Club Sale | It’s done!

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dpansheth said:
And that’s reasoning too .
We currently need a shitload of money to be invested, both in players and infrastructure till we start winning again , i.e. increasing our cashflows again. Man city and chelsea will continue to spend big , so would you say this line about INEOS after 4-5 year: “they clearly didn’t want to do that”
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Comparative to our income, I don’t think we need massive levels of cash injected for players. We need to be far better at finding the right players and selling. We’ve been spending an absolute tonne and getting beat by teams like Brighton and Brentford. More money invested into the likes of Harry Kane won’t change this.

The infrastructure won’t make us suddenly start winning either. I don’t see anything wrong with long term loans to renovate OT like almost every other team in the world needs to do. Look at Real Madrid, why on earth should we need to be any different in terms of financing. They are renovating the stadium and replaced their ageing team with no problem.
 
Godfather said:
This argument has been brought up so often but also isn't convincing in the slightest. Nobody expects them to compete with PSG (at least straight away). But they have zero progress so far and you can't tell me it would be that hard to get into the CL places in France regularly with a multi billionaire as an owner. Not if he has any clue or interest. One of the two things are lacking at Nice and I hope it's the interest part.
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Its not hard if you are allowed to spend unlimited money. But Nice is spending within their means due to FFP for now. Just having a quick look at the wage bill in the French league, Nice is like 5-6th in that list (PSG is almost 10x of Nice). So, I'd not judge the progress there within 4 years in such conditions and it's not a fair comparison to what PSG did under Qatar.
 
UnitedSofa said:
What a way to move the goal posts.

I think midtable to relegation is considerably worse than EL/UCL despite considerable drop in success in the last decade if memory serves me rightly we only missed out on Europe once and that was 7th under Moyes. Apart from that we’ve been a consistent team in Europe. However you want to spin it, that’s MUCH better than taking a midtable team to relegation. Even being champions to relegation!

SJR will be an absolute disaster
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On this I agree but for the record I’m the last 11 seasons we’ve played EL 4 times and CL 7 times so yep the very definition of Yo Yo considering Sir Alex qualified for 13/14 season!
 
cyberman said:
Every manager has been successful for them though?
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Not even close to what they achieved under Pep. Abu Dhabi bought them in 2008. They won two league titles in the 8 years before he was in charge. 4 (soon to be 5) in the 6 season since. The connection between hiring Pep and their recent domination couldn't be more obvious.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Not even close to what they achieved under Pep. Abu Dhabi bought them in 2008. They won two league titles in the 8 years before he was in charge. 4 (soon to be 5) in the 6 season since. The connection between hiring Pep and their recent domination couldn't be more obvious.
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Pep is obviously a factor, but this is a disingenuous take.
2008 to the first title is tough (they had to build a side able to challenge), Pep took over a side ready to win titles (they had already won 2)
Pep also probably wouldn't have dominated as much as he did without the wild spending either
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Glazers staying and dept stays. But lots of people still want Jim over Qatar. Blimey.
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If this happens I'll probably stop watching. I can cope with the uncertainty of "will we be good next year? Will we be shit? Who knows!?", but I can't cope with the idea of knowing we're going to be on the losing end of everything while City dominate the league and Europe for at least the next 10 years.
 
Gavinb33 said:
City would clearly win stuff without Pep but they wouldnt win as much without question in recent times without Guardiola Liverpool would have wiped the floor with them let's be real here there is no manager like Pep in the world and he is the main reason for City's domination over the past 7 years, buying players is easy it's getting them to play is the hard thing
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Right, but being able to just discard 50m defenders on a whim and bring in more whenever you want makes it a lot easier. Imagine what position we might be in if instead of having to sign weghorst in January our owners could just splash 100m and bring in a top striker. Its not just how much the Glazers have spent its when they've spent it, mourinho finished 2nd in 17/18 but instead of trying to close the gap to city all he got was Fred and that was it. We've been in a position since 2013 where we constantly have to try and patch holes in the team, but the issue is because we needed a whole new team we didn't have time to blood youngsters we had to buy players who were 28 or 30 who were ready to go, but then of course by the time we patched up the other areas, then we had to replace these players again and so on. If we'd had Qatar backing us we'd have spent more, given we've spent about 350m on dividends and interest payments since 2013, it would have made a huge difference
 
The Ferociousness said:
This will be terrible news for us if this turns out to be true. We will be going nowhere fast under SJR, you only have to look at what has gone on at Nice. Prior to the takeover by Ineos Nice FC they finished in the top 4 several times in the past 6 years Their success was due to astute scouting plus selling players at a profit.. SJR made a big assertion and announced that Nice FC would challenge PSG and be in europe at the time of the takeover however there has been no such success since taking over in 2019. The ex manager of Nice FC Christopher Galtier was poenly critical of the clubs recruitment and the calibre of the people handling the transfers and critical of Ineo's commitment. According to the Guardian and Le Parisien the manager had lost faith in Ineos prior to his departure. The Nice FC sporting director, coach and CEO all left. Ineos then hired Iain Moody who would go on to recruit a bunch of EPL has-beens.

According to the Guardian Nice FC were left with a talented but disjointed squad due to a lack of planning and shared thinking with a scattergun approach to transfers. The atmosphere surrounding the club was described as toxic and the team is struggling. In short Ineo's ownership of Nice FC has been chaotic and instead of challenging PSG like SJR promised, he has actually led to management and coach departures,poor recruitment and poor performance on the pitch in favour of nepotism through appointing his brother and cycling coaches as directorss. The Ineos ownership of Nice FC actually sounds a lot like the Glazers ownership of United. Broken promises, nepotism, penny pinching all things we've gone through for the last 18 years under the Glazers The Guardian newspaper examined the ownership of Nice FC under Ineos and they were highly critical. The Nice FC fans aren't happy and neither were the former coach and management where the club is now a mid table club some 27 points behind PSG.

If SJR hasn't got the heart for Nice, don't expect him to have the Heart for United, a former chelsea ticket holder who has said he didn't visit old trafford because travel was an inconconvience
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Great post, I read the same thing about nice. We can not afford another shambolic reign of idiocy.

Will Jassim be the lesser poison? I hope so, I do believe apart from money they will bring in a solid structure and allow people with the necessary experience to run the football side of things while they sustain or even improve on the business front.
 
crossy1686 said:
If this happens I'll probably stop watching. I can cope with the uncertainty of "will we be good next year? Will we be shit? Who knows!?", but I can't cope with the idea of knowing we're going to be on the losing end of everything while City dominate the league and Europe for at least the next 10 years.
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Hell of a supporter.
 
Pexbo said:
Which one do you think would be most successful?
  1. Spending £1.5bn and having another manager.
  2. Having Guardiola but only spending within their means.
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Depends on what you mean by "their means". If Manchester United had replaced Fergie with the Pep +Baghiristan combo (and City had hired Moyes/Vangle/Mou/Ole) then we would have been the most dominant team of the last 10 years instead. Let's not forget that we have also spent a shit-load of cash.
 
Amarsdd said:
Its not hard if you are allowed to spend unlimited money. But Nice is spending within their means due to FFP for now. Just having a quick look at the wage bill in the French league, Nice is like 5-6th in that list (PSG is almost 10x of Nice). So, I'd not judge the progress there within 4 years in such conditions and it's not a fair comparison to what PSG did under Qatar.
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Look at what Newcastle did under a new owner within a year and within FFP. Nice has been a failure so far and all we can hope for is that Jim would take United more seriously.
 
jm99 said:
Well rather than just looking at the season before I was looking at the previous 4 seasons, where psg had finished below 10th twice and nice had been 7th, 8th 3rd and 4th. I figured rather than just going off one season which could be an outlier, looking across the 4 seasons before, which is thr same amount of time ineos have had at nice to enact changes, would be fairer
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It’s easy enough to pick and choose seasons if you want to look at it that way. I don’t really think that a team finishing 3rd and 4th suddenly means that’s their expectation. Look at the seasons before then, 3rd and 4th are the outliers. They aren’t close to being the 4th biggest team in France.

PSG is unique in that it’s a much younger club, but they did have decent successes through the 90’s before the money problems. I don’t think people should underestimate the pull of Paris either. No other city in France can compete with that. Imagine if London only had one team.
 
crossy1686 said:
If this happens I'll probably stop watching. I can cope with the uncertainty of "will we be good next year? Will we be shit? Who knows!?", but I can't cope with the idea of knowing we're going to be on the losing end of everything while City dominate the league and Europe for at least the next 10 years.
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I hope the club can cope.
 
Assuming any articles the last 24 hours about preferred bidders can be ignored. No one has a clue. Just random speculation.
 
Cassidy said:
Pep is obviously a factor, but this is a disingenuous take.
2008 to the first title is tough (they had to build a side able to challenge), Pep took over a side ready to win titles (they had already won 2)
Pep also probably wouldn't have dominated as much as he did without the wild spending either
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I have to say I agree with Pogue. A point I have made many times over the years.
The idea City would have been anywhere near this good for this long under another coach is fanciful.
Look at the chemistry, look at how hard every single player works, look at his transfer record and how almost every single player seems to slot into the system. That's on Pep.
City hired a generational talent (in terms of coaches). That has to right up there in reasons for their success.
 
Dan_F said:
It’s easy enough to pick and choose seasons if you want to look at it that way. I don’t really think that a team finishing 3rd and 4th suddenly means that’s their expectation. Look at the seasons before then, 3rd and 4th are the outliers. They aren’t close to being the 4th biggest team in France.

PSG is unique in that it’s a much younger club, but they did have decent successes through the 90’s before the money problems. I don’t think people should underestimate the pull of Paris either. No other city in France can compete with that. Imagine if London only had one team.
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Well it's not really picking and choosing, any team can have one season as an outlier, the previous 3 or 4 seasons is probably a better judge of a team's quality. I don't expect them to compete with psg, but the French league isn't that strong and you'd think with ineos owning them, becoming the second strongest team wouldn't be too much to ask, instead they haven't improved at all
 
Cassidy said:
Pep is obviously a factor, but this is a disingenuous take.
2008 to the first title is tough (they had to build a side able to challenge), Pep took over a side ready to win titles (they had already won 2)
Pep also probably wouldn't have dominated as much as he did without the wild spending either
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Chelsea went from oil money to first title quickly enough. Because they hired the right manager almost straight away
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Bringing up Hitler into an unrelated argument......yeah you've already lost this one mate.

Do you want wealthy Sir Jim or do you want a human rights abusing and modern day slavery promoting regime? If it's the latter that's fine but just be aware of what it entails.
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Winning arguments on the internet - christ man grow up.

The idea that one billionaire is better than another is preposterous. They’re all a bunch of slimy self serving cnuts and nobody has made billions without disregard for human rights along the way. You’re green as grass if you think otherwise - Billionaires in the west work harder to hide it and use green washing schemes to outsource their human rights abuses to the third world. You won’t have to dig very far to find INEOS guilty of pretty awful stuff, I’d wager that you either haven’t bothered looking or you’re happy to look the other way or excuse it because his facade fits more comfortably for you.
 
Adisa said:
I have to say I agree with Pogue. A point I have made many times over the years.
The idea City would have been anywhere near this good for this long under another coach is fanciful.
Look at the chemistry, look at how hard every single player works, look at his transfer record and how almost every single player seems to slot into the system. That's on Pep.
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Pep and all the rest of the footballing organisation.

Net spend over the last 5 years

1) Chelsea: £-654.21m
22/23: £-480.38m
21/22: £5.79m (3rd)
20/21: £-166.86m (4th)
19/20: £98.57m (4th)
18/19: £-110.23m (3rd)

2) Manchester United: £-540.23m
22/23: £-203.26m
21/22: £-99.5m (6th)
20/21: £-56.45m (2nd)
19/20: £-134.87m (3rd)
18/19: £-45.8m (6th)

3) Arsenal: £-485.64m
22/23: £-148.94m
21/22: £-120m (5th)
20/21: £-59m (8th)
19/20: £-94.58m (8th)
18/19: £-62.71m (5th)

4) West Ham: £-356.5m
22/23: £-152.21m
21/22: £-62.02m (7th)
20/21: £-8.2m (6th)
19/20: £-56.77m (16th)
18/19: £-76.91m (10th)

5) Newcastle: £-351.89m
22/23: £-161.74m
21/22: £-115.19m (11th)
20/21: £-34.18m (12th)
19/20: £-32.89m (13th)
18/19: £-7.68m (13th)

6) Tottenham: £-332.48m
22/23: £-122.95m
21/22: £-54.09m (4th)
20/21: £-85.79m (7th)
19/20: £-74.14m (6th)
18/19: £4.72m (4th)

7) Wolves: £-276.55m
22/23: £-103.15m
21/22: £-5.09m (10th)
20/21: £-7.37m (13th)
19/20: £-81.3m (7th)
18/19: £-78.53m (7th)

8) Aston Villa: £-271.24m
22/23: £-40.73m
21/22: £-2.47m (14th)
20/21: £-87.01m (11th)
19/20: £-138.13m (17th)
18/19: £-2.6m (5th in Championship)

9) Liverpool: £-254.19m
22/23: £-49.7m
21/22: £-50.44m (2nd)
20/21: £-58.7m (3rd)
19/20: £29.94m (Champions)
18/19: £-123.7m (2nd)

10) Manchester City: £-224.97m
22/23: £8.3m
21/22: £-39.81m (Champions)
20/21: £-96.56m (Champions)
19/20: £-78.13m (2nd)
18/19: £-18.54m (Champions)

We've spent well over twice as much as Manchester City yet people still think we'll pass them out if only we spent a bit more money...
 
bosnian_red said:
Guardiola without a doubt
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Probably, yes, but Guardiola wouldn't go into the second setup. He went to City because they had the perfect setup (having spent a feckton of money) AND having the ability to spend another feckton of money every year.

In short, City are where they are due to the money primarily, Guardiola next.
 
Adisa said:
I have to say I agree with Pogue. A point I have made many times over the years.
The idea City would have been anywhere near this good for this long under another coach is fanciful.
Look at the chemistry, look at how hard every single player works, look at his transfer record and how almost every single player seems to slot into the system. That's on Pep.
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That is bullshit on transfers, he signed many duds and just discarded them, particularly early on.
Most of Citys best players were signed prior to Pep also.

I'm not saying Pep isn't a major factor, but its also obvious that if Pep took over in 2008 he would have struggled to dominate as he has (which was the point I was making)
 
crossy1686 said:
If this happens I'll probably stop watching. I can cope with the uncertainty of "will we be good next year? Will we be shit? Who knows!?", but I can't cope with the idea of knowing we're going to be on the losing end of everything while City dominate the league and Europe for at least the next 10 years.
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Ey? How are those statements different? They could happen in any eventuality - regardless of who our new owner is. Or are you saying with certainty that if Ratcliffe only buys 69% that we are guaranteed to be shit, that City will dominate world football and that you'll definitely stop watching United? Sounds very dramatic.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Chelsea went from oil money to first title quickly enough. Because they hired the right manager almost straight away
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And because they spent at a level that's basically been unmatched accounting for football inflation, I think it's the equivalent of about 400m in a summer today.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Pep and all the rest of the footballing organisation.

Net spend over the last 5 years:


1) Chelsea: £-654.21m
22/23: £-480.38m
21/22: £5.79m (3rd)
20/21: £-166.86m (4th)
19/20: £98.57m (4th)
18/19: £-110.23m (3rd)

2) Manchester United: £-540.23m
22/23: £-203.26m
21/22: £-99.5m (6th)
20/21: £-56.45m (2nd)
19/20: £-134.87m (3rd)
18/19: £-45.8m (6th)

3) Arsenal: £-485.64m
22/23: £-148.94m
21/22: £-120m (5th)
20/21: £-59m (8th)
19/20: £-94.58m (8th)
18/19: £-62.71m (5th)

4) West Ham: £-356.5m
22/23: £-152.21m
21/22: £-62.02m (7th)
20/21: £-8.2m (6th)
19/20: £-56.77m (16th)
18/19: £-76.91m (10th)

5) Newcastle: £-351.89m
22/23: £-161.74m
21/22: £-115.19m (11th)
20/21: £-34.18m (12th)
19/20: £-32.89m (13th)
18/19: £-7.68m (13th)

6) Tottenham: £-332.48m
22/23: £-122.95m
21/22: £-54.09m (4th)
20/21: £-85.79m (7th)
19/20: £-74.14m (6th)
18/19: £4.72m (4th)

7) Wolves: £-276.55m
22/23: £-103.15m
21/22: £-5.09m (10th)
20/21: £-7.37m (13th)
19/20: £-81.3m (7th)
18/19: £-78.53m (7th)

8) Aston Villa: £-271.24m
22/23: £-40.73m
21/22: £-2.47m (14th)
20/21: £-87.01m (11th)
19/20: £-138.13m (17th)
18/19: £-2.6m (5th in Championship)

9) Liverpool: £-254.19m
22/23: £-49.7m
21/22: £-50.44m (2nd)
20/21: £-58.7m (3rd)
19/20: £29.94m (Champions)
18/19: £-123.7m (2nd)

10) Manchester City: £-224.97m
22/23: £8.3m
21/22: £-39.81m (Champions)
20/21: £-96.56m (Champions)
19/20: £-78.13m (2nd)
18/19: £-18.54m (Champions)
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Why have you capped it at 18/19? They had already amassed the best squad in the league by then
 
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