Club Sale | It’s done!

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Pogue Mahone said:
Not even close to what they achieved under Pep. Abu Dhabi bought them in 2008. They won two league titles in the 8 years before he was in charge. 4 (soon to be 5) in the 6 season since. The connection between hiring Pep and their recent domination couldn't be more obvious.
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Yeah but they still won, you could even argue building a squad to win the title that hasn’t won before is a fantastic achievement. If Ten Hag did that now we would build him a statue!
I’d also argue Pep being announced at Christmas ruined Pellegrinis last season at City, they were clear at Christmas, won the league cup but went into free fall after that announcement.
Pep is a better manager than other City managers combined but let’s not lose sight of what it takes to be winning titles. Klopps a legend at Liverpool for a similar domestic record to Pellegrini.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Depends on what you mean by "their means". If Manchester United had replaced Fergie with the Pep +Baghiristan combo (and City had hired Moyes/Vangle/Mou/Ole) then we would have been the most dominant team of the last 10 years instead. Let's not forget that we have also spent a shit-load of cash.
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Clearly I mean City’s actual means. Which without all the bullshit sponsor deals is not £1.5bn. It’s probably less than a third of that.

You think Pep could do what he has done without the ridiculous squad he inherited and enhanced with unlimited funds?

Zero chance. He would have had some success relative to his spend but there is no way he would have dominated as he has.
 
jm99 said:
Obviously not, City's means we're about 30m a season before the takeover, I don't think Guardiola parachuted into a midtable side relying on their own money finishes top 4
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Guardiola wouldn't go into that fantasy scenario in the first place. Would have to to be perfectly setup and stacked with cash. Money is prerequisite, manager influence comes after.
 
PeteReDevil said:
Go back 10 years and ours is at -1180.96m and City is on -984.42m
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First of all we needed an entire new first xi where city had about 5 or 6 players that would make up their first xi for a fair few years. Also a lot of the net spend is just down to us being awful at selling players, it doesn't really reflect the level of investment in the side
 
Pexbo said:
Clearly I mean City’s actual means. Which without all the bullshit sponsor deals is not £1.5bn. It’s probably less than a third of that.

You think Pep could do what he has done without the ridiculous squad he inherited and enhanced with unlimited funds?

Zero chance. He would have had some success relative to his spend but there is no way he would have dominated as he has.
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Correct.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I didn't cap anything. I googled net spend and the first hit was a comparison of the last 5 years. You don't think half a decade is long enough to compare? How many of that 18/19 squad are still playing for City anyway?
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I’m not trying to argue what City would/wouldn’t look like without their oil money. I’m trying to argue that - for Manchester United - we don’t need oil money to be successful. So long as we hire the right manager. If Guardiola had joined United and been provided the same funds that United managers have had over the last decade (with the right football structures around him) there’s every chance the fortunes of the two clubs would have been reversed. We don’t need to join them to beat them. We’re better than that.
 
redcucumber said:
Ey? How are those statements different? They could happen in any eventuality - regardless of who our new owner is. Or are you saying with certainty that if Ratcliffe only buys 69% that we are guaranteed to be shit, that City will dominate world football and that you'll definitely stop watching United? Sounds very dramatic.
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I can't envisage a scenario where we can ever be top tier successful again when the Glazers are still involved, the club is responsible for even more debt (by proxy) and Ratcliffe's bike mate is overseeing transfers and recruitment. There's just too many red flags for this to work out in a way that's good in my opinion.
 
Godfather said:
Look at what Newcastle did under a new owner within a year and within FFP. Nice has been a failure so far and all we can hope for is that Jim would take United more seriously.
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Yeah, but that's just one season and for that season it seems they've gotten the manager right. But lets just wait and see how they will do for a bit (though anybody is a success over Mike Ashely).
As to your second part, I'm sure Jim will take United seriously with however many billions he'll be spending on it. But it doesn't mean I know how he'll run it, same with how I don't know Jassim would run it. I'm just saying its unfair comparing PSG and Nice ownerships, as well as extrapolating that to how United would be managed given the massive differences in the available means and expectations.
 
We need rid of the Glazers, we need a new stadium and a training complex!

We need money not Ratcliffe repeating Glazer's financial rope-a-dope tactics and dressing it up with "long-term sustainability" nonsense and drip drying us again.

Unfortunately Qatar doesn't have a great history but they have the resources and they know how to do "Big Time" and it's the best offer on the table. If better solutions were available to us we wouldn't be where we are now.
 
Moriarty said:
It was abnormal for Manchester United until the Glazers' leveaged buyout. We were solvent before that and able to pay our own way.
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That doesn't have anything to do with Ratcliffe's intent
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Pep and all the rest of the footballing organisation.

Net spend over the last 5 years

1) Chelsea: £-654.21m
22/23: £-480.38m
21/22: £5.79m (3rd)
20/21: £-166.86m (4th)
19/20: £98.57m (4th)
18/19: £-110.23m (3rd)

2) Manchester United: £-540.23m
22/23: £-203.26m
21/22: £-99.5m (6th)
20/21: £-56.45m (2nd)
19/20: £-134.87m (3rd)
18/19: £-45.8m (6th)

3) Arsenal: £-485.64m
22/23: £-148.94m
21/22: £-120m (5th)
20/21: £-59m (8th)
19/20: £-94.58m (8th)
18/19: £-62.71m (5th)

4) West Ham: £-356.5m
22/23: £-152.21m
21/22: £-62.02m (7th)
20/21: £-8.2m (6th)
19/20: £-56.77m (16th)
18/19: £-76.91m (10th)

5) Newcastle: £-351.89m
22/23: £-161.74m
21/22: £-115.19m (11th)
20/21: £-34.18m (12th)
19/20: £-32.89m (13th)
18/19: £-7.68m (13th)

6) Tottenham: £-332.48m
22/23: £-122.95m
21/22: £-54.09m (4th)
20/21: £-85.79m (7th)
19/20: £-74.14m (6th)
18/19: £4.72m (4th)

7) Wolves: £-276.55m
22/23: £-103.15m
21/22: £-5.09m (10th)
20/21: £-7.37m (13th)
19/20: £-81.3m (7th)
18/19: £-78.53m (7th)

8) Aston Villa: £-271.24m
22/23: £-40.73m
21/22: £-2.47m (14th)
20/21: £-87.01m (11th)
19/20: £-138.13m (17th)
18/19: £-2.6m (5th in Championship)

9) Liverpool: £-254.19m
22/23: £-49.7m
21/22: £-50.44m (2nd)
20/21: £-58.7m (3rd)
19/20: £29.94m (Champions)
18/19: £-123.7m (2nd)

10) Manchester City: £-224.97m
22/23: £8.3m
21/22: £-39.81m (Champions)
20/21: £-96.56m (Champions)
19/20: £-78.13m (2nd)
18/19: £-18.54m (Champions)

We've spent well over twice as much as Manchester City yet people still think we'll pass them out if only we spent a bit more money...
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I’d bet a sizeable amount of money that City have paid more than we know about for players. There’s no way a club with their resources gets away with the fees they supposedly pay for players, yet we get a massive tax on anyone we buy. Especially considering all their underhand financials that we already know about.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I’m not trying to argue what City would/wouldn’t look like without their oil money. I’m trying to argue that - for Manchester United - we don’t need oil money to be successful. So long as we hire the right manager. If Guardiola had joined United and been provided the same funds that United managers have had over the last decade (with the right football structures around him) there’s every chance the fortunes of the two clubs would have been reversed. We don’t need to join them to beat them. We’re better than that.
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Dunno. Another huge factor is the backroom stuff and director level. We spent a huge sum but wasted most of it. I assume even Pep couldn't have worked wonders with the squads we assembled. City are doing a pretty good job with their recruiting. I hope this will be dealt with when a new owner comes in. Murthough and Arnold haven't done anything so far that screams we are the right ones for the job.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I’m not trying to argue what City would/wouldn’t look like without their oil money. I’m trying to argue that - for Manchester United - we don’t need oil money to be successful. So long as we hire the right manager. If Guardiola had joined United and been provided the same funds that United managers have had over the last decade (with the right football structures around him) there’s every chance the fortunes of the two clubs would have been reversed. We don’t need to join them to beat them. We’re better than that.
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Exactly right, the Scouse haven't spent loads and they have the right manager and have pushed City to the wire a few times, prior to that FSG ownership was patchy AF due to managers and transfers

If you get the manager correct you'll likely be successful at United even if they carried on as is with the current spending, we just haven't spent it wisely at all and this goes all the way back to Moyes and Van Gaal
 
Godfather said:
Dunno. Another huge factor is the backroom stuff and director level. We spent a huge sum but wasted most of it. I assume even Pep couldn't have worked wonders with the squads we assembled. City are doing a pretty good job with their recruiting. I hope this will be dealt with when a new owner comes in. Murthough and Arnold haven't done anything so far that screams we are the right ones for the job.
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Definitely. There's a lot of stuff to consider in running a successful club. I'm only taking issue with people who seem to think success is inconceivable unless we're owned by an oil state. A small club like City might need that sort of investment. We don't. As we can all see from the fact that our net spend exceeds City's over the last decade. And that's with the famously most stingy owners in football.
 
Real Name said:
Noo, I'm not hostile, sorry if it looked that way. I just mean that poster is going all doom and gloom about SJR and not Qatar win. Sorry again.
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Ah no worries bud. All good. Miscommunication is par for the course online!
 
jm99 said:
Obviously not, City's means we're about 30m a season before the takeover, I don't think Guardiola parachuted into a midtable side relying on their own money finishes top 4
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We aren't talking about city taking over a relegation candidate ffs
 
bosnian_red said:
We aren't talking about city taking over a relegation candidate ffs
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He said city spending within their means, their means without UAE is about 30m a season. Pogue said pep is the main reason for their success, whereas I imagine it was the takeover that led to them injecting hundreds of millions of pounds and going from mid-table to champions in 4 years
 
Godfather said:
Look at what Newcastle did under a new owner within a year and within FFP. Nice has been a failure so far and all we can hope for is that Jim would take United more seriously.
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This is a great point, leadership starts from the top, it’s not always about money and buying the best players. Newcastle turnover is £179m and they can’t really move in the Transfer market the way they want to because they need Champions League football first, so they’ve recruited smartly.

Eventually in 2 or 3 years, they will have a huge turnover of £500m with CL football every season and probably a 70,000 seater stadium sold out. If Eddie Howe can’t compete for CL, Fa Cup and PL trophies they will simply sack him and get a new coach without any sentiment whatsoever!

Their Owners demand success, that’s filtered down through the relevant line management structure, The Glazers and SJR have the same type of laissez fair attitude where ‘Wining is not at all costs’

SJR is probably as wealthy as Roman Abrahamovic, maybe even richer but wealth doesn’t guarantee success in football, Abrahamovic loved Chelsea and he only wanted to win, not take part, not take dividends, not say look at me I’ve built a great football team in London, No he only wanted to win, and everyone he employed bought into his wining culture or he sacked them, to go from that to Todd Boehly is why they are suffering so much right now. The yanks don’t want to win at all costs, listening to them In the World Cup, they just don’t get jeopardy or even when they go out, they’ll look at the stats they to show a different Perspective and talk about how they and not Canada are the best team
I’m that continent.

To go from the Glazers to SJR won’t be nearly as bad however, don’t expect miracles, maybe United is in SJR’s blood and he will want to win at any costs the moment he starts his tenure if his bid is accepted, personally I think this is all brinkmanship and it’s still not decided who the preferred bidder is because the Glazers want more cash and they will wait till they get it ?
 
cyberman said:
Yeah but they still won, you could even argue building a squad to win the title that hasn’t won before is a fantastic achievement. If Ten Hag did that now we would build him a statue!
I’d also argue Pep being announced at Christmas ruined Pellegrinis last season at City, they were clear at Christmas, won the league cup but went into free fall after that announcement.
Pep is a better manager than other City managers combined but let’s not lose sight of what it takes to be winning titles. Klopps a legend at Liverpool for a similar domestic record to Pellegrini.
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Yes. Pellegrini is an excellent and much underrated manager.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Definitely. There's a lot of stuff to consider in running a successful club. I'm only taking issue with people who seem to think success is inconceivable unless we're owned by an oil state. A small club like City might need that sort of investment. We don't. As we can all see from the fact that our net spend exceeds City's over the last decade. And that's with the famously most stingy owners in football.
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Yeah I definitely agree with that. Doesn't mean I'd be happy with a owner that doesn't show the ambition needed to make us a success again.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I’m not trying to argue what City would/wouldn’t look like without their oil money. I’m trying to argue that - for Manchester United - we don’t need oil money to be successful. So long as we hire the right manager. If Guardiola had joined United and been provided the same funds that United managers have had over the last decade (with the right football structures around him) there’s every chance the fortunes of the two clubs would have been reversed. We don’t need to join them to beat them. We’re better than that.
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Agreed but only if we have tempered expectations. In a couple of years, Newcastle will be spending similar amounts of money as City. We will likely have to hope for both to have a lean season + hope we can do better than the likes of Chelsea, arsenal and Liverpool. 2 of these 5 clubs have very accomplished managers. We're already third in the league in terms of revenue, needing stadium and facility investments.
 
jm99 said:
He said city spending within their means, their means without UAE is about 30m a season. Pogue said pep is the main reason for their success, whereas I imagine it was the takeover that led to them injecting hundreds of millions of pounds and going from mid-table to champions in 4 years
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City's money would have made them competitors, yes.
Pep is what made them the best team around and dominant. Without the money they wouldn't have got Pep. But the point is - without Pep, they wouldn't see this level of success. Look at the Premier league growth and spending power all around. Pep could take over a mid table team and yes it'd take them a few years but he'd grow them into challengers. He's an all time great as a manager and it is by far the most important position in football.
 
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