Club ownership | Senior management team talk

I've lost a good amount of confidence in them after they retained ETH when it was obvious he was going to fail.

And their prior work at Nice didn't fill me with much confidence prior to them taking over.

That said, it's still early. Maybe they turn it around in the summer.
I think they are doing good work behind the scenes and aside from the ETH misstep I think they are being very ruthless too. Apparently trimmed the budget by something like ~£40 million with all the staff redundancies.

They inherited a massive financial mess.
 
It always seems like it can’t get worse but somehow always does

Surely if we manage to shift a couple of players money will be available?

That's exactly what the full Amorim quote says. However, for dramatic purposes, it has been chopped up to say exactly this.
 
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Are people really so dumb? The Glazers run the club into the ground, Ratcliffe comes along to pick up the pieces and it's him who gets all the criticism? Unbelievable! Yes, Ratcliffe is having to make some unpopular decisions but it's a consequence of what came before. The only people who warrant any criticism for these cutbacks are the Glazers.
He's gone too far on the little people.
 
Theyve absolutely fecked up with Amorim. Its a schoolboy mistake. If we had a 433/4231 manager, we'd need much less surgery than we do now. Literally nothing works in these tactics and squad.

Weve hired a young guy that won a 3 team league that is about 6th/7th best in Europe.

Eddie Howe, Thomas Frank type manage would be doing a hell of a lot better with this sqaud. And IMO we should have gone for a manager that was high calibre, proven winner in the big 5 leagues...Tuchel, Pochettino etc... Not some young upstart from a farmer league.
 
I like Amorim but the approach the new lot have taken with him is extremely similar to what Murtough (who had the excuse of having no experience) did with Ten Hag

Basically - here’s the team, do whatever the feck you want. Even beyond tactics the story about him being allowed to make the final call re: Rashford was a huge red flag - completely hands off leadership and letting the manager of the day make big calls instead of sticking to a longer vision.

Like Woody before them they have swung from one style of manager (who they backed in the summer) to another - the idea that they have a “game plan” or vision is laughable given the contrast between the two.

It’s barely discernible from Woody following up Van Gaal with Mourinho, but they’re getting away with it because they’re supposedly experienced football men.
 
Theyve absolutely fecked up with Amorim. Its a schoolboy mistake. If we had a 433/4231 manager, we'd need much less surgery than we do now. Literally nothing works in these tactics and squad.

Weve hired a young guy that won a 3 team league that is about 6th/7th best in Europe.

Eddie Howe, Thomas Frank type manage would be doing a hell of a lot better with this sqaud. And IMO we should have gone for a manager that was high calibre, proven winner in the big 5 leagues...Tuchel, Pochettino etc... Not some young upstart from a farmer league.
But we have seen the man who built this squad finish 8th last season, and get sacked in 13th this season.

Why do we think these players would be infinitely better for anyone else?

The club 100% made a mistake in extending ETH's contract. They should have got Amorin in the summer. That having happened, they will make another mistake if they chicken out and don't back him into next season come what may.
 
There's no chance they can shift Zirkzee without taking a huge PSR hit. He's only 6 months into his contract.
If they could get someone to pay what we paid but with a greater deal of the money upfront, that would be a net positive in terms of PSR
 
I think they are doing good work behind the scenes and aside from the ETH misstep I think they are being very ruthless too. Apparently trimmed the budget by something like ~£40 million with all the staff redundancies.

They inherited a massive financial mess.
We must be paying very good money, that comes out at about £150k+ per headcount.
 
There are like 400 redundancies so it's about 80-100k-ish average.
Still seems very high when a lot of these jobs will have been entry level. And of course some of them will have to be outsourced or will result in reduced output / revenue, not like we had 400 people doing absolutely nothing.
 
I like Amorim but the approach the new lot have taken with him is extremely similar to what Murtough (who had the excuse of having no experience) did with Ten Hag

Basically - here’s the team, do whatever the feck you want. Even beyond tactics the story about him being allowed to make the final call re: Rashford was a huge red flag - completely hands off leadership and letting the manager of the day make big calls instead of sticking to a longer vision.

Like Woody before them they have swung from one style of manager (who they backed in the summer) to another - the idea that they have a “game plan” or vision is laughable given the contrast between the two.

It’s barely discernible from Woody following up Van Gaal with Mourinho, but they’re getting away with it because they’re supposedly experienced football men.

100%.

People are seeing what they want to see, rather than accepting reality.

Change the names to Arnold and Woodward, and everyone would be criticizing how hapless decision making has been.

Basically we've all been had by PR about football men making the decisions. The reality is exactly what people who'd seen what happened at Nice warned about.

There hasn't been any long term thinking and if people think Sir Jim is going to stick with Amorim et al if we look like we might go down they're kidding themselves. Sir Jim didn't buy Man Utd to oversee relegation from the Premier League.

Nice has had a different coach every season under INEOS ain't it, and a few sporting directors. Don't expect anything different at United.
 
100%.

People are seeing what they want to see, rather than accepting reality.

Change the names to Arnold and Woodward, and everyone would be criticizing how hapless decision making has been.

Basically we've all been had by PR about football men making the decisions. The reality is exactly what people who'd seen what happened at Nice warned about.

There hasn't been any long term thinking and if people think Sir Jim is going to stick with Amorim et al if we look like we might go down they're kidding themselves. Sir Jim didn't buy Man Utd to oversee relegation from the Premier League.

Nice has had a different coach every season under INEOS ain't it, and a few sporting directors. Don't expect anything different at United.

Again, Im pretty sure this is why Ashworth fell out of favour and left. He would have argued for tactical continuity so that a change of manager doesnt make a whole squad redundant.
 
Theyve absolutely fecked up with Amorim. Its a schoolboy mistake. If we had a 433/4231 manager, we'd need much less surgery than we do now. Literally nothing works in these tactics and squad.

Weve hired a young guy that won a 3 team league that is about 6th/7th best in Europe.

Eddie Howe, Thomas Frank type manage would be doing a hell of a lot better with this sqaud. And IMO we should have gone for a manager that was high calibre, proven winner in the big 5 leagues...Tuchel, Pochettino etc... Not some young upstart from a farmer league.
You have got a point there to be fair.
 
Lookup Chelsea hotels for your answer
I am surprised that a single sale of £76.5 mil was enough for them to avoid penalties. They must have surely spent upwards of a billion. I understand amortisation over long contracts helped them and it’s closed now, but why are our owners not smart or shrewd enough to find similar loopholes to exploit!
 
Again, Im pretty sure this is why Ashworth fell out of favour and left. He would have argued for tactical continuity so that a change of manager doesnt make a whole squad redundant.

NDAs will stop us ever knowing for sure but I wouldn't be shocked if this was the case.
 
Theyve absolutely fecked up with Amorim. Its a schoolboy mistake. If we had a 433/4231 manager, we'd need much less surgery than we do now. Literally nothing works in these tactics and squad.

Weve hired a young guy that won a 3 team league that is about 6th/7th best in Europe.

Eddie Howe, Thomas Frank type manage would be doing a hell of a lot better with this sqaud. And IMO we should have gone for a manager that was high calibre, proven winner in the big 5 leagues...Tuchel, Pochettino etc... Not some young upstart from a farmer league.

Three-team league? Sporting hadn't won a title in 19 years before he led them to it. And look at how they've collapsed since he left.

But go off, I guess.

Truly we get what we deserve.
 
Eredivisie is ranked 6th, vs Portugal league which is 8th.
Just checked the coefficient and they're ranked 7th, just behind the Eredivisie.

Seems they caught them in 2022 after LigaNos had been ranked higher for years while the Eredivisie had dropped out of the top 10 at one point over the last decade.

Either way, point still stands :lol:. That's not the thing getting in the way for us
 
Again, Im pretty sure this is why Ashworth fell out of favour and left. He would have argued for tactical continuity so that a change of manager doesnt make a whole squad redundant.

Let's not speculate.

Per The Athletic, the man was asked about alternatives to ETH, and gave a list anyone on here could have come up with re: competent PL managers. That's it. His boss had been to the press previously lamenting the stone age quality of our data department. What's Ashworth do? Suggests outsourcing analytics when his role surely is to be building things up already, or at least have something well thought out in hand for the boss when called upon.


Can the Glazers sack off Ineos as they are in charge of the footballing side and falling massively?

The Glazers are still majority owners. We are where we are because of years of their ownership. Your response was predicted: "INEOS are cover for the Glazers, so when things go bad, everyone forgets it's really the Glazers who have damaged us".

We have over 300 million still owed to other clubs on transfer fees for players we all know we need to move on (majority Woodward/Murtough/Arnold legacies). That's to say nothing of the debt we are still paying off, or the fact that we nearly violated PSR this past summer (within 2 million, I believe). Our stadium hadn't been touched in years until the lick of paint last summer. Now we need a new one because this one isn't fit for purpose.

Not a Ratcliffe fan, but I raised eyebrows when he said there were some nasty surprises when INEOS finally looked under the hood. Years of mismanagement and people think it's going to take a couple of painless months to fix it. Do me a favour.
 
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Eredivisie is ranked 6th, vs Portugal league which is 8th.
Do you think that's still accurate though? Players from the Portuguese league are a country mile better when they arrive than players from the Eredivisie. I know that's a pretty broad statement but I'd be a lot more confident buying a player from one of the big 3 clubs in Portugal than the big 3 in the Netherlands nowadays.
 
Theyve absolutely fecked up with Amorim. Its a schoolboy mistake. If we had a 433/4231 manager, we'd need much less surgery than we do now. Literally nothing works in these tactics and squad.

Weve hired a young guy that won a 3 team league that is about 6th/7th best in Europe.

Eddie Howe, Thomas Frank type manage would be doing a hell of a lot better with this sqaud. And IMO we should have gone for a manager that was high calibre, proven winner in the big 5 leagues...Tuchel, Pochettino etc... Not some young upstart from a farmer league.
City were looking to instill Amorim post Pep, Liverpool were also looking at this guy, maybe the answer isn’t just to find the person that suits our mess the best for short term resolution. Amorim has proven himself in the ECL also, these players…….and any prospective player, needs to know that this is the way that it is going to be. It’s a system, we used to only play 442 until thugs we’re shaken up.
 
Theyve absolutely fecked up with Amorim. Its a schoolboy mistake. If we had a 433/4231 manager, we'd need much less surgery than we do now. Literally nothing works in these tactics and squad.

Weve hired a young guy that won a 3 team league that is about 6th/7th best in Europe.

Eddie Howe, Thomas Frank type manage would be doing a hell of a lot better with this sqaud. And IMO we should have gone for a manager that was high calibre, proven winner in the big 5 leagues...Tuchel, Pochettino etc... Not some young upstart from a farmer league.

Thats the biggest disappointment for me. Ineos made the same mistake Woody used to make. Getting managers who have vastly different tactics and philosophies. The lvg/jose debacle.
 
Absolutely clueless bunch, an average fan would have done a better job managing this club.
As someone who is following cycling quite a bit, I am not surprised at all. They somehow managed to destroy a dominant club and turn them into a laughing stock.
 
Theyve absolutely fecked up with Amorim. Its a schoolboy mistake. If we had a 433/4231 manager, we'd need much less surgery than we do now. Literally nothing works in these tactics and squad.

Weve hired a young guy that won a 3 team league that is about 6th/7th best in Europe.

Eddie Howe, Thomas Frank type manage would be doing a hell of a lot better with this sqaud. And IMO we should have gone for a manager that was high calibre, proven winner in the big 5 leagues...Tuchel, Pochettino etc... Not some young upstart from a farmer league.
Pochettino and proven winner in the same sentence haha
 
Do we think if United get relegated that the Glazers will finally ditch their shares?

The plan was always for them to sell. Just that they are greedy and want a massive premium for their shares. If the sheikh has met their valuation we wouldn’t be owned by Ratcliffe and glazers.

Now it’s apparently ratcliffe who will slowly buy up the remainder of the glazers shares at an unknown timeline and price. Who knows what will happen in the future.
 
I think they are doing good work behind the scenes and aside from the ETH misstep I think they are being very ruthless too. Apparently trimmed the budget by something like ~£40 million with all the staff redundancies.

They inherited a massive financial mess.

Aye, they do not enthuse me, but they have about 300 million in transfer fees to pay off alongside attendant debts accrued not by the club, just its owners.

It's great leveraged buyouts are no longer allowed in football. The Glazers, not Ineos, have created our mess.
 
From an executive perspective to pay for Ashworth only to sack him is insane. To extend Ten Hag when you knew you were going to replace him is insane. If we eventually sack Amorim this season after paying out his clause it would be insane. Not even from a playing perspective but just an executive decision making perspective those decisions are doing more harm to the club than whatever cost cutting savings they think will help the club. With psr looming over the club the execs have made that noose tighter with some of their decision making.
 
Let's not speculate.

Per The Athletic, the man was asked about alternatives to ETH, and gave a list anyone on here could have come up with re: competent PL managers. That's it. His boss had been to the press previously lamenting the stone age quality of our data department. What's Ashworth do? Suggests outsourcing analytics when his role surely is to be building things up already, or at least have something well thought out in hand for the boss when called upon.

I agree on the let's not speculate. The flip side of that is let's look at what they're actually doing.

Here's the thing - Ashworth was in place for a handful of months and meanwhile Ineos was busy making people redundant.

Even if he had the chance to judge the analytics team inadequate - which he did - what makes you speculate that he hadn't started to fix that? Replacing specialist staff means recruiting new ones and paying off the old ones.

Neither of those processes come cheap and neither of them takes a few weeks to do. Did he even have the power to do that recruitment? Or was it supposed to be identify who to sack and find the cheapest way to get them to leave and then recruit?

In any case Ashworth did the job people expected him to do and recommended the people he was expected to recommend. His CV was known, they recruited the wrong guy if that wasn't what they wanted but all that suggests to me is they aren't good at recruiting.
 
Still seems very high when a lot of these jobs will have been entry level. And of course some of them will have to be outsourced or will result in reduced output / revenue, not like we had 400 people doing absolutely nothing.
Yep. Most of the jobs will get outsourced - less experienced staff who don't get holiday/sick pay etc will take over - but the costs will just move from one line on the balance sheet to another one. Some will make the queues worse on matchday. Others will make the concourse catering and cleaning even worse. The ticket office phone will stop pretending that you can get through to a human who can help.

Some of them will be unknown to us until people start noticing the museum exhibits stop being cleaned/updated etc or MUTV gets even worse. Some admin jobs will be filled by Ineos people on secondment.

That payroll savings figure wouldn't really be surprising. The actual saving figure won't look like that though.
 
Far too many people still don’t realise this it seems. False dawn after false dawn after false dawn. This club is finished. This is the truth. It will be 20 years at least before anything changes for the better. Easily going past Forest, Bournemouth, Newcastle is a thing of the past. This club has been left behind in the dust. Old, decrepit, decaying. Accept that bottom half is where this club belongs now, and that United will be fortunate to not go the way of other former elites. The INEOS group aren’t changing this course. There is no one player that is changing this. There is no coach that is changing this. There is no executive that is changing this. The only chance for this club is a full sale by both Glazers and INEOS, and an entirely new owner. One with the means, the will and the knowledge.

Wake up to reality.