Club Sale | It’s done!

[JagUTD]

Simply going off what is in the tweets. The only relevant figure is the £3.45bn to the Glazer family.

Considering there's been page after page regarding the Qatar bid being nearly $1bn per Glazer... This would come someway short. Hence is not being all that impressive from the purely greed oriented Glazer POV.

And given that back in March, Ratcliffes bod for 69% of the club was being reported as over £4bn, then it appears to be a bit weird.

This is only going off what's being reported, which likely isn't accurate, but after all the fanfare and chest beating, it seems a bit meh...

 

[Rojofiam]

Qatar seems the best or let’s say least worrying option from a financial/debt point of view.
But can we stop with the desperate attempt to take PSG as example to justify Qatar’s ability to run a successful football club?
They have not just outspent, but clearly outspent everyone in their league.
In England even if we outspend City or Chelsea (which we probably won’t anyway), it will not be by a huge margin. Then there’s also Newcastle.
Translating Qatar’s PSG success to the PL this would mean 3-5th place for United year in year out.
They have been a joke in the CL despite being among Europe’s top spenders.

Also, the culture they've built at the club in these last 12 years. Every season, it's a circus, from top to bottom.

 

[HarryP]

Funniest post I've seen

Feck me…

Recency bias at play big time here.

PSG were CL semi finalists in 2021 and made the final the year before. They were unlucky not to win in what was a tight game. They were a very good side and far better than anything we've produced over the last decade. A lot of good stuff has been done at PSG but it's hard to overstate how many issues playing in such a poor league brings. They have to overpay hugely to attract top players to the league which makes the club infinitely more difficult to manage.

 

[JagUTD]

It's weird that we're discussing people turning down billions. Not only turning it down but to do so for a club whose fans hate them.

But this POV requires believing the Glazers are not entirely driven by money and would be happy to compromise on their desired figure quite significantly.

I mean, they might be... Probably not though.

 

[Baxquux]

People say "we can operate as a top club bla bla bla" then point to Brighton as some sort of corroboration. The team that's 26 points off of the top of the league - had players requesting moves away on twitter midway through the season and with major reports that their start players are looking to engineer moves away in the summer. Cool.

Clearly it's not about adopting the Brighton method wholesale, but about scaling certain aspects of it as part of 'operational intelligence' or whatever term you want to use: you could do that with better scouting, a loan then transition into 'first team' training, sub and then more frequent starts for players with the profile of Caicedo, whilst also using continued leverage to recruit bets youth players early o, then make 1 or 2 'impact' signings per year amongst more established players.

If you look at Bayern, they run a version of this, although not really recruiting from South American market so often. Even Chelsea in peak Abramovich did it up to a point, although more often this was about generating players to sell on in order to mitigate expenditure. You could argue that Man City have been increasingly doing this with the profile of their older 'youth' signings and then selling on with 'clauses' or buy-backs, or now with Alvarez etc actually bringing in early career promsing players from s america to play..

 

[JagUTD]

You’re not wrong, but it won’t be a popular opinion. This thread is largely populated by money hungry ostriches.

Again, all we have are reported figures from negotiations that are subject to an NDA... But it's all we have, and by those reported figures, Ratcliffe 2nd bid was for more than Qatars final bid.

Now, it may be that due to Ratcliffe being a bit more capable of adhering to the NDA, it's not been reported that his 2nd bid was what he valued 100% of the club, and the actual figure the Glazers got would be 69% of that.

Obviously we don't have any figures that I can see for Ratcliffes final bid. A couple of reports about offering an option for 2 Glazers to remain as minority investors but also reports of him tabling 2 separate offers. All of his offers appear, at least as far as we know, to be what will go to the Glazers as everything else is completely and utterly irrelevant to the sale (something I don't think everyone is appreciating).

 

[Plant0x84]

They were a very good side and far better than anything we've produced over the last decade.

And yet we knocked them out in the round of 16 in 2019 and beat them again in the group stages the following year. They also missed out on the league the season before last despite massively outspending the rest of the league.

 

[cyberman]

Have I missed something, why is the Qatar bid not considered good enough? Thought it was a world record bid?

It’s fans shitting their pants for no reason

 

[JagUTD]

Recency bias at play big time here.

PSG were CL semi finalists in 2021 and made the final the year before. They were unlucky not to win in what was a tight game. They were a very good side and far better than anything we've produced over the last decade. A lot of good stuff has been done at PSG but it's hard to overstate how many issues playing in such a poor league brings. They have to overpay hugely to attract top players to the league which makes the club infinitely more difficult to manage.

Mate, they're dreadful. I heard some figures thrown about today. The top 19 highest paid players in Ligue 1 are PSG players. They account for 1/3rd of the entire wage bill for Ligue 1.

There solution to everything is money. They have arguably the greatest ever talent pool on their doorstep and do nothing with it. They lack the foresight to see beyond immediate success and honestly if we every became like that, it would rank as one of the darkest moments in Uniteds history, right up there with the Glazer ownership.

They are an embarrassment to the sport of football. Tottenham reached a CL final. AC Milan or Inter are about to reach one. Winning it is a completely different matter.

 

[Spark]

People say "we can operate as a top club bla bla bla" then point to Brighton as some sort of corroboration. The team that's 26 points off of the top of the league - had players requesting moves away on twitter midway through the season and with major reports that their star players are looking to engineer moves away in the summer. Cool.

The fact that Brighton are 26 points off the top of the pinnacle of English football, shows just how potent having a clear vision and strategy is at a football club. This is fecking Brighton we’re talking about, no one is saying that we should have copied them man for man, pound for pound. If we were run as efficiently and successfully as Brighton, imagine what we could have achieved spending £1bn on players.

We’ve been rudderless for years, hopefully the new owners or structure or whatever moves away from United the vanity project spending stupid money on old expensive shite (we’re slowly moving in the right direction under ETH imo) and more towards solid strategic signings like City make - without the cheating - and Liverpool made, prior to their luck running out.

 

[Rozay]

People say "we can operate as a top club bla bla bla" then point to Brighton as some sort of corroboration. The team that's 26 points off of the top of the league - had players requesting moves away on twitter midway through the season and with major reports that their star players are looking to engineer moves away in the summer. Cool.

I don’t get it. They play good football, but they are nowhere near our level. We apparently ‘missed out’ on every player they sign, but the players we sign has us much higher in the table than them. Every year too, even in a bad year.

 

[VP89]

People say "we can operate as a top club bla bla bla" then point to Brighton as some sort of corroboration. The team that's 26 points off of the top of the league - had players requesting moves away on twitter midway through the season and with major reports that their star players are looking to engineer moves away in the summer. Cool.

Yes, becuase they are pointing to a model that maximizes their resources. If we did the same, we'd actually be operating like a top club.

It's not rocket science.

 

[Rozay]

The fact that Brighton are 26 points off the top of the pinnacle of English football, shows just how potent having a clear vision and strategy is at a football club. This is fecking Brighton we’re talking about, no one is saying that we should have copied them man for man, pound for pound. If we were run as efficiently and successfully as Brighton, imagine what we could have achieved spending £1bn on players.

We’ve been rudderless for years, hopefully the new owners or structure or whatever moves away from United the vanity project spending stupid money on old expensive shite (we’re slowly moving in the right direction under ETH imo) and more towards solid strategic signings like City make - without the cheating - and Liverpool made, prior to their luck running out.

With £1b we have built a team that operates at Champions League level. If we had Brighton’s budget, we wouldn’t. We have better and as a result do better. We don’t spend much more than Brighton and still finish below them. We are supposed to be better - and are!

 

[Cassidy]

The fact that Brighton are 26 points off the top of the pinnacle of English football, shows just how potent having a clear vision and strategy is at a football club. This is fecking Brighton we’re talking about, no one is saying that we should have copied them man for man, pound for pound. If we were run as efficiently and successfully as Brighton, imagine what we could have achieved spending £1bn on players.

We’ve been rudderless for years, hopefully the new owners or structure or whatever moves away from United the vanity project spending stupid money on old expensive shite (we’re slowly moving in the right direction under ETH imo) and more towards solid strategic signings like City make - without the cheating - and Liverpool made, prior to their luck running out.

Or is just shows that money is very important?

 

[Rozay]

Yes, becuase they are pointing to a model that maximizes their resources. If we did the same, we'd actually be operating like a top club.

It's not rocket science.

A model that involves them selling their best players.

 

[JagUTD]

With £1b we have built a team that operates at Champions League level. If we had Brighton’s budget, we wouldn’t. We have better and as a result do better. We don’t spend much more than Brighton and still finish below them. We are supposed to be better - and are!

What if Brighton had £1bn to play with?

Would their model work at that level or is it because they operate at a fraction of the top clubs budgets but maximise their returns both on and off the pitch, that is most impressive.

It would be interesting to see something like that happen with a club like Brighton or even Brentford just to see if their set up translates into success at a higher level.

 

[VP89]

A model that involves them selling their best players.

Because they are limited by their resources.

If we maximized our resources like they maximizer theirs then we'd actually perform like a tob club.

That means finding good talent and having a proper infrastructure, not throwing down the pan on overrated brands like Pogba et al.

 

[JPRouve]

Yes, becuase they are pointing to a model that maximizes their resources. If we did the same, we'd actually be operating like a top club.

It's not rocket science.

Not exactly. There is more competition for the caliber of player we want because they are not as common and we don't have a particular advantage out our level or the level we want to reach. What I mean by that is that Brighton maximizing is picking a player out of +20 similar players for United maximizing their resources is picking a player out of maybe 5 similar players if the position is deep.

In sport the higher you get the more difficult it is to improve.

 

[TsuWave]

Yes, becuase they are pointing to a model that maximizes their resources. If we did the same, we'd actually be operating like a top club.

It's not rocket science.

Is what Brighton doing now revolutionary? Have we never seen clubs of similar stature sign, develop and sell players, do well for a while and then fizzle out? (Not a prediction, simply stating this isn't...novel)

It isn't even as if United has problems with scouting. We have identified these players multiple times. "b-b-but the problem is that we just identified and didn't sign and develop them" . Well, it clearly takes more to compete at the top of the league, let alone for Europe, and especially if you're going to be building/renovating a stadium whilst doing so. The demands here are different. And for clarification, I'm not arguing against having a better player development pipeline. I'm just confused with the whole Brighton this, Brighton that.

 

[Eckers99]

A model that involves them selling their best players.

I don't think even Brighton's biggest
admirers are saying we should adopt the exact same approach as them, target the very same players, or have the same ambitions. It's more that it would be nice for us to be run as efficiently as they are, because a club with United's resources working as professionally as Brighton would be thereabouts every season. After years of being an absolute shambles it would be a refreshing change of course.

 

[acnumber9]

People spend all day invalidating everything City have done on this board, yet somehow if we were in their shoes, nothing we won would be tainted? It makes no sense.

Well they have literally had to cheat to achieve what they have. We don’t yet know whether United would have to do the same. At the moment there appear to be three options. Nothing changes, Ratcliffe and the Glazers or Qatar. If your goal is to see the debt gone then that only appears to happen with Qatar.

If it goes the Qatar route and they cook the books then obviously we’d be no different than City. If they clear the debt and the team is sustained using money the club generates then what would make us different than any other club?

 

[JagUTD]

Well they have literally had to cheat to achieve what they have. We don’t yet know whether United would have to do the same. At the moment there appear to be three options. Nothing changes, Ratcliffe and the Glazers or Qatar. If your goal is to see the debt gone then that only appears to happen with Qatar.

If it goes the Qatar route and they cook the books then obviously we’d be no different than City. If they clear the debt and the team is sustained using money the club generates then what would make us different than any other club?

Based on the extensive history of such States cheating frequently, usually by means of back hand payments (see City, Qatars WC bid, Saudis effectively fraudulent takeover of Newcastle) I'd probably put a quid on them well, cheating...

But if some fans are happy with that, great. Just don't start complaining of it comes back to bite us or of course, someone out cheats us.

 

[acnumber9]

Based on the extensive history of such States cheating frequently, usually by means of back hand payments (see City, Qatars WC bid, Saudis effectively fraudulent takeover of Newcastle) I'd probably put a quid on them well, cheating...

But if some fans are happy with that, great. Just don't start complaining of it comes back to bite us or of course, someone out cheats us.

It would be the first time that they’ve owned a club that is already established at the top table so who knows. There’s certainly every chance they may but what did the United fans demanding Glazers out expect? Who did they think would buy United and clear the debt? The supposed white knight is being exposed as a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

 

[Smores]

Well they have literally had to cheat to achieve what they have. We don’t yet know whether United would have to do the same. At the moment there appear to be three options. Nothing changes, Ratcliffe and the Glazers or Qatar. If your goal is to see the debt gone then that only appears to happen with Qatar.

If it goes the Qatar route and they cook the books then obviously we’d be no different than City. If they clear the debt and the team is sustained using money the club generates then what would make us different than any other club?

We're not the only club with debt you know, they'd all love for theirs to magically be removed so they could focus on transfer spend instead. That's without getting into the stadium being funded by a sugar daddy for us.

 

[MancunianAngels]

I have epic, dramatic classical music playing in my head when I read the first bit. I'm feeling things fam.

That means a lot. Football is all about emotions isn't it? Good and bad.

 

[acnumber9]

We're not the only club with debt you know, they'd all love for theirs to magically be removed so they could focus on transfer spend instead. That's without getting into the stadium being funded by a sugar daddy for us.

I know, but as I’ve said above, what did we expect would happen if the Glazers left and we wanted the debt cleared? No regular investor was going to stump up the cash, clear the debt and rebuild the stadium.

 

[JagUTD]

It would be the first time that they’ve owned a club that is already established at the top table so who knows. There’s certainly every chance they may but what did the United fans demanding Glazers out expect? Who did they think would buy United and clear the debt? The supposed white knight is being exposed as a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

Knowing that, as yet it's been allowed to happen with near impunity, they'd probably stick to the method that's served them well so far. The old Leopard and it's spots thing.

But as long as people find that acceptable, and I would presume they'd also now hope the Premier League see fit to drop any investigation into City and Newcastle as part of this acceptance then fine.

 

[Giggsyking]

Qatars offer doesn't look great tbh.

World record fee for a sport club does not look good? Are you being serious?

 

[cyberman]

We're not the only club with debt you know, they'd all love for theirs to magically be removed so they could focus on transfer spend instead. That's without getting into the stadium being funded by a sugar daddy for us.

How many clubs have debt that wasn’t spent on the club in any way?
If we had debt due to transfers or stadium upgrades then fair enough, at least that cost is gone and you have something tangible. Ours is debt that was taken from us and we still have to spend the above example on top as well

 

[acnumber9]

Knowing that, as yet it's been allowed to happen with near impunity, they'd probably stick to the method that's served them well so far. The old Leopard and it's spots thing.

But as long as people find that acceptable, and I would presume they'd also now hope the Premier League see fit to drop any investigation into City and Newcastle as part of this acceptance then fine.

Can you answer the question I asked? If you were Glazers out and the reason was so that the debt would be gone, what were you expecting?

 

[MancunianAngels]

Tbh I wanted to stop reading after the birthright and culture part. These statements have no value in football anymore, the likes of Madrid is not the greatest football club in the world becuase of the "birthright" and "culture" of the madridians, it is because the club is a ruthless giant. Of course I agree with the part that doing it organically is much more tasty, but lets be real, that ship has sailed decades ago. If a local fan want to enjoy casual football with no expectations, then Manchester united is not his best option to support. That ship has sailed 7 decades ago when Sir Matt Busby turned united into a European giant.

Why can't it be both? Sir Matt Busby and Jimmy Murphy wanted the club to take on the world but they also wanted it to be a badge of honour for the factory workers of Salford and Manchester.

Busby also hated the greed that was developing in the game in the mid 80s.

https://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/big-ron-sir-matt-left-man-utd-over-robson-deal-4019348

The idea that some have suggested that a Qatari takeover would somehow have been almost a final step in his quest for United is absurd.

 

[Smores]

I know, but as I’ve said above, what did we expect would happen if the Glazers left and we wanted the debt cleared? No regular investor was going to stump up the cash, clear the debt and rebuild the stadium.

Then fans need to accept the situation for what it is, a soulless cash injection by a questionable source. We'll be no better than City and people can scream cheating but the judgement of City being plastic predates the accusations.

When your owner is covering substantial costs the club would otherwise pay then its not 'within our means'. We'll be exactly what we all hated City and Chelsea for being.

 

[NorryKay]

If Qatar or Ineos wins (let's be honest, no other scenario is likely), then the Glazers lose control over the club. How will they be able to keep hindering us?

I get that the glazers lose control in both scenarios but I think Jim’s bid is worryingly silent on so many important things.
1. What happens to the existing debt.
2. Would the club still be servicing the legacy and new debts in any form
3. Is Ratcliffe/INEOS going to pump the required
capital for infrastructure development?
4. Would we ever catch City under Ratcliffe/Glazers ownership?

 

[Spark]

With £1b we have built a team that operates at Champions League level. If we had Brighton’s budget, we wouldn’t. We have better and as a result do better. We don’t spend much more than Brighton and still finish below them. We are supposed to be better - and are!

You're saying that we've shrewdly invested £1bn on the squad? The very squad that is crying out for a rebuild every single season? Once again, nobody has advocated - as far as I can see - that we should be operating identically to Brighton. We're a different beast. But we haven't had a clear plan for 10 years that much is obvious, beyond signing dog shit players for extortionate prices for multiple different reasons. Last year's transfers were a step change from how we were behaving previously, so hopefully we have finally learned but it remains to be seen.

Taking your last bit of logic that "we are supposed to be better - and are!". We are, but only just. And that's with the gulf in finances. So obviously something is being done wrong at United and very right at Brighton for them to have closed the gap to 11 points in the table with a game in hand and meet us in the semi of the FA cup not being the underdogs.

Or is just shows that money is very important?

Money on its own won't get you anywhere. Forest and Chelsea this year are prime examples and I'd argue United for the last 10.

My point about Brighton isn't anything to do with how much they've spent, it's how they've spent it and where they've spent it - both on the team and on facilities. It clearly shows having a solid vision and strategy is more important than simply being a spoilt kid in a sweet shop ala Ed Woodward. City are a better example than Brighton, proving that it does scale to £1bn - with all their cheating they still knew where to spend the money, who to buy and what the to invest in off the pitch to grow the club to what it is right now.

 

[acnumber9]

Then fans need to accept the situation for what it is, a soulless cash injection by a questionable source. We'll be no better than City and people can scream cheating but the judgement of City being plastic predates the accusations.

When your owner is covering substantial costs the club would otherwise pay then its not 'within our means'. We'll be exactly what we all hated City and Chelsea for being.

Some will and some won’t. That’s the nature of football fans. To my knowledge many don’t care about the investment in the infrastructure, it’s the fake sponsors and investment on the playing side that has only been achieved by falsifying their accounts. Would United have to do that? They shouldn’t have to.

Nobody seems to want to answer the question about what they thought would happen if the Glazers sold up.

 

[Telsim]

Qatars offer doesn't look great tbh.

Indeed. And it's coming from their mouthpiece, so it's most likely true. They'd need to do a lot better to beat Ratcliffe. But Qatar know their stuff and know overpaying now can have ramifications for other deals in the future. This seems closer to a resignation offer.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Then fans need to accept the situation for what it is, a soulless cash injection by a questionable source.

Maybe just me but I'd accept it as the cosmos balancing itself after glazers bled us dry for nearly 2 decades

 

[Rightnr]

It's a good deal. They’d be insane to turn it down. But then again, they could actually be mentally unstable.

Would a sane person have that ponytail Avram sports? There's your answer.

 

[Woziak]

The only thing remotely relevant to the sale is the £3.45bn figure that the Glazers would pocket.

The rest is meaningless to the process, nice for the fans but ultimately meaningless to those who will make the call.

So no, I don't see how it's a great offer.

You don’t see offering twice the market share a great offer, the only reason the shares peaked at $27 was the market got excited about Qatar who had the money being thought to be a dead cert to buy the club in a financial shoot out. SJ and Qatar was courted all through the World cup with the Glazers overplaying their hand and disregarding the club debt and the recent financial performances with yo yo champions league participation. If this was Sir Alex Ferguson team of 2009-13 teleported In time to 2023 with a smaller debt of £250m they may have received a bid for £6.5/8bn.

Let’s assume just for a second, the Glazers say no to all bids and carry on as they are now with an agreement from a VC to lend them just £1bn to refurbish the Stadium to 88,000, invest in Carrington and the squad.

They try and appease the fan base by using the credit card line and spend £200m on new players after selling £100m of players.

Their record of managing Englands premier football club is to spend money get CL, then don’t spend money, manager fails in EL then sack the manager, get a new manager , take dividends, cycle continues,

Until eventually it Doesn’t and the club starts to default on payments then all of a sudden your share value plummets, VC sharks come in and offer you $5 per share just to settle your debts so you can keep some form of vanity control. All of sudden that offer on the 28th April looks like an incredible offer, a world record offer for a sports club.

 

[JagUTD]

That means a lot. Football is all about emotions isn't it? Good and bad.

I don't see why anyone took offence anyway. The way I see it, if something as drastic as the club plunging down the divisions happened some day in the future, the fans you can absolutely guarantee sticking by the club, are those that you describe.