Spot on.
My dad maintains that aside from 99 and 93, watching United in the second division in 74/75 was his best time watching United. Relegation reinvigorated the club after it stagnated after the European Cup win in 68.
Club Sale | It’s done!
- Thread starter JB08
- Start date
- Status
Spot on.
My dad maintains that aside from 99 and 93, watching United in the second division in 74/75 was his best time watching United. Relegation reinvigorated the club after it stagnated after the European Cup win in 68.
Very.
Calling it a world record bid is like saying Chelsea were sold for £4.5bn...
They weren't.
I get people don't like it, but after all the blister and bravado it just seems a bit lacklustre.
Tell your dad I agree with him.
Did anyone work out what the “paying off the debt” part of Qataris offer meant since I was last here?
Some are saying it means Glazers get 69% of the £5bn+, PLUS the Qatari owner will pay off their remaining debts (probably close to £1bn worth) - which would be a ridiculously good deal for the Glazers
Others seem to think the Glazers wouldn’t be liable for the debts they put into United when they leave anyway…
Some are saying it means Glazers get 69% of the £5bn+, PLUS the Qatari owner will pay off their remaining debts (probably close to £1bn worth) - which would be a ridiculously good deal for the Glazers
Others seem to think the Glazers wouldn’t be liable for the debts they put into United when they leave anyway…
For me, I'd be quite happy with someone who simply allowed the club to run off its own substantial means.
Others don't believe that's enough.
Well said. Everyone in this thread has been needlessly talking in circles for months. The Glazers frankly have to sell because of their debt service but have been, predictably, trying to create as much leverage as they could with partial sell bids and threats to stay on without any sale. The Club’s books clearly show this.
Bidders pretty much know this as well, which is why the bids aren’t going to go insane. A full sale will happen with the best bid in the end. Period.
If that Qatar bid delivers only 3.5bn to the Glazers, I cannot see it working. It is indeed a world record bid given the full club valuation but it'd be pretty amateur if Qatar have valued the Glazer shares the same as the ones being traded publicly on the stock exchange.
They may well have done that but I just don't see the rats accepting. Then there's the question of the Ratcliffe valuation because that's even less clear.
They may well have done that but I just don't see the rats accepting. Then there's the question of the Ratcliffe valuation because that's even less clear.
Who is the mythical owner looking to invest 6 billion to not make money? You want a unicorn.
SJR bid was £4bn for 100% of the club but he only wished to buy and finance controlling shares, which would have been £2.76bn or $3.5bn. At the time the club shares were about $18 and the market cap $2.9bn so the Glazers voting shares were worth about $2bn so he was offering a huge premium to sell their shares and take control, he had no intention of buying the rest of the club, he just wanted control.
As the process continues through the 3 phases the shares have peaked at $27 and are now down at $20.05 so the new market cap today is $3.27bn and 69% of that $2.58 billion with a much rumoured bid of £5.1-5.2bn that means the bid $6.53bn and 69% would be $4.49bn or nearly twice the market cap, basically $40 per share.
You are right.
The fact is the game itself has been taken over by money. Its not just United.
The City comparisons though are ill thought out.
We are not in their situation.
The key question though is why do Qatar want to buy the club.
Not for investment purposes. They don't need the money.
These people think their wealth gives them legitimacy.
They are scum.
But we cannot control what is happening.
We have a choice. Continue supporting the club or leave.
Personally it is sad that future generations will not see what we have seen.
Everything will be tainted in some way.
Don't get me wrong, the offer is far more than they deserve but unfortunately that's not how this works.
The only figure I am taking into consideration is the figure that the Glazers would bank.
But that not what I said.
I do agree somewhat but the moral issue is something we have accepted in football for years, Qatar world cup, tours of unsavoury nation's, clubs taken over by oil states, everything monitized and prices going through the roof and unaffordable to many working class people.
The soul of football has been sold many times in the last 20/30 years and the fans have been brainwashed into money being more important than trophies
We(football fans everywhere) celebrate a top 4 position over winning the FA cup FFS and it goes further that arsenal for example where getting the piss taken out of them for winning the FA cup.
I fear the INEOS bid more now
Roughly £180 million profit for every year they have owned United, a club that they never had any right to own, who have gone on to financailly abuse in every possible way, and will be basically leaving behind an infrastructure exactly as they found it.
This is jackpot time for them, the stuff of dreams.
If they reject this because they don't think it's enough for their greedy sticky little mits, then I really hope all hell breaks loose for them.
Ok, the Glazers do what you say. Do you believe it is realistic that an investor other than a state such as Qatar pays the sum they want and then clears the debt? What has happened in practise says no. You’re back to chasing a unicorn.
By any chance do you have any links to reports of the breakdown of Ratcliffes bids? The details seem to be far less readily available than the Qatari bids.
Thanks for the breakdown though.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't the bidders been told not to say too much? Their plans for the club don't really matter in reality unless they win the bidding war. That's why Qatar's PR has been totally useless in my opinion, since the Glazers won't care about what the fans want.
We're talking about money oriented parasites who value their share of the club far above what's being offered and two of them think it could almost double in value in years to come.
Not sure why suddenly people have decided that this isn't who the Glazers are based on this bid.
My source tells me Glazers are edging towards the Qatari bid.
Ben Jacobs had just spoken with gong man Sam. Basically according to him
a- Jassim's offer might be better, equal or worse then that of SJR
b- SJR might or might keep the Glazers in place
c- The Glazers might go for Jassim, SJR, a minority stake or go solo
d- One of the buyers might or might ask a private equity for help
a- Jassim's offer might be better, equal or worse then that of SJR
b- SJR might or might keep the Glazers in place
c- The Glazers might go for Jassim, SJR, a minority stake or go solo
d- One of the buyers might or might ask a private equity for help
The fact is if the FA had done its due diligence the Glazers could not have bought the club.
The fact they changed the rules after the fact proves that.
City will be relegated in all probability. So that is not the issue.
We taking the piss out of Arsenal is just fan rivalry.
But as I said it is all water under the bridge.
That’s not the case the shares are valued at $20.05 with a market cap of $3.27bn for 100% of the club, thus is that united should be valued at right now with our huge debt and inconsistent record on the playing field in the last 10 years.
SJ through his 92 Foundation is offering £5.1/5.2bn for 100% sale for the club which is $6.53bn, twice the market cap of $3.27bn Therefore the Glazers are getting $40 per share for all their A and B shares and 69% of $6.53bn is $4.5 billion for all 6 of them to sell their shares, remind me again what money any of them invested or bought the club with, they inherited the club on a leveraged buy out, only Daddy Malcolm put in any money £270m, not one of these parasitic goblins has put 1 cent into the club but they’ve collectively taken out over £1 billion out in dividends, management fees, salaries, Interest, shares being cashed in for personal benefit and not reinvested in the club.
Well given there has been a comparable bid for the club, but no commitment either way for investment or debt (due to not being able to disclose details of the bids) then we don't really know.
All we have, and again, people won't like it, is some complete no mark who has had every single thing he has, handed to him on a plate, using a handful of frankly questionable sports journalists and even worse, some absolute clowns on Twitter, making a bunch of claims which... As far as I can see, never actually materialise.
So please, do excuse my scepticism. Even that is based on taking the enormous leap and believing Jassim isn't just a front man for the Qatari State, which of course, we all know he is and therefore we are already starting off on a lie with them.
But again, if people are happy to accept that, more power to them.
If there's any justice, the deal will fall through because of their greed and the fans finally rise in unison to make it so difficult for them that they are forced into selling on the cheap.
Covering every single base I see
Seriously I wasted 1hr of my life
City being relegated could be one of the greatest days in the history of English football. A potential watershed moment, that would change the game for the better.
If the League has the balls to do it, I would hope they'd go further and put in place protections to remove the disease of State ownership from the game in this country. Just imagine it.
They are the ones who decided they want to go down this road, and put the club up for sale, and we also all know why.
Well now they have an incredible offer on the table, one that they do not deserve to have, so take it.
£6 billion is too much, and they have no right to ask for this, but we all know that you set a price higher than you think something is worth so you end up getting to price you actually want, which hopefully is what's going in here.
I believe that the majority of clubs have voted to prevent future State ownerships. Though it is not retroactive.
The City situation should not have been tolerated so long.
But better late than never.
What you are saying is technically correct and I detest the Glazers as much as anyone but using the open market valuation is a bit of a red herring to me (I remember you had a background in finance, so feel free to disagree).
Why do I think that? Because whatever Qatar offers/the Glazers get for United, the public stock price will catch up to eventually. Just like how it works in takeovers where the premium (around 20/30%) gets priced in due course. That's why the stock rose up from doldrums in the first place after so many years of mismanagement.
If the offer was $7bn for the whole club but most of this went to the Glazers, then I can see it being successful. So something like $55/share for the Glazer shares and $25/share for the open market shares makes more sense to me. That gets you to $25x50m + $55x110m for overall valuation of just over $7bn. Obviously, this not including debt is also outrageous but the Glazers just don't care.
Investment and other stuff like that is completely irrelevant to the greedy leeches, unless fan pressure counts for anything with the Glazers (it hasn't so far) or the government applies a bit of pressure in anticipation of the Qatari investment.
But Ratcliffe did disclose details of his initial bid and it was very carefully worded regarding the debt. No ‘fresh’ debt. Anybody with a critical mind can see that for what it is.
If anyone who thinks City will get relegated and everyone will get a fair crack at competing for the PL is delusional btw.
Some of you people live firmly with your head in the sand.
Some of you people live firmly with your head in the sand.
That clearly means that "old" dept will stay. On the other hand all stories regarding Qatari bid say that they WILL clear the dept. But again, Jassim didn't (i think) said it in his statement.
I didn't mention busby that was a different time and even he spent a record fee to get Dennis Law to utd. Our success was built on spending big money its not the only thing but it is a substantial part of it, are you really trying to say it wasn't? Yes Giggs and other class of 92 were important for our dominance in 90's, you know who else were Gary Pallister, Roy Keane and Andy Cole all of them british record signings when signed for utd. Same for 2000's, we wouldn't have had the success we had without likes of Rio Berba or rooney, 2 of those 3 record signings. Are people really trying to rewrite history and imagine us being leicester of 90's and 2000's? We had money and we spent it well, thats why we won things and the players we developed stuck around because we could pay well and win trophies.
Not relegated but IF they will be found guilty then they will get point deduction.
I remember when he wanted to put the “Manchester” back into Manchester United, but now he wants a little bit of American scrubs still on the side.
Malcolm Glazer was prohibited from buying an American sports team by way of a leveraged buyout but there were no such laws in place in the UK.
Remember when Sky wanted to buy us? The government of the day was bloody fast enough then to put the kibosh on that deal but they were happy enough to see a major club like United shoulder the debt of a carpetbagger like Glazer? It still beggars belief and it has been years since it happened.
Do you think City will be demoted? I honestly can't see it.
.
Funny then that those critical minds seem to lose that ability when it comes to other bids.
Its unbelievable people still trust journos on this, they haven't even been able to clarify with any certainty if the offers being made are 5bn for the whole club or 5bn for the glazer's share.
- Status