Cop in America doing a bad job, again

oates said:
Maybe, and here's an idea, could just one or two people suggest the same issues to him or otherwise it looks like what it is, a pile on in the CE?
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I'm not sure how that would work in practice... To be fair he threw raw meat in a shark tank the outcome was pretty predictable.

ivaldo said:
Oh so now you want to discuss?
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No..... I don't actually....
 
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afrocentricity said:
I'm not sure how that would work in practice... To be fair he threw raw meat in a shark tank the outcome was pretty predictable.
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I don't know. Maybe something along the lines of - I've seen someone ask exactly the same thing I want to ask, it's covered. Maybe.
 
Then again, that poster didn't express the clever way I could put it and bite harder and get more blood in the water.
 
Cassidy said:
You dont hand the jury a list. But prosecution can make reference to past offence when attesting to your character in certain circumstances as far as I know.
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The first condition is that you need to be in a situation where you testify on your behalf and from that point the jurisprudence will determine whether it is admissible or not. So the answer is yes your past can be used against you but only under specific conditions which can differ slightly depending on where you are and the precedents existing.
 
Suedesi said:
Atlanta cop who shot Rayshard Brooks had been reported TWELVE TIMES for misconduct - including once for excessive use of force with a gun
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This is part of the problem like in that tweet I shared before. A guy who pepper sprayed a teenager on a stoop was at his 9th police department. Chauvin had been reported multiple times.

There's far too much of a culture of protecting the faulty regardless. I get why as a team they'd want to promote togetherness, but far too often bad cops are protected by their departments and unions. It's way too hard to get rid of the bad ones and the good ones are complicit for fear of being called out for breaking the line.

That's one of the reasons why if I was American I'd support abolishing departments, reworking their budgets to less militarization (special units alone being so well decked out) and rehiring the good cops with new recruits to get a new culture. Also, make it easier to get rid of bad cops while still having unions to protect the cops for most things.
 
oates said:
Maybe, and here's an idea, could just one or two people suggest the same issues to him or otherwise it looks like what it is, a pile on in the CE?
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I don't get this line of thinking. If someone makes a post I disagree with, am I not entitled to reply to it, just to avoid it looking like a 'pile on'? Multiple people respond to posts all the time, it's not that big of a deal. In the football forums when multiple people disagree with a post it's not an issue, why should it be any different here?
 
Cloud7 said:
I don't get this line of thinking. If someone makes a post I disagree with, am I not entitled to reply to it, just to avoid it looking like a 'pile on'? Multiple people respond to posts all the time, it's not that big of a deal. In the football forums when multiple people disagree with a post it's not an issue, why should it be any different here?
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Of course you are entitled. Forget I said anything.
 
GiddyUp said:
Bang bang, don't disrespect me is how it went. Multiple violent actions committed my arse. What have you got to say on the individual police officer? Bit of a fecking cnut wasn't he. Your brotherhood is full to the brim with people like that and you guys do fecking nothing.
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You’re right, the multiple videos released were all fake. I just imagined Brooks’ aggressive actions in my head. 100% peacefully complied.
 
WI_Red said:
I don't think it means what you think it means.

"Justice is blind" refers to all accused being treated the same the courts, not that the victim and accused are the same.

The accused and the victim are not equal parties in a trial. One side is on trial while the other is the aggrieved party. You can't have "contributing factors" to being a victim, while past actions can speak to motive or likelihood of guilt.
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Character evidence is typically inadmissible during the trial phase, especially if being introduced by the prosecution, as it could unfairly bias the jury against the presumed innocence of the defendant.

The defense may use character witnesses during the trial phase, but that opens those witnesses up to cross examination by the prosecution. Once the defense has opened the door for that circumstantial evidence, the prosecution is free to attack it.

Character evidence can be brought up in the sentencing phase by both parties, as they will attempt to use it to get a harsher or more lenient sentence for a convicted defendant.
 
Carolina Red said:
Character evidence is typically inadmissible during the trial phase, especially if being introduced by the prosecution, as it could unfairly bias the jury against the presumed innocence of the defendant.

The defense may use character witnesses during the trial phase, but that opens those witnesses up to cross examination by the prosecution. Once the defense has opened the door for that circumstantial evidence, the prosecution is free to attack it.

Character evidence can be brought up in the sentencing phase by both parties, as they will attempt to use it to get a harsher or more lenient sentence for a convicted defendant.
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It can also be brought in (potentially) if the defendant testifies.

My feeling (yes feeling, b/c my law degree is from the University of Dick Wolf......which actually is a phenomenal porn name) is that the police officers past record is relevant b/c:

-He is a public servant paid to protect society.
-Part of the problem we are seeing protested is cops with laundry lists of complaints escaping real punishment or switching departments.
-It provides context to why the city so rapidly fired him.

So often in these cases it seems like the victims past gets massacred. Often it is the police or their surrogates who are doing it to get ahead of a potential charge. I know it is just feeling and emotion, but it’s kinda cathartic to see the tables turned.
 
WI_Red said:
It can also be brought in (potentially) if the defendant testifies.

My feeling (yes feeling, b/c my law degree is from the University of Dick Wolf......which actually is a phenomenal porn name) is that the police officers past record is relevant b/c:

-He is a public servant paid to protect society.
-Part of the problem we are seeing protested is cops with laundry lists of complaints escaping real punishment or switching departments.
-It provides context to why the city so rapidly fired him.

So often in these cases it seems like the victims past gets massacred. Often it is the police or their surrogates who are doing it to get ahead of a potential charge. I know it is just feeling and emotion, but it’s kinda cathartic to see the tables turned.
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If the officer takes the stand, then yes, there are some exceptions, which are aimed at impeaching the witness and attacking their credibility.

Otherwise, the prosecution is prohibited from first introducing character evidence against a defendant during trial.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rule_404
 
When I was watching the video, I was thinking about how that would have panned out in the UK. If the two police officers hadn't been able to detain him after he got hold of the taser, he'd have run away. At that point, the police would have alerted their control centre, other cars would have been mobilised and there would have been a search. A drunk man on foot isn't going to get far - the main concern would have been the fact that he had a taser, but I doubt he'd have been aiming it at members of the public.

He'd have eventually been arrested and it would probably all have been a fairly small incident. Armed police are the difference.
 
Carolina Red said:
If the officer takes the stand, then yes, there are some exceptions, which are aimed at impeaching the witness and attacking their credibility.

Otherwise, the prosecution is prohibited from first introducing character evidence against a defendant during trial.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rule_404
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This is how I understood it too. The prosecution have to apply to the judge for such information to be considered and often the judge will only allow past offences which speak to the credibility of the defendant. Now in the court of public opinion it seems everything is fair game but it is interesting to note the hypocrisy on display. Not being familiar with internal police disciplinary processes makes it difficult to know what this guy has done in the past, but the evidence in this current crime seems to be enough to convict him of something.
 
Penna said:
When I was watching the video, I was thinking about how that would have panned out in the UK. If the two police officers hadn't been able to detain him after he got hold of the taser, he'd have run away. At that point, the police would have alerted their control centre, other cars would have been mobilised and there would have been a search. A drunk man on foot isn't going to get far - the main concern would have been the fact that he had a taser, but I doubt he'd have been aiming it at members of the public.

He'd have eventually been arrested and it would probably all have been a fairly small incident. Armed police are the difference.
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Agree with this.

There is a cultural problem with the police that is more prevalent in societies that have enforced social classes where the police have no respect for people perceived as being below them.

In the US this leads to cops devaluing the lives of poor people and because people are armed having a fig leaf of justification in shooting first for self preservation where someone steps out of line. Even when unarmed the victim could be perceived as a threat, and if they aren't then the argument shifts to 'they should have listened to the officer' or if they were, then they were part of the underclass so they probably deserved it.
 
Penna said:
When I was watching the video, I was thinking about how that would have panned out in the UK. If the two police officers hadn't been able to detain him after he got hold of the taser, he'd have run away. At that point, the police would have alerted their control centre, other cars would have been mobilised and there would have been a search. A drunk man on foot isn't going to get far - the main concern would have been the fact that he had a taser, but I doubt he'd have been aiming it at members of the public.

He'd have eventually been arrested and it would probably all have been a fairly small incident. Armed police are the difference.
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It's not exactly rocket science is it? They just seem too quick to go for their guns over there.
 
roseguy64 said:
This is part of the problem like in that tweet I shared before. A guy who pepper sprayed a teenager on a stoop was at his 9th police department. Chauvin had been reported multiple times.

There's far too much of a culture of protecting the faulty regardless. I get why as a team they'd want to promote togetherness, but far too often bad cops are protected by their departments and unions. It's way too hard to get rid of the bad ones and the good ones are complicit for fear of being called out for breaking the line.

That's one of the reasons why if I was American I'd support abolishing departments, reworking their budgets to less militarization (special units alone being so well decked out) and rehiring the good cops with new recruits to get a new culture. Also, make it easier to get rid of bad cops while still having unions to protect the cops for most things.
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It's good that this process is already starting with some of the cops resigning in some states. If they have that attitude towards the criticism which is fully justified, they're not the right kind of people the US need in their forces right now. I seriously hope that they're resigning from the force altogether though and not just to some other district. Hopefully they can get the national disciplinary register up and running as soon as possible.

I also think that as a starting point, EVERY police officer's file should be pulled and assessed against a benchmark. For example under 5 complaints/disciplinaries would invoke a period of monitoring/supervision, between 5 and 10 would require mandatory re-training. Anything over 10, fecking get rid.
 
Struggling to think of another job where you could be reported 12 times for misconduct without being sacked. Crazy.
 
Conor said:
Struggling to think of another job where you could be reported 12 times for misconduct without being sacked. Crazy.
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It wouldnt happen.

They should have a similar rule to criminals, 3 strikes and your out.

Must he proven strikes by an independent public enquiry board or something.

Obviously one major incident would be enough for a sacking.
 
Grinner said:
This is how I understood it too. The prosecution have to apply to the judge for such information to be considered and often the judge will only allow past offences which speak to the credibility of the defendant. Now in the court of public opinion it seems everything is fair game but it is interesting to note the hypocrisy on display. Not being familiar with internal police disciplinary processes makes it difficult to know what this guy has done in the past, but the evidence in this current crime seems to be enough to convict him of something.
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There is zero hypocrisy.
 
arnie_ni said:
It wouldnt happen.

They should have a similar rule to criminals, 3 strikes and your out.

Must he proven strikes by an independent public enquiry board or something.

Obviously one major incident would be enough for a sacking.
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How do you get past all the lies and falsification of police reporting though? It's become apparent over the last few weeks that what they include in their reports are pretty inaccurate at best and downright lies at worst. And when police coroners are even in on it as well, it makes it really difficult to trust the system.
 
AaronRedDevil said:
Completely nothing. Cop just breathalysed her and came up negative, then the cop wouldn’t admit he was wrong. Proceeds to act like an asshole.
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Yes. I'm just asking because I'm not from the US and can't see her car.
 
AaronRedDevil said:
Completely nothing. Cop just breathalysed her and came up negative, then the cop wouldn’t admit he was wrong. Proceeds to act like an asshole.
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But she's on a beach or something? Like, why would you breathalyse someone on a beach?
 
Maagge said:
But she's on a beach or something? Like, why would you breathalyse someone on a beach?
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Yup it is bizarre. I'm sure there must be another side to the story, but whatever that may be, it certainly does not justify what the police officer did.
 
Mad, is there any police department in the US that allows their officers to punch a suspect whatever the circumstances? Okay, maybe if she was 200 pounds and fighting them but she was just resisting, trying not to allow them to cuff her.
 
oates said:
Mad, is there any police department in the US that allows their officers to punch a suspect whatever the circumstances? Okay, maybe if she was 200 pounds and fighting them but she was just resisting, trying not to allow them to cuff her.
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That happens with sickening regularity. They just seem to go from zero to MMA in an instant.
 
choiboyx012 said:
You’re right, the multiple videos released were all fake. I just imagined Brooks’ aggressive actions in my head. 100% peacefully complied.
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So multiple acts of violence to aggressive actions now is it. You cops are something else
 
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