[SATA]

I don’t even think he’s an elite finisher anymore. Seem to miss more half chances and proper chances than scoring from them nowadays. The attempted left foot volley he tried in the first half was hilariously stupid to do when he had no angle to shoot properly at goal. Also looks tremendously weak when receiving and shielding the ball compared to someone like Zlatan now at 38/39 years of age.

 

[Idxomer]

I don’t even think he’s an elite finisher anymore. Seem to miss more half chances and proper chances than scoring from them nowadays. The attempted left foot volley he tried in the first half was hilariously stupid to do when he had no angle to shoot properly at goal. Also looks tremendously weak when receiving and shielding the ball compared to someone like Zlatan now at 38/39 years of age.

That's been noticeable since he came back. He has lost his agility and pace and feels rushed in most of his decisions.

 

[D. Mungai]

If Ronaldo doesn't score he's not worth his place. But then again he scores more often than not.

How many non Penalty goals in the league does he have for you say he scores more often than not

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Another one is at his very peak Ronaldo averaged 3.1 dribbles per game, now current Ronaldo averages 0.7 dribbles per game. It would open up so much space for others and be the difference of breaking a deadlock of a game when Ronaldo could dribble through a team and keep scoring. We’re getting a severely reduced version these days.

to compare Ronaldo at his peak league form to Ronaldo now in these categories:

Aerials won per game
Peak Ronaldo 1.8
Current Ronaldo 1

Tackles per game
Peak Ronaldo 0.6
Current Ronaldo 0.1

Key passes per game
Peak Ronaldo 2.6
Current Ronaldo 0.6

Dribbles per game
Peak Ronaldo 3.1
Current Ronaldo 0.7

The dribbles per game stat is particularly striking.

I'd love to know -- how does he make everyone a worse player?

He takes up spaces that other players would inhabit, he is an intimidating figure and players feel they have to serve him and look for him for passes rather than play their regular game. When they mess up they’ll often get a scolding look rather than an encouraging one.

The game is built around his talents rather than other player’s talents. His cult of personality is essentially bigger than the club (what other player has way more followers online than the club they’re joining?), which means that he must play. He doesn’t press so other players have to cover for him.

He takes all our free kicks even though he’s no good at them any more. In general play he doesn’t dribble or really get that involved any more and when he does he’s often stiff and limited unless the ball is dropping for him in the box, and he isn’t the sort of player who is going to make a decoy run to make space for Fernandes, is he? So it creates fewer chances for them overall.

 

[bakalhau]

But KeanuMagicHat, he's an intimidating figure, and makes everyone around him worse and that's one of the reasons why? That's speculating, and I can speculate then as well if any player finds the opportunity to play with what's been a special player in world football intimidating, then said player probably is not made for top level football, as if you get intimidated by some gestures and the mere presence of a single dude in your team, you gotta wonder how that player will buckle under situations of actually hard pressure on them. How will they act/perform with an intimidating coach...? And I'm speculating just as much as you, just pointing fingers about something I don't know but directing my fingers at everyone else. It's easy to twist things we have no idea what we're talking about, in all fairness.

Cavani in the 2nd half yesterday also had a "negative" gesture towards a teammate when he didn't receive the ball in a good position. In Juve against Lyon in CL 2 seasons ago, you can find Dybala and Ronaldo gesturing to their teammates all game and even commenting during halftime on how they're left alone up top with no service. This happens all the time in every football game, but since it's Ronaldo doing it, it's toxic, like these players only ever meet during the game, and things don't get talked about during the week and they don't chat to try and improve as a team, and talk about plays that went wrong or right.

Gestures, good ones and bad ones, happen all the freaking time in a game. Ronaldo yesterday several times clapped or incentivized their teammates whenever their thought process was good, even though the execution was bad. He waves his arms around when he feels the thought process was wrong, but clearly has been incentivizing as well whenever they execute wrong but think right (in his view). No one sees that. He's a fair bloke, who cares more about decision making than execution. If you had a good idea, and execute it badly, he'll recognize that. If it's the inverse, he'll throw his arms around.

Look, you'll be hard pressed to find someone here who loves the dude as much as I do, but if the players treat him like some sort of god, or the coach, that's not on him, it's on them. I'm gonna go along with the speculation here, and if the players do treat him like that and make emotional decisions on a football pitch they share with him, then they need to sort out their heads. I'd tell them to cut the bullcrap with Ronaldo, and start looking to him as another player just like everyone else. Because he may as well be a god in my own head, but even I can understand the basic notion that you can't put him on a pedestal when there's 11 players on the pitch.


There's this notion that he's calling shots every 5 minutes on the training ground, and that is absolutety never the idea I got from Ronaldo. No other player in the world does that, yet this guy is apparently a player, and a tactical coach that intructs Ralf and commands every player on the pitch to play for him.

Going along with the what ifs here, if the coach and players are putting him on a godlike level, they need to cut it ASAP. Play as a goddamn team, play for everyone. Don't play for him, he doesn't need every attack to be driven to him. Play as a cohesive unit. I can guarantee the end result will be better for us, and ironically, even better for Ronaldo's numbers.



Edit: Truly sorry for the 2 walls of text guys.

 

[Oly Francis]

I don’t even think he’s an elite finisher anymore. Seem to miss more half chances and proper chances than scoring from them nowadays. The attempted left foot volley he tried in the first half was hilariously stupid to do when he had no angle to shoot properly at goal. Also looks tremendously weak when receiving and shielding the ball compared to someone like Zlatan now at 38/39 years of age.

For what it's worth, he should have scored 8.52 goals according to his expected goals stat in the PL and he scored 7, so at the moment he's clearly not an elite finisher.at least in the PL.

 

[lex talionis]

Ronaldo needs to be rotated. Not an excuse for yesterday of course, but looking ahead he can’t play 2-3 times a week. At least not full 90s.

 

[BluesJr]

I didn’t want to believe it but I am coming round to the idea that we’d be in a much better position without him. He’s too big a presence and he doesn’t help the team in general play at all. We can obviously point to his goals etc but it’s just as easily possible we’d have won those games a different way had he not been here.

I love him and always will but it was the wrong move and it’s cost us big time.

 

[Relevated]

He made, minimum, about 8 runs yday that would have out us in clear goal scoring opportunities. He was found in none of em.

 

[Berbasbullet]

He made, minimum, about 8 runs yday that would have out us in clear goal scoring opportunities. He was found in none of em.

If Bruno got that ball right he’d have scored. Frustrating.

 

[bakalhau]

If Bruno got that ball right he’d have scored. Frustrating.

Most important thing is he gets these balls. I'd rather they misplace the pass instead of never trying whenever he makes a run. If they try, some passes will be good and he'll score.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Most important thing is he gets these balls. I'd rather they misplace the pass instead of never trying whenever he makes a run. If they try, some passes will be good and he'll score.

100% players need to play without fear.

 

[We need an rvn]

I'd love to know -- how does he make everyone a worse player?

Because the team need to adapt and change the way they play in order to accommodate him.

It's not like it's a 24 year old Ronaldo or Messi where you go...OMG, build the team around this fella that will play week in week out and get better...he's getting older and living off his well deserved name but that does mean you the squad and system have to change when he plays

 

[ClassOf'99]

Rashford x2, Fred x2, Bruno, Dalot, Cavani, Sancho x1 just in that video posted a page back.

8 passes (I've excluded the hopefuls that Ronaldo wanted) that our players should be making, that would put Ronaldo in a perfect position to score but he is the problem?

Come on, you give him proper service we walk that game, it took Cavani 3 attempts to score and it could've be more after 2 more misques or poor decisions.

If that's any of the other top 4 team, the passes land and they win 3/4+ to 1 yesterday, the whole team are guilty of not being a unit, with pressing, passing, or working as a team, to blame it all on Ronaldo is scapegoat syndrome again that a majority seem to love.

 

[Relevated]

I'd love to know -- how does he make everyone a worse player?

Because he makes very good runs, and the players attempt to pass to him. They're very bad passers and become under pressure when trying to do their job of finding him, and so Ronaldo is to blame for making a good run.

 

[steffyr2]

Because he makes very good runs, and the players attempt to pass to him. They're very bad passers and become under pressure when trying to do their job of finding him, and so Ronaldo is to blame for making a good run.

Oh. I'm glad you explained that!
My impression from watching yesterday is that they can do it in practice, but screw the passes up in a game.

 

[RuudTom83]

Something I feel has sense of role reversals is how Ruud felt annoyed with an inconsistent young Ronaldo, and how it was the downfall of his time and why he left the club.

Ronaldo is now in the position Ruud found himself, and is getting frustrated with his younger teammates.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Tbh, i think that Cavani is better player right now and offers much more than Ronaldo. Maybe to start with both of them?

 

[DWelbz19]

He made, minimum, about 8 runs yday that would have out us in clear goal scoring opportunities. He was found in none of em.

Strange, that. Whenever Cavani’s on the field, he tends to get found. Maybe he’s just a lot better with his runs and movement?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He made, minimum, about 8 runs yday that would have out us in clear goal scoring opportunities. He was found in none of em.

That’s life as a striker. You make dozens runs over 90 minutes hoping to get picked out on one of them. If that’s not working then a top striker will try and make something happen for himself.

The idea that just because he made 8 good runs and didn’t get a clear cut chance means the rest of the team are to blame for him not scoring is obviously ridiculous.

 

[VanDeBank]

It's the type of performance where nothing was going to work for him, even if he had another 300 minutes on the pitch.

Ideally, if you're team is a well oiled machine you can sub a forward like that off. It happens, I'm not forgetting how good he's been for most of the season unlike the "you're as good as your last game" posters.

 

[steffyr2]

Because the team need to adapt and change the way they play in order to accommodate him.

It's not like it's a 24 year old Ronaldo or Messi where you go...OMG, build the team around this fella that will play week in week out and get better...he's getting older and living off his well deserved name but that does mean you the squad and system have to change when he plays

Oh. And it's too much to expect these highly paid players to bre able to change their games when they get a new teammate. Are you sure? you've thought that through

 

[We need an rvn]

Oh. And it's too much to expect these highly paid players to bre able to change their games when they get a new teammate. Are you sure? you've thought that through

I'm assuming based on your last few posts on this page to myself and others that you are new to football...I won't waste my time going further

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It's the type of performance where nothing was going to work for him, even if he had another 300 minutes on the pitch.

Ideally, if you're team is a well oiled machine you can sub a forward like that off. It happens, I'm not forgetting how good he's been for most of the season unlike the "you're as good as your last game" posters.

Never mind the last game, how about the last 12 league games? In which he’s scored a grand total of 2 goals in open play.

 

[Dolf]

Should start him on the left. He clearly still has the stamina for it.

 

[DWelbz19]

That’s life as a striker. You make dozens runs over 90 minutes hoping to get picked out on one of them. If that’s not working then a top striker will try and make something happen for himself.

The idea that just because he made 8 good runs and didn’t get a clear cut chance means the rest of the team are to blame for him not scoring is obviously ridiculous.

Or you involve yourself in the build-up play, which Ronaldo never does.

 

[VanDeBank]

Never mind the last game, how about the last 12 league games? In which he’s scored a grand total of 2 goals in open play.

Champions League doesn't count now? 12 isn't a large sample size btw and we've been shit all across, that affects a RvN type fox in the box as much as anybody. He's barely had service.

 

[Lay]

His general play is nonexistent. He can’t lose the defender either. He’s great in the UCL but in the league he’s mediocre at best. I think he will make an impact in the knockout rounds but the league? Maybe just in the home games.

 

[Matt851]

We've played without him and saw the same performances. It's not Ronaldo vs play style, he can be very useful in whatever style we go for. There's a huge mental issue at play here with players not being able to handle the pressure of having a squad that's supposed to compete for the league. It's the manager's job to sort this out. He talks about psychology and sells a sophisticated persona, we're gonna have to wait and see if he can actually produce.

We finished second last season so performances have obviously gone downhill. I can't think of another top team in Europe that carries a poacher like him

 

[sebsheep]

Because the team need to adapt and change the way they play in order to accommodate him.

It's not like it's a 24 year old Ronaldo or Messi where you go...OMG, build the team around this fella that will play week in week out and get better...he's getting older and living off his well deserved name but that does mean you the squad and system have to change when he plays

Although there is certainly a point to be made about how the team has to play to get the best out of him, the whole changing the way we play argument sort of falls apart when you're talking to people who watched United before Ronaldo joined though.

 

[The Irish Connection]

Frankly I rather think it's bonkers when I read people stating with absolute certainty that he's not the problem, or even a part of the problem. Not because I'm equally convinced of the opposite, but because basic common sense should dictate that when a team deteriorates and struggles the way we have, simultaneously with bringing in a high impact player like him, then that raises a reasonable question whether that impact has been for the good. Also, it is a relatively widespread view that he brought problems as well as benefits at his former club, and no disagreement that he is a player who requires his teammates to adapt to him. That in itself means it's always going to be a plus/minus tradeoff.

For my part, I was sceptical about the wisdom of bringing him into the mix when we signed him, I am not less sceptical today and I will probably remain sceptical for as long as our offensive game continues to look as out of sorts as it has for almost all of this season. If somebody had asked me back then exactly what sort of negative consequences I was fearing, the answer would have been approximately just what have been seeing: A loss of attacking cohesion and flow, worse performance from other key attackers, disruption of squad harmony and over-reliance and excessive focus on him. But I'm not going to jump to the conclusion that those fears were justified and correct - it is possible that there are other reasons. And I enjoy his wonderful goals and clever striker movement as much as anyone, plus he deserves a good deal of credit for stealing wins in clutch games we had no business winning.

Ok, fair enough and you’re entitled to be skeptical if you want but on the points you made: we had already deteriorated as an attacking unit before Ronaldo came in, towards the end of last season and in the early games this season, after the Leeds game. There was a lack of intensity throughout the team and we were incredibly sloppy and wasteful in attack. Maguire and Shaw were so poor. Our midfield gave every second pass away.
in the game yesterday, there were several candidates who gave the ball away at least double the amount that Ronaldo did. If Bruno had executed that ball over the top properly to him in the first half , I’d have been confident of a goal.
he shouldnt be undroppable, but he is pulling his weight far more than others.

 

[The Irish Connection]

We finished second last season so performances have obviously gone downhill. I can't think of another top team in Europe that carries a poacher like him

Chelsea, Leicester.

 

[DWelbz19]

Chelsea, Leicester.

Lukaku doesn’t seem to be massively trusted, and Chelsea probably look more cohesive without the poacher - they in fact opted for a false 9 in their Champions League final to great success.

Leicester are in the Conference League. Hardly the most glowing endorsement for goal poaching forwards.

 

[The Irish Connection]

Lukaku doesn’t seem to be massively trusted, and Chelsea probably look more cohesive without the poacher - they in fact opted for a false 9 in their Champions League final to great success.

Leicester are in the Conference League. Hardly the most glowing endorsement for goal poaching forwards.

Dortmund

 

[Beachryan]

Hate that Jonathan Wilson is looking pretty right here...

Movement is important. Ronaldo's is elite...over about 5 yards - and only when an attacker has managed to create some space for a cross.
He doesn't show enough, doesn't pull CBs out wide to create space, and doesn't win that many headers you'd expect from a 'big' CF.

I still don't understand why we're not using him for at most 60 mins a match, mainly as a super sub.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Chelsea, Leicester.

Chelsea have spent most of the last year playing midfielders up front. And when Lukaku plays he offers way more physical presence than Ronaldo.

 

[Sandikan]

For anyone who thinks Ronaldo has no movement, go and seek out the 2min video in the Newcastle thread.
Countless examples where he's made a quality run only for the ball to be dreadful.

I actually feel sorry for him amongst this lot. It's killing him. Hopefully we can turn it around when Ralf has actually had more than a few days of the whole squad around to get some training inti.

 

[The Irish Connection]

Chelsea have spent most of the last year playing midfielders up front. And when Lukaku plays he offers way more physical presence than Ronaldo.

Yes, but Lukaku cost 100m and Ronaldo currently has more goals than him and was still edging him when Lukaku was fit. Chelsea have been playing midfielders up front because Lukaku was injured. You can sure as hell bet that Tuchel would prefer to have his 100m poacher in the team.
Edit:the ball bounces off Lukaku like it did when he was with us but Chelsea still paid 100m for him

On Leicester, until recently they have been in and around the top 4 in what is considered the best league in the world playing with Vardy up front. Ronaldo is essentially Vardy now, great movement, bursts of speed and finishing but doesn’t do much else other than lay it off and get into the box.
Ronaldo is better than Cavani but because Ronaldo threw his arms up in the air after some shit passes his way, people now want to bin Ronaldo.

 

[troylocker]

He would be a good goal scorer in a functional team. We are too disfunctional as a team to use him properly. At this stage of his career he's not a game changer, but more a game solver.

It just isn’t possible to have a functional team with the player with the single lowest pressing numbers in the top 5 leagues leading the line. In modern football there is no room for passengers. It’s just not possible.

 

[Deery]

I don’t even think he’s an elite finisher anymore. Seem to miss more half chances and proper chances than scoring from them nowadays. The attempted left foot volley he tried in the first half was hilariously stupid to do when he had no angle to shoot properly at goal. Also looks tremendously weak when receiving and shielding the ball compared to someone like Zlatan now at 38/39 years of age.

Well that’s not true at all he’s shown he very much is an elite finisher with his goals against Spurs and Atalanta, probably the best thing about his game at this age because he hasn’t found the net in a few games doesn’t mean given half a chance he won’t score.