[André Dominguez]

It just isn’t possible to have a functional team with the player with the single lowest pressing numbers in the top 5 leagues leading the line. In modern football there is no room for passengers. It’s just not possible.

In our actual system, yes, is not possible. For us to be a functional team with Ronaldo we would need a 4x2x3x1, but his hiring was a mistake in a first place. It made sense in a counter system as we played ynder Ole, but if we want to dominate games, then no.

 

[Relevated]

Strange, that. Whenever Cavani’s on the field, he tends to get found. Maybe he’s just a lot better with his runs and movement?

Actually, Cavani runs like a wild beast, and so he gets on the end of bad passes

 

[Buster15]

For anyone who thinks Ronaldo has no movement, go and seek out the 2min video in the Newcastle thread.
Countless examples where he's made a quality run only for the ball to be dreadful.

I actually feel sorry for him amongst this lot. It's killing him. Hopefully we can turn it around when Ralf has actually had more than a few days of the whole squad around to get some training inti.

Good point.
Ronaldo seems to be getting much of the blame for our recent poor performances.
We should all know that strikers have peeks and troughs in their form and goal scoring.
United problems go much much deeper than Ronaldo. That is for sure.

 

[troylocker]

In our actual system, yes, is not possible. For us to be a functional team with Ronaldo we would need a 4x2x3x1, but his hiring was a mistake in a first place. It made sense in a counter system as we played ynder Ole, but if we want to dominate games, then no.

The whole point is that you won’t get those counters when there is no pressing up front. You simply don’t win the ball in those favourable positions as often.
There is not one single player (except goalkeepers) with lower pressing numbers than him in the top 5 leagues. It’s obviously a huge problem. He wouldn’t get a single minute in a Pep or Klopp team.

 

[troylocker]

Dortmund

Great example! He offers nothing….

 

[SAFMUTD]

Unless we make some serious activity in the transfer window, I’d say we definitely won’t make the 4th place. Spurs and Arsenal both look better than us. In the end, maybe it’s a good thing for both parties if he leaves. I certainly don’t think he’s the root cause of our issues, and he’s basically carried us to the CL knockouts. But if we aspire to be a well drilled pressing unit, maybe he doesn’t have a place next season.

At the moment it looks like it, but there's not much difference between Spurs, Arsenal and us point wise and things change quickly. Im amazed how many blame Cristiano as if he's the one stopping us from playing proper football, like we were some kind of City/Liverpool and somehow he's ruining it.

I agree he's not ideal for some pressing teams, but we are not remotly close to being a proper pressing team. Losing Ronaldo at this point would only weaken us further.

 

[Brwned]

Well that’s not true at all he’s shown he very much is an elite finisher with his goals against Spurs and Atalanta, probably the best thing about his game at this age because he hasn’t found the net in a few games doesn’t mean given half a chance he won’t score.

The fact he’s had numerous half chances and hasn’t scored tends to suggest the idea that give him half a chance and he’ll score is just a lazy myth. Including yesterday.

 

[Deery]

The fact he’s had numerous half chances and hasn’t scored tends to suggest the idea that give him half a chance and he’ll score is just a lazy myth. Including yesterday.

Where were these half chances yesterday? He snatched at the shot from an incredibly hard angle not sure why he even tried it I wouldn’t call that a half chance at all.

 

[troylocker]

Where were these half chances yesterday? He snatched at the shot from an incredibly hard angle not sure why he even tried it I wouldn’t call that a half chance at all.

He has scored a couple of worldies for sure, but his output in the PL is 20% below his xG this season. That’s through bad finishing over the season as a whole. His output has been below his npxG the last 5 seasons as well. He is definitely not as clinical as many thinks he is.
He’s been feeding off being the offensive focal point of good teams, his good offensive movement/positional awareness and penalties since 2018. His overall game and finshing has declined a lot since his peak.
His extreme lack of defensive work makes our team bleed both in defense and offense.

 

[Bobski]

Every striker who has played the game in ever league in the world makes many more runs to not get the ball played than runs where it is. Just the nature of the role, Ronaldo draws attention to it with his hand waving.

 

[Joel Miller]

Geez. These threads certainly separate the United fans from the Ronaldo fans.

He’s quite clearly hindering the side overall. As someone else said, a few times people have exclaimed “he saved us”, but who’s to say the side would have needed saving if a more mobile and harder working striker hasn’t been on from the start? Cavani’s attitude and demeanour is far better too it has to be said.

 

[Deery]

He has scored a couple of worldies for sure, but his output in the PL is 20% below his xG this season. That’s through bad finishing over the season as a whole. His output has been below his npxG the last 5 seasons as well. He is definitely not as clinical as many thinks he is.
He’s been feeding off being the offensive focal point of good teams, his good offensive movement/positional awareness and penalties since 2018. His overall game and finshing has declined a lot since his peak.
His extreme lack of defensive work makes our team bleed both in defense and offense.

Maybe due to the fact we’ve been terrible in the league and our manager was actually sacked we were that bad, we had 4 shots on target yesterday against a relegation level team and two of those were speculative efforts from outside the box.

He’s no different to any striker if he isn’t getting service he will undoubtedly come up short.

 

[troylocker]

Maybe due to the fact we’ve been terrible in the league and our manager was actually sacked we were that bad, we had 4 shots on target yesterday against a relegation level team and two of those were speculative efforts from outside the box.

He’s no different to any striker if he isn’t getting service he will undoubtedly come up short.

You don’t know what xG is do you?

 

[Deery]

You don’t know what xG is do you?

Expected goals

 

[Oly Francis]

He’s no different to any poaching striker if he isn’t getting service he will undoubtedly come up short.

Fixed that for you. You have plenty of strikers who can do far more even if they don't get service.

 

[Deery]

Fixed that for you. You have plenty of strikers who can do far more even if they don't get service.

Who Martial? Pull the other one.

 

[Oly Francis]

Who Martial? Pull the other one.

Thought you meant in the entire world, not in United only, Martial is hardly a standard.

 

[troylocker]

Maybe due to the fact we’ve been terrible in the league and our manager was actually sacked we were that bad, we had 4 shots on target yesterday against a relegation level team and two of those were speculative efforts from outside the box.

He’s no different to any striker if he isn’t getting service he will undoubtedly come up short.

Expected goals

Hehe! That is the right words, yes, but do you know what it means?
His goals vs xG ratio this season basically means he gets the service, but can’t find the back of the net. The same goes for his last 5 seasons….

 

[Deery]

Hehe! That is the right words, yes, but do you know what it means?
His goals vs xG ratio this season basically means he gets the service, but can’t find the back of the net. The same goes for his last 5 seasons….

Yeah and who actually decides this XG bollox anyway, from the position on the pitch the angle the shot, the confidence in the team, the pressure on the shot?

A lot more to football that some algorithm telling you that you should score.

If you are playing in a free flowing team full of confidence the goals will come more easily and you’ll pull off things that you wouldn’t necessarily do in a team lacking confidence or playing with a cloud over them.

 

[Oly Francis]

Yeah and who actually decides this XG bollox anyway, from the position on the pitch the angle the shot, the confidence in the team, the pressure on the shot?

A lot more to football that some algorithm telling you that you should score.

If you are playing in a free flowing team full of confidence the goals will come more easily and you’ll pull off things that you wouldn’t necessarily do in a team lacking confidence or playing with a cloud over them.

That's actually exactly how expected goals are calculated.

 

[Deery]

That's actually exactly how expected goals are calculated.

Yeah and who decides it? You could pick up a ball 10 times on the corner of the box and your shot would be different every time .

Are we talking about Ronaldo’s XG from 60 goals a season striker to what he is now or comparing him with the XG of a basic striker?

 

[troylocker]

Yeah and who actually decides this XG bollox anyway, from the position on the pitch the angle the shot, the confidence in the team, the pressure on the shot?

A lot more to football that some algorithm telling you that you should score.

If you are playing in a free flowing team full of confidence the goals will come more easily and you’ll pull off things that you wouldn’t necessarily do in a team lacking confidence or playing with a cloud over them.

Directly into denial-mode. How does team confidence make an impact on a 37 year old GOAT goalscorer’s goals vs xG ratio? He should handle that better than anyone on the planet.

He has been very ineffective in the League this season and his footballing abilities are all trending downwards. He is human and his time on the elite level is behind him. Happens to everyone.
An average top 5 league forward would probably score a couple more in his boots this season and would 100% contribute more than him in all other aspects of the game.

 

[Devil may care]

It's been a weird return, after the initial buzz he's scored some important goals but he seems like he's on the periphery, he doesn't seem to do post match interviews, he walks off on his own quite often after games and just seems aloof, like he's not here, he's just passing through.

 

[Oly Francis]

Yeah and who decides it? You could pick up a ball 10 times on the corner of the box and your shot would be different every time .

Are we talking about Ronaldo’s XG from 60 goals a season striker to what he is now or comparing him with the XG of a basic striker?

Depends on the model but it's usually calculated using opta stats from top 5-7 leagues and national teams. It's obviously not compared to Ronaldo's own xG, it's an average of what a standard player from a major league would do.

 

[Deery]

Directly into denial-mode. How does team confidence make an impact on a 37 year old GOAT goalscorer’s goals vs xG ratio? He should handle that better than anyone on the planet.

He has been very ineffective in the League this season and his footballing abilities are all trending downwards. He is human and his time on the elite level is behind him. Happens to everyone.
An average top 5 league forward would probably score a couple more in his boots this season and would 100% contribute more than him in all other aspects of the game.

Haha! A striker in a team that were so bad they have to go through a regime change and in the process of a new system change would probably score more goals, you have no idea how any other striker would cope right now..

 

[troylocker]

Yeah and who decides it? You could pick up a ball 10 times on the corner of the box and your shot would be different every time .

Are we talking about Ronaldo’s XG from 60 goals a season striker to what he is now or comparing him with the XG of a basic striker?

Ok. Let me explain:
The only xG or npxG we are measuring him on is for the actual chances he’s had for us this season. An average finisher in the top 5 leagues has a goal output equal to his xG or npxG.
Ronaldo has had a negative output compared to his nxpG in LaLiga and Serie A for 5 straight seasons before this season and so far this is the worst of them all. Currently he sits 29% below his npxG in the EPL this season, which is very weak. Most strikers have dry spells now and then of course, so this might improve, but he’s gotten enough service to have better numbers.
He is still very good at getting at the end of chances, but he doesn’t offer much else and that is the main problem with him.

 

[Deery]

Ok. Let me explain:
The only xG or npxG we are measuring him on is for the actual chances he’s had for us this season. An average finisher in the top 5 leagues has a goal output equal to his xG or npxG.
Ronaldo has had a negative output compared to his nxpG in LaLiga and Serie A for 5 straight seasons before this season and so far this is the worst of them all. Currently he sits 29% below his npxG in the EPL this season, which is very weak. Most strikers have dry spells now and then of course, so this might improve, but he’s gotten enough service to have better numbers.
He is still very good at getting at the end of chances, but he doesn’t offer much else and that is the main problem with him.

That’s because he was scoring 60 goals a season in a team that won the Champions league what 4 times, I really don’t see him being given many clear cut chances this season so far. Any striker in world football’s XG would go down moving from such a team to a different league and gaining more years in the process, no one’s expecting Real Madrid Ronaldo but he has proven with goals this season he is still a good finisher and done things none of our forwards would do.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

He's still world class in the box but the rest of his game has seriously deteriorated. Offers us nothing at all when we don't have the ball.

 

[troylocker]

Haha! A striker in a team that were so bad they have to go through a regime change and in the process of a new system change would probably score more goals, you have no idea how any other striker would cope right now..

My point is that Ronaldo and what he brings on and off the pitch in my mind is the biggest reason why we have been falling apart this season despite him scoring some important goals. That combined with manager(s) lacking the balls to drop him.
I’ve played as a striker on the 4th/5th tier myself for 20 seasons on senior level and am aware of the dynamics of team flow and good/bad streaks. Not the same on the lower levels of course, but I expect the «best of the best» to go ahead and lead by example. He doesn’t. When his workrate is abysmal and he scores less than expected, why are we paying him 30M a year?

 

[sebsheep]

He does have 6 goals from a less than 3xg in the CL though so...

 

[Red the Bear]

Where does this this idea of him being utilized as a super sub coming from? There has been nothing and I mean nothing in the past to suggest he'd be any good from the bench, if anything he'll be struggling to get in the game.

He is the type of the player you play no matter what and his best performances came during one our more congested period, Fergie knew this so did Zidane anceloti mourhhio and even at juve they knew that as long as the good outweigh the bad in which case for ronaldo there is plenty you keep playing him

The way I see it with ronaldo is we either :

A: play him constantly and get them clutch goals which he already provided in many games specifically in ucl and cater to him

Or B : we find out that we play better without him than with him and then bench him for the remainder of the season and parts easy at the end of the summer

Option b is almost impossible as you just won't do it with a character of his standing in the dressing room and the financial side of it but from a footballing stand point, this was the case from the moment he came back on everything else is denial

 

[Deery]

My point is that Ronaldo and what he brings on and off the pitch in my mind is the biggest reason why we have been falling apart this season despite him scoring some important goals. That combined with manager(s) lacking the balls to drop him.
I’ve played as a striker on the 4th/5th tier myself for 20 seasons on senior level and am aware of the dynamics of team flow and good/bad streaks. Not the same on the lower levels of course, but I expect the «best of the best» to go ahead and lead by example. He doesn’t. When his workrate is abysmal and he scores less than expected, why are we paying him 30M a year?

Well we know the answer to that he brings in commercial revenue and fans. That’s what the board were probably looking at as much as his playing ability, like it or not we’re run as a business and the star player with high profile is the big ticket for us.

I still think he’ll have a lot to offer this season and will bring a few more quality moments before the end of the season, but yeah if it wasn’t for brand Ronaldo I don’t think he’d be on such wages.

 

[jesperjaap]

The whole point is that you won’t get those counters when there is no pressing up front. You simply don’t win the ball in those favourable positions as often.
There is not one single player (except goalkeepers) with lower pressing numbers than him in the top 5 leagues. It’s obviously a huge problem. He wouldn’t get a single minute in a Pep or Klopp team.

Absolutely....eh? Why were City trying to sign him then?

Criticism of Ronaldo on here is absoltuely ridiculous 19 games 13 goals in a side barely creating chances. I dont know what people are expecting, the old Ronaldo ended years ago, create chances he will get goals and criticising his pressing, really? We only have two players in the whole side who seem able to press and that Fernandes and Cavani.

The only criticism I have is that we went all in for Ronaldo at the last minute when we should have been going all out for a central midfielder

 

[The Corinthian]

Won some random award.

 

[Jericho]

Where does this this idea of him being utilized as a super sub coming from? There has been nothing and I mean nothing in the past to suggest he'd be any good from the bench, if anything he'll be struggling to get in the game.

He is the type of the player you play no matter what and his best performances came during one our more congested period, Fergie knew this so did Zidane anceloti mourhhio and even at juve they knew that as long as the good outweigh the bad in which case for ronaldo there is plenty you keep playing him

The way I see it with ronaldo is we either :

A: play him constantly and get them clutch goals which he already provided in many games specifically in ucl and cater to him

Or B : we find out that we play better without him than with him and then bench him for the remainder of the season and parts easy at the end of the summer

Option b is almost impossible as you just won't do it with a character of his standing in the dressing room and the financial side of it but from a footballing stand point, this was the case from the moment he came back on everything else is denial

If he’s truly a world class player then he absolutely should be able to make some kind of an impact off the bench with half an hour to go. He won’t want to settle for that of course, but that’s besides the point.

At one time he may have been a “play him no matter what” player, but he’s closing on 37 now and he’s a much different player to the one those managers you listed managed.

He’s clearly still got a lot to offer, and I don’t think he’s the problem exactly, but given how poor we are it’s very difficult for us to accommodate him. Cavani’s workrate helps to paper over the cracks.

 

[AaronRedDevil]

Could have easily scored 2 goals if we had competent players. Also not saying cavani isn't competent. He's the one player that can hold his head up high. But he probably should have passed it to Ronaldo who was wide open to take a shot at the met instead of trying to chip 3 players when the gk was out. Those moments turns a game. Fustrating draw but united were lucky too.

 

[troylocker]

He does have 6 goals from a less than 3xg in the CL though so...

Hard to argue against the superimportant winners and equalizers he’s given us in the CL this season. Still great, but it’s 3,2 xG. I wish he would play with the same energy and focus in the League.
Funfact:
In CL, 65% (13/20) of his shots were on target.
In the League, only 36% (17/47) of his shots were on target.

Not so fun fact:
Ronaldo has played 1579 minutes for us this season. Cavani has played 321 minutes. We have won the ball 23 times (1,3 times/90) within 5 seconds of a Ronaldo pressing this season. We have won the ball 17 times (4,8 times/90) within 5 seconds of a Cavani pressing. 27 goals scored and 30 goals conceded with Ronaldo on the pitch. 9 goals scored and 1 goal conceded with Cavani on the pitch…….
How is that not a problem?

 

[Red the Bear]

If he’s truly a world class player then he absolutely should be able to make some kind of an impact off the bench with half an hour to go. He won’t want to settle for that of course, but that’s besides the point.

At one time he may have been a “play him no matter what” player, but he’s closing on 37 now and he’s a much different player to the one those managers you listed managed.

He’s clearly still got a lot to offer, and I don’t think he’s the problem exactly, but given how poor we are it’s very difficult for us to accommodate him. Cavani’s workrate helps to paper over the cracks.

Some players are just not good of the bench while some relish it case in point our very own ole ,some just need to star from the get go to get a feel in or warm up to

I too think he still has a lot to offer but I don't think there's middle point between him not starting at all or getting the bench

 

[Eli Zee]

Sub for most EPL games... starter for Europe?

Would that be a simply stated way of getting the best of him?

 

[Lay]

Sub for most EPL games... starter for Europe?

Would that be a simply stated way of getting the best of him?

For me, yes. He’s suited more for Europe