Your assumption is probably correct I reckon.
That particular Chinese balloon was pretty fecking big though, and couldn't be ignored or "tolerated".
Don't know about the other unidentified objects or whether some change of policy happened.
Cold War against China?
- Thread starter VorZakone
- Start date
That particular Chinese balloon was pretty fecking big though, and couldn't be ignored or "tolerated".
Don't know about the other unidentified objects or whether some change of policy happened.
As they say in a post below yours, is no secret. And surely you are not as naive to believe that US dont spy (probably the most as is the most capable nation) having a plane like U2.
https://www.nytimes.com/1964/11/17/archives/pilotless-us-plane-downed-china-says.html
The part in the article that says: "These reconnaissance flights are so extensive that the United States was able to forecast China's recent nuclear explosion having spotted the site from the air. Observers said that if pilotless planes were being used for flights over China, one might have produced the pictures of the nuclear test site...."
Really?
Solid read.
Really?
Why don't you try to look for it yourself and post it here if you think challenging the say that "USA planes intrudes China's airspace for fun for years" is absurd. Perhaps you can ask yourself if you have formed some sort of prejudicial worldviews (similar to the thinking that Iraq is now a warzone in ruins or most Africans still live in rondavels) due to the media (be it MSM and social media) you have been exposed to for years?
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- 17 Nov 1964
- "China (then still in Maoist era in the dawn of Cultural Revolution) says.."
- "its no secret" is not a source. "you will be naive if you think these cunning bastards don't do certain things" is not a source or actual logic either. The fact that USA does millions of things to spy and gather information, many of which are illegitimate or illegal, does not mean that it is sending its spy planes over (undisputed) china territory for fun over the years. It is a very simple logic.
You may not be aware of the chaos and controversies when the USA intelligence plane crashed with a Chinese jet at the yellow dot below
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident#/media/File:Hainanincidentmap.png
Imagine the embarrassment or even the international chaos created if a USA intelligence plane is shut down in Yunnan or Hunan and the U2 and its crews are held hostage in China? Does USA need to take that risk? satellite is much inferior to spy plane but it still works some way
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What is the problem with 1964? Or that year was valid and 2023 is not to spy? Thiat was a example. They didnt stop en 1964.
My comment was to another comment to. "Oh, china is sending us spy baloons, US should reciprocate". Like if the US doesnt spy on china. Planes satellite or balloons is irrelevant. If you want to split hairs and asking me for a picture of a U2 flight over china in 2023 giving the finger to XI, you are missing the point completely
Yeah its an odd claim considering there were already all the issues a decade ago. We already know the CIA successfully infiltrated the CCP and had hacked Huawei. Never mind its closest allies. The USA-China cold war in that sense has been going on for decades.
The US doesn't spend what it does for no benefit and its hardly shy about it's capabilities.
It's very naive to assume any significant power isn't up the same collections. If you're stupid enough to get caught doing it they'll be a public presentation of shock but I doubt either side care beyond PR and concerns about prevention.
My first thought on those were that they were likely one of many climate change studies or experiments.
There was a US startup firm that came in for criticism in December for using baloons as a geoengineering pilot, releasing sulfur particles. They won't be the only one and they're unlikely to admit ownership. I'd bet good money some of it is them.
It's far more likely that's happening by startups across the globe than it is using baloons for surveillance.
That's interesting. Maybe by a government too.
Perhaps combine China and the year 1964 you will come up with some insights? PRC in 1964 was a literal rogue state much worse than today's North Korea that fanatically worshipped a mass killer, had zero interest in truth and low technological ability, the state failed to intercept or detect Lin Biao's plane in 1971, and you tell me it could detect US spy plane in 1964? you are the real naive one if you believe in what PRC said in 1964.
No one in this thread is challenging your position that USA is engaging in spying on China and other countries. you just made a claim without basis and I asked you to provide a source for it and you just call me hair splitting to save your face. It is like you saying that Messi is the GOAT and he scored tons against Man Utd, Real Madrid, Al-hilal, Chelsea and Co, and I ask you "but where is the goal against Al-hilal?" you call me hair splitting for neglecting the "big picture" that Messi is the greatest player of all time - but no one is neglecting your big picture when asking you to provide source for your claim
And on the 60-80, united states were conducting coups in southamerica, entering cocaine with the help of the drug cartels in the US and had been desastibilizing the world for the last 70 years in many countries in all continents and continues to do so.
As you think that the US had the right to spy in china just because, wouldnt be the other countries in good reason wanted to spy the US to see what they are planning on then
As US sees as a menace other countries, other countries views US as a menace. US is not the good guy. None of the superpowers are. They have they own style. And yes, i want US to succeed bc is the sphere that i live in, but lets not forget that US is the world's bully
If i would be china, the current US thread, i would like to get as much information from the US to see how they plan to desistibilize them, as US wanted in the 60 (and the 70s-80s 90s 00s 10s 20s) to the so called rogue states
And then you say:"No one in this thread is challenging your position that USA is engaging in spying on China and other countries.."
So when you aak me proofs, is not challanging it? What were you asking? Actual proof of spying? That they post and recognize that?
Eisenhower recognize that for the USSR after they shot down a U2 that they were spying for a long time (not that the USSR radars didnt tell them aleady). What else do you want a detailed flight mission plan for every country?
China complained in 2020 of US spy planes also. But of course you would not believe it. The question here is that you need to be right. But hey:" no one is challanging you on US spying china" yeah right. Not a challanga at all
Anyway. Ill stop here. Is beyond ridiculous. Is logic applied. You can keep your stubborness to be right on " not having proof" in spy matters proven in other years and/other countries
They're unwilling to negotiate until the number of blinded Filipinos hits double figures.
Also, why is it Filipinos and not Philippinos?
Good question for the 'ask a question' thread. I'm not really sure.
It is very simple, I was asking you to provide proof that USA spy planes are flying over China day in day out as you claimed. If you can't do it, just admit you can't and the discussion can end there.
USA spying USSR with U2 in 1960 is not a proof.
China alleging USA spying China in 1964 is not a proof.
USA's love of spying is not a proof (as a cheap example, Giggs is a habitual woman abuser, doesn't necessarily means he has abused his sister or mum)
My discussion with you is not related to whether USA loves spying or not or whether USA is a righteous or evil nation, but "whether USA spy planes are flying over China day in day out". That's it. Don't rant, don't get mad. Be objective and stick to the topic please.
where I say "day in day out"? you are so shameful that you quote me on "whether USA spy planes are flying over China day in day out" . Do you know even know how quotes are used for?
My initial comment
"US had been sending over china airspace....."? It had been,
"....and other countries over decades"? it had been
Now turn around and feck off because you are embarrassing yourself I'll rant as much as I want of someone that nitpicks on something that is widespread known just to be right and then quotes me in things that I never said and then lists things that I said that you consider true (now you will backtrack because somehow) that fits exactly with the sentence that I said originally and you somehow poorly challenged. Ridiculous
In the end you fail to show any evidence that US had been sending over china airspace over decades. End of the story. Control your emotion please.
I failed in nothing in my claimes, you in the other hand lied on what you you said i said just to suit your narrative. First person in my ignore list. Fairwell
it's funny how, after the USSR fell, china and russia have swapped their rhetoric
How serious is this, Canadians on the Caf?
You'd think that a journalist would know how to properly use commas.
It does not tell me much. If the evidence gathered by the CSIS is really serious, the case would have been referred to the RCMP and someone would have been arrested by now. So why are we here 4 years since 2019 with nothing more concrete? I pay taxes with hope that the CSIS and the RCMP will do their job, but they will have to do a lot better than those allegations.
Last time that this topic was brewing a lot more, there were talks of pro-CCP candidates on all sides of the aisle. I want to root those people out, but know this: a single MP does not influence our country's foreign and economic policies. If Dong can be accused of collusion with China based on solid evidence, he will be outright expelled from the party prior to further action.
From the Russian Invasion of Ukraine thread.
I guess we are approaching the inevitable day when China will have to be blacklisted by the Western world for the geopolitical choices the CCP has made, undoing decades of non-aligned geopolitical diplomacy. It's not difficult where the bulk of those oil ships come from. The CCP better not complain that they have not been warned.
I guess we are approaching the inevitable day when China will have to be blacklisted by the Western world for the geopolitical choices the CCP has made, undoing decades of non-aligned geopolitical diplomacy. It's not difficult where the bulk of those oil ships come from. The CCP better not complain that they have not been warned.
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China needs to accept U.S. is a leader, Ambassador Burns says
Nicholas Burns, the U.S. ambassador to China, said that Washington was not seeking confrontation with Beijing, but U.S. leadership in some areas needed to be recognized.
https://www.nbcnews.com/video/china...s-a-leader-ambassador-burns-says-164164165750
Nicholas Burns, the U.S. ambassador to China, said that Washington was not seeking confrontation with Beijing, but U.S. leadership in some areas needed to be recognized.
https://www.nbcnews.com/video/china...s-a-leader-ambassador-burns-says-164164165750
Another one among those Wolf Warriors at the helm of Chinese diplomacy. If people think Mike Pompeo was bad and totally in the wrong chair, Pompeo is an altar boy compared to anyone from that faction of Chinese diplomats.
I knew this day was going to happen. Their MO has always been about infiltrating community centers and groups where the Chinese diaspora operates in every single major city out there. Then those agents would intimidate honest folks, who only want to live as far away as possible from such torments and from what the CCP wants. Time to root those true undesirables out.
RCMP investigating alleged Chinese government police stations in Quebec (CBC)
Apparently, the RCMP is receiving a lot of tips from responsible citizens through that hotline.
RCMP investigating alleged Chinese government police stations in Quebec (CBC)
Apparently, the RCMP is receiving a lot of tips from responsible citizens through that hotline.
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The Economist is not pulling back punches here.
The world according to Xi: Even if China’s transactional diplomacy brings some gains, it contains real perils
Two paragraphs are worth everyone's attention:
This is why people need tothink twice about whatever comes out of that country's mouth for as long as that regime stands.
The world according to Xi: Even if China’s transactional diplomacy brings some gains, it contains real perils
Two paragraphs are worth everyone's attention:
This is why people need tothink twice about whatever comes out of that country's mouth for as long as that regime stands.
Ultimately it takes two hands to clap. You don't blame China to be prepared.
There have been enough Western anti-China war drums beating in the media the past few years --- and combined with the number of alliances and bases around China -- it feels like it's being boxed incl. its shipping lanes. You just only have to look at the map of the military bases surrounding its borders and its shipping lanes.
Any sovereign country, never mind the 2nd largest economy in the world needs to do what its doing now -- for its long-term survival.
I live in Asia now.
Where I am, the US used to be looked upon very favourably but its been losing that position gradually in the past few years, especially amongst the younger generation. They don't see the US as the 'good guys' anymore -- more like the bullies at the moment. It needs to concentrate on soft power rather than some iron-fisted approach.
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They're no more being forced to invade Taiwan than Russia was forced to invade Ukraine. There are authoritarian dictatorships seeking to use war and manufactured nationalism as a distraction against growing domestic pro-democracy sentiment.
The US subscribes to the One China Policy.
So until it revokes that policy, it will only be seen as either provocative (and emboldening Taiwan) or trying to poke the bear and start a war.
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The massive trade restrictions, imposing conditinos on non-US semiconductor companies, AUKUS, Quad, the upcoming internet Great Firewall, are about a lot more than Taiwan.
You just have to look at the map below and you wonder why China thinks the way it does.
Its all along its trade routes and oil supply line. How is China a military threat to the US? Where are the Chinese bases around the US?
Its not like during the Cold War when the Soviets had allies and bases in quite a few countries incl the Eastern Bloc.
The difference here is pure economics. The US sees China as its biggest economic adversary for the foreseeable future and is using military intimidation to 'compete.'
Imagine if there were as many 'Chinese' bases globally and the US is where China is today, surrounded? What would the media, and US gov't's narrative be?