[ClassOf'99]

I am not writing this as a defence of his form but maybe a reflection of him with this style of play, expectancy from the manager on what he should do and if this philosophy doesn't suit him, it happens.

Ronaldo prior to Ralf:

16 games, 12 goals, 2 assists

Since Ralf joined:

9 games, 2 goals, 1 assist

Maybe the expectations of Ralf do not mesh well with him which is plausible, also could be just a poor run of form but that output reads poorly for us and him.

This nonsense about the 5 game drought being the longest in 12 years isnt true as he had a similar run with Juve last year, albeit 2 of those were club friendlies.

His Juve stats aren't the greatest as he lived up to the nickname Penaldo while he was over there and his penalty against boro has just heaped more questions on if he is in fact in decline, or just in a rough patch.

I wouldn't write him off until the end of the season as like it or not, him nor Cavani will be going anywhere until then and with Martial on loan we are very very limited on who we can slot in there.

If we are witnessing a decline then I don't think us jumping on the bandwagon of the media is helpful towards any United player, as long as he plays in our shirt he should get our support, he may not be the best in the world right now but he is the best of what we have available.

 

[Gehrman]

Many will question precisely how good Ronaldo was in that respect even in his prime - but that isn't really the point: his game never depended on it.

It isn't surprising that he isn't - now, at 37 - able to fall back on abilities that he never had to any extraordinary degree in his prime.

His touch, dribbling was very good in his prime.

 

[carlbcfc]

Does anybody know where you can actually find the statistics for his acceleration speed, top speed et cetera?

 

[The Firestarter]

Does anybody know where you can actually find the statistics for his acceleration speed, top speed et cetera?

Life ain't fifa mate.

 

[mavradal]

I know he is in great physical shape, but men in their 40's can get in that shape. You wonder if the effort of maintaining that has now taken its toll. Lose a yard, you don't get to balls you used to. You can lose the instincts that made you the best in the world. He is 37, why would the club think they were signing prime Ronaldo. He was a lethal finisher, he seems to have lost that first touch and his confidence.

I don't think the problem is physical, I would bet he's simply not as mentally sharp as he used and his concentration gets affected in games. That would explain why his reaction time is getting worse as he's turning 37.

 

[Swoobs]

It goes without saying that Ronaldo obviously won't have his pick of the clubs in the summer. I'm actually worried he'll end up staying and we'll be stuck with him for another year. He really needs to move on, for his own sake and for ours.

He will need to take a massive paycut for it to happen and he probably will not do so, which means he is likely to stay another year with you guys

 

[ronaldinhoisagoat]

We are stuck with Ronaldo. He isn't going to either Newcastle or PSG (they've been burnt with Messi).
A huge part of Ronaldo's legend is that he's only played for the most successful historical teams in the biggest leagues.
He's not going to want to spoil that by going to an oil club. Why else did he pick a faltering United over City?
Is it because of Fergie? Puh-lease ... He wouldn't have left us all those years ago then.

He's also not going to want to change environments before possibly his last World Cup.
That is his ticket to being recognized as better than Messi ... nothing he does at United will add and to his legend and make him better than Messi/Pele/Maradona in the eyes of most people.
He has made United a stepping stone once again for his personal glory. At United he will play whenever he wants, gets top fitness facilities, gets top medical professionals, earns a staggering amount and can focus on getting into form for the World Cup (and qualifiers in March).

The only way he may leave is if he doesn't make it to the World Cup, accepts a pay cut, a historical team (Milan/Bayern/etc) is interested in him and someone actually pays a transfer fee for him.
There are too many factors here - we are stuck with a seriously depreciating asset. Is one of the highest paid players in the EPL even going to touch 25 goals overall? In 15+2 matches he has to score 11 goals. Considering his form after RR came in, I think he will fall short.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I don't think the problem is physical, I would bet he's simply not as mentally sharp as he used and his concentration gets affected in games. That would explain why his reaction time is getting worse as he's turning 37.

Probably coming into this team has not helped. He is used to being in stacked teams where he is the leader.

 

[That_Bloke]

I don't think the problem is physical, I would bet he's simply not as mentally sharp as he used and his concentration gets affected in games. That would explain why his reaction time is getting worse as he's turning 37.

I'm fairly certain that he's mentally as sharp as ever, especially with the 20 odd years experience he accumulated.

However, at that age, the brain works faster than the body. There's a split second discrepancy that makes everything you did with ease, even a year before, suddenly don't work out.

 

[Grande]

Don't think its anything to do with styles. He's missing chances, misplacing passes, taking bad touches. The basics of centre forward play whatever the systen.

Especially missing chances. That's the biggest issue.

Yes, but it’s the kind of basics that typically suffer if a striker is forced to focus much on other aspects of play, struggles with the rythm of his team and loses confidence.

 

[goptun]

He will need to take a massive paycut for it to happen and he probably will not do so, which means he is likely to stay another year with you guys

Would he be happy playing his final year/one of his final years in Europa? Or if Ten Hag/a new manager comes in and says he'll primarily be a bench player?

 

[Ruud89]

We are stuck with Ronaldo. He isn't going to either Newcastle or PSG (they've been burnt with Messi).
A huge part of Ronaldo's legend is that he's only played for the most successful historical teams in the biggest leagues.
He's not going to want to spoil that by going to an oil club. Why else did he pick a faltering United over City?
Is it because of Fergie? Puh-lease ... He wouldn't have left us all those years ago then.

He's also not going to want to change environments before possibly his last World Cup.
That is his ticket to being recognized as better than Messi ... nothing he does at United will add and to his legend and make him better than Messi/Pele/Maradona in the eyes of most people.
He has made United a stepping stone once again for his personal glory. At United he will play whenever he wants, gets top fitness facilities, gets top medical professionals, earns a staggering amount and can focus on getting into form for the World Cup (and qualifiers in March).

The only way he may leave is if he doesn't make it to the World Cup, accepts a pay cut, a historical team (Milan/Bayern/etc) is interested in him and someone actually pays a transfer fee for him.
There are too many factors here - we are stuck with a seriously depreciating asset. Is one of the highest paid players in the EPL even going to touch 25 goals overall? In 15+2 matches he has to score 11 goals. Considering his form after RR came in, I think he will fall short.

You really thinking about how we can get rid of Ronaldo? Haha

If we dont make top 4 then he is not going to stay himself and at this stage it seems very likely we will be missing out so please dont you worry about how we can get Ronaldo out.

Truth is he is too good for us and we are only bringing him down. I bet he regrets coming here every single day.

 

[shamans]

His touch, dribbling was very good in his prime.

I find it crazy how underrated his prime dribbling gets rated or people who think he never dribbled once he left Man United.

He's one of the best dribblers of our generation it's not his fault his competitor, when it comes to dribbling, might be the best ever.

 

[shamans]

I don't think the problem is physical, I would bet he's simply not as mentally sharp as he used and his concentration gets affected in games. That would explain why his reaction time is getting worse as he's turning 37.

People here showing disrespect to Ronaldo is quite sad to see. But respectfully, I do fear he is almost done physically.

My biggest red flag is those shots he takes that hit the defenders shin and results in blocks. For the old Ronaldo those were shots on target. He's finding it difficult to generate that burst of dribbling, making space and taking a shot.

 

[Nordmore]

Does anybody know where you can actually find the statistics for his acceleration speed, top speed et cetera?

Ronaldo top speed recorded in 2021 is 32.51 kmh.

For comparison Shaw recorded a top speed of 34.13 kmh.

Fastest United players in 2021 are Greenwood and AWB (37.64 kmh), Fred (37.4 kmh). Rashford and Elanga also recorded a top speed over 36 kmh I think.

But the top speed is not really that important. Acceleration matters much more in football. I can't find any number but based on the eye test I don't think Ronaldo's acceleration is still any good either. He has lost that yard.

 

[De Portago]

I find it crazy how underrated his prime dribbling gets rated or people who think he never dribbled once he left Man United.

He's one of the best dribblers of our generation it's not his fault his competitor, when it comes to dribbling, might be the best ever.

Ronaldo more or less abdicated dribbling a long time ago, the longer he continues his career the more are people going to forget/abrogate his dribbling ability shown once upon a time. If he did it on purpose (which I honestly think) it serves him well. He's obviously immensely invested in numbers/records/statistics/legacy the way it is defined today, it is only fair for people who don't care so much about said stuff to be able to express their disapproval.

 

[kouroux]

Well put. It does seem to me Ronaldo is not the ideal fit for the kind of football Rangnik excels in teaching. The style we played under Solskjær was generally a better fit with his strengths (even if it went tits up three games after he came) and I would guess it’s a tough ask of any 37-year old to learn a new style that doesn’t match well with your profile. Under Solskjær, he’d frequently bail us out, under Rangnik, he has missed many of those chances and looks less confident, and to me more frustrated with himself than with his team mates if I’m guessing.

If he keeps working like he has, though, it will be useful to the club in a difficult transition, and even if it’s not his homecoming dream, he’ll have my respect for it.

Tbh, apart from the 4-2-2-2 in some games, I don't see that much difference between OIe and Ralf and of course, the pathetic attempt at pressing as a team.

 

[United in sin]

Tbh, apart from the 4-2-2-2 in some games, I don't see that much difference between OIe and Ralf and of course, the pathetic attempt at pressing as a team.

I think that's down to the poor conditioning of this squad. It will take longer to get them to optimal levels for effective pressing in full matches.

 

[kouroux]

I think that's down to the poor conditioning of this squad. It will take longer to get them to optimal levels for effective pressing in full matches.

You're right and considering the very unpredictable nature of our squad (who will stay and who will leave), it makes it near impossible to envision any kinda future way of playing.
Ronaldo is on his last legs, his physical decline is too visible. He struggles with headers, he struggles with running with the ball, controlling the ball in tight spaces

 

[Chesterlestreet]

His touch, dribbling was very good in his prime.

I find it crazy how underrated his prime dribbling gets rated or people who think he never dribbled once he left Man United.

It's not a question of underrating his dribbling/touch when he was in his prime. I didn't say he wasn't very good - I said that these aspects of his game weren't ever good enough to fall back on once he lost some explosiveness/agility, etc.

He was a very effective dribbler in his prime - of course he was. But part and parcel of his ability to beat a man was physical, he wasn't a magician on the ball.

 

[Rojow]

Yes. Ronaldo was a good dribbler, for sure. But mostly he had the speed and acceleration to left befind the defenders. You can see this in season 2006 to 2010. He was good on the ball, but mostly he used his speed to beat his mark.

 

[kthanksbye]

People here showing disrespect to Ronaldo is quite sad to see. But respectfully, I do fear he is almost done physically.

My biggest red flag is those shots he takes that hit the defenders shin and results in blocks. For the old Ronaldo those were shots on target. He's finding it difficult to generate that burst of dribbling, making space and taking a shot.

A matter of bigger concern are the shots that his his own shin when he's shooting, he's fluffing/miscuing far too many shots, could either be shortage of confidence, which is unlikely with Ronaldo, or he really has lost his physicality and agility.

 

[Ayoba]

People here showing disrespect to Ronaldo is quite sad to see. But respectfully, I do fear he is almost done physically.

My biggest red flag is those shots he takes that hit the defenders shin and results in blocks. For the old Ronaldo those were shots on target. He's finding it difficult to generate that burst of dribbling, making space and taking a shot.

I agree on the physical part. He just looks so small and very lean in comparison to the other players out there, you'd never think he was over 6ft! Compare him to when he was in his peak, he looked like an absolute monster!

 

[AndySmith1990]

I find it crazy how underrated his prime dribbling gets rated or people who think he never dribbled once he left Man United.

He's one of the best dribblers of our generation it's not his fault his competitor, when it comes to dribbling, might be the best ever.

His dribbling was okay but never amongst the best. He usually did a few step overs, but he'd mostly just beat a man with explosive pace. Can't recall Ronaldo scoring a goal that entailed running from the half way line and dribbling past several defenders. I think dribbling and free kicks are two areas where he's actually overrated.

 

[Gehrman]

His dribbling was okay but never amongst the best. He usually did a few step overs, but he'd mostly just beat a man with explosive pace. Can't recall Ronaldo scoring a goal that entailed running from the half way line and dribbling past several defenders. I think dribbling and free kicks are two areas where he's actually overrated.

I think he scored a solo goal against fulham. In his prime his dribbling varied from good to great. But I think in his era apart from Messi of course, Hazard, Di Maria, Iniesta and neymar were better.

 

[Grande]

Tbh, apart from the 4-2-2-2 in some games, I don't see that much difference between OIe and Ralf and of course, the pathetic attempt at pressing as a team.

Undoubtedly Ralf has started where Ole left off, and don’t want to change too much too quickly, but you don’t see a difference in how the team assembles to pressing positions more quickly, and then defensive formation more with smaller spaces between the lines? Or how the movements in attack is different? Or how the strikers are more active in the play around the box, with less time for pure stalking?

Ronaldo/Cavani imo have less freedom in their choices of movement under Ralf than under Ole, both in defence and in attack. That suits Cavani well enough, but diminishes Ronaldos strengths and exposes some of his age-related weaknesses that he has been so good at camouflaging, plus he hasn’t played in a team not built to his strengths in about seventeen years.

My take is that he is on board with it, does what he is supposed to do by the coach, but his individual flow suffers from it. I don’t think 16/12 under Ole and 9/2 under Ralf is all coincidence, nor sudden physical deterioration, nor fluke form variations.

 

[troylocker]

Yes, but it’s the kind of basics that typically suffer if a striker is forced to focus much on other aspects of play, struggles with the rythm of his team and loses confidence.

Not even elite mentality or being one of the GOAT can help you there. It's so easy to forget how to trap a ball, make 10 yard passes and shoot when you're forced to press and fall a bit deeper on the pitch. Even jumping, sprinting and staying on your feet gets tough then....

...or maybe he's 37 and in heavy decline.

Right now the only thing he does well is getting into good positions and be available for service, everything else is gone.
With his low workrate and with the loss of touch and acceleration he no longer fits in a top team in modern football even if he found his shooting boots again. There isn't room for players who can do only one thing anymore, even if they do it well. Even if he scores 40 for us this season I'd make a strong case for how he makes us weaker as a team.

 

[Swoobs]

Not even elite mentality or being on of the GOAT can help you there. It's so easy to forget how to trap a ball, make 10 yard passes and shoot when you're forced to press and fall a bit deeper on the pitch. Even jumping, sprinting and staying on your feet gets tough then....

...or maybe he's 37 and in heavy decline.

Right now the only thing he does well is getting into good positions and be available for service, everything else is gone.
With his low workrate and with the loss of touch and acceleration he no longer fits in a top team in modern football even if he found his shooting boots again. There isn't room for players who can do only one thing anymore, even if they do it well. Even if he scores 40 for us this season I'd make a strong case for how he makes us weaker as a team.

Frankly, if he scores 40 goals (assuming not more than 10 penalties), i think he will be worth the hassle and being a liability in other parts of the game. Just imagine an Inzaghi on steriods

 

[The Mighty Gatekeeper]

When discussing Ronaldo and performances, please do it remembering that his legacy is set in stone already. It feels like a lot of the arguments are doing it from a standpoint of protecting his legacy, as in if he does poorly, he's no longer the GOAT (or one of the GOAT). It's not true, you can relax with that.

 

[shamans]

His dribbling was okay but never amongst the best. He usually did a few step overs, but he'd mostly just beat a man with explosive pace. Can't recall Ronaldo scoring a goal that entailed running from the half way line and dribbling past several defenders. I think dribbling and free kicks are two areas where he's actually overrated.

In tight spaces he can and has beaten several defenders. You're completely underrated him by thinking all he has ever done is make space for a shot. He used to be good at Freekicks and had a pretty higher conversion rate but balls changed and his knuckleball became quite tame.

So yeah, nothing amazing at freekicks but his dribbling was phenomenal

It's not a question of underrating his dribbling/touch when he was in his prime. I didn't say he wasn't very good - I said that these aspects of his game weren't ever good enough to fall back on once he lost some explosiveness/agility, etc.

He was a very effective dribbler in his prime - of course he was. But part and parcel of his ability to beat a man was physical, he wasn't a magician on the ball.

No one's dribbling alone is enough to fall back on. Ronaldinho, one of the goat dribblers, lost track once his fitness and burst levels went down. Messi, imo the greatest dribbler of all time, is struggling to really make a mark in the french league due to his declining physicality.

Someone who doesn't come near these names -- Alexis Sanchez. Once his burst pace was gone, his dribbling was useless.

I think he scored a solo goal against fulham. In his prime his dribbling varied from good to great. But I think in his era apart from Messi of course, Hazard, Di Maria, Iniesta and neymar were better.

I would say Messi and Hazard were much better dribblers, wouldn't even compare. I think Neymar and Di Maria are ahead but not by much. I think Ronaldo was a better dribbler than Iniesta.

 

[shamans]

@AndySmith1990
Here's a youtube compilation with many dribbles from halfway line.

 

[Gordon Godot]

When discussing Ronaldo and performances, please do it remembering that his legacy is set in stone already. It feels like a lot of the arguments are doing it from a standpoint of protecting his legacy, as in if he does poorly, he's no longer the GOAT (or one of the GOAT). It's not true, you can relax with that.

Agreed, he was a giant. He is now a shadow of that player, his effectiveness has also fallen. I think partly its demand of premier league, its also massively about oppo teams sussing him out and realising he only threatens in very limited areas of the ptich, and then Utd will over fixate on trying to get service to him. Should be an impact sub. Unfortuantely he now rotates as part of our 70 year old aggregate age forward line. Good job Ed!

 

[RedRonaldo]

Yes. Ronaldo was a good dribbler, for sure. But mostly he had the speed and acceleration to left befind the defenders. You can see this in season 2006 to 2010. He was good on the ball, but mostly he used his speed to beat his mark.

He used to use tricks to beat players too.

 

[shamans]

Yes. Ronaldo was a good dribbler, for sure. But mostly he had the speed and acceleration to left befind the defenders. You can see this in season 2006 to 2010. He was good on the ball, but mostly he used his speed to beat his mark.

Nah he has bamboozled defenders with pure trickery. Not to the level of Ronaldinho, Messi, Hazard etc but he has in his own right

 

[MrEleson]

Nah he has bamboozled defenders with pure trickery. Not to the level of Ronaldinho, Messi, Hazard etc but he has in his own right

Messi and hazard don’t even use trickery. They use pure body feints. Ronaldo at his dribbling best had every trick in the book up his sleeve.

 

[UnitedSofa]

Agreed, he was a giant. He is now a shadow of that player, his effectiveness has also fallen. I think partly its demand of premier league, its also massively about oppo teams sussing him out and realising he only threatens in very limited areas of the ptich, and then Utd will over fixate on trying to get service to him. Should be an impact sub. Unfortuantely he now rotates as part of our 70 year old aggregate age forward line. Good job Ed!

And yet those players who form our 70 year old aggregate age forward line are our most productive forwards that we've had over the past 2 seasons.

Funny how things work out eh?

 

[shamans]

Messi and hazard don’t even use trickery. They use pure body feints. Ronaldo at his dribbling best had every trick in the book up his sleeve.

Right. I was talking dribbling in general but of course there are different types of dribbling. Messi and Hazard have to use body feints and all because of their height (which most would agree is most effective form of dribbling at the pro level, but taller players cant really do it as much).

Ronaldo was more of the Ronaldinho mold of dribbling. Obviously never that good but he was something special back in the day and I would put him in a handful of footballers who used such dribbling at the pro level to success.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

You really thinking about how we can get rid of Ronaldo? Haha

If we dont make top 4 then he is not going to stay himself and at this stage it seems very likely we will be missing out so please dont you worry about how we can get Ronaldo out.

Truth is he is too good for us and we are only bringing him down. I bet he regrets coming here every single day.

Just when I think the caf cant come up with a more stupid opinion, someone has to wade in and prove me wrong

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

When discussing Ronaldo and performances, please do it remembering that his legacy is set in stone already. It feels like a lot of the arguments are doing it from a standpoint of protecting his legacy, as in if he does poorly, he's no longer the GOAT (or one of the GOAT). It's not true, you can relax with that.

Very true, and I feel people have short memories or are almost disrespecting how good he was by saying he’s not that different to his peak and how great he is at 37. He’s much, much worse in several departments. It’s a pale shadow of who he was. Might as well be a different player. He’s managed to make it work to be a semi-serviceable player at 37, but if that was the standard he was for his whole career he wouldn’t have been near the best players in the world at any point, never mind an all-time great.

 

[Oly Francis]

Messi and hazard don’t even use trickery. They use pure body feints. Ronaldo at his dribbling best had every trick in the book up his sleeve.

Not really. He was a very good dribbler no doubt but his touches were far less smooth than dribblers like Ronaldinho, Ronaldo Nazario or Neymar. He wasn't very creative (compared to top dribblers) and mostly relied on pace and burst even if he had a couple of tricks like his famous "Ronaldo chop" (even if it was invented 50 years earlier). There's nothing wrong with that since it's very efficient. Mbappé uses the same style (but he's not as good a dribbler as Ronaldo was) and it's very efficient. It's just not as refined and "in control" as the very best.