This is where a lot of the confusion is, and it has never been made perfectly clear. I’m not sure if the bids are based on the EV of the club. The only shares being put up for sale, right now, are the Glazer’s 69%. So one interpretation is that the 5bn plus bid from Qatar is just for those shares - they have said they want to buy the rest ultimately, presumably via the stock market.
Club Sale | It’s done!
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Clueless? My opinion is based on careful research and quality sources. I didn’t know much about this so I’ve looked into it and educated myself.
For example did you know Qatar only got independence from Britain in the early 70’s? So in one way Jassim buying the club is just bringing it home.
I appreciate that a lot of my posts in this thread seem heavily pro INEOS, but in reality I just want to balance the debate when it is heavily skewed towards the Qatar bid, for what I feel are the wrong reasons. I find all the twerking and euphoria for oil money distasteful and all the personal name calling of Sir Jim puerile and unnecessary.
Obviously, I would be totally opposed to any bid that doesn’t result in a change of ownership, and I don’t want vulture capitalists anywhere near the club.
The ideal is clearly a full sale of the club, but if that doesn’t happen I am pragmatic enough to consider alternatives, even if that involves J&A still owning shares.
But hey, that’s just my opinion and any conflicting opinion held by others is just as valid. It is for people to decide their own position on things and act accordingly.
The thing that saddens me most is that even if most fans are incandescent with rage if the Glazers stay, no one will do anything apart from spout off on internet forums all summer, then meekly turn up to fill the stadium next season. I wish it was not so, but I fear it will be.
… says bloke spouting off on internet
As you might know I am Maltese. Its an island were it has deep roots to both Italy (for obvious reasons) and England (former colony and all) were we inherited our love for football. As you can presume colonialism suck so prior to WW2 there was a big push by the nationalist party (our Tory party) to push for a reunification with Italy. The British noticed that and they pushed back by promoting a mix of Anglophile and nationalism sentiment as opposition to the Italianita. That transcended into football with those with deep historical routes to the labour party tend to support British clubs while those who support the nationalists tend to support Italian clubs. For people of my generation we tend to watch both leagues and back in the 80s Juventus and Milan were as much of rivals for us as Liverpool are. This is slowly ending but its still alive and kicking when the national team is concerned. Italy vs England is at par if not more then to Scotland vs England in the UK.
My grandfather was a hard core labourite. His family business had close contact with the British and he joined the army during WW2 (he was one of the best AA gunners in Malta). He probably got influenced into supporting Manchester United prior or during WW2 but I don't know for sure as he rarely spoke of his experiences at the time. My biggest influence though was my older cousin. He is an avid United supporter. We would watch movies and games together. Both fell in love with early SAF's ruthlessness with his obsession to perfection during the 'no one is bigger then the club' stance. Actually my cousin is a far more devilish then I am if you know what I mean and much to most redcafe's horror (don't worry I won't bring him here)
Back in the day AC Milan was by far the best team in the world. They did almost everything we did but better (academy, transfers etc). However it would be hypocritical to say that glory didn't contributed to fuel my love towards to United. It helped me make new friends and to be proud of something at a time when I was in a very dark place. Finally there's the memories at the supporters club were we were lucky to meet so many players throughout the years mostly thanks to SAF. Maybe I was lucky but I've yet to meet a United player who wasn't absolutely nice with the fans. From other people's experience (ie Liverpool and Juventus fans) I can assure you that its a rare thing.
Would I still be a United fan if we aren't successful anymore? The answer is yes. Will I be able to transmit this passion to the next generation? I doubt it. My daughter see me frustrated during games and the horrible mood that follows a defeat. Throughout the past years we had so little reason to celebrate and things will probably get worse if SJR is allowed to turn Manchester United into the next Nice/Lausanne. So I can't really blame her if she decide not to be associated to that.
People who want SJR are comfortable with us finishing 8th to be fair.
Did you not witness the absolute meltdown when we finished 6th last year?!United were lucky to develop the 2nd (or 3rd) best batch of youth talent which meant that we had a core of WC players for free. However there was barely any player locally we wanted that we wouldn't get which meant that others were forced to buy the 2nd-3rd option
Qatar made PSG. Most of their league titles were won under their management. The CL eludes them however that's a mean cup to win. SAF's won just 2 CLs which sound underwhelming until you notice that its the total amount of CLs won by all London clubs combined. Milan last won it in the mid 2000s while Juventus has last won it in 96. I find it ironic that the pro INEOS fans tend to ridicule the French league especially considering that NICE play there and are tanking big time in it.
8th with 2 or 3 games in hand on the teams around around them and a starting 11 that cost the club a whopping £52m. Weird indeed.
Qatars offer doesn't look great tbh.
SAF was massively hampered by the foreigners rule for european matches in the 90s which included welsh and scottish players.
PSG.
Far better run than Utd and most PL clubs have been the last 10 years.
Not a good year for them but they're usually one of the favorites to win the CL and have constructed a few high level teams. And that was all achieved despite the severe handicap of being in Ligue 1.
I have little doubt that PSG would be a machine if they had been in a more competitive league like the PL or La Liga.
Starting to feel a bit like they are resigned to failure.
Yeah the Glazers are continuing to feck the club over. Or at least 2 of them.
Not sure where you get that from.
Yes his father ran a company making furniture, mainly for laboratory.
But he quickly branched out into the chemical industry and founded Inios.
Anyway. He is a very successful business man running that company which has a turnover of many tens of billions of pounds.
No this is pretty clear now, Market cap currently is $3.27bn(69% of those shares would be $2.25bn) however these shares are more valuable has they have 10* voting shares. To take control of man united in its current structure you need to buy these controlling shares first and then offer the same value to the existing share holders. This would mean that SH under his 92 foundation has offered twice the market cap for control and then to buy the club out 100%. Assuming the bid is probably £5.1-5.3bn let’s say £5.2bn is the actual bid placed for the whole club minus the debt cost which would be paid on completion is $6.53bn. This is almost exactly twice the market cap right now with shares at $20.05 and falling.
That might be the Qatar power play, the shares only rose to a record $27 when the market were convinced Qatar was buying the club, now that there is doubt the market cap has gone down,. The Qataris will tell them they are offering twice the market cap and this their final offer because of the debt of the club. All six Glazers combined would get twice market value to the sum of $4.4/4.5bn, they may negotiate slightly more because of the voting power of the shares so there may be a slight increase or decrease later on. All the other shareholders will receive a huge windfall of nearly $40 per share after sale is agreed with Glazers.
If I was a betting man this gets done and will be reported as a full sale at £5.2bn plus the £635m debt so final sale value of
£5.7-5.8bn or $7.3bn world record takeover for a sports club.
"We tried our best, but they didn't want to sell".
A leopard cannot change its spots. Their only interest is for themselves.
I fear sarcasm may be lost on you…
Thanks for this, didn't know you were Maltese. You're absolutely correct that Fergie understood the importance of community and connection to the fans which was a huge contribution to the identity of the club. This is why I find it so hard to understand anyone wanting to discard those values in exchange for a better chance of some silverware.
Excessive use of smilies
I'd say it's a show of confidence from the Qataris that they're sure the Glazers want to sell and thus don't feel the need to overpay.
The Qataris not paying £6bn is their own choice, not because they're a little short on cash this month.
Sir Alex came to United in 1986 and we won the first league title in 1992-1993 season. The Bosman ruling was introduced just 3 years later
Do you never quit?!
PSG are a circus!
I fear sarcasm may be lost on you…
That is because it was not sarcasm. What was stated was factually incorrect and I was simply correcting an incorrect post.
Sarcasm is completely different.
… Rrrrriiiiggghhhht.It's a phenomenal offer, it not only gives the Glazers a ridiculous profit, but also promises to sort out all the mess they will be leaving behind.
I can't see what more they can do.
Funniest post I've seen
Next-level delusion
You can make an argument that they haven't even done the bare minimum in 12 years when you take into consideration that they have more money at their disposal than every other team in Ligue 1 combined.
I can assure you it was. The famous Qatari council estates were the biggest giveaway
I fear sarcasm may be lost on you…
But I was talking about Jim Ratcliffe..
It was only for two seasons in fairness, and while we likely would have done better it’s still tough to see us beating Capello’s Milan in 94 and LVG’s Ajax in 95.
The simple truth in football is that the biggest factor towards a club's sustained success is their wealth.
People who are against a Qatari takeover would do better to simply steer clear of that argument; the only points they can draw on to contradict this are extremely weak thus only undermine their overall stance.
Where is the pessimism coming from now? Genuine question, I’ve missed the bad news.
If Qatar or Ineos wins (let's be honest, no other scenario is likely), then the Glazers lose control over the club. How will they be able to keep hindering us?
SAF was amazing with overseas fans especially towards us Maltese. However he was simply following Sir Matt Busby's footsteps. Sir Matt Busby was the true revolutionary on this. Here is some history from our supporters club who is the oldest overseas Manchester United supporters club in the world.
https://www.manutd-malta.com/the-clubs-foundation/
Sir Matt was very outward looking and way ahead to his time in a local football society that was among the most conservative in the world. England only participated in the WC in 1950 and it refused to allow English clubs to play in the European cup (ie the precursor of the CL). United paid a heavy price for its defiance as the FA refused to move games to accommodate European cup games. That inflexibility lead to the Munich tragedy. So being outward looking rather isolationist is deeply rooted in our DNA. The heavy price we paid for it is the reason why we're one of the most supported clubs in the world. Its also why the FA hates us. If United and Liverpool decided to show the middle finger to the FA and play in the super league then barely anyone would bother switching on the telly to watch the EPL anymore.
Regarding your comment. United remained United despite being owned by a peeping tom, having a CEO who betrayed us for Chelsea, the PLC era and the Glazers. It won't change irrespective who own us. What will change is how effective it will be in winning trophies and bring back the glory days.
He might be in for a shock. If he takes over and we can't compete financially still, plus most likely need to help finance his debt, then our Titan status will dwindle further and in time it'll be forgotten with future fans following the current biggest clubs which will reduce revenue too. We could end up a true fallen giant and he could end up very much in the red.
Just following on the theme of the thread to be honest. It seems as though the vibe is Qatar's bid isn't good enough and more of a tried their best but Jim bending over for the Glazers may have won his side.
INEOS PR machine in full flow.
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