They won the cl 4 years later when Ronaldo was 37, real immediately declined. 3x winners to two last 16 exits. Why would you use a cl win,4 years after he left to justify that
Cristiano Ronaldo - Much Ado About Al Nassr
- Thread starter Bastian
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They won the cl 4 years later when Ronaldo was 37, real immediately declined. 3x winners to two last 16 exits. Why would you use a cl win,4 years after he left to justify that
He deserved to play in that Real team, cause he was one of the main reasons they were dominant.
The best players deserve to play along with the best players
PSG lost to Real, the eventual winner of the CL (that swept the floor with the top PL teams last year), mostly due to Donnarumma and Marquinhos's brain fart moments in the second leg. And this year to Bayern with the perfect CL record under Nagelsmann. Losing to Bayern or Real is not comparable to losing to Lyon or 10-men Porto..
They won the cl 4 years later when Ronaldo was 37, real immediately declined. 3x winners to two last 16 exits. Why would you use a cl win,4 years after he left to justify that
Youre acting as if he continued winning after he left
They won after he left while he didn't after he left.Orcourse. And those great players (who were more successful when he left than he was) were a huge part of how dominant Real Madrid have been.
Who knows? Ronaldo himself didn't have a plan when he wanted out last summer.
Youre acting as if he continued winning after he left
He won two league titles the two years after he left, Madrid won one. Using your Messi based logic where success in France with psg is a massive achievement he did better than them. They went from 8 semi finals in a row when he was there to 2 last 16 exits the seasons after he left. What they did 4 years later with over half a billion spent isn't really relative to the immediate decline you've alluded to
He had a plan to join a top European team but nobody wanted him. He then joined a Saudi team that was 3 points clear when he joined and now trails the leaders by 3 points having played a match more. Failing in the Saudi league couldn't have been his plan, though.
Madrid had won 1 title in the prior 6 seasons when he was there and proceeded to win 2 in the next 4. As many as he won it total there.
They won the champions league 4 years after he left. If Barca win a champions league in a year or two should thay be held against Messi even though its 4 years on.
Madrid made 8 semi finals in his last 8 seasons there. Then he left and they got knocked out twice in thr last 16. You'd have to be an idiot to not see that him leaving immediately weakened them
Madrid had won 1 title in the prior 6 seasons when he was there and proceeded to win 2 in the next 4. As many as he won it total there.
Barca stopped paying the refs in 2018, that probably helped a bit
They won 2 titles in 4 years after he left after winning 2 in 9 when he was there.
They won the UCL after he left while he never sniffed another final. You'd have to be an idiot to think that's all a coincidence.
Try harder.
Cry a little harder.
They still had to wait 4 year for Vinicius to kick in in the UCL, undeniably there was a decline after Ronaldo left Madrid, and they had to wait a couple of years to recover.
I know you love Messi, but you don't have to deny obvious things like the immediate decline that Madrid had right after CR7 left.
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Well it's not a coincidence, as it turns out the other ten players on a team tend to be more important than just 1 no matter how good. Messi's won no champions leagues without xavi and inesta, though xavi managed one while Messi was injured for the whole knockout stage.
You couldn't put Ronaldo or Messi in Nottingham forest and expect a Premier league title. Juventus haven't won a champions league in nearly 30 years, Madrid have won, what, 8? 9? It's strange to use this as a slight against Ronaldo. The most successful ever European team has had some success after spending another fortune, and a team that hasn't won a champions league in 25 years and are in hot water because they had to cook their books weren't successful
Relatively in the context of the champions league in 2019.
Atleast they went out to strong teams like Real Madrid and Bayern rather than small teams like Lyon, Porto and Ajax.
But as I've said before PSG are very very poor outside the front 3 who also don't help the team off the ball. It's a problem that Messi at 35 cannot totally sort.
Yeah see the thing is I don't think Messi is responsible for making psg worse, or that Ronaldo made juventus worse, I'm trying to show him reductive it is to say player joins team and team performs worse (or the same in juventus's case) that must mean it's the players fault. Psg signed 5 players on massive contracts, they gave mbappe a ridiculous amount of power, those are reasons they've declined. Juventus were an ageing team that had gone from a midfield of vidal, pirlo, marchisio and pogba to players who weren't half as talented. That's a big factor in them getting worse, not the guy that came and scored
But tbf the guy I'm replying to is somewhat uniquely deranged when it comes to Ronaldo, I've had debates with others on here, but he's the only one I've seen try yo basically give Ronaldo zero credit for Madrid's success in the champions league
The world cup in Qatar plus the Copa America 2021 plus 2 ballond'ors totally dispell the Xavi and Iniesta theory.
Messi in his prime would absolutely be able to carry Forest such was his talent. They probably wouldn't win the league, but would be higher up the table and have somethingto build on. With Cristiano, I'm not so sure.
But anyway, I hate Cristiano for how he treated my club but respect him for his achievements.
So he was able to beat teams that wouldn't get out of the group stage in the champions league without xavi and iniesta? Again, you could say Ronaldo winning the champions league with us, 3 league titles with us in one of the most competitive leagues at the time, and a euros with Portugal points to his talent.
Again, in case you missed I don't actually think this about Messi, I'm using this deranged maniacs logic applied to Messi the way he applies it to Ronaldo.
That's just ridiculous, whatever your hatred for Ronaldo, the idea that someone who most agree, is at least the 2nd best player of the last 30 years wouldn't male a big impact on any side is ridiculous. You can see the lunacy from people looking at his juventus spell when he was out of his prime and trying to use that as evidence he can't perform out of Madrid, when there was 3 of the best seasons we've ever seen a player have at our club
Right, and Ronaldo scored juventus' 7 knockout goals in his first two seasons single handedly, the defence and other players let him down. I'm not actually trying to suggest Messi made psg worse, though he added less than they'd have hoped, I'm trying to show how ridiculous and reductive the other poster's logic is. It's like people trying to claim haaland made city worse, pep made bayern worse etc. Ignoring every other factor around juventus' aging side (including them only losing the league after appointing a total amateur as manager) and attributing every failure to ronaldonis crazy
The first RKO i have seen this year, perfect execution, it was as if Randy Orton disappeared from WWE and appeared in SA
How is that not a red?
Not sure why you keep shoehorning Messi in a Ronaldo thread. The bit about comparing Madrid to Nottjngham Forrest is the most hilarious tripe in this thread
Cry about teams "cooking their books all you want". The only facts of the matter are that Ronaldo won 1 title in his last 6 seasons with Madrid who immediately went on to win 2 in 4.
Try again and get back to me when you've managed to come up with a better argument.
Yup. Losing to Lyon, Porto, and Ajax in three consecutive seasons is a bit of a failure especially when coupled with their immediate decline domestically.
Not sure why you keep shoehorning Messi in a Ronaldo thread. The bit about comparing Madrid to Nottjngham Forrest is the most hilarious tripe in this thread
Cry about teams "cooking their books all you want". The only facts of the matter are that Ronaldo won 1 title in his last 6 seasons with Madrid who immediately went on to win 2 in 4.
Try again and get back to me when you've managed to come up with a better argument.
Ronaldo went on to win 2 in his next 2 league titles. Madrid who'd made 8 semi finals in a row went out at the last 16 twice. Why the feck would you talk about 4 years later
You also seem to be ignoring Ronaldo won a champions league before he went to Madrid with us. Though based on your posts you're probably not old enough to remember that
He also won 3 league titles in a row with us then we lost the next one to Chelsea. It doesn't really fit with your whole Ronaldo relied on Madrid for success
Ronaldo went on to win 2 in his next 2 league titles. Madrid who'd made 8 semi finals in a row went out at the last 16 twice. Why the feck would you talk about 4 years later
You also seem to be ignoring Ronaldo won a champions league before he went to Madrid with us. Though based on your posts you're probably not old enough to remember that
He also won 3 league titles in a row with us then we lost the next one to Chelsea. It doesn't really fit with your whole Ronaldo relied on Madrid for success
With a team that won 4 doubles, genius
None of the 2 titles in three seasons included a double. Ergo regressed.Meanwhile Madrid won 2 in 4 after winning 1 in their previous 6 with Ronaldo.
Sorry that it doesn't fit your "Madrid relied on Ronaldo" narrative.
With a team that won 4 doubles, genius
Meanwhile Madrid won 2 in 4 after winning 1 in their previous 6 with Ronaldo.
Sorry that it doesn't fit your "Madrid relied on Ronaldo" narrative.
What's this fecking obsessed with doubles. Madrid haven't won a copa del rey I years, who gives a shit. The two most important competitions are the league and champions league. And you tried to act like winning ligue 1 with psg was some great achievement
You still haven't addressed Ronaldo's success with us. He's won as many champions league without that Madrid squad as they have without him
Sorry mate, but not sure what this rant has to do with Juventus declining as soon as Ronaldo joined
And again, cute to see you constantly bring up Messi in a Ronaldo thread. The only people more obsessed with him than Ronaldo himself are his fanboys.
Sorry mate, but not sure what this rant has to do with Juventus declining as soon as Ronaldo joined
And again, cute to see you constantly bring up Messi in a Ronaldo thread. The only people more obsessed with him than Ronaldo himself are his fanboys.
You said Ronaldo couldn't win the champions league without Madrid but he did with us before he went there. Like I said though, your posts indicate being a teenager, or at least possessing similar level of intelligence, so you probably don't remember 2008 too well
You can carry on melting down like an emotional child all you like. It's not going to change the fact that Juventus wrnt from winning 4 doubles in a row to immediately regressing when he joined.
Immediately regressing = winning the next two leagues. This thing about doubles is so bizarre. It's telling you've now changed from Ronaldo was lucky to play with that Madrid team and couldn't win the champions league without them, to bizarre insults. There's been no emotion in any of my last posts. It seems odd to judge how well Ronaldo fared outside of Madrid, by what he did at 33 years old rather than with us. But like i said you seem to young to remember his first spell with us, you should check it out on YouTube or something, then you won't make stupid comments like claiming a player who won his first champions league before he went to real, couldn't win a champions league without benzema and modric
It really isn't to anyone with a modicum of intelligence. This seems to be too complex for you to comprehend so I'll dumb it down just a bit. You haven't addressed why Juventus regressed as soon as your idol joined them besides brushing it off as a giant coincidence.
Try to use some of those brain cells and come back with something a bit more intelligent than you have so far.
Juventus regressed because they had a massively ageing side, despite this they the won the next two titles and only lost the league after appointing someone totally useless as manager. This might be an absolute shock to you but correlation does not equal causation. Juventus were declining, Ronaldo did not accelerate that.
Pep took over a bayern side that won the treble and had reached the two previous finals of the champions league. Did he make them worse? Or did he just come up against a stronger field with ancelotti's Madrid and the MSN barca?your logic is faulty and reductive, attributing an entire season of football to one person.
So now that I've answered your questions, why did you claim Ronaldo couldn't win the champions legate without benzema and modric when he won one with us?
Did they age overnight?
Don't think so. Going from 4 doubles in a row to not sniffing one again is pretty drastic.
Address that before I address your made up claim that I said "Ronaldo cannot win a Champions League without Benzema and Modric". You're someone known to have a very loose relationships with the truth. I'm going to ask you to dig up that post. But not until you address something simple. juventus's immediate decline with Ronaldo.
Did they age overnight?
Don't think so. Going from 4 doubles in a row to not sniffing one again is pretty drastic.
Address that before I address your made up claim that I said "Ronaldo cannot win a Champions League without Benzema and Modric". You're someone known to have a very loose relationships with the truth. I'm going to ask you to dig up that post. But not until you address something simple. juventus's immediate decline with Ronaldo.
They went from 4 doubles in a row (fecking hell, this doubles obesession) to two leagues in a row because the cups are a knockout competition, they still stayed the best side in the country until they appointed pirlo. This is really odd, if a team don't keep winning a domestic cup competition forever they've declined? They kept winning the league, that would suggest not actually declining. I thought you yourself, said that you judge Messi and Ronaldo over the whole season, yet now you're judging Ronaldo on a knockout tie and ignoring the league? So which is it?
You said Ronaldo benefited from playing with those players more than vice versa because they won a champions league 4 years later with a very different supporting cast and a team that spent over half a billion in the interim. Yet Ronaldo won the champions league before he ever played with those players
The sexual tension in this thread is at record levels.
So they went from winning 4 doubles in a row to never sniffing one again, as in declined as I said?
That's my point, Sherlock.
Why are you again bringing Messi into a Ronaldo thread. I'm still waiting for you to pull up that post, as I asked you. Won't waste further time if you continue lying. Go ahead and show me where I said "Ronaldo cannot win without Benzema and Modric".
You said you judge Messi and Ronaldo over a whole season not one game. But you're now saying that only winning the eague and not a knockout competition (one game) shows the team declined, you can't have both
I'm trying to view your post history and you hide it, then challenge someone to find a post in your history
I'm waiting for that post. Go ahead. Its in this very thread. Not more than a page or two. Should be easy, even someone like you.