Conspiracy! Suarez reopens Evra race row with attack on Manchester United

[Phil Duck]

Can I ask why? I mean, why you think he said the truth and Evra lied?

I never said he said the truth or that Evra lied, my point is that the whole issue is a linguistic misunderstanding. No one is right or wrong. The british media and internet fans are probably the real enemies in this whole issue.

Statements like this is why you are being questioned about being a closet scouser or at the very least, a Suarez fan.

I don't think Luis Suarez is a racist person, or at least the kind where he goes out of his way to avoid interacting with black people in his private life. However, i do believe that even good people are susceptible to saying nasty things in the heat of the moment, and that is what I think happened. He said some racist things in a racist context in the heat of the moment, but that does not necessarily make him a bad person. What truly dragged his name through the mud was because of his own handling of the situation, fuelled by blind support from his club and manager. If he had just accepted his mistake and apologized for causing offence, I don't think the media nor the fans would have continued to crucify him. IMO the denial was much, much worse and more damaging to his reputation than the incident itself. It actually convinced people that he really was racist because he was defending and denying his racist actions.

As for the handshake, that is a pathetically hilarious analysis from his book. It gave me the impression that he felt he was 100% right, and that Evra should have made the effort to shake his hand when it should clearly have been the other way around. If Evra pulled his hand away then the headlines would have been reversed, but obviously that was never going to happen since Suarez still felt he was completely right and he probably still had a grudge with Evra, and perhaps his pride would not allow him to make that extra effort to extend his hand 2 inches to shake Pat's hand. He only has himself to blame, everything else are excuses.

Because only a Liverpool or a Suarez fan would be rational and calm about it? I don't get it, we basically have the same opinion yet I'm a Liverpool fan?

 

[Vanrouge]

As a person who speaks spanish and is close to the latinamerican culture I can confidently say Suarez is right, in that context "negro" is not a racist slur, he was certanly not being friendly with Evra, but the word was not intented to be an insult, all was a huge cultural misunderstanding. Truth is, he should have known better and recognize the cultura differencies between Uruguay and England.

Now, to think Suarez, because of this incident, is actually a racist person is just ridiculous, naive, and says a lot about the hysterical vibe in which the english press and the english football fans are getting into, always trying to impose this surreal moral standar into others. We are very confused as a society and we don't know how racism functions in real life.

This whole episode is embarassing for both clubs and brought out the worst of both Manchester United and Liverpool fans.

This reminds me of that US media thing where cable news outlets show a "balanced" approach despite the fact everyone knows the Republicans acted like feckwads. I think it's called false equivalency, but either way it's an incredibly distorted and even cowardly way of viewing an incident in which one party acted appallingly and the other maintained its dignity throughout.

 

[Phil Duck]

So were we blinkered as a country when he was voted in England as player of the year. Surely, we as a country, would have looked at his poor unsporting behavior and ignored him as a good footballer. Then there would be evidence of a campaign against Suarez in England. There is no campaign and has not been a campaign against him. He is treated the same as anyone else in England that acts like him..

Nope, John Terry did the same offense and it was supported by a large part of the british media.

 

[Mrs Smoker]

There is hardly room for misunderstanding with lines such as "(I kicked you) because you're black." or "I don't speak to blacks."

 

[Phil Duck]

This reminds me of that US media thing where cable news outlets show a "balanced" approach despite the fact everyone knows the Republicans acted like feckwads. I think it's called false equivalency, but either way it's an incredibly distorted and even cowardly way of viewing an incident in which one party acted appallingly and the other maintained its dignity throughout.

An example that says truly nothing. I'm not trying to be "balanced", I'm trying to say the british media and the posture of football fans is what it is truly apalling about the issue.

 

[SalfordRed1960]

Nope, John Terry did the same offense and it was supported by a large part of the british media.

No it wasn't. They even targeted his family, saying racist ...etc. It is a myth that what Terry said was acceptable to the British media or people. Even United fans were putting snide flags up against Chelsea about supporting Kick out Racism since Sunday.

As I said, the more you comment, the more you dig yourself into a hole, because you want to make out there is an agenda. Suarez got off lightly and Liverpool would have been in the right to cancel his contract due to his behavior overall.

There is no agenda against Suarez, but the country has a genuine disgust at his unsporting behavior.

 

[Moriarty]

No it wasn't. They even targeted his family, saying racist ...etc. It is a myth that what Terry said was acceptable to the British media or people. Even United fans were putting snide flags up against Chelsea about supporting Kick out Racism since Sunday.

As I said, the more you comment, the more you dig yourself into a hole, because you want to make out there is an agenda. Suarez got off lightly and Liverpool would have been in the right to cancel his contract due to his behavior overall.

There is no agenda against Suarez, but the country has a genuine disgust at his unsporting behavior.

I'm just waiting for the first "incident" to occur in Spain. It's inevitable. I wonder how the Spanish press will react if he were to sink his choppers into an opponent or racially abuse a black player.

 

[Vanrouge]

An example that says truly nothing. I'm not trying to be "balanced", I'm trying to say the british media and the posture of football fans us what it is truly apalling about the issue.

No, you are being an apologist for an odious character who used racist language to hurt another human being. It kind of doesn't reflect well on you. As someone else pointed out a racist isn't someone who dresses in white hoods. If you use racially loaded language to hurt someone and gain an advantage, you have revealed something about yourself that, to be honest, is pretty much indistinguishable from racism itself. You are bending over backwards to try to "seem" fair, which makes me wonder which team you really supported in this, since your conviction that United were somehow equally at fault is not only categorically wrong but also pretty suspicious.

 

[Phil Duck]

No it wasn't. They even targeted his family, saying racist ...etc. It is a myth that what Terry said was acceptable to the British media or people. Even United fans were putting snide flags up against Chelsea about supporting Kick out Racism since Sunday.

As I said, the more you comment, the more you dig yourself into a hole, because you want to make out there is an agenda. Suarez got off lightly and Liverpool would have been in the right to cancel his contract due to his behavior overall.

There is no agenda against Suarez, but the country has a genuine disgust at his unsporting behavior.

The coverage of the Terry case wasn't even close to the escandal that generated the Suarez incident.

 

[buckooo1978]

You are drawing a huge conclusion out of just a few facts. Suarez was wrong for the same reasons you expose, he should have known better but puting him as a malicious racist person because of that particular reaction is just too far and that's what Manchester United fans have done during the whole episode.

I think the tribal support of Liverpool as you call it is completely ridiculous and childish, just as ridiculous and childish as seeing Manchester United fans in blogs or twitter accounts trying to convince people that Suarez is the worst human being ever and a racist because of this episode.

Are you on a wum or what?

Are you completely unfamiliar with the report? You know that Suarez admitted to REPEATEDLY call Evra a term which is racist in most of the World? This despite Evra being obviously upset and reporting it to the referee - what do you think his motivation was? You say I'm drawing conclusions when you claim he was just misunderstood

Even in your warped view if Suarez was so ridiculously stupid and ignorant to think that that was a funny thing to say when he realized he'd offended Evra why did he carry on? To prompt Evra reacting and possibly getting sent off

And you are completely sensationalist with your generalisation of United fans - no one could defend Suarez' character being called into question with his track record - you are well off the mark with your ridiculous views on this - Suarez and Liverpool were disgraceful in trying to paint the Uruguayan as a victim in this - stop being foolish

 

[SalfordRed1960]

The coverage of the Terry case wasn't even close to the escandal that generated the Suarez incident.

Because Chelsea as a club did not act like total twats. They let the justice system work the way we expect it to work. It was only Terry that argued his innocence.

Liverpool wouldn't let the issue drop, that is why you putting United as club on the same level as Liverpool as total unreasonable.

 

[Wowi]

I never said he said the truth or that Evra lied, my point is that the whole issue is a linguistic misunderstanding. No one is right or wrong. The british media and internet fans are probably the real enemies in this whole issue.

An example that says truly nothing. I'm not trying to be "balanced", I'm trying to say the british media and the posture of football fans us what it is truly apalling about the issue.

Just stop. You keep digging and you're only making it worse for yourself. Suarez is a complete idiot at best, and even then the English media voted him player of the year. He hasn't been given a rough ride, considering what he's done. There's been a lot of journalists completely ignoring the facts (such as the report) who's made pro-Suarez articles. At the end of the day; if you actually bother reading the report (or even just highlights from it) and if you bother looking at how many times Suarez has changed his story, surely you can admit that he's the bigger culprit in this case. Never mind the fact that it was him that started all of this, he's also the one that has kept bringing it up at every given opportunity. Does Evra still talk about it? No. Does anyone at United still talk about it? No. It's only Suarez, who's STILL trying to play the victim here - and for whatever reason, you're still willing to give him the "benefit of doubt".

 

[Mrs Smoker]

You know that Suarez admitted to REPEATEDLY call Evra a term which is racist in most of the World?

Actually, Suarez admitted on saying the word just once, in a friendly manner.

 

[Phil Duck]

No, you are being an apologist for an odious character who used racist language to hurt another human being. It kind of doesn't reflect well on you. As someone else pointed out a racist isn't someone who dresses in white hoods. If you use racially loaded language to hurt someone and gain an advantage, you have revealed something about yourself that, to be honest, is pretty much indistinguishable from racism itself. You are bending over backwards to try to "seem" fair, which makes me wonder which team you really supported in this, since your conviction that United were somehow equally at fault is not only categorically wrong but also pretty suspicious.

No, you are being small minded, seeing this as a "tribal" issue of "Manchester Utd vs Liverpool", taking the childish position that my opinion has something to do with a football team I support and the only way to give Suarez the benefit of doubt is being a Liverpool fan, you are also drawing conclusions about my personality out of a simple discussion on the internet. I don't conclude Suarez is a racist out of this issue because I'm not an hypocrite, I don't like people drawing conclusions about me for just a particular issue so I don't do that to others. I also don't have a surreal moral standar where other's can't fail because that instantly turn them into monsters.

 

[Natener]

So if I don't take an irrational position in order to attack Suarez it means I'm a Liverpool supporter, that totally makes sense.

The official report would not change my mind. I give Suarez the benefit of doubt, I know he did wrong and he paid for it, I'm sure the whole incident was a cultural misunderstanding in the context of a heated football match, where hatred words are exchanged all the time.

You would rather ignore the details of the investigations to take the word of a man who has basically flip-flopped his position a few times from the incident til today? That leans much more towards being irrational actually.

Also, you would make a terrible judge by my books. I could just imagine you telling Suarez, "Luis, you did the crime so you just got to serve the time. But hey, I know deep down, you're alright." And you're saying that to someone with prior biting incident, who then goes on to have 2 more biting incidents (I won't even bother going into his other misconducts). I would agree as with most others that Suarez genuinely has no personal agenda against blacks. But to give benefit of doubt to someone of questionable character here to pass his mistakes off as a simple cultural misunderstanding? Seems more of naivety to me.

 

[Phil Duck]

Just stop. You keep digging and you're only making it worse for yourself.

It's ok, It's irrelevant to me if I look bad in the eyes of some people on Redcafe, not the end of the world. I know my view is polemic because no one is able to see this issue without bringing "Liverpool v United" into the question.

 

[Raoul]

He has a new hobby, grabbbing oponnent players' balls.

Preemptive self-defense.

 

[Mali_Zeus]

Preemptive self-defense.

Or sign of affection in Uruguay?

 

[Wowi]

It's ok, It's irrelevant to me if I look bad in the eyes of some people on Redcafe, not the end of the world. I know my view is polemic because no one is able to see this issue without bringing "Liverpool v United" into the question.

Right, none of us (except you, obviously. You're the "rational" person, as you say) are able to look beyond the fact that he was a Liverpool player.

Also, why didn't you comment on the rest of it? Like you haven't bothered to comment on other posts asking you questions you didn't have an answer for. I don't know what your goal is why this blind defence of Suarez, but it's getting boring. You keep repeating the same phrases and completely ignore everything that doesn't fit your agenda.

 

[Sad Chris]

The official report would not change my mind.

Choosing the religious approach now? Why would a smart guy like you choose to close your eyes to evidence? I was open to consider some of your arguments, but this statement just debunks you.

 

[Phil Duck]

You would rather ignore the details of the investigations to take the word of a man who has basically flip-flopped his position a few times from the incident til today? That leans much more towards being irrational actually.

Also, you would make a terrible judge by my books. I could just imagine you telling Suarez, "Luis, you did the crime so you just got to serve the time. But hey, I know deep down, you're alright." And you're saying that to someone with prior biting incident, who then goes on to have 2 more biting incidents (I won't even bother going into his other misconducts). I would agree as with most others that Suarez genuinely has no personal agenda against blacks. But to give benefit of doubt to someone of questionable character here to pass his mistakes off as a simple cultural misunderstanding? Seems more of naivety to me.

An undisciplined football player is hardly a questionable character, he's guilty of bad behaviour on a football pitch which is hardly important. Him bitting someone and getting a red card doesn't tell me he's a racist and a malicious person in any way. Roy Keane and Paul Scholes kicked people all the time and I don't think they are questionable characters.

When I watch him on interviews or I read he's views on the incident I believe him, he was guilty of using bad words but completely misjudged by a sector of the british media and a huge ammount of people on the internet, who quickly want to jump on what they consider is out of the moral system.

As I also understand the cultural background and the use of language that Suarez has and having all this in mind, giving the player the benefit of doubt or at least acknowledging his position as understandable is an obvious point of view for me.

Choosing the religious approach now? Why would a smart guy like you choose to close your eyes to evidence? I was open to consider some of your arguments, but this statement just debunks you.

I don't trust the FA at all.

Right, none of us (except you, obviously. You're the "rational" person, as you say) are able to look beyond the fact that he was a Liverpool player.

Also, why didn't you comment on the rest of it? Like you haven't bothered to comment on other posts asking you questions you didn't have an answer for. I don't know what your goal is why this blind defence of Suarez, but it's getting boring. You keep repeating the same phrases and completely ignore everything that doesn't fit your agenda.

I don't have the energy of the time to answer every question or quoting every post so I just quote those who I think help me put a better understanding of what my point of view is.

I don't have an argument to win, I'm not interested in that.

 

[Vanrouge]

No, you are being small minded, seeing this as a "tribal" issue of "Manchester Utd vs Liverpool", taking the childish position that my opinion has something to do with a football team I support and the only way to give Suarez the benefit of doubt is being a Liverpool fan, you are also drawing conclusions about my personality out of a simple discussion on the internet. I don't conclude Suarez is a racist out of this issue because I'm not an hypocrite, I don't like people drawing conclusions about me for just a particular issue so I don't do that to others. I also don't have a surreal moral standar where other's can't fail because that instantly turn them into monsters.

Your language is emotive: Small minded? Childish? Hypocrite? Monsters? I think you need to calm down. Where have I drawn conclusions about your personality? As others have tried to point out to you, Suarez has been treated better than he probably deserves by many in the British media, while I think it is more than fair to draw conclusions about his character based not only on the list of transgressions the entire world knows about, but every single one of those Achilles rakes, eye gouges, ball-grabs, and reckless studs-up challenges in which he then feigned injury to escape censure. No idea what the lad is like off the pitch, but it's completely legitimate to say he's an odious little coward while on it.

 

[montpelier]

If it was a simple cultural misunderstanding why didn't Kenny & Liverpool say that from the get-go. Instead they launched personal attacks on Evra and wore silly t-shirts.

 

[Phil Duck]

Your language is emotive: Small minded? Childish? Hypocrite? Monsters? I think you need to calm down. Where have I drawn conclusions about your personality? As others have tried to point out to you, Suarez has been treated better than he probably deserves by many in the British media, while I think it is more than fair to draw conclusions about his character based not only on the list of transgressions the entire world knows about, but every single one of those Achilles rakes, eye gouges, ball-grabs, and reckless studs-up challenges in which he then feigned injury to escape censure. No idea what the lad is like off the pitch, but it's completely legitimate to say he's an odious little coward while on it.

"You are bending over backwards to try to "seem" fair, which makes me wonder which team you really supported in this, since your conviction that United were somehow equally at fault is not only categorically wrong but also pretty suspicious."

 

[Mrs Smoker]

I don't trust the FA at all.

Independent panel that chose to believe Evra.

 

[#07]

There is hardly room for misunderstanding with lines such as "(I kicked you) because you're black." or "I don't speak to blacks."

This.

We need to stop feeding this troll. @Phil Duck is clearly a WUM.

 

[Vanrouge]

It's ok, It's irrelevant to me if I look bad in the eyes of some people on Redcafe, not the end of the world. I know my view is polemic because no one is able to see this issue without bringing "Liverpool v United" into the question.

What you seem to be actively ignoring is he did this to a United player, a player who was deeply loved by the fans. Not only that but then the Liverpool PR machine went into overdrive to blame and slur Patrice himself instead of doing the mature thing and acknowledging what had happened. If most of us wanted to protect Evra, that's pretty understandable, and how you can see that as "childish" I have no idea. There's loyalty (which United fans showed in this case) and there's blind loyalty (t-shirts and blame the victim). This is what I mean by the false equivalency you seem so determined to display, as if it makes you look fair and balanced. I'm simply pointing out it makes you look odd and completely unfair toward Patrice Evra who did nothing wrong.

 

[Wowi]

Him bitting someone and getting a red card doesn't tell me he's a racist and a malicious person in any way.

Him biting someone and claiming that he "fell into his shoulder" says a lot about his character though. But let's ignore that. Let's also ignore that it was the third time he bit someone. Let's also ignore, that he has a history of going into wild challenges and pretend to be injured himself. It's the world against Suarez for no reason at all - I really feel for him.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

This.

We need to stop feeding this troll. @Phil Duck is clearly a WUM.

I don't think he is. I think he initially had a limited knowledge of the facts and won't backpedal now that they've been given to him. Well, at least I hope it's that.

 

[Vanrouge]

"You are bending over backwards to try to "seem" fair, which makes me wonder which team you really supported in this, since your conviction that United were somehow equally at fault is not only categorically wrong but also pretty suspicious."

That wasn't intended as a conclusion about your personality. It means I'm suspicious of your loyalties in this.

 

[Phil Duck]

Him biting someone and claiming that he "fell into his shoulder" says a lot about his character though. But let's ignore that. Let's also ignore that it was the third time he bit someone. Let's also ignore, that he has a history of going into wild challenges and pretend to be injured himself. It's the world against Suarez for no reason at all - I really feel for him.

Well, it says a lot for you, for me is just another football player with a terrible behaviour on the pitch like many others in history. Football is full of dirty players, alcoholics, drug abusers, etc etc etc. As I'm not a perfect person myself try not to judge them or draw conclusions about them out of superficial things.

 

[MDFC Manager]

There is hardly room for misunderstanding with lines such as "(I kicked you) because you're black." or "I don't speak to blacks."

Spot on.

 

[Phil Duck]

That wasn't intended as a conclusion about your personality. It means I'm suspicious of your loyalties in this.

See? What loyalties? So I have to be loyal to the Manchester United side? What does that mean? To see the issue as a "Manchester Utd v Liverpool" is just drawing the discusion to the most basic and irrational level.

 

[Wowi]

Well, it says a lot for you, for me is just another football player with a terrible behaviour on the pitch like many others in history. Football is full of dirty players, alcoholics, drug abusers, etc etc etc. As I'm not a perfect person myself try not to judge them or draw conclusions about them out of superficial things.

I have nothing else to add. Enjoy your fantasy.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Well, it says a lot for you, for me is just another football player with a terrible behaviour on the pitch like many others in history. Football is full of dirty players, alcoholics, drug abusers, etc etc etc. As I'm not a perfect person myself try not to judge them or draw conclusions about them out of superficial things.

Well, good for you. In the mean time, stop being so supportive of a serial rule breaking lying cnut of a man.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Well, it says a lot for you, for me is just another football player with a terrible behaviour on the pitch like many others in history. Football is full of dirty players, alcoholics, drug abusers, etc etc etc. As I'm not a perfect person myself try not to judge them or draw conclusions about them out of superficial things.

At least you are honest. Unlike your hero Suarez.

 

[Vanrouge]

Well, it says a lot for you, for me is just another football player with a terrible behaviour on the pitch like many others in history. Football is full of dirty players, alcoholics, drug abusers, etc etc etc. As I'm not a perfect person myself try not to judge them or draw conclusions about them out of superficial things.

Okay, last attempt here. Does it occur to you to wonder why, of all those questionable and dirty players in the history of the game, it's Suarez who's attracted such universal abhorrence from fans across the board (other than Liverpool and Uruguay fans)? Are you honestly suggesting it's all because he plays for Liverpool? And if that's the case, how do you explain the fact he attracted the same levels of disgust from fans of other teams than United? This idea that we're only being "tribal" here is insulting. I think you are downplaying the impact of racism on a actual human being here (Evra) and we aren't. It's almost as if you don't empathize with how deeply wounding racism is, and I have to question why you would be an apologist for someone who has demonstrably used hurtful racist language against another human being.

 

[Vanrouge]

See? What loyalties? So I have to be loyal to the Manchester United side? What does that mean? To see the issue as a "Manchester Utd v Liverpool" is just drawing the discusion to the most basic and irrational level.

FFS, your loyalties to someone who has been hurt by racism! How many times do people have to point this out?

 

[Phil Duck]

This.

We need to stop feeding this troll. @Phil Duck is clearly a WUM.

You don't have to quote me or be part of the discussion, no one is putting a gun into your head. Just because I don't follow the "Utd v Liv", "loyalty" narrative it doesn't mean I'm a troll.

 

[fishfingers15]

Well, it says a lot for you, for me is just another football player with a terrible behaviour on the pitch like many others in history. Football is full of dirty players, alcoholics, drug abusers, etc etc etc. As I'm not a perfect person myself try not to judge them or draw conclusions about them out of superficial things.

What exactly are you trying to say here? You forgive Suarez because you are a feckwit yourself? This entire episode has nothing to do with what Suarez thought, or what Suarez meant or what Suarez did when he was 3, playing with an entirely black zebra to prove he's not a racist. He played football in Europe for a good while and he said nasty things to Evra in the heat of the moment. What he said was objectionable to Evra, the victim in the whole incident. That's all there is to it. Suarez was in a heated conversation with Evra and called him a negro, Evra objected to it and felt abused. This incident happened in England, where it's not accepted. Suarez is far from an angel and he has used every trick in the book to get advantage.

Overwhelming logic and evidence suggest that Suarez tried to rile up Evra (not once, but at least 3 or 4 separate times with the word negro, yet you are willing to give a clean chit to Suarez on what basis exactly? ) Where does Evra feature in this entire episode? After all, he's the victim here, isn't he?

Look at what Suarez did after the incident

1) Protested his innocence
2) Tried to say he said Negrito, a more friendly term
3) Made his case to FA saying there is no proof
4) Would make no apology as he had no case for apology
5) Made a big mess out of the handshake episode
6) Blamed the english media, press, David Cameron, English racist culture, colonial rule and his mule

At the end of the day, you don't judge a person because you are not perfect. That's pretty awesome for you I guess.