Club Sale | It’s done!

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I just can’t see them accepting the Qatar bid. Their greed knows no bounds, as we well know by now.
If they’re greedy why would they accept a lower bid?
They’re not young men, this nonsense about waiting 10/15 years to somehow double the value when they can’t even get the 6b value met now is ridiculous. They aren’t turning down 1b each to get 1.5 billion when they’re touching 80 years old.
 
I honestly believe the only way forward as it stands is the Qatari bid, even though there are controversies around that, for reasons I won't repeat here. What it brings, that none others so far has achieved, is the end of the £500+m debt and the hundreds of millions that have been spent servicing that in interest payments. Plus there is a plan to invest in the team, stadium, training ground and the infrastructure in the area. It is an irresistible carrot for diehard fans like myself. For those who believe that the Glazers have been horrible for the club, this appears the way forward.

The Ratcliffe bid which gives the Glazers a 40% minority stake is, however, less palatable. The Ineos chief hasn't the financial chops to really take us to the top again, as seen by his tenure at Nice. And it means the Glazers remain.

Having said all that, for all the Glazers have been ostracised by a sizeable chunk of the United support, you have to admire their business brain. Yes. They buy the club for £790m in 2005 only use £270m of their own money - with the rest becoming debt loaded on the club. And they stand to get back £5bn if they accept the Qatari's buyout. FIVE BILLION. Now say what you like about the Glazers, but that is some return. They aren't daft.

Having said that, the club has suffered. During the 2020-21 campaign alone, United paid £20.5m in debt interest. In the first nine months of 2021/22 we paid £18m in interest. All so the Glazers can have the club.

Quite how that was allowed to happen, is a totally different story.
 
Which club in the PL is actually not a plaything of a rich fellow? Nearly all clubs are owned by billionaire businessmen and in the next 10 years I would expect Middle Eastern oil money to own the majority of all big clubs. There is no more "right way" left because of the revenues and money involved. Also I don't understand how anyone can stand the Glazers still being associated with this club after all they've done to it. Is that the legacy you want to pass on to future generations of Utd supporters?
Brighton are doing things the right way, with a miniscule budget, in comparison to ours. We can 100% operate as a top club by being a well run and successful business. I don't like the Glazers at all, but having an unlimited budget due to being owned by a mega rich country is a load of shite, I have zero interest in it.
 
I just can’t see them accepting the Qatar bid. Their greed knows no bounds, as we well know by now.
:wenger:

It's because they're greedy that they will sell for a ridiculous amount of money, net straight into their bank accounts.
 
I understand the moral concerns about state ownership. But if other state owned clubs have shown anything it's that these guys want to win if only for their prestige. We could do with that kind of single mindedness the state the entire club is in.

Well you've highlighted the problem, some of us don't want to win because of the owners. Just like City it'll be hollow.

I'd rather win a trophy less often but it be a genuine achievement. We can currently spend enough to challenge without being a state plaything but some would rather sell our soul to dominate instead.
 
Brighton are doing things the right way, with a miniscule budget, in comparison to ours. We can 100% operate as a top club by being a well run and successful business. I don't like the Glazers at all, but having an unlimited budget due to being owned by a mega rich country is a load of shite, I have zero interest in it.

Brighton will never be PL or CL contenders without mega rich owners though. They will always be a feeder club to the bigger clubs due to their financial situation.
 
Brighton are doing things the right way, with a miniscule budget, in comparison to ours. We can 100% operate as a top club by being a well run and successful business. I don't like the Glazers at all, but having an unlimited budget due to being owned by a mega rich country is a load of shite, I have zero interest in it.
You are only looking at the here and now. Our budget isn't gonna be amongst the top budgets in the country in the next 5-6 years because organic growth is going to be supplanted by owner investment. Ironically we probably will end up like Brighton then. Finishing 6-7th every year with no prospects of realistically growing beyond that.
 
Brighton are doing things the right way, with a miniscule budget, in comparison to ours. We can 100% operate as a top club by being a well run and successful business. I don't like the Glazers at all, but having an unlimited budget due to being owned by a mega rich country is a load of shite, I have zero interest in it.
Brighton do great for a club of their size. Will they ever win anything? Probably not. Will they expect to? Probably not. We are a global club. The expectations of this club are on a different scale. The whole club needs upgrading to that status. Is there a billionaire out there who isn't a scumbag on some scale? No. The big problem is someone who is just happy to lumber us with debt and make sure they take their cut which hampers the club. It is a quandry all round. If it ends up SJR then I will expect him to be at every home and away game, home and abroad and show his face on the tour as well, which will be something he hasn't done in years. Other clubs have owners or board member who are not popular but they still turn up to games. Ours have been cowards.
 
Brighton are doing things the right way, with a miniscule budget, in comparison to ours. We can 100% operate as a top club by being a well run and successful business. I don't like the Glazers at all, but having an unlimited budget due to being owned by a mega rich country is a load of shite, I have zero interest in it.
Brighton got to where they are today by outspending their opposition and for most of the time not spending it well.
Your post shows how this works and actually goes against your point you’re making
 
I don't see how this disproves my point, infact it absolutely strenghtens it. Pre Abromovich we were the 2nd top spenders, we had a great manager so our spending was done well and we won a lot of trophies, we need to spend money to win, that is as true today as it was in the 90's. We just aren't spending it well.

You said

The brilliant teams were built on back of ability to spend big money most other teams couldn't match.

Which implies our success was build on money, which it wasn't.

When Busby joined the club we weren't able to outspend other clubs, the stadium was in ruins from being bombed out in the second world war and we had to pay City to play at Maine Road until 1949. Busby's success was based on his own genius and idea to develop their own players in the club rather than buy in. He did spend money when he needed to, but his success was in no way built on that.

When Sir Alex joined the club in 86 he did spend money, initially without much success, but his first great side contained Giggs, Hughes and Sharpe (OK signed from Torquay but as a youngster), and every subsequent great side was built on a core of players developed by the clubs academy.

We have always spent the money the club has generated from it's own success, but we've never spent the most and our success has never been built on it.
 
Well you've highlighted the problem, some of us don't want to win because of the owners. Just like City it'll be hollow.

I'd rather win a trophy less often but it be a genuine achievement. We can currently spend enough to challenge without being a state plaything but some would rather sell our soul to dominate instead.
How will we be winning only because of the owners when there are already 2-3 equally rich owners with probably more to follow?

There will be no domination just because of Qatar. What there will be is a level playing field for us to compete in the long run.
 
How will we be winning only because of the owners when there are already 2-3 equally rich owners with probably more to follow?

There will be no domination just because of Qatar. What there will be is a level playing field for us to compete in the long run.
There are 20 clubs in the PL, not 3.
 
You said



Which implies our success was build on money, which it wasn't.

When Busby joined the club we weren't able to outspend other clubs, the stadium was in ruins from being bombed out in the second world war and we had to pay City to play at Maine Road until 1949. Busby's success was based on his own genius and idea to develop their own players in the club rather than buy in. He did spend money when he needed to, but his success was in no way built on that.

When Sir Alex joined the club in 86 he did spend money, initially without much success, but his first great side contained Giggs, Hughes and Sharpe (OK signed from Torquay but as a youngster), and every subsequent great side was built on a core of players developed by the clubs academy.

We have always spent the money the club has generated from it's own success, but we've never spent the most and our success has never been built on it.
You are right about the academy, but in this day and age you need to provide the best facilities, a lot of clubs have upgraded their training facilities. You need a great scouting network, which does actually cost money and you need to sign the best of the bunch, which also cost money, either legitimately or not. You also need the best coaching staff out there for these kids. The best kids have a lot of choices nowadays on where they can chose to play with a lot of outside influences.
 
What happened to all the Jim Ratcliffe fans who insisted he was just a local lad who loved the club and wanted to save us all?

If the whole buying Chelsea fiasco wasn't proof enough that this is strictly a business investment for him, then offering the Glazers a chance to stay surely seals the deal. It goes against everything his people have fed United fans for the last few months.

The guy isn't stupid, he hasn't got to where he is by following his heart. He knows Man United is a titan when it comes to sports franchises and if he can just get his grubby hands on it now, by whatever means necessary, he can reap the rewards later.
 
@Pexbo @Berbaclass - I thought 5bn for just the Glazers shares was a lot! The Athletic also reported this, which was the info I was working with!


Conflicting reports again. But I don't trust that face so I hope the other reports are true. The offer this Jacobs guy is reporting might get rejected which will eventually lead to the rats staying.

Also: wouldn't this be the same as Qatari's last offer?
 
Problem I have is I am not happy with any of the options at all. Qatar is not ideal, I am not taken in by SJR and his local boy done good, god help us if the Glazer are still around with him or decide not to sell at all. The other options of outside finance coming in is scary as well. Where is that billionaire, not connected to a state who will just buy us, invest and clear the debt.
 
The problem is there are only a few here that invest in reading most of the thread. You know who you are!

Those who bring up the same tired topics are those who only read the latest two pages.

Then think what popped into their head is some new topic that has not been discussed the previous 1100 pages like some biblical revelation. And then go on to pontificate on it like he was John the feckin Baptist
I know right!

It happens a lot, frustrates me when I see the same tweet/info shared on a new page when it was literally shared 1 or 2 pages back!
 
Well you've highlighted the problem, some of us don't want to win because of the owners. Just like City it'll be hollow.

I'd rather win a trophy less often but it be a genuine achievement. We can currently spend enough to challenge without being a state plaything but some would rather sell our soul to dominate instead.

From reading what the qatar team have proposed, I am unsure where anyone gets the idea they plan to just spend like city.

They have earmarked investment for the stadium and surrounding area, but they seem to be wanting the club to be self sustaining. Which it can be without debt.
 

Makes perfect sense. 5B+ for just 69% of the club essentially puts club’s value at around 8B, twice the amount of the highest ever club sale (and 3 times as much as Chelsea).

5-5.5B is already massively inflated, but much fairer than 8B.
 
From reading what the qatar team have proposed, I am unsure where anyone gets the idea they plan to just spend like city.

They have earmarked investment for the stadium and surrounding area, but they seem to be wanting the club to be self sustaining. Which it can be without debt.
Yeah the club can be self sustaining, it is the debt that is holding us back and wasted money from past employees of the club. We need someone coming in whos want the most success but through sensible sources, who will not baulk at getting rid of players. We don't want ditherers.
 
Yeah the club can be self sustaining, it is the debt that is holding us back and wasted money from past employees of the club. We need someone coming in who want the most success but through sensible sources, who will not baulk at getting rid of players. We don't want ditherers.

Definietly. The idea of a debt free club operating by spending what it earns is great in theory, but it needs the right people in charge.

If woodward and ole were spending the money, it would fail. I think with ETH, we have the right people in place, and if qatar just give him access to the money the club makes without debt, we will be competitive.

I'd say that the investment in the ground and training facilities will prove just as important as signing a striker in 5 years time.
 
Problem I have is I am not happy with any of the options at all. Qatar is not ideal, I am not taken in by SJR and his local boy done good, god help us if the Glazer are still around with him or decide not to sell at all. The other options of outside finance coming in is scary as well. Where is that billionaire, not connected to a state who will just buy us, invest and clear the debt.
Don't think they exist. Billionaires seldom get into a business like this for their love and sentimental appreciation of the game. Football isn't the necessarily the best investment for the ultra-rich, at least not for a club like ours.
 
Yeah the club can be self sustaining, it is the debt that is holding us back and wasted money from past employees of the club. We need someone coming in whos want the most success but through sensible sources, who will not baulk at getting rid of players. We don't want ditherers.
I've been informed that despite our success off the field, we would be unable to keep the squad competitive while rebuilding/renovating the stadium. So we need significant investment, even with zero debt. We could, of course, have the debt repaid and take on new debt, but what's the point in that?
 
Conflicting reports again. But I don't trust that face so I hope the other reports are true. The offer this Jacobs guy is reporting might get rejected which will eventually lead to the rats staying.

Also: wouldn't this be the same as Qatari's last offer?
Finally confirmed that £5-5.1bn bid is for the total sale of the club makes total sense market cap is currently $3.27bn with $20.05 per share and falling. For the record 69% of this is $4.4bn twice the market value for their controlling shares. More than a fair price for six entitled goblins who inherited Daddy’s leveraged. Buy out of the world’s most famous football club, oops I meant soccer club. If this goes through it will be reported at £5.75bn because of £635m debt which will also be paid as part of the transaction. That is a world record $7.3bn, The Raine group should be telling them if the club had zero debt, they may well of got £6bn but this is a fair price in the current market.

If SJ RAT wins with the Goblins staying he is buying 51% so all of Darcy, Kevin, Edward and Bryan’s shares and then 6% of Avram’s and Joel’s shares. The club will be put further into debt, with the caveat that I hope to be proved wrong!
 
I've been informed that despite our success off the field, we would be unable to keep the squad competitive while rebuilding/renovating the stadium. So we need significant investment, even with zero debt. We could, of course, have the debt repaid and take on new debt, but what's the point in that?
Absolutely none, unless the owner can repay it without impacting the running of the club, which isn't happening atm. The infrastructure definitely needs sorting, the more clubs who upgrade their stadiums and training facilities it will eventually become a selling point to prospective signings. Winning and a great manager also helps.
 
Well you've highlighted the problem, some of us don't want to win because of the owners. Just like City it'll be hollow.

I'd rather win a trophy less often but it be a genuine achievement. We can currently spend enough to challenge without being a state plaything but some would rather sell our soul to dominate instead.
If you removed the Glazers entirely & the debt then yes the club is ‘able’ to run itself but that ship has sailed somewhat.

Say no to Qatar then Jim comes in, the Glazers stay with whatever percentage & you think they won’t want ‘a return’? Or better yet, they reject both bids to refinance the club & run up more bills.

The idea that United will self sustain is fanciful as it really isn’t an option. Qatar will spend above & beyond, Ratcliffe is open to keeping the Glazers which should cancel him out entirely or the Glazers stay on a new credit card & continue to leech.

The options are not Qatar or self sufficiency, that’s a bad faith argument. I’m trying to stay out of this discussion but this narrative that the club being self sufficient is an option isn’t really a true one. If not Qatar, it’s Ratcliffe or the Glazers - that’s it.
 
Brighton are doing things the right way, with a miniscule budget, in comparison to ours. We can 100% operate as a top club by being a well run and successful business. I don't like the Glazers at all, but having an unlimited budget due to being owned by a mega rich country is a load of shite, I have zero interest in it.

This Brighton love in is starting to grate. They make all the smart signings, they get the best value etc. The fact is, if we’d built Brighton’s team and not Manchester United’s we’d be 8th in the league. We sign better players than Brighton, and as a result, consistently perform better than Brighton.
 
Absolutely none, unless the owner can repay it without impacting the running of the club, which isn't happening atm. The infrastructure definitely needs sorting, the more clubs who upgrade their stadiums and training facilities it will eventually become a selling point to prospective signings. Winning and a great manager also helps.
Exactly. My sources about us being unable to finance all that is needed is based on responses in this thread by knowledgeable posters, not clueless buddies like @Plant0x84. I love that guy, but I wouldn't bank his opinion under the neurological pathway that leads to "knowledgeable".
 
I understand the moral concerns about state ownership. But if other state owned clubs have shown anything it's that these guys want to win if only for their prestige. We could do with that kind of single mindedness the state the entire club is in.
Yes, its just their competitiveness, not a foreign policy tool of soft power and sportswashing. Let's be realistic here, otherwise we just let them succeed in that.

And absolutely Ineos want the club for greenwashing purposes.

I call on everyone to continue to talk about and call out the environmental and/or human rights abuses of whoever the new owners are. You can want Qatar and still call them out for their abuses. You can want SJR and still call on him to end his environmental abuses.

Twerking for them while remaining silent about their problems, only serves theor aims to cover up those problems.
 
Conflicting reports again. But I don't trust that face so I hope the other reports are true. The offer this Jacobs guy is reporting might get rejected which will eventually lead to the rats staying.

Also: wouldn't this be the same as Qatari's last offer?
Wasn’t the last offer 5 and this offer is just over (I’ve seen 5.2 suggested)
Think the figures in the tweet are just as an example.
 
Brighton are doing things the right way, with a miniscule budget, in comparison to ours. We can 100% operate as a top club by being a well run and successful business. I don't like the Glazers at all, but having an unlimited budget due to being owned by a mega rich country is a load of shite, I have zero interest in it.
Comparing apples to oranges.

Man Utd is in different class and has different goals.
 
This Brighton love in is starting to grate. They make all the smart signings, they get the best value etc. The fact is, if we’d built Brighton’s team and not Manchester United’s we’d be 8th in the league. We sign better players than Brighton, and as a result, consistently perform better than Brighton.
With no disrespect to Brighton there are always some Clubs who do well for period of time relative to their resources and get lauded for their structure and how well they are being run but it can all unravel pretty quickly as well

You have two clubs Southampton and Leicester on verge of going down who not in so distant past were similarly lauded heck one of them actually won the league and Fa cup look at their plight now .
 
This Brighton love in is starting to grate. They make all the smart signings, they get the best value etc. The fact is, if we’d built Brighton’s team and not Manchester United’s we’d be 8th in the league. We sign better players than Brighton, and as a result, consistently perform better than Brighton.
....& they have bought A LOT of duds too.
 
Problem I have is I am not happy with any of the options at all. Qatar is not ideal, I am not taken in by SJR and his local boy done good, god help us if the Glazer are still around with him or decide not to sell at all. The other options of outside finance coming in is scary as well. Where is that billionaire, not connected to a state who will just buy us, invest and clear the debt.

Given the price of the club put on by the Glazers. The only choices are state ownership or be laden with debt. So you have to be practical. The amount of billionaires in the world that would fit your description are few and have no interest in our club.
 
Brighton are doing things the right way, with a miniscule budget, in comparison to ours. We can 100% operate as a top club by being a well run and successful business. I don't like the Glazers at all, but having an unlimited budget due to being owned by a mega rich country is a load of shite, I have zero interest in it.
Weird to bring a team currently sitting 8th on the table as an example here.
 
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