Agree. I've always said you could undo every transfer in/out LVG made and we'd be better for it.
Club ownership | Senior management team talk
- Thread starter golden_blunder
- Start date
Who are they waiting for to become available exactly? They had the perfect moment to do this three months ago. I don’t believe that guff about Ashworth and Berrada ‘only started in July’ either. They’ve been talking with the club since the start of the calendar year no doubt and since our embarrassing European exit, we got worse with less games to worry about. Pretty fecking obvious decision to me. We won the FA Cup but look at the game we won to get to the final… Needing penalities to beat Coventry after being 3-0 up at the 70th minute mark.
I am starting to think fans may have been overly confident of how amazing our new 'football structure' was going to be, and continue to overrate their credentials trying to justify suspect decision making on Ten Hag and else.
Berrada was a marketing manager at Barcelona, up until 2020 his jobs at City were largely within marketing and operations, he only became accountable for football operations in 2020 and they already had Pep in place, not to mention all the other qualified people like Txiki etc. Ashworth was with West Brom, Brighton and Newcastle before, all jobs vastly different than United, and Wilcox was an executive at Southampton which is also nowhere near United in terms of status.
It might be that they are indeed amazing and are going to prove it at United but we should not just presume that. So far they've all been played by ten Hag as far as I can tell, both in Summer and now.
Berrada was a marketing manager at Barcelona, up until 2020 his jobs at City were largely within marketing and operations, he only became accountable for football operations in 2020 and they already had Pep in place, not to mention all the other qualified people like Txiki etc. Ashworth was with West Brom, Brighton and Newcastle before, all jobs vastly different than United, and Wilcox was an executive at Southampton which is also nowhere near United in terms of status.
It might be that they are indeed amazing and are going to prove it at United but we should not just presume that. So far they've all been played by ten Hag as far as I can tell, both in Summer and now.
The structure have been in place weeks. These are trying times and with the last 10 years in mind it is hard to find more patience, but thats just what we have to show, patience. lets give it a year or two.
This is true, and something that people need to be open to. Don't put these guys on a pedestal.
I said a long time ago that it's not guaranteed that INEOS get these appointments right the first time, but their ability to recognise this and react will dictate how well they do. I suppose the same can be applied to hiring and firing of coaches too. Nobody expects these things to be spot on every time, but recognise something that isn't working and act accordingly. I'm not saying we're at that stage with these guys, far from it right now, but this may be what defines them in the long run.
I'm not saying they are going to be bad or anything, just that they have not been tested in this type of environment before and we should be more receptive to the possibility of them failing with some decisions.
There is more than a decade of poor decisions to undo and unfortunately they compound so anyone coming into that has a hell of a job putting it into reverse. Personally, although the seeming lack of decision is frustrating, it reassures me that the new team are not bounding headlong into another potentially bad decision (I believe ETH is not the man to take us forward but to me it seems like the alternatives are either a gamble or have failed elsewhere).
Sometimes no decision is the best you can do until a new opportunity presents itself but feck me is it frustrating.
Sometimes no decision is the best you can do until a new opportunity presents itself but feck me is it frustrating.
Again, harsh on the poster
He really, really, really doesn't.
Since INEOS took over Nice they have changed 6 managers in last 5 years.
I have no doubt that they will replace ETH. But the question is who will they replace him with?
I have no doubt that they will replace ETH. But the question is who will they replace him with?
Well no one for the rest of the season unfortunately
He’s brought it on himself!
I believe they won't sack ETH until a new manager is secured, even as an interim. And if so then I think it would be a wise strategy. If RVN was plan b then ETH would have been sacked by now.
So far Im less than impressed with INEOS and Jim Ratcliffe and the supposed decisions they would make to turn the club around. Its pretty clear ETH isnt the man for the job and has ben living on borrowed time for over a year, but nobody seems to be able to make a decision about him. Mind you, the grubs improved at Old Trafford.
Ashworth at Brighton was grand to be fair.
Berrada move was kinda weird to be fair. He might be great at his job, but his highest job at City was effectively working under Txiki. And while Txiki is likely the best director of football in the world, going from a sporting director (kinda equivalent to Wilcox) to CEO is effectively two positions higher than he was at City.
We still do not know how the structure will work long term, but the decision to keep EtH is extremely baffling. And to be fair, it was interesting how we barely spent anything in attack this summer, despite it clearly being our weakest department.
Let’s see how things will turn out in the future, but so far the first few months of the United structure have been a total and utter mess. Probably the only silver lining is that we seem to have improved in not overpaying in transfers.
Ashworth has the best credentials of them, I agree. Doesn’t make him infallible but expectation should be that he will turn out capable.
Agreed. I think they've got someone in mind whom they may have already spoken to, but for whatever reason they aren't available right now.
They're not all in for Ten Hag just because he's still here. If they were all in for him, they wouldn't have been speaking to managers during the summer. It's just a matter of time until ETH is gone.
I suspect Ruud has already let it be known that he doesn’t want to be plan B
I think we all suspected that this new bunch would be terrible, but hoped they would be not quite as terrible as the Glazers.
Jury’s still out.
Jury’s still out.
All I wanted was a decisive board. This is not INEOS clearly.
They are just fearful of making a mistake in their decision . Yet not taking the said action is tantamount to big mistake.
Probably, they don't want to make 2 wrong decisions on the turn. In their own thinking.
1. Sacking ETH
2. Picking up a wrong manager concurrently.
So they want to try and make 1 wrong decision only either
sticking with ETH more and then getting their preferred man when sure it's attainable... So sticking with ETH to be the only mistake than sacking him, then getting the next manager wrong.
Probably, they don't want to make 2 wrong decisions on the turn. In their own thinking.
1. Sacking ETH
2. Picking up a wrong manager concurrently.
So they want to try and make 1 wrong decision only either
sticking with ETH more and then getting their preferred man when sure it's attainable... So sticking with ETH to be the only mistake than sacking him, then getting the next manager wrong.
Yeah, they're going to look really(even more) stupid when Tuchel becomes England manager and we sack ETH eventually this season with less choice in terms of replacements.
Just dithering and being cowards. Own up to mistakes and rectify them, that simple.
If ETH stays then I’ll no longer blame him from this point on for how poor we are on the pitch. I will blame the utter incompetence of this new sporting structure.
I think we have to give the new football structure time as Berrada said we will win PL by 2028. Finger crossed.
Ultimately, Berrada, Ashworth and Wilcox need to build a model similar to RM, Barca, City, BM and even Liverpool. Managers can come and go, the team still play good football and win things.
To lesser extend, model similar to Brighton, Dortmund.
We can't keep giving excuses we can't find a "preferred" manager and hence keeping the disaster of a manager. These excuses need to end by 2028 and the best in class football people need to do their job. We are sick and tired of every 2-3 years we need to find a new manager and a new style of play and giving all sort of excuses when it failed. Enough is enough.
We have the resources to build this model in our club because we are one of the biggest club in the world. Do it right by 2028, we will be back as giant of world football again. We should belong at the pinnacle of football alongside RM, BM, Barca and City.
The manager should be just a coach and not dictating the style of play and signing of players like what ETH is doing now. This is model is unsustainable, outdated and prone to failure.
The 2028 vision need to start now. ETH is not the one and the football people need to act fast.
Ultimately, Berrada, Ashworth and Wilcox need to build a model similar to RM, Barca, City, BM and even Liverpool. Managers can come and go, the team still play good football and win things.
To lesser extend, model similar to Brighton, Dortmund.
We can't keep giving excuses we can't find a "preferred" manager and hence keeping the disaster of a manager. These excuses need to end by 2028 and the best in class football people need to do their job. We are sick and tired of every 2-3 years we need to find a new manager and a new style of play and giving all sort of excuses when it failed. Enough is enough.
We have the resources to build this model in our club because we are one of the biggest club in the world. Do it right by 2028, we will be back as giant of world football again. We should belong at the pinnacle of football alongside RM, BM, Barca and City.
The manager should be just a coach and not dictating the style of play and signing of players like what ETH is doing now. This is model is unsustainable, outdated and prone to failure.
The 2028 vision need to start now. ETH is not the one and the football people need to act fast.
If they want a model similar to all the clubs you mentioned, then they need to start acting as those clubs. If Erik was managing any of the clubs on the list, he would be booted out, especially if he was on his 3rd season. As a matter of fact, he would've never made it to the FA cup final to begin with.
We have to start fafing around and become more ruthless now that we have a sporting structure in place. After all 2028 is only 3 and half seasons away.
You do know that Berrada, Ashworth etc weren’t employed by the club when the FA Cup final was played?
If they want a model similar to all the clubs you mentioned, then they need to start acting as those clubs. If Erik was managing any of the clubs on the list, he would be booted out, especially if he was on his 3rd season. As a matter of fact, he would've never made it to the FA cup final to begin with.
We have to start fafing around and become more ruthless now that we have a sporting structure in place. After all 2028 is only 3 and half seasons away.
OK thats fair. Then what's the reason for him still being here now? As posters have said, there's absolutely no way he would survive this PL and european form at any other top club in football. No chance. If we aspire to be a top club, shouldn't we start acting like one?
I think it’s a matter of timing and availability of who they want to replace him.
A decision was made to leave the management position with Ten Hag and allow Berrada and Ashworth to work with him and make an assessment. Some may not like that but I can see how it made sense. Obviously this was delayed given the issues with Ashworth starting and Berrada being on gardening leave.
I’m pretty confident they will have seen enough to know he’s not going to be their manager but the timing is really rubbish. It may be we have to accept an interim and that this season will be a bit of a write off in return for them getting the person they want for the project. I feel that’s going to be the trade off fans need to consider.
Yeah, I agree but at this point I think an interim would be the more sensible option both for on the pitch performances and to somewhat lift the toxic atmosphere around the club and fanbase at the moment.
I’m leaning that way I guess the worry may be how early it is and who would be the best candidate as interim?
It’s a long time left in the season to commit to an interim until summer. Plus who would take it?
Who would take an interim position is the big question. Nobody is going to leave a current job to take an interim role, unless there’s some chance they could earn it permanently. Ole seems to be the only one who has vaguely indicated he might do it. We seem stuck between a rock and a hard place - don’t want EtH but no viable alternatives available.
Yeah it’s really tough and that’s why I can understand the deliberations currently.
RvN
Carrick (would he leave Middlesbrough for interim role?)
McKenna (he’d want it permanently and would he ditch Ipswich so early on?)
Ole
Really if Ten Hag goes immediately it will be RvN and Hake I suspect. Possibly Ole.
Then you have to weigh up 3/4s of a season with those guys in charge.
Officially, or have you forgotten the whole Asworth email scandal?
Even so, one doesn't need to be appointed full time in order to be up to date with the manager situation. The point is that during this international break, this duo had all the necessary reasons to sack ETH and behave like one of the clubs that I listed.
Instead they burried their head in the sand, are dragging their feet and are pretending like Erik was appointed 2 months ago and now he needs time to turn things around.
If you think this somehow excuses them, then we might as well embrace the reality where we will be competing with Villa and Spurs in the near future.
And I'm asking you how is it wrong? Please elaborate.
I’ve just told you. They weren’t employed by the club at the point in time you referred to in your post.
If that's the case, then re read the original message.
I was infering to the fact that Erik would've gotten the boot at Real, Barca or even Bayern before the FA Cup final. I didn't state anywhere that Ashworth or Berrada shoud've booted him before the cup final.
However I do blame them for dragging on the sacking process longer than necessary and the fact that Erik is still somehow employed with us is a black mark on our beloved club. Hence I was referring that their ambitions aren't those of a big club.
There are some managers who are not in a job right now, who probably wouldn’t mind earning a few millions for a season. The likes of Potter, Joachim Low, Mauricio Sarri, Rudi Garcia, Edin Terzic, Allegri. Some of them with nothing to lose, some who would hope that if they do well, can get the job in the summer.
Some of them like Potter, Terzic, in addition to the likes of Tuchel and Pochetino could also be interesting full time choices.
Not sure what are we expecting, we won’t get a summer of 2013 when Pep, Mourinho and Ancelotti were available (and many others) only for us to choose Sir David Moyes.
I would hope that @Dan Ashworth, @jim Ratcliffe and co will have enough contacts (and be able to provide enough stability and support) to ensure that we can make it quite a smooth process when we nee to make a hire. I hope an interim won’t be necessary.
It might be an @OverratedOpinion but I really fail to see someone like Emery turning the job down if we made a concrete and serious approach