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2021-22 Performances


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Okay let's do it your way.

"Always another excuse isn't there, that's pathetic."

Why did we score twice vs Liverpool last year but didnt do anything this year? Isn't Ronaldo the better striker? Please don't make excuses.

"There are many other systems, hell, this obsession with pressing wasn't even in the game 10 years ago. Games evolved but pressing isn't the only tactical setup in the world, and it won't be the last revolutionary setup either."

You basically talking about football 10 years ago and how we shouldn't press because it didn't exist 10 years ago as a way of defending Ronaldo. Crazy stuff.

Like I have mentioned in a previous post, according to reports no players were happy to play aggressively and press that game, their lack of practice with the setup is more of the issue with that than just bloody Ronaldo.

According to what reports? The 4231 pressing system where the press is led by the number 9 or more realistically- the player closest to the ball so its only the number 9 when its at the opposition CB'S feet is not an Ole made tactic. Its how you play and press in a 4231.



Some guy posted it to defend Ronaldo but it actually shows what he does not do. He does not position himself inbetween the central two defenders because he likes staying at the left hand side of the pitch as he scores at an angle like a striker version of Robben. And 3.5 presses a match in the PL. Lowest in the league.

If you think Ronaldo is the sole problem with that formation you are deluded. It's not the fact he isn't pressing, it's the fact that all of Ronaldo, Bruno, Rashford, and Greenwood are ahead of the ball when we are defending, leaving a massive gap for teams to overload us. You highlight that yourself (The opposition are able to get past the first 4 players completely ) and then fully blame Ronaldo for that, like what? It's all 4 fecking players, jesus.

Great stuff. So you bring up last season where we had no problem bloody playing in a 424. No one .entitled that crap once. No one said the defending was great but still.

if we played a 433 and Bruno was the one who was going from CAM forward way too much every single game then it would be him who made us play a 424.

however we play a 4231. Rashford, Bruno and Greenwood are all supposed to be on the same level and Ronaldo is supposed to lead the line as a number 9. So you have basically blamed all of Rashford, Bruno Greenwood, Even Sancho and Martial and whoever played in this 4231 behind the level of the striker this season because they got too high up with Ronaldo rather than blaming Ronaldo for not pressing high up at all when his stats shows he is the lowest pressing player in the Premier league.

blame everyone for getting up and playing at Ronaldo's length of the pitch and it's them causing a bloody 424.

was amazing seeing it last season wasnt it. Nope not at all. Didn't exist. 424 wasn't there last season because neither did Ronaldo.

Ronaldo is some God here who can shit at old Trafford and people would still be on the floor on all fours saying it smells absolutely wonderful.

You win, according to reports and shit.

Why did we score twice vs Liverpool last year but didnt do anything this year? Isn't Ronaldo the better striker? Please don't make excuses.
Oh come on, so this whole defensive failure has now turned into attacking failure has it? Honestly, this links back to the whole point that your argument is totally useless until we have a manager that can actually implement a tactical setup. There's a whole bloody reason why many many people have been calling united "individual moments FC" etc for well over a year. Also, he was the only one to put the ball in the back of the net against them at the weekend, offside or not.

You basically talking about football 10 years ago and how we shouldn't press because it didn't exist 10 years ago as a way of defending Ronaldo. Crazy stuff.
No, not at all, i'm making my point by saying that pressing is not the only tactical setup in the world.

According to what reports?
There's been many tweets on other threads coming out saying the players were questioning the setup and weren't happy about it, feel free to dig them out yourself.

Yeah - no idea what your last comment is about, to be honest, can't make sense of all that load of nonsense.

I'll go back to an edit I made to a previous post earlier surrounding one of your comments -
Madrid 16-18. 2 CLs. He's played the exact same way since 2016 and has won 2 champions leagues, la liga and 2 serie a's, personal accolades and other various cup titles.
But no, Ronaldo is the issue of a problem that has been evident since before he joined the club.

Look, you ain't changing your mind, I ain't changing mine.
IMO there is absolutely no need in slandering players when we don't have a clue what the team's tactical setup is, and everyone is all over the place. There's a reason why most of our current players perform better in internationals, and that's due to the root cause - Ole, not Ronaldo. get a proper system in place and he'll win you plenty of games, and has already won us 2 back to back CL games despite having such a poor setup.
 
Looking back at this transfer, so Ronaldo wasn't happy at Juve, agents gets in touch with City, deal seemed to be through, we intervened and got him. If he was joining someone else than City, would we have tried to hijack the deal? Dont get me wrong I love Cristiano but from a neutral point of view, we kind of signed him so he doesn't go to City. Fergie said this is to protect his image at the club, but why would he consider City in the first place, knowing the rivalry etc..

Without him in the team, we would have pushed Mason towards that striker role with sancho/rashford on the wings..
 
So what actually happened? United are trying to play the same way as before. The same system, same „tactics“, nearly the same players. Just put Ronaldo in for someone else.
Everyone who watched some football the last years knew what United would get with Ronaldo - especially these days.
He is doing his part so far and got most of his chances converted.
The team and the coaching staff are not doing their job. Chances for Ronaldo means goals for United - it‘s as simple as that. The aim should be to get him in those situations as often as possible as a team.

The price on the other hand is that he is not running around like prime Tevez and there needs to be some balance or players that are kind of covering him. The coaching staff should set up a plan how to give this team that needed balance and maybe it could help to change the system to 442/433 or at least some players in the starting eleven.

Everyone can have their own opinion of course but does anyone really think this guy would not score lots of goals if he gets those chances?

You have to decide what you want or what game plan you have and by buying him I thought the decision was made - I simply can not see it in the setup unfortunately.
 
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All talks about coaching aside, there's a few thing that a good manager would recognize immediately and do:

1. First off, Ronaldo has never been a lone striker. I don't know how many times this should be repeated. He's never played in that role in his life. His best years with us and Madrid were spent as him playing a free role of a winger/inside forward hybrid that moves into goalscoring positions up to. This is literally the same role Salah plays. Unfortunately, Ole, for whatever reason (I don't think he's watched a game of Ronaldo ever since he left us and even before that) has decided to play him as a poacher like he is Ruud Van Nistelrooy or something. Of course, Ronaldo ends up isolated and due to the team's low creativity, he feeds of scraps, basically. He still has the ability to score second to none, but he is very limited in this role and his overall play and threat potential suffers because of it.

2. Ronaldo needs a hard-working CF who would open spaces for him so Ronaldo can obliterate defences with ease. He had that with us, he had that in Madrid and he's had that in Juventus. This is how he has always worked as a player. And ironically - we have that perfect forward here, but apparently Ole thinks it is a good idea to keep him on the bench rather than play him with Ronaldo. Baffling.

3. The whole point of getting a player like Ronaldo is to make him the focus of your team. This is how every top team works. Bayern with Lewandowski, Inter with Lukaku, Liverpool with Salah, Madrid with Ronaldo, Barcelona with Messi. There is zero reaason why you would buy a player of this caliber to use him as one of the "lads". Now this is the part where Ole can learn a thing or two from Fergie (albeit it's too late for that now). When Van Persie was brought, SAF immediately made him the focus of the team. He told every player that if able, search and pass to Van Persie or you get dropped. Period. And every player did that. Lo and behold, Persie wins us the league. But Ole has zero idea what to do with Ronaldo. He continues to allow Greenwood to do whatever he likes, Rashford makes his own runs and Bruno is apparently, more on his own volition, the only one looking for Ronaldo in any way. This leaves us terribly disjointed because every player basically tries his own thing. Virtually all of the goals Ronaldo has scored so far have either been from Bruno's amazing passes or his own individual brilliance. No service whatsoever for a player of that caliber is criminal. All down to the manager.

4. Ole, due to his own incompetency or emotional maturity of picking his "favorites" does so at the cost of team balance and cohesion. This leaves the entire team organization in a sad state of affair. He wants Bruno to act like his previous sesasons, pushing up top, basically playing more or less as a second striker because Bruno basically saved him his job twice. But this does not help Bruno, it only hurts him and the entire team but Ole seems not to udnerstand that. He thinks that pushing Bruno in more forward positions would make him more influential when it is the opposite - he needs to be deeper in order to do what he does best - maestro the game. Ole is also in love with Greenwood and has made him basically undroppable despite severe deficiencies to his game that need to be ironed out in any top team. Now, is Greenwood a superb talent? He is. But Ole has given him free reign to do whatever he likes in game which more often than not hurts us than it helps us. Then you have his absolute favorites McFred that are unable to dictate a game if their lives depend on it. I won't go about the rest of the team, but Ole's insistence on picking his favorites rather than do what is good for the team has created a weird situation where every player looks to play the way they want, rather than for the team.

5. Ole has continued to persist with a formation (in order to involve all of his mates in) that leaves us terribly exposed and the front men, including Ronaldo, isolated from the rest of the team. Most of the time I'm shocked at what I'm seeing. The forwards are miles away from the midfield, so said midfield is left with no option to pass. Or when we lose the ball teams pass through our midfield like nobody's business because, as Scholes said, it's basically 2 men defending against 4, at the very least, incoming players. Bruno is the biggest culprit of this, but he isn't the only one, so it's not something on an individual basis. These players are told to play that way because often times Rashford and Greenwood are in the middle of nowhere, as well.

Anyway, Ronaldo is the last thing we should be worrying about. Up top we're actually not doing that bad due to the sheer quality we have, despite the terrible tactics. But our similarly disorganized defense with none of the talent like our top basically makes us concede like crazy. This is also all down to tactics, but the problem is that unlike the top - there is no sheer individuality to save it. You have donkeys like AWB and Maguire at the back with the addition of Luke Shaw who is on the burgers again and our only quality player there is injured. A good manager can make them play well enough, they're not that bad. But the problem is we have no good manager or a system and players like Maguire and AWB are left to rely on their own individual acumen, of which they have very little.
 
All talks about coaching aside, there's a few thing that a good manager would recognize immediately and do:

1. First off, Ronaldo has never been a lone striker. I don't know how many times this should be repeated. He's never played in that role in his life. His best years with us and Madrid were spent as him playing a free role of a winger/inside forward hybrid that moves into goalscoring positions up to. This is literally the same role Salah plays. Unfortunately, Ole, for whatever reason (I don't think he's watched a game of Ronaldo ever since he left us and even before that) has decided to play him as a poacher like he is Ruud Van Nistelrooy or something. Of course, Ronaldo ends up isolated and due to the team's low creativity, he feeds of scraps, basically. He still has the ability to score second to none, but he is very limited in this role and his overall play and threat potential suffers because of it.

2. Ronaldo needs a hard-working CF who would open spaces for him so Ronaldo can obliterate defences with ease. He had that with us, he had that in Madrid and he's had that in Juventus. This is how he has always worked as a player. And ironically - we have that perfect forward here, but apparently Ole thinks it is a good idea to keep him on the bench rather than play him with Ronaldo. Baffling.

3. The whole point of getting a player like Ronaldo is to make him the focus of your team. This is how every top team works. Bayern with Lewandowski, Inter with Lukaku, Liverpool with Salah, Madrid with Ronaldo, Barcelona with Messi. There is zero reaason why you would buy a player of this caliber to use him as one of the "lads". Now this is the part where Ole can learn a thing or two from Fergie (albeit it's too late for that now). When Van Persie was brought, SAF immediately made him the focus of the team. He told every player that if able, search and pass to Van Persie or you get dropped. Period. And every player did that. Lo and behold, Persie wins us the league. But Ole has zero idea what to do with Ronaldo. He continues to allow Greenwood to do whatever he likes, Rashford makes his own runs and Bruno is apparently, more on his own volition, the only one looking for Ronaldo in any way. This leaves us terribly disjointed because every player basically tries his own thing. Virtually all of the goals Ronaldo has scored so far have either been from Bruno's amazing passes or his own individual brilliance. No service whatsoever for a player of that caliber is criminal. All down to the manager.

4. Ole, due to his own incompetency or emotional maturity of picking his "favorites" does so at the cost of team balance and cohesion. This leaves the entire team organization in a sad state of affair. He wants Bruno to act like his previous sesasons, pushing up top, basically playing more or less as a second striker because Bruno basically saved him his job twice. But this does not help Bruno, it only hurts him and the entire team but Ole seems not to udnerstand that. He thinks that pushing Bruno in more forward positions would make him more influential when it is the opposite - he needs to be deeper in order to do what he does best - maestro the game. Ole is also in love with Greenwood and has made him basically undroppable despite severe deficiencies to his game that need to be ironed out in any top team. Now, is Greenwood a superb talent? He is. But Ole has given him free reign to do whatever he likes in game which more often than not hurts us than it helps us. Then you have his absolute favorites McFred that are unable to dictate a game if their lives depend on it. I won't go about the rest of the team, but Ole's insistence on picking his favorites rather than do what is good for the team has created a weird situation where every player looks to play the way they want, rather than for the team.

5. Ole has continued to persist with a formation (in order to involve all of his mates in) that leaves us terribly exposed and the front men, including Ronaldo, isolated from the rest of the team. Most of the time I'm shocked at what I'm seeing. The forwards are miles away from the midfield, so said midfield is left with no option to pass. Or when we lose the ball teams pass through our midfield like nobody's business because, as Scholes said, it's basically 2 men defending against 4, at the very least, incoming players. Bruno is the biggest culprit of this, but he isn't the only one, so it's not something on an individual basis. These players are told to play that way because often times Rashford and Greenwood are in the middle of nowhere, as well.

Anyway, Ronaldo is the last thing we should be worrying about. Up top we're actually not doing that bad due to the sheer quality we have, despite the terrible tactics. But our similarly disorganized defense with none of the talent like our top basically makes us concede like crazy. This is also all down to tactics, but the problem is that unlike the top - there is no sheer individuality to save it. You have donkeys like AWB and Maguire at the back with the addition of Luke Shaw who is on the burgers again and our only quality player there is injured. A good manager can make them play well enough, they're not that bad. But the problem is we have no good manager or a system and players like Maguire and AWB are left to rely on their own individual acumen, of which they have very little.
Great post, agree with everything you said. Baffling how a professional sports coaching team in one of the biggest clubs can't see this though.
 
I’m not actually sure what it is you’re on about. Are you criticising Maguire or Ronaldo?

Calm down & read my post again.
I was agreeing with you and ironically taking the piss out of people blaming Maguire currently playing like an epileptic donkey on Ronaldo's lack of pressing full-backs.
 
All talks about coaching aside, there's a few thing that a good manager would recognize immediately and do:

1. First off, Ronaldo has never been a lone striker. I don't know how many times this should be repeated. He's never played in that role in his life. His best years with us and Madrid were spent as him playing a free role of a winger/inside forward hybrid that moves into goalscoring positions up to. This is literally the same role Salah plays. Unfortunately, Ole, for whatever reason (I don't think he's watched a game of Ronaldo ever since he left us and even before that) has decided to play him as a poacher like he is Ruud Van Nistelrooy or something. Of course, Ronaldo ends up isolated and due to the team's low creativity, he feeds of scraps, basically. He still has the ability to score second to none, but he is very limited in this role and his overall play and threat potential suffers because of it.

2. Ronaldo needs a hard-working CF who would open spaces for him so Ronaldo can obliterate defences with ease. He had that with us, he had that in Madrid and he's had that in Juventus. This is how he has always worked as a player. And ironically - we have that perfect forward here, but apparently Ole thinks it is a good idea to keep him on the bench rather than play him with Ronaldo. Baffling.

3. The whole point of getting a player like Ronaldo is to make him the focus of your team. This is how every top team works. Bayern with Lewandowski, Inter with Lukaku, Liverpool with Salah, Madrid with Ronaldo, Barcelona with Messi. There is zero reaason why you would buy a player of this caliber to use him as one of the "lads". Now this is the part where Ole can learn a thing or two from Fergie (albeit it's too late for that now). When Van Persie was brought, SAF immediately made him the focus of the team. He told every player that if able, search and pass to Van Persie or you get dropped. Period. And every player did that. Lo and behold, Persie wins us the league. But Ole has zero idea what to do with Ronaldo. He continues to allow Greenwood to do whatever he likes, Rashford makes his own runs and Bruno is apparently, more on his own volition, the only one looking for Ronaldo in any way. This leaves us terribly disjointed because every player basically tries his own thing. Virtually all of the goals Ronaldo has scored so far have either been from Bruno's amazing passes or his own individual brilliance. No service whatsoever for a player of that caliber is criminal. All down to the manager.

4. Ole, due to his own incompetency or emotional maturity of picking his "favorites" does so at the cost of team balance and cohesion. This leaves the entire team organization in a sad state of affair. He wants Bruno to act like his previous sesasons, pushing up top, basically playing more or less as a second striker because Bruno basically saved him his job twice. But this does not help Bruno, it only hurts him and the entire team but Ole seems not to udnerstand that. He thinks that pushing Bruno in more forward positions would make him more influential when it is the opposite - he needs to be deeper in order to do what he does best - maestro the game. Ole is also in love with Greenwood and has made him basically undroppable despite severe deficiencies to his game that need to be ironed out in any top team. Now, is Greenwood a superb talent? He is. But Ole has given him free reign to do whatever he likes in game which more often than not hurts us than it helps us. Then you have his absolute favorites McFred that are unable to dictate a game if their lives depend on it. I won't go about the rest of the team, but Ole's insistence on picking his favorites rather than do what is good for the team has created a weird situation where every player looks to play the way they want, rather than for the team.

5. Ole has continued to persist with a formation (in order to involve all of his mates in) that leaves us terribly exposed and the front men, including Ronaldo, isolated from the rest of the team. Most of the time I'm shocked at what I'm seeing. The forwards are miles away from the midfield, so said midfield is left with no option to pass. Or when we lose the ball teams pass through our midfield like nobody's business because, as Scholes said, it's basically 2 men defending against 4, at the very least, incoming players. Bruno is the biggest culprit of this, but he isn't the only one, so it's not something on an individual basis. These players are told to play that way because often times Rashford and Greenwood are in the middle of nowhere, as well.

Anyway, Ronaldo is the last thing we should be worrying about. Up top we're actually not doing that bad due to the sheer quality we have, despite the terrible tactics. But our similarly disorganized defense with none of the talent like our top basically makes us concede like crazy. This is also all down to tactics, but the problem is that unlike the top - there is no sheer individuality to save it. You have donkeys like AWB and Maguire at the back with the addition of Luke Shaw who is on the burgers again and our only quality player there is injured. A good manager can make them play well enough, they're not that bad. But the problem is we have no good manager or a system and players like Maguire and AWB are left to rely on their own individual acumen, of which they have very little.

Disagree with this, we really shouldn't be building our team around a 37 year old Ronaldo. RVP in 13 was a complete Striker. Hold play, could dribble, link up play, could score a goal out of nothing. This version of Ronaldo is nothing like that. Rooney before RVP was a complete striker as well. Ronnie is a static penalty box striker who is an amazing header and that's it.
 
Disagree with this, we really shouldn't be building our team around a 37 year old Ronaldo. RVP in 13 was a complete Striker. Hold play, could dribble, link up play, could score a goal out of nothing. This version of Ronaldo is nothing like that. Rooney before RVP was a complete striker as well. Ronnie is a static penalty box striker who is an amazing header and that's it.
You don't buy a player of that caliber, regardless of his age, for any other reason. If Ole doesn't understand that, he is absolutely clueless and should have never have brought him in the first place. Plus, Ronaldo can easily do the things you've described, actually. I presume you didn't watch him at Juve? And to compare him to Van Persie is absurd. The whole team worked for Van Persie, which is what I'm saying. Nobody apart from Bruno works for Ronaldo and Bruno is told to play higher up the pitch than Ronaldo himself.
 
All talks about coaching aside, there's a few thing that a good manager would recognize immediately and do:

4. Ole, due to his own incompetency or emotional maturity of picking his "favorites" does so at the cost of team balance and cohesion. This leaves the entire team organization in a sad state of affair. He wants Bruno to act like his previous sesasons, pushing up top, basically playing more or less as a second striker because Bruno basically saved him his job twice. But this does not help Bruno, it only hurts him and the entire team but Ole seems not to udnerstand that. He thinks that pushing Bruno in more forward positions would make him more influential when it is the opposite - he needs to be deeper in order to do what he does best - maestro the game. Ole is also in love with Greenwood and has made him basically undroppable despite severe deficiencies to his game that need to be ironed out in any top team. Now, is Greenwood a superb talent? He is. But Ole has given him free reign to do whatever he likes in game which more often than not hurts us than it helps us. Then you have his absolute favorites McFred that are unable to dictate a game if their lives depend on it. I won't go about the rest of the team, but Ole's insistence on picking his favorites rather than do what is good for the team has created a weird situation where every player looks to play the way they want, rather than for the team.
Great post. Number 4 is one that I've been going on about for years, namely that the coach doesn't seem to dictate the way we play, but rather the players who are on the pitch do. The prime example of this is when Matic plays instead of one of McFred. In the build-up phase, Matic usually drops down into defence which allows the full-backs to push up further, and we play with pretty much a back three when in possession in the first phase. When Fred or McTominay are there, this doesn't happen. Surely the position of the most defensively minded central midfielder during the build-up phase is something that a coach with an idea of how he wants his team to play would be specific about? There have been countless examples, for example the attacking adventurousness of the left back when Brandon Williams was breaking through where our LB would play completely differently depending on whether it was Shaw or Williams (back then), whether our right winger would stay wide or tuck inside depending on who was playing there etc etc.

That for me was the biggest indicator that Ole's pre-game instructions don't amount to much more than "go out there and play your game and enjoy yourselves lads".
 
I was agreeing with you and ironically taking the piss out of people blaming Maguire currently playing like an epileptic donkey on Ronaldo's lack of pressing full-backs.
I thought you were :lol: Just some of the views on here recently have been strange.
 
First, we need to ask a big question, is Ronaldo fit to current Man United system?

If yes, plus other 2 big money spending players, Man United should play better football than last season.

If no, should Man United change their system to fit Ronaldo type of playing?

To answer this question, there are some judgement below,

1) He is at the end of his career.
He is 36-37 is that worth it to change system for him? For a season or two, limited young players progress?

2) He wants 90 minutes football.
Sub out or Super sub is a big no for him, we can judged by his reactions last few matches. It is difficult for a manager when player is bigger than him.

3) Is he still one of the world best players now?
Can he bring title or trophies to the club if Man United change the tactics to accommodate him? Big doubt at his age now.

4) Are there other better option out there?
Yes, Plenty great strikers now are better than the now him, guess Mbappe, Haaland, Kane... and more, they still have > 5 -15 years football career.

I think Ronaldo still is a boss purchase to please fans and enhanced his marketing strategy and Ole will get the all blame.
 
Looking back at this transfer, so Ronaldo wasn't happy at Juve, agents gets in touch with City, deal seemed to be through, we intervened and got him. If he was joining someone else than City, would we have tried to hijack the deal? Dont get me wrong I love Cristiano but from a neutral point of view, we kind of signed him so he doesn't go to City. Fergie said this is to protect his image at the club, but why would he consider City in the first place, knowing the rivalry etc..

Without him in the team, we would have pushed Mason towards that striker role with sancho/rashford on the wings..
That would be same, or even worst. As we still have no one doing the pressing up front, while we would be scoring less winning goals too.
 
First, we need to ask a big question, is Ronaldo fit to current Man United system?

If yes, plus other 2 big money spending players, Man United should play better football than last season.

If no, should Man United change their system to fit Ronaldo type of playing?

To answer this question, there are some judgement below,

1) He is at the end of his career.
He is 36-37 is that worth it to change system for him? For a season or two, limited young players progress?

2) He wants 90 minutes football.
Sub out or Super sub is a big no for him, we can judged by his reactions last few matches. It is difficult for a manager when player is bigger than him.

3) Is he still one of the world best players now?
Can he bring title or trophies to the club if Man United change the tactics to accommodate him? Big doubt at his age now.

4) Are there other better option out there?
Yes, Plenty great strikers now are better than the now him, guess Mbappe, Haaland, Kane... and more, they still have > 5 -15 years football career.

I think Ronaldo still is a boss purchase to please fans and enhanced his marketing strategy and Ole will get the all blame.
Good post.

1. No
3. No
4. Yes

But tbf imo Ole is partly responsible for this. Especially how he handles his team selection and tactic recently. So he's there to blame too.

There's no surprise for me that Conte wants the job but one of his conditions is to do not have "makertable players" foisted onto him. Can't wait for Conte tbh.

 
4) Are there other better option out there?
Yes, Plenty great strikers now are better than the now him, guess Mbappe, Haaland, Kane... and more, they still have > 5 -15 years football career.

I think Ronaldo still is a boss purchase to please fans and enhanced his marketing strategy and Ole will get the all blame.
Don’t think they would solve our current problems at all either. It would be same even signing any of those strikers.

Right now our biggest problem is:

1. Lacking team structure
2. Lacking build up play
3. Leaky defence
4. Lacking pressing up front

To solve problem team structure and build up play, we need better manager and coaching team.

To solve problems of leaky defence, we need better defensive coaching, better leader at the back, better defenders, and better DM pairs.

To solve problems of lacking of pressing, we need to have right balance of front players who do could pressing up front as unit. Right now we are playing Rashford, Ronaldo and Greenwood, none of them press, so it’s a problem.
 
Don’t think they would solve our current problems at all either. It would be same even signing any of those strikers.

Right now our biggest problem is:

1. Lacking team structure
2. Lacking build up play
3. Leaky defence
4. Lacking pressing up front

To solve problem team structure and build up play, we need better manager and coaching team.

To solve problems of leaky defence, we need better defensive coaching, better leader at the back, better defenders, and better DM pairs.

To solve problems of lacking of pressing, we need to have right balance of front players who do could pressing up front as unit. Right now we are playing Rashford, Ronaldo and Greenwood, none of them press, so it’s a problem.
Top 3 in the league press like madmen. This has been the trend for several seasons already. What divine right do our players have to refuse to run?
 
Good post.

1. No
3. No
4. Yes

But tbf imo Ole is partly responsible for this. Especially how he handles his team selection and tactic recently. So he's there to blame too.

There's no surprise for me that Conte wants the job but one of his conditions is to do not have "makertable players" foisted onto him. Can't wait for Conte tbh.



Damn. Is he saying don't let him play "marketable" players at United or don't let him sign marketable players? Probably a mix of both.

I can think of 2 marketable players at United. I'm also opening up to the idea of Conte - he is really going to make players work and going to try to get the best use out of them.
 
Damn. Is he saying don't let him play "marketable" players at United or don't let him sign marketable players? Probably a mix of both.

I can think of 2 marketable players at United. I'm also opening up to the idea of Conte - he is really going to make players work and going to try to get the best use out of them.
It's hard to known but imo both. Or the club can still sign them but do not force him to play them if he doesn't want to. At least the "play" part I think.

Tbh I don't really want Conte but as Zidane doesn't want us so he's probably our best choice. Agreed that he could improve us, especially considering he doesn't fancy playing the "marketable players".
 
It's hard to known but imo both. Or the club can still sign them but do not force him to play them if he doesn't want to. At least the "play" part I think.

Tbh I don't really want Conte but as Zidane doesn't want us so he's probably our best choice. Agreed that he could improve us, especially considering he doesn't fancy playing the "marketable players".

Conte looks like quite a tactical flexible manager. He has played 4 at the back but thats his most unlikely formation - if he does play players like Pogba and Ronaldo - he is going to tactically try to get the best use out of them and also smack them in the arse every time they look lazy. It should either push them up another level or highlight their weaknesses even more - the same with players like Rashford or Greenwood who are younger, so have more of a lung to well meet expectations.

I don't think for example we will see the selfishness we see between Ronaldo and Greenwood with Conte as manager. He is just simply above them controlling what they do - some players may adapt to that, some players may not.
 
Ronaldo would have a big negative impact on City's ability to function as a pressing unit though, which is central to how they play.

People blaming him for our collapse our wrong. But he does pose a problem tactically for whoever comes in after Solskjaer and a lot of managers would find the best way to deal with that problem is to drop him from the team.

There's no getting away from the fact that a 36 year old poacher who doesn't press is a problem for any team planning to press a lot. It just isn't so much of a problem that we should be in shambles.
The thing is, you underestimate Pep's ability to adapt and make it work, he provided a system for Messi in his Barcelona days, I am sure he will find a way to play Ronaldo, without asking him to be Jesus or Firmino.
 
https://thebusbybabe.sbnation.com/2...e-defensive-problems-cristiano-ronaldo-brings

Interesting article. Says what I've suspected.

Ronaldo is a match winner, but his game has some major flaws, which are having a cascading affect on our team, and is a major reason for our poor form this season. However, any decent manager should have been able to hide this weakness of his game and play to his strengths. So Ronaldo is winning us games, while his weaknesses are being exploited because Ole is not setting his team up the right way, and that has resulted in our poor form.

Cavani solves a lot of our problems uptop due to his workrate and brings a lot of balance to the team. Its really on Ole because he is playing Ronaldo like he would play Cavani, and that's insanely dumb. We need to stop this high pressing experiment, its not working, and will never work with Ronaldo in the team.
 
The thing is, you underestimate Pep's ability to adapt and make it work, he provided a system for Messi in his Barcelona days, I am sure he will find a way to play Ronaldo, without asking him to be Jesus or Firmino.

Oh yeah, he may well find a way to make it work. Just as our new manager might.

My point really is that it is an issue you have to figure out though. This version of Ronaldo comes with downsides you have to accomodate tactically for his place in the team to be worthwhile. And some managers would wilfully avoid that issue by just not playing him. It's not as simple as "Ronaldo scores a lot of goals, therefore the team is automatically going to be better with him in it".

In our current case it is wrong to blame him for the team's drop off in form but it's entirely fair to say he is a factor in exacerbating some of our underlying issues, because Solskjaer isn't Pep. If you present a new tactical obstacle to someone who already isn't good tactically, bad things can happen.
 
Ronaldo is definitely a victim of xenophobia from our fanbase especially when the team doesn't win the velocity of the criticism is unfair and treating him like a punching bag.. he's just 1 player doing the graveyard shift upfront on his own without any service what is he suppose to do when Maguire can't defend etc.. Same happens with De Gea last season, Pogba etc you can't deny youth or academy players at Manchester United don't get held to the same standard. Every player who plays for Manchester United should be treated equally.

the way fans treat and criticise Ronaldo worse than Greenwood or Rashford for example despite Ronaldo scoring more goals and Greenwood having 0 assists despite him playing as a winger for most of the season (he's meant to serve Ronaldo and create chances for ). And Greenwood is 20 years old and like Paul Scholes his pressing against Liverpool was a joke.. and he's not 37 years old he's capable!

it's toxic.

when Ronaldo has chances created for him he's still the best in the business as he's proven with clutch goals this season. He can't create his own chances which is what the criticism seems to imply he needs to do. Ronaldo is 37 in a few months it's not unreasonable to expect the team and younger players to do the running for him, sacrificing themselves to get the best out of Ronaldo by creating chances for him. It seems logical to me to structure the team that way if you start Ronaldo. It's the only way it works otherwise why buy him in the first place? It's not his fault he relies on the team more at 37 years old.. everyone knew that before we signed him.

some fans criticise Souness for doing the same thing to Pogba they are doing with Ronaldo or another foreign player and then they talk about mental health etc. It's bizarre and toxic like I said. It's shown a lot of fans true colours recently.

yes when he scores and United win we all love Ronaldo and Viva Ronaldo etc but it's in tough times you see people's true colours. You expect it from the media but not our own fan base. I don't think Liverpool fans would do the same to Salah or Chelsea fans with Lukaku or PSG fans with Messi and City fans with Aguero. I haven't checked them club forums when them players don't score in a game or the team doesnt win but I imagine it's not as bad as this thread in terms of criticism. And Ronaldo is a club legend FFS he deserves more respect for what he's done for the club and the trophies he's helped the club win... he should have more credit and goodwill in the bank than anyone from their own club supporters.

even if Ronaldo didn't score another goal all season I wouldn't criticise Ronaldo because he's a club legend and I respect what he's done for the club. And the fact he rejected joining Manchester City to come back to United because he loves the club. When looking back now joining Manchester City was probably the best move for Ronaldo in terms of chances to win trophies. And playing in a structured team like Lukaku for Chelsea.

even If it doesn't work out, we should just say to Ronaldo thanks for the memories and goodbye. No hard feelings needed. He won't stay anyway if the team isn't challenging for trophies. His contract ends in 18 months and why would he sign another one to be battling for top 4.. nah he don't need that hassle and criticism he's won it all. He can retire happy in the MLS.
 
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Ronaldo is definitely a victim of xenophobia from our fanbase. Same happens with De Gea last season, Pogba etc you can't deny youth players at Manchester United don't get held to the same standard.

the way fans treat and criticise Ronaldo worse than Greenwood or Rashford for example despite scoring more goals and Greenwood having 0 assists despite him playing as a winger for most of the season (he's meant to serve Ronaldo and create chances for ).

it's toxic.

when Ronaldo has chances created for him he's still the best in the business as he's proven with clutch goals this season. He can't create his own chances which is what the criticism seems to imply he needs to do. Ronaldo is 37 in a few months it's not unreasonable to expect the team and younger players to do the running for him, sacrificing themselves to get the best out of Ronaldo by creating chances for him. It seems logical to me to structure the team that way if you play Ronaldo.

That's wrong.

Im not sure why you think it's just Greenwood and Rashford that should be serving Ronaldo when Ronaldo as Striker should be serving the inverted forwards likewise. As a striker you don't play inverted forwards - you play a strike partner or a traditional wingers which we only have Sancho.

The tactics are wrong. It was a last minute no balance scared motion transfer we bought to stop City buying him and its messed up any sort of balance in the front line we had.

Crazy how people are shooting Greenwood and Rashford for a 36 year old version of Ronaldo.

Very toxic indeed.
 
Ronaldo is definitely a victim of xenophobia from our fanbase. Same happens with De Gea last season, Pogba etc you can't deny youth or academy players at Manchester United don't get held to the same standard. Every player who plays for Manchester United should be treated equally.

the way fans treat and criticise Ronaldo worse than Greenwood or Rashford for example despite Ronaldo scoring more goals and Greenwood having 0 assists despite him playing as a winger for most of the season (he's meant to serve Ronaldo and create chances for ). And Greenwood is 20 years old and like Paul Scholes his pressing against Liverpool was a joke.. and he's not 37 years old he's capable!

it's toxic.

when Ronaldo has chances created for him he's still the best in the business as he's proven with clutch goals this season. He can't create his own chances which is what the criticism seems to imply he needs to do. Ronaldo is 37 in a few months it's not unreasonable to expect the team and younger players to do the running for him, sacrificing themselves to get the best out of Ronaldo by creating chances for him. It seems logical to me to structure the team that way if you start Ronaldo. It's the only way it works otherwise why buy him in the first place? It's not his fault he relies on the team more at 37 years old.. everyone knew that before we signed him.
Ronaldo is not a victim of xenophobia, he is more a victim of unrealistic high expectations and fans desperately trying to find a solution to a problem that is staring them in the face. We've witnessed the same thing with Pogba, with Shaw, with Lukaku, with Rooney (in the Moyes season), with Di Maria, with Martial, etc. You can go on and on, fans are always trying to find the dumbest reason as to why we lose. It is now that Ronaldo doesn't press enough. When was he ever a presser, tbh? Which main man, at any top team, is known for his pressing? There is none. It is absurd to even suggest it. But it is an easy shot against him to use. Who wants to discuss tactics, roles, coaching etc when you can just as easily say we lose because Ronaldo doesn't press and that automatically turns our defence and midfield into a disorganized mess?
 
The thing is, you underestimate Pep's ability to adapt and make it work, he provided a system for Messi in his Barcelona days, I am sure he will find a way to play Ronaldo, without asking him to be Jesus or Firmino.

It's really not hard to fit a prime Messi into a system.
 
You don't buy a player of that caliber, regardless of his age, for any other reason. If Ole doesn't understand that, he is absolutely clueless and should have never have brought him in the first place. Plus, Ronaldo can easily do the things you've described, actually. I presume you didn't watch him at Juve? And to compare him to Van Persie is absurd. The whole team worked for Van Persie, which is what I'm saying. Nobody apart from Bruno works for Ronaldo and Bruno is told to play higher up the pitch than Ronaldo himself.

I agree that Ole shouldn't have bought him. I just think that building a team around a almost 37 year old Ronaldo is absurd. Neville made the point that despite believing that Ronaldo is the goat, this version of him is not enough to make Man Utd title contenders. If he was still goat level, we should be building a team around him, but he's not. There are better forwards in the prem alone atm.
 
It's really not hard to fit a prime Messi into a system.
Exactly, he wouldn't need to press in a 433 playing in a false 9 where he drops deep and either makes a pass and/or then goes on a run before finish.

Ronaldo doesn't also need to press in his prime when he plays as a LW. When he plays as a lone ST which people have made up that he is good at when he has hardly done that throughout his career :confused: what he needs to do changes.

People like @Sviken have said that it's United fans that have gotten fustrated and pointed out Ronaldo’s lack of pressing as this seasons excuse when it's simply not true.

It's not United fans who did this.

There is stats and videos made all by random people all over the world who are not United fans in this forum saying why Ronaldo has given the manager an added tactical problem - it is just me who has decided to post this all so I hope that when we watch matches where his lack of pressing can be seen rather than forgotten.

This has not been an excuse by United fans. Its literally been said by different people who are not even fans of United or part of this forum.
 
Oh yeah, he may well find a way to make it work. Just as our new manager might.
He won't, he had no clue how to organize this his team how to press since day one, long before Ronaldo, and long before Cavani.

My point really is that it is an issue you have to figure out though. This version of Ronaldo comes with downsides you have to accomodate tactically for his place in the team to be worthwhile. And some managers would wilfully avoid that issue by just not playing him. It's not as simple as "Ronaldo scores a lot of goals, therefore the team is automatically going to be better with him in it".
I agree, of course it does, but why the feck sign him if you have no clue how to use him? Who's idea was it?
In our current case it is wrong to blame him for the team's drop off in form but it's entirely fair to say he is a factor in exacerbating some of our underlying issues, because Solskjaer isn't Pep. If you present a new tactical obstacle to someone who already isn't good tactically, bad things can happen.
Of course he is a factor, just like Greenwood and Rashford.
 
There is stats and videos made all by random people all over the world who are not United fans in this forum saying why Ronaldo has given the manager an added tactical problem - it is just me who has decided to post this all so I hope that when we watch matches where his lack of pressing can be seen rather than forgotten.

This has not been an excuse by United fans. Its literally been said by different people who are not even fans of United or part of this forum.
Yes, exactly - made by random people that know nothing about football and think that because they played a couple of Football Manager games they know all about system, tactics, pressing, positioning and what not. Even Ole is more knowledgeable than these idiots. This new trend of watching Youtubers explaining tactics is all well and good if you're watching it for fun, but I'd advice anyone not to give any thought as to the actual information because it is very misleading to downright wrong.
 
I agree, point was, do you remember Messi pressing? I don't. And Barca had players like Henry, Eto also, we have Marcus Rashford and 19 year old Greenwood.

I frankly don't remember, but they were one of the best teams of all time in terms of controlling possesion.
 
Yes, exactly - made by random people that know nothing about football and think that because they played a couple of Football Manager games they know all about system, tactics, pressing, positioning and what not. Even Ole is more knowledgeable than these idiots. This new trend of watching Youtubers explaining tactics is all well and good if you're watching it for fun, but I'd advice anyone not to give any thought as to the actual information because it is very misleading to downright wrong.

Right then officially the lowest presser in the league has no consequence or results on a team. People's job whose revolve around football surely know more than fans like me or you but who gives a shit. Funny how you have it in your head that what you know is right and everyone else is wrong. The Ronaldo Ego. Great stuff." Don't go for the information because it's very misleading my arse" like your information is accurate and scientifically proven :lol: mine has stats. 3.5 presses a game. The 4231 press is led by the striker closest to the ball playing defenders. He has never been a good lone striker in his whole bloody career. He doesn't position himself centrally because he was never a central striker so the opposition CB'S have all the time to pick out their passes. Look at his heat map and how much of at an angle he plays at.

Ronaldo-TT-heat-map.png



Absolutely nothing on the right hand side. The most forward bits are heavy towards the left.

He sometimes just waits on those left handed sides and the ball playing CB's get all the time to do what they want with the ball and pick the perfect pass through our midfield - because Ronaldo cannot play as a lone striker upfront.
 
Right then officially the lowest presser in the league has no consequence or results on a team. People's job whose revolve around football surely know more than fans like me or you but who gives a shit. Funny how you have it in your head that what you know is right and everyone else is wrong. The Ronaldo Ego. Great stuff." Don't go for the information because it's very misleading my arse" like your information is accurate and scientifically proven :lol: mine has stats. 3.5 presses a game. The 4231 press is led by the striker closest to the ball playing defenders. He has never been a good lone striker in his whole bloody career. He doesn't position himself centrally because he was never a central striker so the opposition CB'S have all the time to pick out their passes. Look at his heat map and how much of at an angle he plays at.

Ronaldo-TT-heat-map.png



Absolutely nothing on the right hand side. The most forward bits are heavy towards the left.

He sometimes just waits on those left handed sides and the ball playing CB's get all the time to do what they want with the ball and pick the perfect pass through our midfield - because Ronaldo cannot play as a lone striker upfront.
Mate, your whole argument is nonsense because we're not a pressing team, not even remotely. You'd have more merit if we played like Klopp and Ronaldo was the odd man out, but this is just nonsense. None of our players press. That is down to instructions. And if some do - like Bruno, for example, it is often pointless, without any single idea as to who exactly to press and when. Just mindless running that often leaves us more exposed than it helps. Chelsea, who are top of the league with the least amount of goals conceded have Lukaku up top. Your argument is a losing one from the get go. Your heatmap is just from one game, not an entire season. And finally, yes, Ole is using Ronaldo wrong, that is obviuos to a blind man.

You're taking a single sample size and saying "gotcha, i've figured out why we are so shit". Ronaldo can be prime Rooney in terms of energy and there would be absolutely zero difference to this team.
 
Mate, your whole argument is nonsense because we're not a pressing team, not even remotely. You'd have more merit if we played like Klopp and Ronaldo was the odd man out, but this is just nonsense. None of our players press. That is down to instructions. And if some do - like Bruno, for example, it is often pointless, without any single idea as to who exactly to press and when. Just mindless running that often leaves us more exposed than it helps. Chelsea, who are top of the league with the least amount of goals conceded have Lukaku up top. Your argument is a losing one from the get go. Your heatmap is just from one game, not an entire season. And finally, yes, Ole is using Ronaldo wrong, that is obviuos to a blind man.

You're taking a single sample size and saying "gotcha, i've figured out why we are so shit". Ronaldo can be prime Rooney in terms of energy and there would be absolutely zero difference to this team.

You don't need to be a bloody pressing team!

The fact is Ronaldo is not a central striker and he doesn't even position himself as one - he positions himself away from the CB'S because he is like Arjen Robben that turned striker when he lost pace, he is a winger who wants to play slightly off an angle.

What this does is give the CB'S all the time in the world to pick the perfect pass. Ronaldo is not central enough.

People seem to think that Klopp invented pressing or some shit. His team gegenpressing where everyone in the team press at the same time is not what is done by alot of clubs in the world and most clubs in the world. In a 4231 however, the player closest to the ball does go for a press and the player closest to the CB'S is usually the number 9 striker so he by himself goes for a press.

Ronaldo doesn't even press - which is fine but he doesn't even position himself centrally because he plays at a LW/LF angle - which gives all the time in the world to the CB'S to do what they want.

Cavani when he played pressed 13.5 times a game - ten times more a game than Ronaldo but more importantly he positions himself centrally so the ball playing CB'S do not have a freedom. We might not press as a team but we can press individually and whoever is closest to the ball. Rashford/Greenwood or even the winger version of Ronaldo not pressing means what? It's just the fullback and all he can do is either decide to take on Greenwood/the winger or go back to his CB.

However not having a striker blocking the lane of the CB'S means the CB'S has all the choice in the world to spread the ball across all their defensive line and wait until the midfield opens up and make the perfect pass.

I showed you Cavani's heat map.

this is Martial's heat map. Shows you how in one position Ronaldo can be even compared to someone like Martial.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...still-struggling-to-fulfil-his-true-potential
 
The thing is, you underestimate Pep's ability to adapt and make it work, he provided a system for Messi in his Barcelona days, I am sure he will find a way to play Ronaldo, without asking him to be Jesus or Firmino.

No the Messi he had was literally an anomaly he had to fit him in tactically because he was literally the greatest player the world had ever seen, this current Ronaldo is not and more akin to the Aguero he was sticking on the bench.

Also worth remembering just how rounded Messi was as an attacker in his prime, he pressed more than current Ronaldo while being a playmaker and elite goal scorer too, Guardiola wouldn’t fit Ronaldo in because he simply wouldn’t buy him.

City’s main target was Kane for a good reason.
 
Christian isn't a problem if you as a team are happy to play a low or mid block and then run a fast counter, in fact I think he even had his best time in a system like that under Mou. He becomes a problem if you want to play like Liverpool though because someone else from a deeper position will have to do the pressing for him which will open up gaps else where.

I think this is a reality we need to except, defend deeper and then utilize our fast wide players like Rashford and Greenwood but that also means our central midfield and our defenders need to be able to innitiate the fast counter attacks and that so far seems to have been a problem as well. We often take too long to transition into attacks. 2008 we were masterfully at it, also with Ronaldo in the team and I feel like this could work again if the technical staff manages to drill into the team some clear patterns on how to quickly transition into attacks and unfortunately here comes our biggest problem into play, it doesn't seem like the current crop of coaches and our manager have been able to teach our team any kind of attacking or defensive patterns at all.
 
No the Messi he had was literally an anomaly he had to fit him in tactically because he was literally the greatest player the world had ever seen, this current Ronaldo is not and more akin to the Aguero he was sticking on the bench.

Also worth remembering just how rounded Messi was as an attacker in his prime, he pressed more than current Ronaldo while being a playmaker and elite goal scorer too, Guardiola wouldn’t fit Ronaldo in because he simply wouldn’t buy him.

City’s main target was Kane for a good reason.
Messi was of course what you say he was, and maybe it is true that the Aguero situation was maybe similar, however Aguero was nowhere near Ronaldo at his peak, and certainly not his injury plagued version close to the current Ronaldo. Also Pep had the luxury of implementing a well oiled system that could afford to play Sterling or Jesus and leave players like Sane and Aguero on the bench. Our problems are bigger and existent without Ronaldo.

Pep would have taken Ronaldo with both hands this summer, I am sure he would have done a better job that our manager.
 
Messi was of course what you say he was, and maybe it is true that the Aguero situation was maybe similar, however Aguero was nowhere near Ronaldo at his peak, and certainly not his injury plagued version close to the current Ronaldo. Also Pep had the luxury of implementing a well oiled system that could afford to play Sterling or Jesus and leave players like Sane and Aguero on the bench. Our problems are bigger and existent without Ronaldo.

Pep would have taken Ronaldo with both hands this summer, I am sure he would have done a better job that our manager.

Yes and Ronaldo is not as his peak also, the Aguero pep managed was far closer to this current Ronaldo he still had a good record, you can check.

Of course pep would do a better job but I doubt he would want him anyways, he doesn’t work hard enough, this is the same Pep that discarded of Ibra for partly the same reason. The reason he wanted Kane is because Kane last season ticked all the boxes, works hard and presses from the front, drops deep to act as a quasi numver 10 and facilitate play and of course scores lots of goals, Ronaldo only does one of these things.
 
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