I never get this argument. Why would it be unreasonable? It would have actually been the best way to go about it if they didn't want or weren't able to replace him in the summer. Just keep him until Christmas and reevaluate the situation then. If he was able to turn things around until then, fair enough, new contract or extension handed. To extend him in the summer was simply the wrong decision
Club ownership | Senior management team talk
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I never get this argument. Why would it be unreasonable? It would have actually been the best way to go about it if they didn't want or weren't able to replace him in the summer. Just keep him until Christmas and reevaluate the situation then. If he was able to turn things around until then, fair enough, new contract or extension handed. To extend him in the summer was simply the wrong decision
I sincerely don't know how to answer other than "because it would be". You can't have a lame duck manager in a sport where buy-in from the dressing room is a massive criterion for success. This is notwithstanding what has happened so far this season, but it just wasn't an option, at all.
I'm not sure about that. It's not an ideal scenario but after a season like last it would have been justifiable to have him reevaluated in the winter and then talk about an extension.
Good luck implementing your style in the space of a week where all your players are on international duty.
The people I know that were made redundant have been offered similar roles on a casual contract, it was basically a fire rehire job. Some departments may have been bloated but the areas I witnessed were dangerously understaffed, I've worked in many stadiums Old Trafford requires lots of staff due to its aged infrastructure, the Glazers squeezed every penny out of the place in terms of staffing, then Ratcliffe came and put the boot in.
You have to see the flow of events
- Late February - INEOS officially buy a stake within Manchester United. Its fair to say that Brailsford joined around March
- 19th April - Wilcox joins Manchester United as technical director.
- 30th April - Blanc becomes interim CEO.
- 25th May - Manchester United won the FA cup final.
- 1st July - Ashworth started working for Man utd
- 13 July - Berrada starts working for Manchester United
That means that the two key players here (Ashworth and Berrada) joined after the FA cup final, Blanc joined mere weeks before (and he's not really a football person) and Wilcox was around a month of United's experience in his bag. Wilcox job is particularly vague but he seems to be more on the technical side with a special focus on the academy. Blanc is a commercial genius who specialize in infrastructure. On that regard he's a magician (ie he was behind Juventus being able to build a new stadium IN ITALY while still dishing competitive transfer budgets on a yearly basis and all at a time when Juve was still struggling with calciopoli. Elliott group brought Argentina at it knees but it couldn't persuade the Italian government to allow Milan to build a stadium. That's how good Blanc can be in his area of expertise). However he's not a football person. He was made CEO at Juventus and he tanked on that precisely because he's not a football person.
So here is what I think.
A- INEOS fount a mess of epic proportions. They had to build the football side of things from scratch, they had to tackle fitness, the medical team, find funds for next season's transfers and come up with plans for the training ground and the stadium. All cost money and time
B- Every club we tried to poach people from made our life terrible. First of all because top football people are rare and secondly because every man and his dog knew that United's football side was a shambles and we were desperate.
C- While not being their no 1 priority I think they had a shortlist for the next manager as well.
D- ETH's FA cup win elevated him to star status with the majority of fans suddenly thinking that prime SAF and prime Busby had somehow merged into one man and that man was ETH. That cut INEOS list short for two reasons. First of all they lacked the experienced football personnel that could put his reputation on the table and ease the fans concerns. Wilcox is a decent technical director and had just joined yesterday while Ashworth/Berrada were still out of the building. Secondly they became perfectly aware that they couldn't replace the football messiah with someone like Thomas Frank who had never won anything. The only name available with the right CV, who wouldn't cost us a bomb and who could go toe to toe with football Jesus was Tuchel and even he had to be introduced to the fans gently. Hence we started that bogus football review. I call it bogus because Ashworth joined during the summer and therefore had no way to analyze what ETH does on a daily basis, what are his tactics, his training sessions etc.
E- I spoke about clubs coming with silly demands as a condition to release their players because we were desperate. Well I fear Tuchel tried to do the same. In my opinion we were very close to sign him only for him to pull the carpet under our feet last minute by turning us down for not accepting every silly demand he made. Hence they went for plan b. They kicked the can towards next season by activating his 1 year extension and they hired two people as assistants who could easily slot in as interim managers if needed.. If the fans were right then the club would be spared from spending millions of pounds to have ETH released. If not then ETH's popularity will fizzle away, the fans will learn their lesson and by that time INEOS would have had enough time to identify the problems and to bring someone who can tackle them.
Im not sure what there is to carry on with?
That has just given me an awful vision of @Godfather.
Currently sporting a beard to conceal my lack of chin too so that's pretty accurate! Uncanny.
what is the point of comments like this? It's petty and annoying. You might not like their opinion but no need to be demeaning. They didn't say anything offending. I'm also of the opinion INEOS are looking pretty clueless overall, despite some good things they have done. Do I disagree with you? Yes, but I don't see my opinion as above yours or anything and I respect it.
I also saw another of your posts where you said anyone thinking that INEOS are incompetent right now are 'pretty dim sounding', which implies you think anyone who doesn't agree with you is stupid. There's no need for that.
For the record my doubts about INEOS so far are because of the following reasons:
1. The signings & Bruno's new contract:
Regardless on whether he's good enough or not, Ugarte isn't the kind of profile a team aiming to play progressive, attacking football needs. Zirkzee isn't really a striker and more of a no10 of which we are already overloaded in that position. Extending Bruno's contract also doesn't make sense considering that sacking ETH this season should have been considered a strong possibility and he will now probably be the next managers problem. Also, it's clear to anyone that Bruno isn't suited for anything bar counter-attacking football.
I think De-Ligt, Yoro and Mazaraoi were good signings, but even the glazers made some decent ones every now and then. The problem is they were never signed with an overall plan or vision in mind, which is supposedly what INEOS are all about. Unless the vision is defensive, counter attacking football, then frankly almost half of their signings don't make sense. If that is the vision, well then I'd say we're fecked.
2. Indecisiveness:
They made a clear decision, as briefed by several media sources pre the FA-cup final that ten hag was to be sacked, regardless of the result. We ended up winning and then they changed their stance. Yes, they interviewed other managers so obviously still lacked faith in him, but with the fan pressure along with lack of a clear high quality option, they chose to stay with him. This in itself isn't that bad but they even tried to offer him a whole new contract which he declined, before triggering an extension. After both our worst ever PL and European performances, this makes no sense.
3. More indecisiveness:
ETH isn't sacked yet - There's really no excuse for this one and everyone can see it. There is absolutely no reason ETH should still be employed by us on the back of two humiliating home defeats, following many humiliations in the past 18 months. The lack of better options is a nonsense excuse considering how bad we've been over 18 months. Even an interim while we sound out potential replacements would likely lead to better results.
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Haha sorry dude that’s a pretty TLDR post for a comment I’ve already said I don’t remember posting. You need to read down the thread a bit before replying
No it doesn’t, it very clearly states that anybody writing people off who have been in the job for 6 months or less is stupid.
Having concerns is fine, but the kind of posts I’ve seen lumping INEOS in with the Glazers or saying Wilcox and Ashworth are incompetent already are just nonsensical. Let the guys work, judge them on the outcome, not mid process.
To be fair, INEOS don't have a great track record with Lausanne-Sport or Nice, it was a genuine concern before they got here so not sure why everyone is saying its only been 6 months? They've been fairly sub par at running football clubs for close to a decade.
Only this time they're in bed with uber cnuts - the Glazers. Nothing about this situation screams "success".
Only this time they're in bed with uber cnuts - the Glazers. Nothing about this situation screams "success".
But I thought that Swedish ramble fella, who lots of people reference in here, seemed to suggest we were ok and had 300-400 mil to spend if we wanted, or is this different,
let’s hope Jim is putting his foot down as it seems people at the club are still trying to “forecast” a season with ETH in charge.
Certainly interesting that he's planning to attend the Villa game on Sunday. He generally only is at the big home games so far in his time at the club
We will potentially lose less by sacking him now than we would if we give him the rest of the season and the current poor performances continue as failing to qualify for the Champions League will cost us millions as will failing to progress in the Europa and exiting the cups early.
Tell him he plans to WFH
Maybe he should do that, the results might improve.
Yeah but will the club see it that way
Hopefully he and Dave are starting to analyse which players and completely phoning it in and underperforming. They need to stop throwing managers under the bus when they decide to down tools.
Oh there is players who need to be moved on too
Sorry if this has been discussed but can't we do the gardening leave thing everyone does (Potter, Poch, etc.)? That way it obviously won't have the same negative impact as a lump. Hopefully something to mitigate the financial hit of sacking him, like terms of gardening leave, was included in the new contract. It would be bordering on negligence to not do so actually, considering the review they were undertaking.
I am sure they will be getting all the data about the players via coaches, Fletcher, Wilcox and Ashworth. If I am not wrong they did hire some sports specialists as well so there will be nowhere to hide anymore for certain players.
There is no new contract. The existing one was just extended as they couldn’t agree terms on a new one.
Well, in that case, I'm glad they chose to take hard corporate action on the the bloated staff problem before dealing with Ten Hag. Has Big Jim and the Ineos squad done anything at that mediocre Nice side that would warrant belief that's he's ready for the big time at United?
You are right. I thought it was a new 2 year deal with an adjustment to the existing terms.
It was debated a lot on here whether that was a bad start for INEOS and the first wrong decision. It seems so logical in hindsight now, what a wrong message to send to the players. As we can see, rightly or wrongly, some of the players who want him out smell blood.
The Glazers were the Tory-Lib coalition. Cutting every pound of meat off.
INEOS are the Brexiteer Johnson lot.
“Would you look at this mess? We are the people to change this! Will we hold those at fault, guilty? No. With our small minority stake, we will try to make them rich!”
I DO think that the new team will have a football focus and see on-field results improving. But it’s being done in the ugliest fashion and our club feels every bit as toxic as under the Glazers. It’s gonna be a long road.
Would you still feel the same IF they can manage to finally get the leeches out of the club
I would change my mind. If it didn’t damage the club in any way.
They’re just an awful bunch.
I think at this stage now, it's fair that we demand Berrada or Ashworth to explain what's the style of play they want to implement long term. And how long more they need to implement the style of play. I simply refuse to believe ETH's style of play is what they want to implement long term.
They need to act fast as we can see that the current football structure is going nowhere with ETH. A total reset is required. What is the logic of changing all the people in the football structure with best of class people but keeping a shit manager.
They need to act fast as we can see that the current football structure is going nowhere with ETH. A total reset is required. What is the logic of changing all the people in the football structure with best of class people but keeping a shit manager.
We need a mentality reset with most of our players, besides new coach.
I think this should have been addressed before the season started to be honest. There was all this talk about the game model and Wilcox watching over the manager and training, so why not just state how they want the team to be playing now and in the near future?
I worry there's a huge grey area there so it's not that defined and as a result a host of managers could be candidates to take over, and the adding to a mishmash squad will continue further.
Thankfully we've got a few players at the end of contract next June so there is a decent opportunity to augment the squad further. But there are quite a few players very very tactically limited, and some of them "key" players.
“. . . Eric Ten Hag’s Manchester United Record Their Fourth Straight European Match Conceding Three Goals Away From Home”
Stop moaning! You've never managed United!
These clowns were probaby surprised by yesterdays result/performance.