[SER19]

There’s no way I’m believing for one second that the whole team is performing worse on every parameter and metric from last season simply because Ronaldo joined. It’s utterly nonsensical.

We were utter dog shit vs Southampton and wolves before he came. Horrific v Everton when he was benched and equally dreadful in games without him.

He's been disappointing but Ronaldo arriving has nothing to do with our entire squad looking like conference players. Jesus even thinking about those defensive showings v Leicester and Liverpool gives me shivers

 

[He'sRaldo]

Having a decent xG despite our lack of creativity is a strength of Ronaldo, because he has excellent movement which creates chances for him. You can't assume his replacement would automatically generate the same amount, or even that we would have the correct structure, tactics, and movement and automations for chances to be shared round the team. For instance, when was the last time we scored from a City/Liverpool-esque cutback, with or without Ronaldo?

We all saw the lack of striker's instinct from our forwards in previous seasons, so I don't know why people assume that put in Ronaldo's position, they'd have the movement to generate good xG numbers. Of course the ideal scenario is a fluid front 3 all scoring 20+ goals, with two attacking mids scoring 15+, but that doesn't account for Martial dropping off the face of the earth in a split second. Or Mason suddenly scoring 4 in 24. Or Rashford forgetting how to link up with and use his teammates. Or Sancho not being very effective really. Etc.

So there's no point coming up with these ideal scenarios in our heads and raging that Ronaldo is seemingly holding us back from them, when these scenarios are not what has happened in reality. With that said, I do agree that the ideal scenario most likely doesn't have Ronaldo in it, at least in the league. I would like to see him sit out PL matches, just to see if finally this batch of young attackers can carry the weight of expectations in the way that previous batches couldn't.

 

[troylocker]

He’s stood out actually.

Our top scorer with 17 goals+assists in 21 games at nearly 37 years old (including 6 in 6 in the CL with all goals being game winning or game tying) in a preposterously dysfunctional team is standing out for sure.

He’s the 2nd topscorer for the club in 2021 despite only playing for the last 3 months of the year.

Just out of curiosity: Which one of September, October, November and December is it that doesn't exist?

 

[MrEleson]

Just out of curiosity: Which one of September, October, November and December is it that doesn't exist?

Okay our 2nd topscorer despite only playing 4 months of the year. Does that sound any less impressive?

 

[RashyGiggsy]

I was deeply disappointed when we signed Ronaldo. First, I see anyone who voluntarily leaves United as a traitor. So, a traitor who comes back after his best years are over, did not thrill me. But, as a United fan, I tried to be happy with it. However, having watched United this PL season, I would say that my reservations about signing Ronaldo have been confirmed. I don't need to repeat every comment made by previous members.

Most fans can't accept that United were still in a rebuilding stage when Ronaldo was signed. His signing threw everything off. We went from a solid rebuild to "immediate title hopefuls", then onto a mid-level team fairly quickly. It is foolish to believe that Fernandes' drop in form has nothing to do with the arrival of Ronaldo. The same goes with Greenwood and Rashford. Remember, Ronaldo said that football is a team sport and everyone must play their roles and accept their roles; then he said that his role is to score goals - that is to receive all the glory - while the roles of the others are to support him. Great for team cohesion! (When McTominay scored against Burnley, Ronaldo's first facial expression was more one of disappointment than joy. He does not like to share the glory.)

Bringing in a 37-year-old forward was not the best next step in United's rebuild. He can still play, but unfortunately it seems to come at the expense of United becoming a better team in the future.

Yes, Ronaldo has scored 14 goals, but United are scoring fewer goals this season than previously. Those goals would have come from elsewhere.

 

[troylocker]

I find this npxG90 stat very odd. How exactly is it deduced? Because from watching every game, we create feck all for him.

It's a matrix that calculates the chance of an average player in the top 5 leagues scoring from a shot/finish and accumulate this score through a season for every shot a player makes and devides the sum by minutes played and multiplies it with 90. Compare it to how many goals the player has scored and it will tell you how good the player's finishing has been compared to an average player in those leagues. Ronaldo has underperformed his npxG in the league with 29,3%, which indicates his finishing has been very bad this season. That doesn't mean he hasn't had a couple of great finishes, which he has, but his all over finishing has been....well, horrible.

Is all the data presented in this thread enough for you to even consider looking into the possiblity that he could be hindering the team?

 

[the_cliff]

Having a decent xG despite our lack of creativity is a strength of Ronaldo, because he has excellent movement which creates chances for him. You can't assume his replacement would automatically generate the same amount, or even that we would have the correct structure, tactics, and movement and automations for chances to be shared round the team. For instance, when was the last time we scored from a City/Liverpool-esque cutback, with or without Ronaldo?

We all saw the lack of striker's instinct from our forwards in previous seasons, so I don't know why people assume that put in Ronaldo's position, they'd have the movement to generate good xG numbers. Of course the ideal scenario is a fluid front 3 all scoring 20+ goals, with two attacking mids scoring 15+, but that doesn't account for Martial dropping off the face of the earth in a split second. Or Mason suddenly scoring 4 in 24. Or Rashford forgetting how to link up with and use his teammates. Or Sancho not being very effective really. Etc.

So there's no point coming up with these ideal scenarios in our heads and raging that Ronaldo is seemingly holding us back from them, when these scenarios are not what has happened in reality. With that said, I do agree that the ideal scenario most likely doesn't have Ronaldo in it, at least in the league. I would like to see him sit out PL matches, just to see if finally this batch of young attackers can carry the weight of expectations in the way that previous batches couldn't.

Let's do a comparison with Cavani last season for example then who led the line for us most:

Cavani last season in the league had 10.1 NpxG in his 1,368 mins last season but has scored 10 non penalty goals.
Ronaldo this season has an NpxG of 7.3 in 1,297 mins this season but has scored 6 non penalty goals.

So even Cavani last season has outperformed Ronaldo this season in both xG and goals scored.

With Cavani though Greenwood, Bruno were also contributing in scoring goals. Meanwhile with Ronaldo they aren't. Greenwood and Bruno have more league goals in the 3/4 games prior to Ronaldo signing than they have since he's come in.

You think that's a coincidence ?

Have a look for yourself if you want.
https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/stats/Premier-League-Stats

 

[He'sRaldo]

Let's do a comparison with Cavani last season for example then who led the line for us most:

Cavani last season in the league had 10.1 NpxG in his 1,368 mins last season but has scored 10 non penalty goals.
Ronaldo this season has an NpxG of 7.3 in 1,297 mins this season but has scored 6 non penalty goals.

So even Cavani last season has outperformed Ronaldo this season in both xG and goals scored.

With Cavani though Greenwood, Bruno were also contributing in scoring goals. Meanwhile with Ronaldo they aren't. Greenwood and Bruno have more league goals in the 3/4 games prior to Ronaldo signing than they have since he's come in.

You think that's a coincidence ?

I think it's a limited sample size.

xG, like most predictive statistics, wasn't designed to be used for that type of analysis with a small sample size. Too much noise for you to come to any definitive conclusion. It's meant to be used over a longer period of time, and historically we know Ronaldo has a high xG per game due to him having some of the best movement of all time.

Now bear in mind, if not for his constant unavailability, Cavani to me is also a very good option for the no.9 role because he also historically generates high xG numbers. But as for your analysis, no I don't think it's conclusive enough.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

Let's do a comparison with Cavani last season for example then who led the line for us most:

Cavani last season in the league had 10.1 NpxG in his 1,368 mins last season but has scored 10 non penalty goals.
Ronaldo this season has an NpxG of 7.3 in 1,297 mins this season but has scored 6 non penalty goals.

So even Cavani last season has outperformed Ronaldo this season in both xG and goals scored.

With Cavani though Greenwood, Bruno were also contributing in scoring goals. Meanwhile with Ronaldo they aren't. Greenwood and Bruno have more league goals in the 3/4 games prior to Ronaldo signing than they have since he's come in.

You think that's a coincidence ?

Have a look for yourself if you want.
https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/stats/Premier-League-Stats

Get ready for the "Ronaldo Out" banner for the next game.

 

[Pintu]

See this. He is been mostly a poacher for the last 6 years.

His stats are on par with last season. Counting in both Serie A and CL, he scored 25 non-penalty goals for Juventus. And made 4 assists.

You take in PL + CL, he has scored 12 non-penalty goals and has 4 assists this season.

He is exactly the same player, not better, not worse. A player that guarantees a certain amount of goals, it is up to the manager to use him in a way that benefits the team. And eventually, bench him on the games for which he's not the best option.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think it's a limited sample size.

xG, like most predictive statistics, wasn't designed to be used for that type of analysis with a small sample size. Too much noise for you to come to any definitive conclusion. It's meant to be used over a longer period of time, and historically we know Ronaldo has a high xG per game due to him having some of the best movement of all time.

Now bear in mind, if not for his constant unavailability, Cavani to me is also a very good option for the no.9 role because he also historically generates high xG numbers. But as for your analysis, no I don't think it's conclusive enough.

He’s also scored some of the most goals of all time. At what point do you think his movement, finishing and all the other stuff you need to be a top striker will start to fall off a cliff? Would, say, 36 years old be a reasonable guess?

 

[the_cliff]

I think it's a limited sample size.

xG, like most predictive statistics, wasn't designed to be used for that type of analysis with a small sample size. Too much noise for you to come to any definitive conclusion. It's meant to be used over a longer period of time, and historically we know Ronaldo has a high xG per game due to him having some of the best movement of all time.

Now bear in mind Cavani to me is also a very good option for the no.9 role, if not for his constant unavailability. But as for your analysis, no I don't think it's conclusive enough.

I disagree, I think it's a fair analysis of the difference in our 2 centre forwards this season and last. Both have played similar minutes and both have the same players behind them and around them creating for them. The problem with xG for Ronaldo fans is it doesn't suit the agenda that he's a world class finisher.

Get ready for the "Ronaldo Out" banner for the next game.

I have no problem with Ronaldo, I would start Ronaldo in every champions league game because that's where he's performing. But the difference between his EPL and UCL performances are night and day. Maxwell Cornet has as many non penalty league goals as Ronaldo this season for Gods sake.

I don't know if it's the physicality, if Ronaldo wants to perform better in Europe so tries more but it's a fact that his EPL form and performances have been absolutely terrible anybody that states otherwise is clearly biased.

Ronaldo needs to be dropped in the League if we want to have any chance of top 4.

 

[MrEleson]

I have no problem with Ronaldo, I would start Ronaldo in every champions league game because that's where he's performing. But the difference between his EPL and UCL performances are night and day.

I don't know if it's the physicality, if Ronaldo wants to perform better in Europe so tries more but it's a fact that his EPL form and performances have been absolutely terrible anybody that states otherwise is clearly biased.

Ronaldo needs to be dropped in the League if we want to have any chance of top 4.

Dropped for who though? He hasn’t been great but the alternatives haven’t been better either. And don’t you think it’s a bit dramatic to say he “needs to be dropped for us to have any chance of top 4” as if he hasn’t secured crucial points for us already in the league.

 

[the_cliff]

Dropped for who though? He hasn’t been great? But the alternatives haven’t been better either.

The only 2 times we dropped Ronaldo in the league this season (Everton and Chelsea). We were winning until Ronaldo came on.

 

[MrEleson]

The only 2 times we dropped Ronaldo in the league this season (Everton and Chelsea). We were winning until Ronaldo came on.

Correlation doesn’t equal causation. 2 games! Wow. Because he’s attacker, midfielder an defender at the same time.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

For me I don't see why some people can't see why -

Mane - Ronaldo - Salah
​

wouldn't work.

We went from a season where our main central strikers are holding up the ball and bringing others in to play - to a central striker that can't hold up the ball back to goal, has no link up play and is only reliant on the others creativity to him.

So the rest of the team goes to shit when our main central attacker needs creativity - when last season our central striker himself was very important to our creativity and interplay; especially in to inverted forwards.

We don't have enough creativity because Ronaldo needs creativity, which has now turned to our plan A - but we didn't play like a striker needing creativity last season as our Plan A last season either.

The game against Everton where we looked two different teams with Cavani and then by the substitution of Ronaldo as striker was very obvious.

I think that some people look at names and assume that's the way matches play out. Based on star power. Very few look at things the way you do and analyze the balance of a team. You end up with a situation where people are confused because results don't go the way they expect, and they struggle to explain it.

This isn't complicated, but the vast majority of dports fans (particularly football and basketball fans) tend to have a limited understanding of the sport they spend hours watching.

 

[He'sRaldo]

I disagree, I think it's a fair analysis of the difference in our 2 centre forwards this season and last. Both have played similar minutes and both have the same players behind them and around them creating for them. The problem with xG for Ronaldo fans is it doesn't suit the agenda that he's a world class finisher.

Cavani has never really been our main center forward, his availability has been too unpredictable. When I see people wanting Ronaldo dropped, it's usually to "give Greenwood a try" at CF.

And I think you've missed my points that (1) it's less about finishing and more about having the movement to generate chances, especially in a setup as dysfunctional as ours, and (2) Cavani is a good rival to Ronaldo in that department anyway, so no arguments there! If he was more available he would indeed be the ideal CF option, but he's unreliable and wants to leave so no point bringing him up as the alternative to Ronaldo.

 

[the_cliff]

Correlation doesn’t equal causation. 2 games! Wow. Because he’s attacker, midfielder an defender at the same time.

I know it doesn't but I find it funny that people are saying who do we drop him for. We've dropped him in 2 games only and both times we were winning. We've dropped everyone around Ronaldo, his attacking partners, the creative players behind him, still had the same results and same performances. But we don't want to at least try and drop the one constant in all of those bad league performances. That's a step too far.

 

[He'sRaldo]

He’s also scored some of the most goals of all time. At what point do you think his movement, finishing and all the other stuff you need to be a top striker will start to fall off a cliff? Would, say, 36 years old be a reasonable guess?

His physicality, and subsequently technique, have really fallen off, but I'd say he still has the same elite movement.

To me he's pretty much the same player stylistically as the one during the 3-peat, from 2017. He's just being used differently and needing to do a lot more, especially in he PL. So I do think he can be a catalyst for us, but at this stage of his career he needs expert management and maintenance. Especially someone to convince him of when to be rested/dropped, like Zidane did.

 

[bringbackbebe]

I know it doesn't but I find it funny that people are saying who do we drop him for. We've dropped him in 2 games only and both times we were winning. We've dropped everyone around Ronaldo, his attacking partners, the creative players behind him, still had the same results and same performances. But we don't want to at least try and drop the one constant in all of those bad league performances. That's a step too far.

Didn't we drop Ronaldo for the West Ham loss which started our crappy form? The way I see it, he seems to be one of the very few players who cares about winning and performing. We don't have a team to support him, and unfortunately, his support to others goes pretty much a waste.

 

[MrEleson]

I know it doesn't but I find it funny that people are saying who do we drop him for. We've dropped him in 2 games only and both times we were winning. We've dropped everyone around Ronaldo, his attacking partners, the creative players behind him, still had the same results and same performances. But we don't want to at least try and drop the one constant in all of those bad league performances. That's a step too far.

I take it you were hibernating for the games against Southampton and Wolves away where the scoreline more than flattered our performance.

 

[the_cliff]

I take it you were hibernating for the games against Southampton and Wolves away where the scoreline more than flattered our performance.

No, not really, you don't want to mention the Leeds one though. We were always an inconsistent team before Ronaldo, I'm not saying we were world beaters, champions elect. But we're significantly worse now with Ronaldo.

 

[Ayoba]

I bet he wishes he signed for city now

 

[MrEleson]

No, not really, you don't want to mention the Leeds one though. We were always an inconsistent team before Ronaldo, I'm not saying we were world beaters, champions elect. But we're significantly worse now with Ronaldo.

Mention the Leeds one. You were the one trying to make this weird point. The wolves game away this season without him was as bad as any game we played with him in the team. It was a miracle we got anything from that.

 

[the_cliff]

I bet he wishes he signed for city now

I'm sure people would be saying he's carrying City to their 3rd straight league title.

 

[Josh 76]

Didn't we drop Ronaldo for the West Ham loss which started our crappy form? The way I see it, he seems to be one of the very few players who cares about winning and performing. We don't have a team to support him, and unfortunately, his support to others goes pretty much a waste.

He cares about his own performance more than the teams. If you offered him, score a hatrick in every game, but you lose most of them, he would take that.

 

[the_cliff]

Didn't we drop Ronaldo for the West Ham loss which started our crappy form? The way I see it, he seems to be one of the very few players who cares about winning and performing. We don't have a team to support him, and unfortunately, his support to others goes pretty much a waste.

It was the efl cup, he also dropped, Bruno, Greenwood, Mctominay, Fred, Shaw, Varane, Maguire, AWB, DDG. Mata started that game.

That's like taking something out of the second Young Boys game, again where the whole starting 11 was changed.

 

[IhabX7]

He cares about his own performance more than the teams. If you offered him, score a hatrick in every game, but you lose most of them, he would take that.

No he wouldn’t. Ludicrous.

 

[MrEleson]

He cares about his own performance more than the teams. If you offered him, score a hatrick in every game, but you lose most of them, he would take that.

He really wouldn’t. Even for winning personal awards, he knows winning the biggest trophies will provide him his best chance.

 

[Pintu]

I bet he wishes he signed for city now

I don't think he had a real choice. Juventus, while being happy to spare 60 M in wages, kept asking for 20 M transfer fee, and City didn't want to pay that, they wanted him on on a free.

 

[KingCavani]

No he wouldn’t. Ludicrous.

The stuff said about Ronaldo here is just bordering on slanderous. Guy has won just about everything there is to win and people are here acting like he doesn't give a shit about the team.

 

[genardk]

He cares about his own performance more than the teams. If you offered him, score a hatrick in every game, but you lose most of them, he would take that.

The general sentiment for Juve fans is that he cares most about his personal stats. Continuing to take all free-kicks despite his really poor conversion rate (1 out of 72) is an example of that. That of course does not mean that he does not care about trophies, he deeply cares about them too but on the condition that he will be at the center stage after every trophy as he has too big of an ego.

 

[Marwood]

Mason started this season well, he is young and far from the finished article, but he deserves a shot. He's just turned 20 and started last season an 18 year old, and he has deservedly received critisism for bad performances and bad attitude when warranted. He works a lot harder than Ronaldo and the whole team doesn't have to cover for him defensively every match.
Mason has been consitantly overperforming his xG since he was promoted to the first team and is seen as a great finisher with both feet. He could learn a lot from Ronaldo about movement, positional awareness and presence in the box from the old fox, but he won't learn that from playing a supporting winger role and covering defensively for him.

Regarding Bruno and Rashford's stats from 1/1 - 31/8 January last year:
They definitely both had a down swing compared to the first half of last season, but they have also both been even worse since the arrival of Ronaldo. Rashford played 68 games in all comps last season, Bruno played 70. Rashford underwent surgery directly after the EUROs.


The point of the critisism is that stats and numbers indicates that the whole team underperforms with him, not just him. We score lower on every team parameter with him on the pitch than without him. He scores some goals (not as many as he should), but that has so far been at the cost the whole dynamics of our game and his teammates are suffering from it. If he starts to run like any other forward defensively and starts sharing focus in our attacks, maybe there still is use for him, but he doesn't. Right now he makes our wingers and midfielders constantly overloaded, which makes it impossible to play good football.

So Rashford, Bruno amd Greenwood had almost identical scoring problems last season as they've had so far this season. Runs of 20 odd league games barely scoring and general poor or terrible(Rashford) play.

But we're attributing that to reasons x,y,z.

Those obstacles to form have now apparently disappeared after one summer and the exact same goalscoring problems they're having this season are exclusivey down to Ronaldo.

Ronaldo might not be exactly what we need but you guys can't seriously buy into this. It's mental gymnastics at its best.

I'd also add we're having further problems because two of our key players last year, Shaw and Maguire, are having stinkers. Making us look even worse. Now surely nobody is putting their form on Ronaldo.

 

[Bebestation]

And people can't see why we have gotten worse at defending when we have a striker with such low first touch and hold up play ability that all of our team try to now create towards

 

[bakalhau]

If Ronaldo was getting paid the same as Wan-Bissaka, I'm sure the criticism would be proportional. No-one ever complained about people not getting your other strikers enough chances? Why can't Ronaldo get on the same wavelength as the others?

And actually, why can't he stand out at all? Good players stand out at poor/mediocre clubs all the time, in fact most of your best signings have come from bad teams. Saha and Van Der Sar can from a midtable Fulham team because they stood out. Roy Keane came straight from a Forest team literally relegated in last place. Why? He stood out. And there are so many other examples for Man United alone. So why can't the GOAT stand out as a shining beacon in a bad team? And let's be clear, he hasn't shown himself to stand out in a positive way at all.

I actually disagree - I think he's been a stand out. It's one of the few glimmers of hope of this team has had, De Gea mostly has been up there for me too. But I respect your view on it.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

Really interesting. Man Utd had no one in the penalty box last season during attack. This season Ronaldo plays there but now he didn't press enough, dribble enough, run enough and create enough. He is criticized for didn't pass enough to the final third even he is a poacher in the penalty box and the final step of the attacking movement. Interesting. Compare his stats with Salah is even more interesting. One is a poacher in the box, one is a winger/inside forward in a Klopp team that focus on pressing since day one. I will understand if you compare salah's stats with greenwood/sancho/rashord.

 

[bakalhau]

The stuff said about Ronaldo here is just bordering on slanderous. Guy has won just about everything there is to win and people are here acting like he doesn't give a shit about the team.

I agree... There's not even an ounce of... Not respect, but a little bit of education when talking about him. Everyone should be criticized, but people talk about him like he's an evil dude. I mean, even I as much as I like him can understand he's not played that well the last 3 or 4 games... But he deserves some respect from me, because I try to be like that with everyone, but specially him I think deserves a bit more when being talked about... Here's some of the things he's accused of here:

- Being a problem for getting signed (it's his fault, not the management of the club's fault)
- He has game time written down in his contract (seriously...? No one would ever say that about anyone, ever, but it's Ronaldo so...)
- He forces his will on everyone, including penalties and free kicks (last free kick again Wolves Bruno took it...)
- He forces tactical coaches to make decisions that are beneficial to him
- He forces the coach to play him every single game (when he's been left out a few times, or came in as a sub)
- He forces the coach to make the decision to put every player looking for him on the pitch
- He's responsible for the drop in every other player's levels
- He'd be more happy to score hattricks than win trophies (but then when the team loses he's fuming - probably because he hasn't scored, not because he hates losing...)
- He has a terrible attitude with everyone (which is why he was never liked by any of his teammates, anywhere, ever)
- He's responsible for coaches getting sacked
- He's responsible for the team creating less chances
- He's responsible for the team conceding an insane amount of goals

I have to wonder, how does any team in the world sign a player that does all of this? Because he's a terrible player, and a terrible human being. How he even gets a job is beyond me.

Here's what I see:

- Has the best attitude in the squad
- Has the most professionalism in the squad
- Gets criticized for not pressing (fair), not even 2 weeks later he's running everywhere doing it (meanwhile other players show zero improvement)
- Adding to the point above - shows huge commitment to improve in areas that do not benefit his own personaly glory, but the team's interests
- Is the only one who has a sense of urgency when team is losing (runs, ball is out he runs to it to get it in play, others keep going on like there's no urgency)
- Has bailed out the team in numerous occasions, as you'd expect of him, in bad times
- Has same standards for the club as the most die hard fans of the bunch, knows Man United need to do better, knows this is not good enough for the club's status, makes sure to put the message across publicly
- Has fairly recognized he won't play all games, has been absolutely fine coming in as a sub or being subbed, never making a bad face about it or stirring things up because of it
- Has worked within a team context to split certain things with teammates (he rotates free kicks, even last game Bruno took last one, Bruno started on penalties firs this season, Ronaldo didn't complain)


So I see things very differently from so many people here. I think if anything, he's been the standout player. That doesn't mean he's perfect, that doesn't mean he's been incredible (but I can say, maybe, he's been the least worse), that doesn't mean he can't improve, that doesn't mean he can't be criticized.

The dude leaves his blood everywhere, day in day out, out of the pitch, on the pitch, for the club. I look at some others and they're worlds apart. He's the near perfect footballer to have on a team, for all the reasons I described above. If everyone had one ounce of the brains and humbleness this guy has, probably the team would have improved somewhat, even if a little bit. Being humble is not in front of the cameras, or showing confidence. Being humble is being 37 years old, one of the top footballers ever, getting criticized for not pressing, and two weeks later showing a remarkable improvement on said criticisms. Being humble is working day in, day out, understand one can always improve, no matter the circumstances, and actually go and work harder, immediately. He's done that all his life, and has gotten to where he stands today on the basis of hard work and self-improvement.


He needs to be criticized, specially because as everyone could see, he actually gets down to be a better player right after. But c'mon, the insanity on this thread is surreal. He's an evil man that in any team would be terminated on his contract within the first month, because he's a player, a coach, a strategist, a director of football, and CEO, and calls the shots on everything. But apparently any coach is fine with him, but not we the armchair coaches.

 

[MrEleson]

I agree... There's not even an ounce of... Not respect, but a little bit of education when talking about him. Everyone should be criticized, but people talk about him like he's an evil dude. I mean, even I as much as I like him can understand he's not played that well the last 3 or 4 games... But he deserves some respect from me, because I try to be like that with everyone, but specially him I think deserves a bit more when being talked about... Here's some of the things he's accused of here:

- Being a problem for getting signed (it's his fault, not the management of the club's fault)
- He has game time written down in his contract (seriously...? No one would ever say that about anyone, ever, but it's Ronaldo so...)
- He forces his will on everyone, including penalties and free kicks (last free kick again Wolves Bruno took it...)
- He forces tactical coaches to make decisions that are beneficial to him
- He forces the coach to play him every single game (when he's been left out a few times, or came in as a sub)
- He forces the coach to make the decision to put every player looking for him on the pitch
- He's responsible for the drop in every other player's levels
- He'd be more happy to score hattricks than win trophies (but then when the team loses he's fuming - probably because he hasn't scored, not because he hates losing...)
- He has a terrible attitude with everyone (which is why he was never liked by any of his teammates, anywhere, ever)
- He's responsible for coaches getting sacked
- He's responsible for the team creating less chances
- He's responsible for the team conceding an insane amount of goals

I have to wonder, how does any team in the world sign a player that does all of this? Because he's a terrible player, and a terrible human being. How he even gets a job is beyond me.

Here's what I see:

- Has the best attitude in the squad
- Has the most professionalism in the squad
- Gets criticized for not pressing (fair), not even 2 weeks later he's running everywhere doing it (meanwhile other players show zero improvement)
- Adding to the point above - shows huge commitment to improve in areas that do not benefit his own personaly glory, but the team's interests
- Is the only one who has a sense of urgency when team is losing (runs, ball is out he runs to it to get it in play, others keep going on like there's no urgency)
- Has bailed out the team in numerous occasions, as you'd expect of him, in bad times
- Has same standards for the club as the most die hard fans of the bunch, knows Man United need to do better, knows this is not good enough for the club's status, makes sure to put the message across publicly
- Has fairly recognized he won't play all games, has been absolutely fine coming in as a sub or being subbed, never making a bad face about it or stirring things up because of it
- Has worked within a team context to split certain things with teammates (he rotates free kicks, even last game Bruno took last one, Bruno started on penalties firs this season, Ronaldo didn't complain)


So I see things very differently from so many people here. I think if anything, he's been the standout player. That doesn't mean he's perfect, that doesn't mean he's been incredible (but I can say, maybe, he's been the least worse), that doesn't mean he can't improve, that doesn't mean he can't be criticized.

The dude leaves his blood everywhere, day in day out, out of the pitch, on the pitch, for the club. I look at some others and they're worlds apart. He's the near perfect footballer to have on a team, for all the reasons I described above. If everyone had one ounce of the brains and humbleness this guy has, probably the team would have improved somewhat, even if a little bit. Being humble is not in front of the cameras, or showing confidence. Being humble is being 37 years old, one of the top footballers ever, getting criticized for not pressing, and two weeks later showing a remarkable improvement on said criticisms. Being humble is working day in, day out, understand one can always improve, no matter the circumstances, and actually go and work harder, immediately. He's done that all his life, and has gotten to where he stands today on the basis of hard work and self-improvement.


He needs to be criticized, specially because as everyone could see, he actually gets down to be a better player right after. But c'mon, the insanity on this thread is surreal. He's an evil man that in any team would be terminated on his contract within the first month, because he's a player, a coach, a strategist, a director of football, and CEO, and calls the shots on everything.

Excellent post. Couldn’t have put it better.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

The only 2 times we dropped Ronaldo in the league this season (Everton and Chelsea). We were winning until Ronaldo came on.

Funny to see people still make this point about the alternatives when this has been what has happened. Martial actually scored a very good goal in that Everton game and has only played 45 minutes of league football since then.

There are loads of alternative ways we could play, with several players that would run more and hold the ball way better than Ronaldo. But we’d have to stop playing him for 90 minutes in every game to see how they’d do.

 

[the_cliff]

Here's what I see:

- Has the best attitude in the squad
- Has the most professionalism in the squad
- Gets criticized for not pressing (fair), not even 2 weeks later he's running everywhere doing it (meanwhile other players show zero improvement)
- Adding to the point above - shows huge commitment to improve in areas that do not benefit his own personaly glory, but the team's interests
- Is the only one who has a sense of urgency when team is losing (runs, ball is out he runs to it to get it in play, others keep going on like there's no urgency)
- Has bailed out the team in numerous occasions, as you'd expect of him, in bad times
- Has same standards for the club as the most die hard fans of the bunch, knows Man United need to do better, knows this is not good enough for the club's status, makes sure to put the message across publicly
- Has fairly recognized he won't play all games, has been absolutely fine coming in as a sub or being subbed, never making a bad face about it or stirring things up because of it
- Has worked within a team context to split certain things with teammates (he rotates free kicks, even last game Bruno took last one, Bruno started on penalties firs this season, Ronaldo didn't complain)

Unfortunately all of what you 'see' can't be proven by any statistic. There's no statistic that can measure the best attitude or most professionalism. Although judging by the other members of the squad I wouldn't be surprised if that is 100% true.

However, he has the lowest number of presses and defensive actions out of all our attackers, so what you 'see' might not entirely be true.

He also only has 6 non penalty goals in the league. So I don't know where you're getting 'he's constantly bailed us out' from.

People in here are criticising his average league performances which is quite fair. I'm sorry but maybe for you all other aspects of his game that don't translate to the actual football pitch is worth him starting but for me it isn't.

There are plenty of players in world football that have the best attitude and most professionalism but still aren't good enough to play up front for Manchester United.