[captaincantona]

Having showdown talks with his agent if we are being lead to believe, looking like he’s off..

Son signing for the club does not really indicate that he is planning on leaving in 4 months time.
its quite the conundrum. Hard to see a top young striker wanting to come to Utd if there is a risk that they will be asked to play second fiddle and learn from Ronny next season.

 

[shamans]

He was not a close control dribbler he was more of a kick and run dribbler who did a bit of showboating.

Compared to the players I mentionned no, he did not. He didn't give this feeling that the ball was glued to his feet like prime Messi, Ronaldinho or Neymar (for exemple, there's others). He rarely gave this wow feeling that makes you say "what is he going to invent this time". It was more "how is he going to beat his defender", which is also very efficient, sometimes even more that pure dribbling. After all, football is about beating your opponent so it doesn't really matter how he did it even if he relied more on his power.



Exactly. He was still a very good dribbler compared to the average player but that's not really what made him so good.

What exactly is close control dribbling ? If you're talking about body faints and micro adjustments then yeah he was never that sort of dribbler. That would be Messi and hazard.

Then you have the likes of Neymar and Ronaldinho. Ronaldo at his peak was closer to their style. Of course Ronaldinho and Neymar peak dribbling is better but they're once in a lifetime level dribblers.

Peak Ronaldo was a very creative and imaginative trickster. He could get out of tight situations and get around defenders in many ways. See some of his YouTube complications. Effective nutmegs, Ronaldo chop, elastico, rabona and they all had his own style of execution as well.

 

[Skyhightrees]

What exactly is close control dribbling ? If you're talking about body faints and micro adjustments then yeah he was never that sort of dribbler. That would be Messi and hazard.

Then you have the likes of Neymar and Ronaldinho. Ronaldo at his peak was closer to their style. Of course Ronaldinho and Neymar peak dribbling is better but they're once in a lifetime level dribblers.

Peak Ronaldo was a very creative and imaginative trickster. He could get out of tight situations and get around defenders in many ways. See some of his YouTube complications. Effective nutmegs, Ronaldo chop, elastico, rabona and they all had his own style of execution as well.

I agree 100%. Ronaldo in his physical prime had another level of football on his game. His early tricks were beautiful and similar to brazilian players (I am Brazilian). Then across the seasons he became stronger and more explosive, and started using less street tricks.. His first few season at United were amazing creatively.

I think his best version is 2012, great all around player. After 2014 he became more and more a striker, then in 2022 he is where he is at the moment. It's odd seeing those compilations and then watching 37 year old Ronaldo. Time is Time ay?

I still think he will come good, I'm not rooting for Cristiano to do badly here, but he is really bad atm, similar to his last few months at Juve.

 

[SirAF]

What exactly is close control dribbling ? If you're talking about body faints and micro adjustments then yeah he was never that sort of dribbler. That would be Messi and hazard.

Then you have the likes of Neymar and Ronaldinho. Ronaldo at his peak was closer to their style. Of course Ronaldinho and Neymar peak dribbling is better but they're once in a lifetime level dribblers.

Peak Ronaldo was a very creative and imaginative trickster. He could get out of tight situations and get around defenders in many ways. See some of his YouTube complications. Effective nutmegs, Ronaldo chop, elastico, rabona and they all had his own style of execution as well.

One of the most productive "tricks"

 

[Gehrman]

What exactly is close control dribbling ? If you're talking about body faints and micro adjustments then yeah he was never that sort of dribbler. That would be Messi and hazard.

Then you have the likes of Neymar and Ronaldinho. Ronaldo at his peak was closer to their style. Of course Ronaldinho and Neymar peak dribbling is better but they're once in a lifetime level dribblers.

Peak Ronaldo was a very creative and imaginative trickster. He could get out of tight situations and get around defenders in many ways. See some of his YouTube complications. Effective nutmegs, Ronaldo chop, elastico, rabona and they all had his own style of execution as well.

Close control dribbling is just what it sounds like. Something that Zidane excelled at as well. There is nothing wrong about using pace and inteligent movement to go past players while you have pace. The difference is just that great dribblers with close control tend to remain great dribblers despite losing their pace even if it was effective in their prime years.

 

[Oly Francis]

What exactly is close control dribbling ? If you're talking about body faints and micro adjustments then yeah he was never that sort of dribbler. That would be Messi and hazard.

Then you have the likes of Neymar and Ronaldinho. Ronaldo at his peak was closer to their style. Of course Ronaldinho and Neymar peak dribbling is better but they're once in a lifetime level dribblers.

Peak Ronaldo was a very creative and imaginative trickster. He could get out of tight situations and get around defenders in many ways. See some of his YouTube complications. Effective nutmegs, Ronaldo chop, elastico, rabona and they all had his own style of execution as well.

That's what I'm saying, he was very good but not comparable to the very best. Also, Neymar and Ronaldinho were great at close control, ball orientation and adjustments.

This goal from Neymar for exemple is ridiculous (so his most of this clip) :


But Ronaldo was more powerful than Neymar and sometimes it's far more efficient than pure dribbling.

 

[shamans]

That's what I'm saying, he was very good but not comparable to the very best. Also, Neymar and Ronaldinho were great at close control, ball orientation and adjustments.

This goal from Neymar for exemple is ridiculous (so his most of this clip) :


But Ronaldo was more powerful than Neymar and sometimes it's far more efficient than pure dribbling.

Right, but initially I started this discussion because a poster (I forgot if it was you) talked about how peak Ronaldo relied more on pace and strength to make room rather than dribbling which I think is totally not true. There's also a big difference between not being a creative dribbler at all vs being as good as Neymar/Ronaldinho. I think Ronaldo is in the top 5 dribblers I've seen at peak, but easily top 10.

 

[Oly Francis]

Right, but initially I started this discussion because a poster (I forgot if it was you) talked about how peak Ronaldo relied more on pace and strength to make room rather than dribbling which I think is totally not true. There's also a big difference between not being a creative dribbler at all vs being as good as Neymar/Ronaldinho. I think Ronaldo is in the top 5 dribblers I've seen at peak, but easily top 10.

Depends on what you call "dribbling". If it's about beating your man in 1v1, he was among your top5. If we're talking about creativity, he was not, but it doesn't matter that much if you look at the end result : it created differences. Did he rely only on pace and strength? No. Did he rely on it far more than Messi, Hazard or Neymar, yes.

 

[shamans]

Close control dribbling is just what it sounds like. Something that Zidane excelled at as well. There is nothing wrong about using pace and inteligent movement to go past players while you have pace. The difference is just that great dribblers with close control tend to remain great dribblers despite losing their pace even if it was effective in their prime years.

But what are some of these examples? When pace and explosiveness leaves your body so does your dribbling ability. Messi, maybe the greatest dribbler of all time, cannot rely on just his dribbling anymore either. Ronaldinho when he lost his fitness was the same.

I think we see things as black and white a lot of times to categorize players but sometimes forget what's common. For instance I find the whole Messi is a natural vs Ronaldo is hard work argument little inaccurate as well. Messi has put in an insane amount of hard work into how he plays the way he does. throughout his career he has been extremely fit, strong on feet and not easy to shrug off the ball. Similarly, Ronaldo was always as gifted as they come. From a very young age he had a tendency to leap for headers hanging in the sky, natural ball control and dribbling ability as well as ridiculous stamina.

Since people forget this, they assume Ronaldo relied on pure pace and power while Messi relied on pure dribbling. If that were the case Messi wouldn't struggle right now either. Both players seem to be losing their physical powers and its costing them on the pitch (and I hope I'm wrong about that because I don't want this era to end just yet )

 

[shamans]

Depends on what you call "dribbling". If it's about beating your man in 1v1, he was among your top5. If we're talking about creativity, he was not, but it doesn't matter that much if you look at the end result : it created differences. Did he rely only on pace and strength? No. Did he rely on it far more than Messi, Hazard or Neymar, yes.

Again I can't think of too many dribblers more creative than him at the highest level except for the 3-4 most obvious ones (Messi, Neymar, Ronaldinho). It doesn't matter of course but just my perception of him during his peak was always someone who could pull out anything from the bag when surrounded by a player or two.

 

[Gehrman]

But what are some of these examples? When pace and explosiveness leaves your body so does your dribbling ability. Messi, maybe the greatest dribbler of all time, cannot rely on just his dribbling anymore either. Ronaldinho when he lost his fitness was the same.

I think we see things as black and white a lot of times to categorize players but sometimes forget what's common. For instance I find the whole Messi is a natural vs Ronaldo is hard work argument little inaccurate as well. Messi has put in an insane amount of hard work into how he plays the way he does. throughout his career he has been extremely fit, strong on feet and not easy to shrug off the ball. Similarly, Ronaldo was always as gifted as they come. From a very young age he had a tendency to leap for headers hanging in the sky, natural ball control and dribbling ability as well as ridiculous stamina.

Since people forget this, they assume Ronaldo relied on pure pace and power while Messi relied on pure dribbling. If that were the case Messi wouldn't struggle right now either. Both players seem to be losing their physical powers and its costing them on the pitch (and I hope I'm wrong about that because I don't want this era to end just yet )

Messi dribbled past more players at 33 thsn Ronnie did in hos Prime and Young years.

Ronaldinho was still a good dribbled at Milan.

And i just gave you Zidane as an example.

 

[ronaldinhoisagoat]

He's on 14 goals so far, wouldn't be surprised if he gets to 25

He has 15+2 games remaining to score 11 goals. Atletico will outwork us and has players more tuned to the tactics they use, so I'm confident that Ronaldo has only 17 more games this season. Nothing that RR has done so far indicates that he wants to take the "best out of" Ronaldo. If I put on my conspiracy theory hat I'd say that RR is purposely trying to make things hard for Ronaldo to get rid of him along with some others.
RR is not going to lose his consulting job if we come 10th so might as well have a huge clearout.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Ronaldo was a very good dribbler in his pomp, but he was never the best dribbler in the world and is probably 2 tiers below the absolute best in that regard.

In open space, he was devastatingly good(one of the best ever), but his dribbling in congested areas was never as good as Hazard's(never mind Messi's or Maradona's).

 

[Greck]

Agree Ronaldo was an elite dribbler but it wasn't effective to the point of being all time like Messi's. I always thought he cut it out of his game to double down on the parts of his talent that made him a goal machine. I remember his 2nd or 1st El classico where Barca's defenders (think Alves or Puyol) weren't having any of his step overs and basically shut him down.

 

[MrEleson]

When he arrived he used more tricks than in his fourth year at United. If you see compilations on Youtube from its early years, it has good dribbles, but in most cases it is the acceleration and speed that really made the difference.

Same as almost every great dribbler then?
Acceleration and speed really made the difference for the likes of Hazard and Messi too and once they lost a step they weren’t as good. Ronaldinho could barely beat a man after 30 years old and was doing everything on the spot and keeping the ball moving.

 

[MrEleson]

Fun fact: Most of United's lowest scoring seasons under SAF's title winning/competing days happened when Ronaldo was at the club first time around. Including 64 league goals scored in 2003-04 and an awful 58 in 2004-05.

Ronaldo and Van Nisterooy together were the stuff of nightmares. I'm not convinced United ever accommodated him particularly well or that he ever suited United.

How old are you? There’s so much wrong with this post that I won’t even try and correct.

 

[MrEleson]

Does he have any goals from a header this season? For several years, he was looking like the best offensive header in the world.

He still is..
We just as a team, suck at making accurate crosses into the box. Isn’t there a crazy stat where we haven’t scored from a corner in more than a year or something?
We’re probably utilising less than 50% of Ronaldo’s strengths yet he’s still our topscorer this season.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Ronaldo was never about close control and dribble in congested area. He was more about tricks and pace, which makes him more effective in counter attack play, or when running down the wings. And in terms of tricks and running in space, he is definitely among the top tier, in terms of pure dribble in congested area, I think he is a tier behind the elites.

 

[pratyush_utd]

Ronaldo is never about close control and dribble in congested area. He was more about tricks and pace, which makes him more effective in counter attack play, or running down the wings. And in terms of tricks and running in space, he is definitely among the top tier, in terms of pure dribble in congested area, I think he is a tier behind the elites.

Its not about dribble in congested area. Its his touch and laboured passing. He never looked awkward when holding up the ball like he has been for United.

 

[Greck]

That one game after the sub fiasco he played with excellent link up, like he was trying to make it up to us. Then the very next game he was back to goal hanging and doing nothing to help advance the ball. Like it's not his job when the attack is looking for a forward pass that isn't behind the defense.

Still can't believe Pep wanted to sign him, Pep who used to bench Aguero for Jesus for all the tactical reasons that describe Ronaldo, and that was peak Aguero who delivered better than current Ronaldo. Maybe he was getting desperate for the CL trophy and thought Ronaldo was the answer or maybe we got played. Of course it wouldn't have hurt to have a manager who was in tune with modern attacking setups or even any setup for that matter.

 

[Rojow]

Same as almost every great dribbler then?
Acceleration and speed really made the difference for the likes of Hazard and Messi too and once they lost a step they weren’t as good. Ronaldinho could barely beat a man after 30 years old and was doing everything on the spot and keeping the ball moving.

Not really. A good example is Zidane.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Its not about dribble in congested area. Its his touch and laboured passing. He never looked awkward when holding up the ball like he has been for United.

Sure the discussion is about his dribbling during his peak years? Of course as he grow older he started to loss his dribbling touch more, especially in fast pace physical environment. That's only normal and applies to everyone, even Maradona in his 30s, and Messi this season. I mean, even Sancho looks less than half the player he was for us as compared to his Dortmund time.

There are also lots of factors. Injuries is another factor, back in 2010 Ronaldo did suffered from serious injury, afterwards he started to trim down his dribbling, and then after 2015 his dribbling start to regress notably. And this season, we've seen the worst, he almost never dribbles, but then he is already 37 and playing for a disjointed team in the most physically demanding league. No one performs well here.

 

[Adisa]

Think he can't cope physically. Especially under Rangnick where he has to do a bit more running.

 

[The Mighty Gatekeeper]

How old are you? There’s so much wrong with this post that I won’t even try and correct.

Okay, let's have some fun. Let's include his last 4 seasons only - because in his first two seasons he played on the wing. For clarification United scored 64 and 58 league goals in 2003-04 and 2004-05 reapectively - pathetic totals for Fergie led teams.

Anyway the league goal totals for Ronnie's last 4 seasons here are:

2005 - 06 = 72 goals.

2006 - 07 = 83 goals

2007 - 08 = 80 goals

2008 - 09 = 68 goals

Average = 75.75 (round up to 76 - 2 goals a game).

Post Ronnie:

2009 - 10 = 86 goals

2010 - 11 = 78 goals

2011 - 12 = 89 goals

2012 - 13 = 86 goals

Directly pre-Ronnie

1999-00 = 97 goals

2000-01 = 79 goals

2001-02 = 87 goals

2002-03 = 74 goals

You're not gonna need a calculator to see that United scored more overall without Ronnie. So go on, talk to me about how I'm "wrong". Please.

 

[Gehrman]

Okay, let's have some fun. Let's include his last 4 seasons only - because in his first two seasons he played on the wing. For clarification United scored 64 and 58 league goals in 2003-04 and 2004-05 reapectively - pathetic totals for Fergie led teams.

Anyway the league goal totals for Ronnie's last 4 seasons here are:

2005 - 06 = 72 goals.

2006 - 07 = 83 goals

2007 - 08 = 80 goals

2008 - 09 = 68 goals

Average = 75.75 (round up to 76 - 2 goals a game).

Post Ronnie:

2009 - 10 = 86 goals

2010 - 11 = 78 goals

2011 - 12 = 89 goals

2012 - 13 = 86 goals

Directly pre-Ronnie

1999-00 = 97 goals

2000-01 = 79 goals

2001-02 = 87 goals

2002-03 = 74 goals

You're not gonna need a calculator to see that United scored more overall without Ronnie. So go on, talk to me about how I'm "wrong". Please.

Fergie mentioned that we scored more goals in the season after we sold Ronnie, but lets not kid ourselves that we were a better team when he was here. When we sold him and tevez, and got Valencia and Owen our stature went down and we were not favourties for the CL. With Ronnie in the 3 seasons he was world class here, he was our x factor.

 

[Jippy]

Okay, let's have some fun. Let's include his last 4 seasons only - because in his first two seasons he played on the wing. For clarification United scored 64 and 58 league goals in 2003-04 and 2004-05 reapectively - pathetic totals for Fergie led teams.

Anyway the league goal totals for Ronnie's last 4 seasons here are:

2005 - 06 = 72 goals.

2006 - 07 = 83 goals

2007 - 08 = 80 goals

2008 - 09 = 68 goals

Average = 75.75 (round up to 76 - 2 goals a game).

Post Ronnie:

2009 - 10 = 86 goals

2010 - 11 = 78 goals

2011 - 12 = 89 goals

2012 - 13 = 86 goals

Directly pre-Ronnie

1999-00 = 97 goals

2000-01 = 79 goals

2001-02 = 87 goals

2002-03 = 74 goals

You're not gonna need a calculator to see that United scored more overall without Ronnie. So go on, talk to me about how I'm "wrong". Please.

If anyone watched United in 08 and 09 in particular and thought we were a better team without Ronnie they're a fecking idiot.
In 02 we scored more but won feck all. In 05 we had Liam Miller, Kleberson and Djembas in midfield.

Goals scored is a very narrow metric. Youneed to look at points, goal difference etc...

 

[pratyush_utd]

Sure the discussion is about his dribbling during his peak years? Of course as he grow older he started to loss his dribbling touch more, especially in fast pace physical environment. That's only normal and applies to everyone, even Maradona in his 30s, and Messi this season. I mean, even Sancho looks less than half the player he was for us as compared to his Dortmund time.

There are also lots of factors. Injuries is another factor, back in 2010 Ronaldo did suffered from serious injury, afterwards he started to trim down his dribbling, and then after 2015 his dribbling start to regress notably. And this season, we've seen the worst, he almost never dribbles, but then he is already 37 and playing for a disjointed team in the most physically demanding league. No one performs well here.

Yes i agree but i think this league is bit too fast for him at his age. He has been putting outrageous performance through the years and i think his ego is bit hurt that he isn’t performing to what people expect from him. I hope i am wrong but it seems like he will be going forward will be more of an issue than solution

 

[Red Rash]

Really hope he can give us a big performance today. If Sancho, Bruno and Pogba can play like they did in the first half against Burnley we should be able to provide chances for Ronaldo.

I think one or two goals and he could go on a bit of a run.

 

[11101]

Hope he's well rested. He needs a goal and Southampton will leave gaps for him.

 

[Telsim]

It is with a heavy heart that I say this, but Cristiano is utterly finished. The mind is there, but the body falls behind. And at this level it is evident. I wouldn’t bother starting him anymore, except in the CL. And should look for a replacement in the summer for sure.

The end of an era.

 

[Raw]

Nah get him out. He's finished.

 

[Woodenlung]

Ronaldo is finished. I don't remember when the last time was he even performed well for us. I can't think of a single positive contribution he made during the game, but I remember at least half a dozen moments where promising attacks broke down.

Those CL goals papered over the cracks of his declining performance.

 

[Red Shorts]

He's dropped off the cliff. An exciting start has imploded for him

 

[Idxomer]

I wouldn't play with a striker for the rest of the season.

 

[sullydnl]

Even if he was scoring his general play would be a problem. When he's not scoring....

 

[Ali Dia]

He’s in absolutely dire form.

 

[Giggsyking]

retire

 

[slored1]

Ronaldo is finished.

I can't think of a single positive contribution he made during the game, but I remember at least half a dozen moments where promising attacks broke

100%. One of his worst ever performances, a genuine 0/10.

 

[bosnian_red]

He is horrible these days. Like barely premier league level. Playing with 10 men having him on the pitch as he's a huge negative in every single aspect. Literally doesn't provide a single positive, which is rare to see. feck all on the ball, feck all in the box in addition to his usual feck all off the ball.

 

[UnitedFan93]

Good luck winning games when you're starting with 10 men.