Again, you have decided this is a "United vs Liverpool loyalty narrative," while being an apologist for and giving the benefit of the doubt to one individual while completely ignoring the impact this might have had on another individual who did absolutely nothing wrong, was then portrayed as a liar, and was even snubbed in a subsequent handshake. Why are you so adamant to make excuses for Suarez and make wild accusations of childishness, tribalism, etc., when it's more likely that most people were pretty much disgusted by someone who not only thinks it's okay to use racially charged language to gain an advantage but to lie about it afterward and have those lies legitimized by a football institution like Liverpool FC.
Conspiracy! Suarez reopens Evra race row with attack on Manchester United
- Thread starter TOM_H
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Again, you have decided this is a "United vs Liverpool loyalty narrative," while being an apologist for and giving the benefit of the doubt to one individual while completely ignoring the impact this might have had on another individual who did absolutely nothing wrong, was then portrayed as a liar, and was even snubbed in a subsequent handshake. Why are you so adamant to make excuses for Suarez and make wild accusations of childishness, tribalism, etc., when it's more likely that most people were pretty much disgusted by someone who not only thinks it's okay to use racially charged language to gain an advantage but to lie about it afterward and have those lies legitimized by a football institution like Liverpool FC.
Spot on....
You are trying to take the discusion to a different area, you are trying to make it seem like if I support Suarez then I support racist behaviour, no. I relate to Suarez cultural and social upbringing so I know his behaviour doesn't respond to racist intentions, yes I admit he made a mistake like I have said in the entire threat.
I don't see the issue as a "Utd v Liverpool" or "racist vs no racist" thing, for me is a cultural misunderstanding in which a person was found guilty and paid for his behaviour that was considered racist by a judge, the whole issue could have been avoided if the clubs, specially Liverpool would have tried a better approach about it. I sympathise with Suarez because I see the behaviour of both the british media and some football fans on the internet as unfair and exaggerated.
Bitting someone doesn't tell anyone he's racist for sure, but not malicious? These are not five year old kids at the playground. There are many incidents where players lose their cool and lash out at someone, but for an adult to bite out at another person is simply incomprehensible. It is very different from kicking out at players although there are also many who would question Roy Keane's character, Arsene Wenger has questioned Paul Scholes' character before too.
Bottomline, Suarez has shown from before and after the Evra incident that he is capable of cheating (beyond even diving/playacting) to win. What I differ in view with you is that I take benefit of doubt as one of several considerations. And since he has changed his own defense a few times, it seems clear that there is more to the case than the eventual cultural misunderstanding he is arguing for. You seem adamant on using it as the sole factor for your position though, and that leaves a lot of "why?"s unanswered as others and me are pointing out to you now.
Good grief, even in his latest interview he admits to being a diver and a biter (and states that he doesn't understand why people are so offended by biting); why is it so hard for some to read those things & not conclude that maybe Suarez lied about his racist comments? And some have the audacity to accuse United fans of being overly biased...sheesh.
Again, you are ignoring what Patrice Evra accused him of saying. @Mrs Smoker cited this for you from the report but you said you weren't willing to read or accept the evidence.
Basically you have simply decided, without reviewing the evidence, that Suarez told the truth and Evra lied. Their accounts of what were said are totally different, and there is no way to reconcile those differences.
There can be no cultural misunderstanding about the difference between porque and por qué. They are different words. Suarez tried to mix them up to get himself off the hook, just as he lied repeatedly to get himself off the hook throughout the hearing as the report showed.
That's a worthless point though, as we all know exactly what our media is like & we all know how reactionary many 'internet fans' are; these people aren't truly representative of most football fans, and their views don't equate to a persecution of Luis Suarez.
Evra accused him of saying exactly what @Mrs Smoker quoted to you earlier. You deny Suarez said those things. Therefore you must think Suarez told the truth and Evra lied.
If you are unwilling to read the report, which you have said already, its useless to continue discussing this with you. The report sets out, extremely thoroughly, why the inquiry found Suarez guilty. They even went to the trouble of consulting experts in Rioplantanese Spanish as part of their deliberations. Yet you have decided (as if you are the only one on this board who speaks Spanish, knows a Latino, or is Spanish or Latino) that they were biased, wrong and set out to punish Suarez from the start...
...Dios Mio...
I'm familiar with an article of the guardian that has extracts from the report, I don't care about reading the report entierely. I aknowledge that Suarez used a lenguage that in the context of the country in which the match was played could have been seen as racist, that's why he as punished for the incident, he made a mistake and paid for it.
At the same time I share a similar background and cultural understanding with Luis Suarez, that's why I don't judge him as racist and I don't draw conclusions about his personality out of his reaction in a heated moment in a football match. Contradictions in Suarez words are understandable since his club probably insisted in proving his innocence no matter what, I also despise the behaviour of Liverpool FC in the issue.
Having in mind that the british press and some United fans don't acknowledge the view of Luis Suarez into the issue and just draw conclusions about him and try to impose surreal moral values into anyone who makes a mistake I tend to go against them and their arguments of Suarez being a racist and a terrible human being.
I have made the same point in almost all my posts.
What do you acknowledge at the end? That he just said "Por que, negro?"?
Who knows? The report means nothing to me, it is impossible to known how attached to reality it is, the judge concluded that Suarez was guilty and that's all that matters, he paid the prize for his mistake.
All I know is that the word negro doesn't have the same meaning as "nigger" and don't necessarily brings a racist slur on it. In fact, Luis Suarez, in Uruguay is probably called "negro" by his friends, believe it or not.
The fact that the word negro can be used freely in countries like Uruguay and Argentina does have a deep racist connotation that is rooted in the culture for different reasons, as I said before South America is as racist as the UK, the thing is, I don't think is fair to attack Suarez and consider him a racist because of that, the issue is not as black or white as people think, reality and different culture have a lot of shades and can't be explained as "this is right" or 'this is wrong".
Stop having stances on issues where you randomly avoid reading conclusions/reports. Better still, when you are uninformed, then stop arguing about it in a public forum and then accuse others for having a 'tribal mentality'.
If I were you, I'll take a long look at the mirror because you've completely overlooked what it means to Evra, who's the victim here. Again and again, you're trying to paint Suarez as the victim here. You're either incredibly stupid/very naive/WUM. I hope it's the latter.
Both Suarez and Evra are victims on different levels as I see it. This was a huge cultural misunderstanding.
#justiceforluis trended a lot.
The problem is you are not actually seeing a lot of it. This controversy started with Suarez using the word 'Negro' against Evra many times and still continuing to this day with Suarez claiming he has done nothing wrong and he has been punished undeservedly. You on the other hand, grasp on to 'negro is not an insult in South America donchaknow' like somehow it makes Suarez a victim in this needless saga.
Everyone is trying to say that to you, while you sit on some ivory tower with a blindfold on.
I understand the cultural differences, however you have an obligation to understand the environment in which you are working. If you work in a foreign country you have to understand that what's acceptable, and legal is different. To claim cultural misunderstanding is just p**s poor, it's a flimsy defence to say the least.
It's also just a lie. If I hit someone and when asked why I said 'porque eres mestizo', anyone listening would conclude I was being racially offensive.
There is no part of Spain or Latin America where 'because you are X' is a culturally accepted reason for hitting someone. That's just a lie.
People don't condemn Suarez for his culture, he was player of the season in this country last year! They condemn him because he was wrong.
I find it incomprehensible how someone can defend Suarez here.
Why are you constantly ignoring certain posts?
It looks very much like you're on the WUM here.
Ok, just to wade into this myself, let's assume that it was all just a cultural misunderstanding or whatever. Why not just say - 'I didn't mean to offend him, I humbly apologize and will never use that term again'. Sure, you may still be punished, but at least you are showing remorse. Whether you meant it or not, you offended someone by using a term that they considered to be racist and the reasonable response is not to try and squirm your way out of it and make excuses. It is to apologize and learn from it. That is, among other reasons, why I despise Luis Suarez as a person and, regardless of how many times I hear that 'he's a family man' or that 'he does charity work' or whatever, I will consider him to be a horrible human being.
He's an expert at ducking certain posts, Phil Duck.
Which posts?
But I'm not trying to defend Suarez, I'm just trying to say that I understand the situation diferently, not a United v Liverpool issue, not a racist v not racist, Suarez v Evra or right or wrong.
The situation has a lot more shades and factors that have to be in consideration, when you have everything on account you can't but understand the issue as a cultural and linguistic clash, badly handled by Liverpool and Suarez and blown out of proportion by the English press and some sector of Manchester United fans.
How did the media and Manchester United fans blew up out of proportion this situation?
By reading the report?
By reading the report?
By ignoring all factors involved in Suarez point of view and systematically build into the perception that he's a racist and a terrible human being.
I'm trying to be as objective as I can be.
Evra felt wronged by Suarez, so he made a complaint. Suarez (and Liverpool FC) had multiple chances to end the issue by offering an apology/clarification to Evra (and to Manchester United fc) (which should have been given and which no person who is not guilty of racism/using racist language to incite an opponent would think twice to give) and put the matter to rest.
In the meantime, Liverpool FC (and Suarez) kept on giving soundbites to the media, went on a PR nightmare of t shirts, demonstrations, pleas to the FA about how Suarez is NOT guilty, smearing Evra with false accusations and generally abusing him that he was making up claims to deprive the of Suarez, while Manchester United as a club, kept mum. Fergie went on record to clarify that they didn't let Evra down, and he wanted to come out and support the guy but wanted to respect FA's directives. So pardon me for saying a big feck off to you.
I've known plenty of United fans giving back to Liverpool fans when they accused him of being a coward and I'll never forgive Kristian Walsh (the fecker posts at RAWK) for disingenuously claiming that Evra had previous while making up these sorts of claims and then proceeded to call it a social exercise of some sort. You've conveniently left out Liverpool fans (lol, not even some sector, seemingly very normal Liverpool fc fans wanted Evra's legs to be broken) and accuse United fans that it was blown out of proportion?
I'll again say it, you are either a blatant WUM or very naive.
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He's not a racist, he just chose to wind up a black player using a reference to his skin colour, which linguistic experts confirmed would be racially offensive if used in an unfriendly exchange (and Suarez has now admitted the exchange was unfriendly, which throws away the only defence he tried to use at the time).
That's all there is to it. No one is saying Suarez is a card-carrying member of the KKK. He simply chose to use racially aggravating language in this argument.
The simple fact is, if he truly was innocent, the situation would have been handled with a straight-forward explanation and apology. The overly defensive reaction and story-shifting just reeked of extreme guilt.
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Every new defence Luis uses seems to contradict something he has previously tried to use as his defence. He was on a wind-up and made a mistake. I don't think it was ever fantastically serious in itself. But Liverpool knew they had a problem (with the FA sure to be on the warpath) which they attempted to solve by booting the ball repeatedly into their own net. Suarez now appears to have gotten carried away with this bullshit or is being 'badly advised' about putting out a book which only LFC loons will ever believe the contents of.
Saurez is a cnut and the sooner that cretin steps away from football the better it is.
Like I said, there's a million things you can say without meaning it so why does someone point of reference has to be someone's colour? Is it yours.....and that's why he's a racist.
Suarez is a scumbag, you can't factor culture or background into that, he's just a scumbag.
The man had a chance to explain everything to evra and apologize, but he lied and denied it on the hope that he could get away with it, that painted evra as a lair at the time, then there was the handshake, which now that he's left liverpool is refusing to take responsibility for.
Everything that Suarez does is just like that world cup biting incident, it's never his fault, the shoulder hit his teeth, that sums up the man, he lies and dodges responsibility until he's forced to do so.
There's no injustice when it come to suarez, the only reason he keeps getting into trouble is his behavior. Football is his job, during his job he's a complete scumbag, he cheats, he bites and he abuses, there is nothing suarez wouldn't do to get what he wants, it doesn't matter that off the pitch he's a loving father and a great friend, it really doesn't matter, criminals could be great family men and friends.
Are Mr Duck's relatives getting the section order ready?
I would think several fans (bar those from liverpool, barcelona and uruguay) believe Suarez is guilty of racism. Is he a full blown racist? Probably not. But in society today, you're considered a racist once you utter racists words towards.
Suarez is pissed off because he feels he was found guilty "without evidence". In other words he would be happy to be proven a racist if there was "evidence".
Suarez is pissed off because he feels he was found guilty "without evidence". In other words he would be happy to be proven a racist if there was "evidence".
Suarez is just a nasty snake. Such a shame because he is a truly gifted and outstanding player. Personally if he were a United player I would be absolutely disgusted with him for being banned for so long and causing so much controversy and in such nasty and spiteful ways, only to be really slimy when caught out. It's Liverpool who suffered as he cost them the league last year, far more than Gerrards slip (although please allow us United fans to forget that when applicable for amusement purposes) Yet by many he seems to be seen as the victim or misunderstood. Crazy.
fecking hell, you just don't get it, do you? Seemingly you don't want to get it. Suarez "made a mistake" and got punished for it - surely you can have no objections to that. Had Suarez admitted that he was wrong (seeing as what he did wasn't acceptable where it happened), that would have been the end of that case. Instead Suarez (and Liverpool) went on the offensive and portrayed him as a victim and claimed it was all made up. They came up with different excuses for it (such as claiming that Suarez said "negrito"). Ultimately, the independent board found Suarez guilty. Fine, case closed - we'll forget all about it in time.
Oh, except we won't - because Suarez keeps bringing it up all the fecking time. Still acting innocent, and still changing his story as he sees fit. He's gone from claiming he used "negrito" in a friendly manner to accepting that it was actually the word "negro" and it wasn't intended to be friendly. After failing to shake Evra's hand, he issued a statement saying he was wrong not to do it, but now he claims that it was Evra that pulled his hand away and then trapped Suarez. How can you fight Suarez' case, when you don't even know what you're fighting for?
Words fail me really.I hope we can morally forgive ourselves for being so abusive and resentful towards a guy who has a long history (and certain future) of being an absolutely vile person and subsequently be a liar and unrepentant about his behavior.
What on earth is going on in here?
Surely everyone is being wummed?
Surely everyone is being wummed?
can't believe anyone sane is believing his "calls of affection back in my hometown" shits
I would probably give him the benefit of doubt taking this incident in isolation, but not after his multiple bites and still having the audacity to come out with a very childish retort of Chiellini sinking into his teeth.
Seriously, I can't believe how any adult can entertain that notion.
I would probably give him the benefit of doubt taking this incident in isolation, but not after his multiple bites and still having the audacity to come out with a very childish retort of Chiellini sinking into his teeth.
Seriously, I can't believe how any adult can entertain that notion.