There is something to what JaffyJoe is saying. I'm inclined to think it's almost irrelevant to most discussions given how much he does score, but I think if he ever starts entering the best ever debate then he surely must fall short on that count. His impact on a game aside from goals is nothing like a Messi 09/10, a Ronaldinho, etc... It's not close to that level at all. Both Messi and Ronaldo have another gear in them in theory (Messi has a couple more probably), but I do think they're so orientated towards goals that other parts of their game have suffered. Statistics and headlines are all most seem to really be arsed about so perhaps this is how they see their route to greatness.
That's how it comes across to me when I watch them play, at least. Regarding Ronaldo, if he is one of the very, very greatest (as in, top 5), then I overrated previous players when I assumed how good they were. Ronaldo is one of the best goalscorers ever but I just feel like someone in that tier should offer a fair bit more than goalscoring. Surely there should be a constant threat, brilliant link up play, a control over a game, etc - attributes that hugely and directly affect the quality of an entire team's football, that is to say. They're not really there though and he's just a phenomenal goal scorer who is merely decent/good in these respects. The performances themselves are productive but not excellent, and I think to look at entire games and see mostly goals is to fail to properly assess a 90 minute performance.
Like I say though, you could say the same about Messi at the moment to an extent, and certainly you could apply this point to someone like Bale. Bale is obviously nothing like as good as the other two but he's a classic example of what I'm going on about; his performances have newspaper headline mentality written all over them. A hugely influential player, but I think there is something to be said about the perception that he's more concerned with looking good than being good. Again, less of a problem given that he produces, but it doesn't do much for his overall performances.
That's how it comes across to me when I watch them play, at least. Regarding Ronaldo, if he is one of the very, very greatest (as in, top 5), then I overrated previous players when I assumed how good they were. Ronaldo is one of the best goalscorers ever but I just feel like someone in that tier should offer a fair bit more than goalscoring. Surely there should be a constant threat, brilliant link up play, a control over a game, etc - attributes that hugely and directly affect the quality of an entire team's football, that is to say. They're not really there though and he's just a phenomenal goal scorer who is merely decent/good in these respects. The performances themselves are productive but not excellent, and I think to look at entire games and see mostly goals is to fail to properly assess a 90 minute performance.
Like I say though, you could say the same about Messi at the moment to an extent, and certainly you could apply this point to someone like Bale. Bale is obviously nothing like as good as the other two but he's a classic example of what I'm going on about; his performances have newspaper headline mentality written all over them. A hugely influential player, but I think there is something to be said about the perception that he's more concerned with looking good than being good. Again, less of a problem given that he produces, but it doesn't do much for his overall performances.
), and I suppose there is nothing set in stone here. I just value a genuinely top quality 90 minute performance above a poor/decent/good one combined with a tap in or two, a moment of brilliance, etc... I think that has a far greater impact on the way a team plays and how it performs as a whole, and ultimately that is the sort of player I'd expect should be topping these 'greatest' lists. Ronaldo does go beyond that poor/decent/good barrier, but not often enough in my opinion. If this is what JaffyJoe is getting at, big game or otherwise, then I would agree.