.
On what basis? Goals/assists/position on pitch/contribution in goals/skills capability/single handedly winning games/being all rounder in goal scoring whether it is left footed, right footed, header or free kicks/distance covered/dribbles? What is it?
If deciding GOAT is just as simple as: 'because x no. of people believe it' then there can be 100s of GOATs till now in the game at least.
There is no absolute basis. It's not science. If it was easy people wouldn't be arguing over it endlessly - as they have been doing for years and years.
It's not about deciding anything or proclaiming someone as the Goat. Let me ask you. If scoring goals was everything then why is Ronaldinho generally held in higher regard all over the world? Why is Maradona considered one of the the greatest and not Muller?
Forget universal. If you consider certain player better than other, I am just asking explanation and basis for it.
Or is it that your opinions are just based on 'universally accepted' so you will try to rationalize your thoughts that way to conform with majority and you don't have opinion of your own?
If it is just because 'universally' it is considered or accepted, then you are pretty much vindicating my point about the vague and more vague reasons which are being presented here to discredit Ronaldo.
I have given you multiple options above apart from goal scoring. All I want is to understand, all factors summed up, how is Ronaldinho better? For me a player who can't even stay professional throughout and had 3 or so years at top and then went down so dramatically is not even worth considering in the same lines of Ronaldo.
Hmmmmm. So, GOAT discussion is just a time pass. From now on, I will be flying the Giggs flag as GOAT. I have my reasons
What proof of that do you have? I for once already rate Ronaldo higher than Ronaldo and hes not close to being done,Ronaldinho had a great spell of two three years where he was great, Ronaldo his going on six or seven straight years at being great and counting.
I have given you multiple options above apart from goal scoring. All I want is to understand, all factors summed up, how is Ronaldinho better? For me a player who can't even stay professional throughout and had 3 or so years at top and then went down so dramatically is not even worth considering in the same lines of Ronaldo.
Hmmmmm. So, GOAT discussion is just a time pass. From now on, I will be flying the Giggs flag as GOAT. I have my reasons
Aye, it is. And not the worst kind either.
I think Ronaldo will be remembered as a better player then Ronaldinho, don't think it'll be particularly close either. Not sure why you think people will rate Ronaldinho so highly, he only had a few seasons at that level.
..but but Ronaldinho did everything with a grin on his face whereas Ronaldo is a selfish arrogant cnut. That makes him God compared to Ronaldo.
People may not openly agree, but Ronaldo being so confident in himself and not faking being modest like that Argentine kid at Barca is one of the reason they are always so keen to discredit Ronaldo. It is human tendency since always. If someone is confident in his abilities, it is like, "Oh yeah, feck you arrogant cnut..we majority have decided that you are not that great and as it is majority decision, it should stand"
Yeah, am quite enjoying it. Truth be told, in football I consider around 10-15 players to be worthy of being GOATs. Given the game has been played in so many countries, with so many different style of play, strategies, so many different things a player can do and then playing role wise different skills... There can't be just 1-2 or 3 players till now throughout game's history.
If that was even remotely true than Cruyff certainly wouldn't be anywhere near the top tier of players
.Ronaldinho is the better dribbler, better passer, more entertaining, big game player, nowhere near as selfish, better freekick taker
Yes that's exactly why
I'm hungry and I wish I can have some goats for lunch
Compeletelly agree.
People will always emphasize different things, even when they basically agree that so-and-so was or is an exceptionally good player. Take Ronaldo versus Ronaldinho. In terms of end product, as they say, there's no competition whatsoever. In terms of sheer footballing ability, however...but then we're straight into a much vaguer area again. Best versus Charlton? Uncommonly high ability AND longevity versus genius...and what is genius? And so on and so forth.
I'm hungry and I wish I can have some goats for lunch
Goat n' chips would be tasty right about now.
Wait, what?
If that was even remotely true than Cruyff certainly wouldn't be anywhere near the top tier of players
You are talking now about a player who played 30-35 years ago. The outlook changes. 30-35 years on, people will be amazed by Ronaldo's stats and skills videos which can match any of his contemporary and will wonder from where the hell Roanldinho/kaka come into comparison. But hey, this "but there was so much more to their game, you don't know, we have seen it" argument might still help you all then with the gullible ones.
Ronaldinho is the better dribbler, better passer, more entertaining, big game player, nowhere near as selfish, better freekick taker
Yes that's exactly why
better passer: passing stats please. Key passes, short passes, long passes everything.
more entertaining: subjective, Ronaldo is more entertaining for me. Prove otherwise if you can.
big game player: how many such big games he has influenced? Name them and in numbers. We will visit Ronaldo stats then to compare.
nowhere near as selfish: Yes, because there is a medal for ths subjective perception. Please explain how a player who costs his team by his pathetic unprofessional lifestyle is not more selfish.
better freekick taker: are their conversion stats with you for this? How many attempted, how many successful, from what distance etc?
In fairness, though - it's not hard to see what Ronaldinho brought to the table. It's not a matter of subtle nuances there - the man looked like he was born with the ball at his feet. That won't wane in thirty years - people still recognize a selection of players behind the most obvious ones from pretty much every decade, at least from the post war era.
A Ronaldo fanboi of extreme proportions I see
Yup. The genius like Ronaldinho definitely need to be appreciated, but the better one in my eyes is someone who marries that genius with professionalism to reach another level. The professionalism includes everything, from maintaining fitness level to dealing with intense scrutiny. In the end, a 9/10 player doing it for 8-10 years is any time better one than 9.5/10 one doing it for 3 or so years and then dipping to 7/10.
I hope to hell Akash takes up this challenge and sets about proving the bolded bit.
What?? I just asked proof, it is only fair Of course they will be amazed by Ronaldo's stats and skills ffs. I'm still amazed everytime I watch footage from Garrincha, Eusebio, Platini and many more. If you think individual stats and highlight videos make a player part of the GOAT tier, you're wrong though. And no, the outlook on Cruyff didn't change.
Come on Akash, Inception is the way to go.
I think Ronaldinho is massively overrated sometimes, for all his amazing talent he had a stunted career at the very top. I'd take Iniesta over him any time. Zidane was better too. Ronaldo is miles ahead and will be remembered as the better player.
I've always wanted to ask this question. Are you Indian or German? Balu is a common Indian name from where I come from.
I am just expecting every aspect to be part of consideration. 'Just shitload of goals' for a winger/wide forward is no joke. Given the way he does it is itself a big enough thing to be among one of the all time best. As I have said earlier and no point repeating it again and again, but this 'more to the game than goals' is not a valid argument to me as there is clearly lot more than goals to Roanldo's game and is pretty evident for everyone to see.
Well, there we are yet again: Emphasis, perspective, even personal preference comes into it. I think most will agree those players made more of their God given talent than Ronaldinho did. I personally, though, wouldn't call any one of them a better football player than Ronaldinho.
No, that's not what's happening. He knows Beckenbauer is better than Muller because he saw them both play live. He points to the fact that Beckenbauer is universally regarded as being better than Muller because what else can he say to someone who doesn't know the first thing about either of them?
It isn't some mystical quality that only people who know the game can see, it's quite the opposite. These players had the ability to make the game revolve around them. This is something that someone watching football for the first time can see - that's what's special. The fact that people are trying so desperately to point to Ronaldo's great achievements and skills and whatever else just sum up why he's not in that class - with the others it's impossible to ignore.
- Pelé is the one responsible for the #10 being widely regarded as the number the best player and/or playmaker wears. He's the only player to play for a side that won 3 World Cups, scoring one of the most memorable World Cup final goals in history in 1958 and then doing it again 12 years later in 1970, and he displayed a range of attacking qualities in those two World Cups alone that no-one has since matched.
- Maradona took an unremarkable team to a World Cup triumph and of the 14 goals they scored, he was the scorer or creator in 12 of them. Then he won the league with Napoli at a time when Inter were buying Brehme, Matthaus and Klinsmann and Milan were buying Rijkaard, Gullit and van Basten. Then he went to another World Cup final.
- Cruyff defined totaalvoetball, was the key player in the most breathtaking attacking team ever seen in international football and was the main man for the first team since Madrid to win 3 consecutive European Cups.
- Beckenbauer was the king of the international team that managed to beat that immaculate Dutch side in the final and the king of the last club side to win three consecutive European Cups.
- Di Stéfano was Total Football before it was even invented. He stood on a plane above the rest of his team-mates which is incredible given he won 8 league titles and 5 European Cups in just 11 years.
If people just watched these players play and saw how much they stood out in truly exceptional teams then they would understand straight away. That's the funny thing about all of this. The only people that argue Ronaldo's case are the people who haven't seen the players they're arguing against. The only people who genuinely believe Ronaldo is as good as Maradona are the people that just haven't seen Maradona play.
Where does Messi come in this stupendous list of footballers Brwned?
That's it - yes. One may speak of a certain aura when it comes to players - and it sounds like mumbo-jumbo, but watching them perform, this phenomenon is much more tangible, you can actually observe it. Especially when you watch a truly great player live and have the luxury to follow his every little touch on - and movement off - the ball.
There is no ranking on this list, I just know Ronaldo looks seriously out of place compared to them. His biggest achievement is winning one Champions League final. He's won one league title in four years at Madrid. He's been helpless any time Portugal have come up against a decent team in the last 3 major tournaments. If you watched Madrid's last game you saw what Ronaldo was all about - played a part in their equalising goal at 2-2 and then scored the winner in the dying seconds, yet barely influenced the play at any other point in the game. His end product is exceptional, but when you compare him to someone like Pelé who was similarly prolific but also affected the play in all facets of the game...well, there's a pretty clear gulf.
German. Balu is actually the German name of Baloo from the Jungle Book movie (or books, whatever you prefer) and please don't ask me why I chose that username. It actually makes sense that it's a common name in India. Never thought about it before, but if I remember correctly Kipling's work was heavily influenced by India and its culture, after all he was born there and lived there for years.
Who me? If that is what you are pointing to, it is pretty rich assumption to make. First of all, it is a sweeper vs striker comparison, very vague. Second, if still needs to be done, I would have given my opinion, but the point was 'what is the basis for GOAT not who is greater between those two.
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