Club ownership | Senior management team talk

1. Ineos Team promised to implement a style of play but instead being lead by the manager and follow his style of play. Is this how best in class operates?

2. Spent eternity interviewed various managers to end up begging the current manager to stay during his holidays. This is unprecedented for such a giant of a club. The leaks to media and the whole process was shameful.

3. Keep a manager who finished 8th with no proper effective style of play where he make all the teams we played against look like prime Barcelona. Players can just run through our entire defence and we faced unprecedented shots against us.

4. The signings are starting to look no better than under Woodward and Murtough. Really hope I am very wrong on this.

5. Still keeping the manager now even though there is zero improvement or infact got worse from last year catastrophic season.

6. Throwing away another season instead of correcting their mistakes proactively as best in class people. We are being outplayed by Brighton, Crystal Palace and got totally dominated by Spurs.

Ineos Team have done a lot of good such as upgrade Carrington, plan for new stadium, setting up football structure, provide funds and whatnot. But they really need to do much better and in soonest time for the core business which is football.
 
Give it time lads. We've been through this enough times the past decade. He's a dead man walking.

Trust the process. Heh.
 
Funny thing is, now it can't even be leaked that glazers are delaying/complicating things :smirk:
 
Plant0x84 said:
Fair, although they have certainly backed him decisively since with the backroom reshuffle and all the hires there, and also with the TM and all the squad building they did this summer. I can certainly agree it’s time for Erik to swim
Or sink and get washed away. Not looking great right now and I don’t see that changing vs Porto or Villa. Infact I expect it to get much worse.
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The thing with giving managers two game ultimatums is that what if he wins the next two, implausible as it might sound but not entirely impossible, and then proceeds to maintain his form over the last 20 odd games? ETH has shown that, when under pressure, he can galvanize a squad and get a result but he will revert to type as soon as he feels safe and start losing badly.
 
AneRu said:
The thing with giving managers two game ultimatums is that what if he wins the next two, implausible as it might sound but not entirely impossible, and then proceeds to maintain his form over the last 20 odd games? ETH has shown that, when under pressure, he can galvanize a squad and get a result but he will revert to type as soon as he feels safe and start losing badly.
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Then you just give him two more games to save his job. We seem to be content to be good in 1 out of 7-8 games so why shouldn’t we just continue to give managers those final few games to save themselves from sacking.

And even if we lose both, what’s actually stopping us from giving him two weeks over international break to sort things out and come back stronger against Brentford, to save his job?
 
Fortitude said:
I've felt they've done a number of questionable things that should raise eyebrows, but prolonging ETH's stay of execution is the absolute worst and should give cause for doubt, as no giant of the footballing world conducts themselves in this manner. It doesn't matter where they're coming from or what they've done in the past - we know clubs far more successful than ours would not be conducting themselves like this and INEOS are being derided for their actions across the board. These are not the actions of a competent setup; where is the mapped out contingency? Plan of execution? Everything should be set up and ready to roll as and when it's time for that course of action to take place. Sending out bizarre PR junkets that make no sense worsens their position and makes them look like an organisation that isn't organised.

Time should be on their side given they've just got here, but they are drawing extremely negative attention to themselves with how they're going about things - I wouldn't even be in this thread or commenting on them, but for scratching my head wondering what they are playing at to the point I have concerns to voice. They are not leaving a good impression, in the slightest.
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This is spot on.

It's a massive failing on their part - which isn't great considering they've been in less then a year.
 
I said this before in previous threads - I just dont understand how they have all come to the same conclusion. I mean they sat down with ETH and they listened to his strategy and philosophy. They must have asked things like 'WTF is going on with that midfield?' and 'Why the fk can we score goals.' and 'Why can't we play out from the back properly?' etc Then they all came away thinking yeah this sound like our future. What do they see that a) no one else can see and b) we just cant seem to implement.

People laughed when Eric said we are all on the same boat and all agreed on a process etc at his last interview. But he's right. Everyone bought into this. Even Ruud and Hake. Even the players must know this is what we are going to do. Yet no one in the entire club said a) this is a stupid plan or b) ok I see what you want to do but it hasnt worked for 2 years and I cant see it working in the future.

This is why I was on board with keeping ETH. I thought. Well these new top of the class football people must know what they are doing and whatever ETH is doing must be a good strategy. But no. It looks as fkn weird as always. Maybe it will just click and we will all look like fools. I fkn hope so. But I'm not holding my breath
 
Escobar said:
To keep him in summer was an ok decision at the time and I can see why they did it. However, now is time to be ruthless. Another 3-0 loss at OT is the final nail
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Nah, plenty of people thought it was a shite decision back then, and it’s only been proven to be worse now. Some of those who didn’t want him sacked in the summer are now calling for it but are still defending the decision to keep him, just because they don’t want to admit they were wrong.
 
Fortitude said:
Like I said, I've kept completely out of it and not said a word because people can believe in whatever they want, plus they may actually be right and INEOS are this saviour figure that can be believed in, but what I didn't and don't understand is backing them so absolutely, before they've done anything or we've gotten a chance to see with our own eyes what they're about.

I also feel like as a fanbase, haven't people been burned enough to learn not to put all eggs in one basket before someone or some entity proves their worth?

I've felt they've done a number of questionable things that should raise eyebrows, but prolonging ETH's stay of execution is the absolute worst and should give cause for doubt, as no giant of the footballing world conducts themselves in this manner. It doesn't matter where they're coming from or what they've done in the past - we know clubs far more successful than ours would not be conducting themselves like this and INEOS are being derided for their actions across the board. These are not the actions of a competent setup; where is the mapped out contingency? Plan of execution? Everything should be set up and ready to roll as and when it's time for that course of action to take place. Sending out bizarre PR junkets that make no sense worsens their position and makes them look like an organisation that isn't organised.

Time should be on their side given they've just got here, but they are drawing extremely negative attention to themselves with how they're going about things - I wouldn't even be in this thread or commenting on them, but for scratching my head wondering what they are playing at to the point I have concerns to voice. They are not leaving a good impression, in the slightest.
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Well said. They've got the floor and they are presently soiling themselves. I'm trying to figure out how it's any different from the indecisive, incompetence of the Glazer setup.
 
I think whoever can ultimately move Man Utd as a brand away from football, and towards a lifestyle/marketing brand in the medium-to-long-term is the natural endpoint for all of this.

The club will eventually have to come to the view that the football side of things is holding back the commercial side - and whosoever can successfully "divorce" the football operations from all the money-making stuff will be the key man in the future of this club.

Ultimately, Man Utd will have to metamorphose into a non-football-related entity, and do away with all this pesky sports stuff. This "football" stuff is the very thing holding the club back from greatness, the club just needs to realise that and let go. Become the first "post-football" football club!!
 
Nobby style said:
I’m getting the idea that these guys are bigger idiots than the Woodward crowd

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This is from a few weeks ago, it's pretty grim what they're doing, I spoke to a mate on Friday, he's pretty much last man standing in his department and said its never been so bad (that's approx 20yrs) and that was before the spurs spanking. It's bizarre that they choose to crush a long standing and mostly cost effective workforce to try and rebuild a recently assembled group of very expensive failing players and it contradicts the new stadium centre of the community rejuvenation project that keeps getting promoted by the mega rich/ champagne socialist crew.
 
Fortitude said:
I've felt they've done a number of questionable things that should raise eyebrows,
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Just on this, what are the questionable things you're referring to? I can understand the WHF one which is just petty but in the end probably a disguised way of getting rid of staff, but in general a lot of their actions seem to be in line with wanting to revamp the structure, and getting rid with the complacency of the previous regime - in a hard, corporate way, for sure, which might be the "questionable" element you refer to, but in terms of strategic decisions, most of their actions seem pretty reasonable.
 
neon_badger said:
This is from a few weeks ago, it's pretty grim what they're doing, I spoke to a mate on Friday, he's pretty much last man standing in his department and said its never been so bad (that's approx 20yrs) and that was before the spurs spanking. It's bizarre that they choose to crush a long standing and mostly cost effective workforce to try and rebuild a recently assembled group of very expensive failing players and it contradicts the new stadium centre of the community rejuvenation project that keeps getting promoted by the mega rich/ champagne socialist crew.
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Your mate have any insight who led the drive to give Ten Hag that extension and then a donkey load of cash for more of his players??? Looking more and more like we'll have to pay a huge pay package to shed the manager, and then bring in somebody who's gonna have to make do with all these damaged-soul Ten Hag recruits. And rebuild from there. Madness.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
Just on this, what are the questionable things you're referring to? I can understand the WHF one which is just petty but in the end probably a disguised way of getting rid of staff, but in general a lot of their actions seem to be in line with wanting to revamp the structure, and getting rid with the complacency of the previous regime - in a hard, corporate way, for sure, which might be the "questionable" element you refer to, but in terms of strategic decisions, most of their actions seem pretty reasonable.
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Anything I write will essentially be a rehashing of these posts as they mirror my concerns:

Ichabod Ferguson said:
You didn't address me, because I don't have a dim view of them per se, but I've also been distinctly whelmed by what I've seen so far, so I'll have a stab at it.

My feeling is that after 10 years of United being shit with numerous false dawns I simply want to be actively convinced of a group, manager or a player. I've got too caught up in the cycles of optimism and pessimism, so for me I've tried to put aside all of the self aggrandising PR and focus on what they've actually done, not what they've said they want to do.

In that respect, I do think there have been some positives. The new stadium plans, the appointment of a senior leadership team for the first time, and some of our transfer business. But in other respects I've been disappointed. The most obvious is the backing of ten Hag, but also the sacking of staff because it's INEOS's playbook to come in and chop 25% and stuff like abolishing WFH and complaining about mess just strike me as petty vindictiveness dressed up as a management philosophy, rather than anything that will actually contribute to our success. The disrespect in all of Ratcliffe's communications of the women's team has also been unfortunate. And I also have to say, regardless of his credentials, it's hugely unfortunate that our new CEO was directly involved with City's, alleged, industrial level cheating. It seems to me a fairly dumb decision to expose yourself to the fall out to that.

All of which brings me to how I feel about them currently which is that, whilst they're better than the Glazers, and significantly better than being a Qatari toy, the bar was so low that it would have been a challenge not to pass it, but I will need to see a lot more from them to be actively convinced they're going to be able to bring success back to us.

Maybe just call it a trauma response that I'm slow to trust when it comes to United.
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pocco said:
It's not that I necessarily have a 'dim' view, I just feel like there could be some warning signs. Almost how there were warning signs for practically everything that has gone wrong here, with a bit more scrutiny it is easy to find signs of where it is heading.

Perhaps I'm talking more in anger at the moment, but I can't lie when I say that some of the things INEOS have done have made me take notice. Just some things seem a bit amateurish. I'll give you a list of the things that I have caught my eye, but like I said, I was very pro-INEOS for the takeover and I have no agenda here. They're the guys I wanted, but like I said a long time ago, it's not nailed on that their initial recruits are even the right ones, ie Berrada, Wilcox, Ashworth etc. I just hope that they have the foresight to recognise things that aren't working and act accordingly. This, in my opinion, has been the biggest problem with our club.

Some of the things I've not been impressed by, or have made me take notice at least:

1) SJR saying that he doesn't believe that gardening leave is legally enforceable. Now this guy works in business, and from my lay persons view, gardening leave is a well known mechanism in contracts. So how does he not know this? Seemed odd to me that it almost came across as something he'd never heard of before when talking about Dan Ashworth.

2) The leaked emails between Ashworth and Berrada. Amateur hour. And also dispels the idea that they weren't working behind the scenes, as these emails were sent whilst both were still in post at Newcastle and City. So to also now try and claim also that they aren't responsible for any of the changes, or non change at the club (ETH), as they weren't in post, is a bit daft.

3) The firing of staff behind the scenes, particularly taking a stance against WFH. I can't criticise this as I don't know the in's and out's, but again it seems a bit of an archaic approach and isn't a good look.

4) Some of their handling of the women's team. They took a lot of criticism for this.

5) Their whole approach to ETH's future last season. It was widely briefed that he was getting sacked about a week before the final, and I don't think that every journalist woke up one day and decided to make up the same story. I do believe this had been leaked. So to get from there, to seemingly backtracking after a 'review' that dragged on for far too long, seemed like they had no idea what to do. Then there's stories that they were interviewing candidates whilst ETH was still in post, quite publicly. I've never seen this happen before, and again it seems amateurish and disrespectful. To top this off they seemingly fail at the last hour and rush to meet ETH whilst he's on holiday to save the situation. Again, it just looked ridiculous from my point of view. And the end outcome - we seemingly end up with a coach that we have no faith in. Have you ever heard of this before?

6) The fact that they are still willing to let ETH continue now, even after all of the above is taken into consideration. Are they that short of ideas? Have they pissed the money up the wall and can't even afford to sort out the most crucial position in any team - the coach? It just feels like we'll be in a constant cycle of '2 more games' etc, until it is at absolute breaking point. By this time, the next coach has a huge task, again, to lift the team, and ETH's reputation is in tatters. It just lack decisiveness and flies in the face of this idea that they are looking for 'best in class' etc.

They've only been here a short time but already there's a growing list of questionable things. And that is without analysing their approach to buy the club, the mistakes with thinking that they wouldn't have to buy and Class A shares etc. It all just seems like they're winging it right now.
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Insanity said:
I expected them to be more decisive on two things:

- #1 the managerial decision after the season we were having.
- #2 I didn't want them to acquiesce to ETH's demands and fill the squad with more Dutch/mediocre players.

Results are secondary in the scheme of things. I think they needed a fresh managerial appointment to start their regime. By first dithering with the "review" and then ultimately giving ETH the vote of confidence they have backed themselves into the corner and are up for criticism whatever decision they make now.

I didn't say nothing has improved. I merely pointed out the missteps that they have made, imo. They did some good work in getting the people they wanted in, they recruited (although I may not agree with all the signings) without dragging things on too much and they did a good job on the outgoings. However, they did handcuff themselves by giving ETH and Bruno extensions when both should have been let go in the summer. Now we are in the situation that anyone who isn't wearing red tinted specs expected us to be in. They basically decided to write-off another season when they made those decisions.

Mistakes were made, but it's not too late. It is up to them to accept it and try rectify the situation. We are only 6 games in the league and have all to play for in the cup competitions. Instead of waiting for ETH to dig a bigger hole for them, they should put an end to this now and try to fill the hole.
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Telsim said:
So much for the vaunted "ruthlessness". Unless you are a rank and file employee, that is.
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Extending ten Hag and supposedly snookering themselves with the payout off the back of it is just as bad as loading up the squad with Ten Hag players over the summer when he was already beyond the pale given they must’ve have known there was a distinct possibility they might have to sack him during the season itself.

None of it strikes me as the work of leadership that knows what it’s doing.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
1. Ineos Team promised to implement a style of play but instead being lead by the manager and follow his style of play. Is this how best in class operates?

2. Spent eternity interviewed various managers to end up begging the current manager to stay during his holidays. This is unprecedented for such a giant of a club. The leaks to media and the whole process was shameful.

3. Keep a manager who finished 8th with no proper effective style of play where he make all the teams we played against look like prime Barcelona. Players can just run through our entire defence and we faced unprecedented shots against us.

4. The signings are starting to look no better than under Woodward and Murtough. Really hope I am very wrong on this.

5. Still keeping the manager now even though there is zero improvement or infact got worse from last year catastrophic season.

6. Throwing away another season instead of correcting their mistakes proactively as best in class people. We are being outplayed by Brighton, Crystal Palace and got totally dominated by Spurs.

Ineos Team have done a lot of good such as upgrade Carrington, plan for new stadium, setting up football structure, provide funds and whatnot. But they really need to do much better and in soonest time for the core business which is football.
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It's been 7 games for the signings and for the majority of the time they've actually looked like our better players.

I agree with the rest though, what's more worrying is that they aren't just doing what blatantly needs to be done and sacking the manager now.
 
Not sure what they're doing. Ten Hag is dragging the club through the mud with his incompetence and it will hit the club's pockets eventually. They're not serious people if he's still in charge by the end of next week.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
Just on this, what are the questionable things you're referring to? I can understand the WHF one which is just petty but in the end probably a disguised way of getting rid of staff, but in general a lot of their actions seem to be in line with wanting to revamp the structure, and getting rid with the complacency of the previous regime - in a hard, corporate way, for sure, which might be the "questionable" element you refer to, but in terms of strategic decisions, most of their actions seem pretty reasonable.
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I think the hard corporate way would've been either firing the never-convincing embarrassing Ten Hag, like most pundits and punters wanted, or at least not give him a contract extension til 2027. More like, give him the original "hard corporate" way of the 2025 deal and see if things aren't miraculously sorted, or at least a tiny bit hopeful, then if not, bye bye. But know it looks like they'll be on the hook of paying him out til 2027, and be stuck with his players he brought in. The penny pinching he's done with the staff will be all the more ridiculous when it comes to the Ten Hag sacking payoffs, or as the podcast geezer mentioned, a few minutes of Anthony's pay package would be a lot more than their penny pinching bollocks with the staff.

This does not reek of "pretty reasonable" strategic decisions. Big dorky Jim and his Ineos team aren't not doing much with their money and hard corporate strategies and decision making with a mediocre French side club. Who woulda thunk this foray into the big leagues may just be a disaster for a historical club the size of Manchester United in the Premier? Anyone else think this guy might be way out of his league?
 
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People calling ‘INEOS’ incompetent remind me of the types who moan about their bosses all day, criticising their decisions despite never walking in their shoes.

Possibly understandable when framed against PTSD from the Glazers / Woody etc, but still utterly pointless and based on very little.

This place is mental at the moment!
 
Unfortunately it’s going to take at least a few more transfer windows to undo over a decade of gross mismanagement.
 
Herschel Krustofsky said:
People calling ‘INEOS’ incompetent remind me of the types who moan about their bosses all day, criticising their decisions despite never walking in their shoes.

Possibly understandable when framed against PTSD from the Glazers / Woody etc, but still utterly pointless and based on very little.

This place is mental at the moment!
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What an odd argument. So you are only ever allowed to criticize someone's decisions if you ever "walked in their shoes?" That's weird. Especially considering that many called it a pretty shit decision to stick to EtH and extend his contract back when the decision was made so the hindisght argument doesn't work either.

It's simply that they have made some pretty bad decisions since coming in and fans of course have every right to point this out. What an utterly weird bump
 
Godfather said:
What an odd argument. So you are only ever allowed to criticize someone's decisions if you ever "walked in their shoes?" That's weird. Especially considering that many called it a pretty shit decision to stick to EtH and extend his contract back when the decision was made so the hindisght argument doesn't work either.

It's simply that they have made some pretty bad decisions since coming in and fans of course have every right to point this out. What an utterly weird bump
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There’s a range here.

Questioning them keeping Erik isn’t unreasonable. But it’s still a bit of a leap if you don’t know all the facts / circumstances involved in making that decision (whether you question it now or at the time).

Calling them ‘incompetent’, ‘as bad as the Glazers’ and so on is pretty moronic, classic no-chin behaviour.
 
Herschel Krustofsky said:
There’s a range here.

Questioning them keeping Erik isn’t unreasonable. But it’s still a bit of a leap if you don’t know all the facts / circumstances involved in making that decision (whether you question it now or at the time).

Calling them ‘incompetent’, ‘as bad as the Glazers’ and so on is pretty moronic, classic no-chin behaviour.
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:lol:
 
I still believe it would have taken a significant sum to terminate EtH' s contract in the summer. That is why they focused on players and gave him a chance to really show what he can do without the injuries.

They are in a bit of an awkward position now, having publicly supported him. If they move and sack him soon, it could send the wrong message, although we have seen similar things in other big clubs as well.
 
Herschel Krustofsky said:
People calling ‘INEOS’ incompetent remind me of the types who moan about their bosses all day, criticising their decisions despite never walking in their shoes.

Possibly understandable when framed against PTSD from the Glazers / Woody etc, but still utterly pointless and based on very little.

This place is mental at the moment!
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Based on how they handled the manager situation over the summer… what else woukld you call it. Do you think that is how a big club should be run?

Now they can obviously go on and redeem themselves but that was truly a shambles.
 
Fortitude said:
Like I said, I've kept completely out of it and not said a word because people can believe in whatever they want, plus they may actually be right and INEOS are this saviour figure that can be believed in, but what I didn't and don't understand is backing them so absolutely, before they've done anything or we've gotten a chance to see with our own eyes what they're about.

I also feel like as a fanbase, haven't people been burned enough to learn not to put all eggs in one basket before someone or some entity proves their worth?

I've felt they've done a number of questionable things that should raise eyebrows, but prolonging ETH's stay of execution is the absolute worst and should give cause for doubt, as no giant of the footballing world conducts themselves in this manner. It doesn't matter where they're coming from or what they've done in the past - we know clubs far more successful than ours would not be conducting themselves like this and INEOS are being derided for their actions across the board. These are not the actions of a competent setup; where is the mapped out contingency? Plan of execution? Everything should be set up and ready to roll as and when it's time for that course of action to take place. Sending out bizarre PR junkets that make no sense worsens their position and makes them look like an organisation that isn't organised.

Time should be on their side given they've just got here, but they are drawing extremely negative attention to themselves with how they're going about things - I wouldn't even be in this thread or commenting on them, but for scratching my head wondering what they are playing at to the point I have concerns to voice. They are not leaving a good impression, in the slightest.
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Exactly my current feelings. Things are looking bleak all-round.
 
Hilarious that the caf have all turned on Ineos already as if they’re stupid and don’t know what they’re doing. We must have some amazingly wealthy entrepreneurs and business whizz’s on this forum given how everyone knows better.

Gotta love the caf :lol:
 
Comes across as they knew he wasn't the best at coaching (and wasn't the best option), so they went all in anyway and provided him with as much support as possible in the hope that the new coaching staff and players will make up for the skill gaps he has and things will improve but now that it isn't working, they want to give him as much time as possible to reverse the backfire.

The 'dig up, stupid' scene from the Simpsons is apt to describe the situation.
 
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It was staggeringly bad how they handled the situation in the summer. You just have to hope they've realised what a big mistake they've made and fix it.
 
Nobby style said:
I’m getting the idea that these guys are bigger idiots than the Woodward crowd

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No thats just how you run a business thats over-bloated and losing money.

Their are genuine questions about how the Ten Hag situation has been dealt with but the idea that this is a problem is dumb.
 
M Bison said:
Hilarious that the caf have all turned on Ineos already as if they’re stupid and don’t know what they’re doing. We must have some amazingly wealthy entrepreneurs and business whizz’s on this forum given how everyone knows better.

Gotta love the caf :lol:
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Who'd have thought so many on here would throw a tantrum when something doesn't seem to be working out eh :lol:
 
M Bison said:
Hilarious that the caf have all turned on Ineos already as if they’re stupid and don’t know what they’re doing. We must have some amazingly wealthy entrepreneurs and business whizz’s on this forum given how everyone knows better.

Gotta love the caf :lol:
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You don't seem to see the irony in your own post. INEOS are supposed to come in and show us that they do know what they're doing; being decisive, not making mistakes or leaving us with much doubt that they are this specialist unit that trust can be placed in. There should be no murmurings or discontent about them so soon, and yet we're in October looking at them seemingly tying themselves in knots, having given the manager an extension that the press are stating will cost the club £17.5m instead of the £10m severance it would've been in the summer. That's not to mention loading the squad with Ten Hag players over the summer, which is a policy they were supposed to be guiding the club away from. On top of that, every game a manager who is in freefall has is another game that shortens the ongoing season in terms of our ability to challenge for anything, in turn costing us more money come the close of the season.

Your laughing smiley seems to be heavily misplaced as all of the above is of their devising. If that strikes you as an outfit in total control, more power to you.
 
Cassidy said:
Based on how they handled the manager situation over the summer… what else woukld you call it. Do you think that is how a big club should be run?

Now they can obviously go on and redeem themselves but that was truly a shambles.
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I don’t run one mate. Do you?
 
I think we need to go back to the very basic question, what's the style of play our football structure want us to play? Berrada or Ashworth needs to clarify exactly what's the style of play they envision for the club. This isn't difficult to explain and this needs to be very clearly explained so that everyone in the club including manager, players, coaches and whatnot have the clear vision and work towards it.

If their style of play is what currently ETH is playing then we are truly fecked. I refuse to believe so. There is no point to keep ETH and force him to play Ineos style of play if he couldn't. It's like asking Antony to play CB.

What's the style of play we would like to implement?
 
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