Club ownership | Senior management team talk

Tom Van Persie said:
In fairness he said he would allow the people he hired to make the football decisions. He learned that lesson at Nice.
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This; he's got the people in charge to make this decision. If THEY keep getting it wrong, then he needs to take responsibility for that and replace them. Let Berarda and Ashworth work.
 
Sir Jim Ratcliff gave a PR answer. He hired the management team and paying big bucks to do footballing matters. Usually like any big corporation there is a chain of command who reports to who , who give orders and who receives and who work in parallel. They usually communicate through reports and meetings. IF the decision to fire Eric ten hag is made ( say by Berada, Ashworth..etc)they would have to consult with their bosses ( sir jim ratcliff ..etc) for the final say or approval . It is inconceivable that such a big decision would be made with letting the big bosses know first. The big bosses may not micromanage but need to know what is happening at the club and its operation. Aftercall they have invested on the club and the last thing they want to hear is from the media that Ten Haag is gone.
 
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cd0zydxrpl8o

In short, the article state that ETH can't coach defence and attack. I would add also can't coach midfield. So what is Ineos waiting? Maybe they are the real best in class that can see things all other experts can't see by keeping ETH? Or they dont want to admit their mistakes in the summer keeping ETH and spend 200M going nowhere.
 
They look like they can hire but not fire, definitely undoing the good work in transfers and appointments. They let this carry on past international break and all faith in them will be completely gone
 
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Because they made so much noise about the decision to keep or sack him and publicly interviewed so many managers, they forced themselves into having to extend ETH's contract when they decided to keep him.

Had they been swift and not gone about it so publicly, they could have kept him without the extension. Sure, he would be under more pressure but it's not that uncommon for a manager to be in the last year of his contract.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
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Just make a quick decision and get rid of him. ETH is delusional to think that the management has faith in his work. I think he belongs bottom tier of managers who manage a team in the premier. Let him be proud of the 2 cups that he won, let's see if any big clubs are willing to hire him.
 
So far it's not looking great. Yes they have done some moves in upper management, but they've also been ruthless with their lower end staff, and in the most important areas they have not looked good. Buying players that it seems the manager they were trying to replace wanted, and keeping the aforementioned completely inept manager when it was clear he should have gone.

Let's see what they do next. I'm guessing it'll be not a lot.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
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I really hope they don't do this now. Let the new structure establish itself for a few years and then put a documentary opportunity out to tender. Wait until things are actually improving and theres a sense of progress to portray.
 
I’m sure Jim will spot someone in the kitchens or the laundry room that he’ll let go this morning. At which point ETH will slip by, and live to manage United another day.
 
Jed I. Knight said:
I’m sure Jim will spot someone in the kitchens or the laundry room that he’ll let go this morning. At which point ETH will slip by, and live to manage United another day.
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Big Jim is probably too pre occupied with going around the offices checking that the printer inks are being used to their absolute max (the old white tape over the sensors trick), too worry about actual football stuff.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
Get it done! Show us the Ineos ruthless and efficient way. You have retrenched the workforce 20-25%. Now is time to get it right for the most important appointment of the club.
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Cutting the workforce meant savings. Firing ETH means paying him a hefty fee. I'm worried he's staying
 
It’s a bit concerning that it’s the football experts that seem to be dithering over whether to sack him or not, whereas the likes of Jim and Joel Glazer seem to be keen to give him the boot.
 
ShinjiNinja26 said:
It’s a bit concerning that it’s the football experts that seem to be dithering over whether to sack him or not, whereas the likes of Jim and Joel Glazer seem to be keen to give him the boot.
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Rumor has it that it's Brasilford who's clogging the whole process. He was also the one who was in favor of keeping ETH in the summer, despite reservations from Wilcox and Berrada.
 
ArmaDino said:
Rumor has it that it's Brasilford who's clogging the whole process. He was also the one who was in favor of keeping ETH in the summer, despite reservations from Wilcox and Berrada.
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With all the respect in the world, why in the feck would we go to the trouble of poaching guys like Berrada, Wilcox and Ashworth only to then ignore them for the opinions of Sir Spandex and his cycling opinions?
 
r0663664 said:
Just make a quick decision and get rid of him. ETH is delusional to think that the management has faith in his work. I think he belongs bottom tier of managers who manage a team in the premier. Let him be proud of the 2 cups that he won, let's see if any big clubs are willing to hire him.
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Only problem might be too many contradicting opinions. If we have Joel, Ratcliffe, Berrada, Answorth, Wilcox , Blanc all discussing it you night have various opinions. Answorth might say “he’s great to work with give him time” Wilcox might be for or against based on ETH desired style of play, Joel purely thinking of the money, Barrada might be more tactical thinking about “replace him but with who”. Jim most likely will think we gave him a new contract a few months ago.
 
Yeah I’m not convinced he gets sacked tomorrow. If they wanted him gone they’d call a special meeting and get it done quickly.

Gives a lot of people here a chance to go to the Brentford match to jeer and boo our own players so it’s not all bad.
 
ArmaDino said:
Rumor has it that it's Brasilford who's clogging the whole process. He was also the one who was in favor of keeping ETH in the summer, despite reservations from Wilcox and Berrada.
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Bald friends
 
Red Star One said:
Love the man but he really shouldn’t be advising much, his track record in recommendations after the retirement has bee abysmal. Let the legend enjoy time off
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He recommended, Guardiola, Klopp, Mourinho, Ancelotti, Poch and Allegri over the years. We spoke to all of them. Hardly abysmal. Just because they d didnt get what he's recommended. We dont and never have presented the tools that these coaches want to make it a success. The only person who could have made it a success with this clubs staff is Fergie himself.
 
Hope it's not the case of too many cooks. Joel, Radcliffe, Brailsford, Berrada, Ashworth, Wilcox and SAF? OMG, it will takes forever. Just get it done FFS. I think it's time to try something else. It has been 3 years and 600M, enough is enough.
 
I actually really believe in this lot. Ashworth, Berrada, Brailsford, Wilcox. They're people with genuinely impressive backgrounds and a lot of pedigree.

The managerial situation is a mess but I am certain that they will oversee a drastic improvement in the clubs fortunes over the next few years. I'm not certain we'll be banging out leagues or champions leagues, but we'll be a highly stable club with at least an outside chance of winning the league most seasons.

Despite everything, I'm still excited.
 
GDaly95 said:
I actually really believe in this lot. Ashworth, Berrada, Brailsford, Wilcox. They're people with genuinely impressive backgrounds and a lot of pedigree.

The managerial situation is a mess but I am certain that they will oversee a drastic improvement in the clubs fortunes over the next few years. I'm not certain we'll be banging out leagues or champions leagues, but we'll be a highly stable club with at least an outside chance of winning the league most seasons.

Despite everything, I'm still excited.
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I agree, and above all I trust their judgement. If they think removing Erik is for the best then so be it, if they believe they can see improvements (as I do) and want to stay the course then I’m okay with that too. I know it’s difficult after years of ‘trust the process’ and total incompetence but these guys know the business and know what they are doing in a way we haven’t had before.
 
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23 points from last 19 games/half season.

£600m spent, much of which wasted.

He has to go, no ifs or buts.
 
Plant0x84 said:
I agree, and above all I trust their judgement. If they think removing Erik is for the best then so be it, if they believe they can see improvements (as I do) and want to stay the course then I’m okay either way that too. I know it’s difficult after years of ‘trust the process’ and total incompetence but these guys know the business and know what they are doing in a way we haven’t had before.
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These guys have forgotten more about football and running a top club than most of the people here calling for Ten Hag’s head will ever know.

This isn’t Woodward and his banker pals making the calls anymore. We need patience - as Ratcliffe has said multiple times - walk toward the right decision, don’t run into the wrong one.
 
ArmaDino said:
Rumor has it that it's Brasilford who's clogging the whole process. He was also the one who was in favor of keeping ETH in the summer, despite reservations from Wilcox and Berrada.
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TheReligion said:
Where did you get this from?
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ArmaDino said:
There is a reason I mentioned that it was a rumor. However back in June, him and our interim CEO were both backing ETH to stay.

https://thepeoplesperson.com/2024/0...s-advocating-for-erik-ten-hag-to-stay-280980/
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*May

Do you have a source of the rumour you refer to which is relevant to today, or is it just your rumour?
 
GDaly95 said:
I actually really believe in this lot. Ashworth, Berrada, Brailsford, Wilcox. They're people with genuinely impressive backgrounds and a lot of pedigree.

The managerial situation is a mess but I am certain that they will oversee a drastic improvement in the clubs fortunes over the next few years. I'm not certain we'll be banging out leagues or champions leagues, but we'll be a highly stable club with at least an outside chance of winning the league most seasons.

Despite everything, I'm still excited.
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They let him stay and my faith in them being able to make the big calls when required is zero
 
The main point of establishing a football structure and get those best in class people in so that we can run the football side of the club competently, decisively and efficiently. So far, somehow it feels like it's worse than under Woodward and Murtough. I can't believe I said this!
 
With so many qualified people in those meetings, the question 'What is the current level of this squad? What's the baseline?' must have come up before the season started. I wonder how SJR, Brailsford, Ashworth, Berrada, Wilcox etc went about answering it. Do they answer it relative to the teams in the league? Do they answer it statistically - in terms of xG, xGA, xPoints? Do they answer it in terms of good old position in the table? Did they do they a complex modeling of expected results provided injuries weren't crippling us, and then come up with a hypothetical position in the league?

Whatever the answer to that question was in summer (even if it was a 'we don't really know'), it could not have been worse than the equivalent of '8th best team in the league'. Whatever that answer was, the expectation for the current season must have been higher given the investments we made, the lack of crippling injuries, and a fresh start. Whatever the baseline was, it had to be way higher than 14th in the league with 5 goals scored and woeful results in the xTables as well. There is no metric at all where we're doing any better at all.

Simply put, they know that ETH is massively underperforming. If there were any signs of improvement - unlucky results, more injuries, close games where we're just missing out on results, excellent passages of play, etc - they might consider that it's worth continuing to believe in him. But as of now, there simply are none.

The possible scenarios where he does not get sacked seem to be:
(a) senior management does not think 10-odd games is representative enough of a sample space to take a call,
(b) there is a lack of a contingency plan for results tanking this early - they haven't planned for viable alternatives who can be logistically employed at this stage who can do better,
(c) they believe alternatives are available, but they aren't sure what vision they have for the next manager and are frantically trying to figure that out before holding talks,
(d) Ten Hag is indeed Harry Potter and has managed to convince them that we are in fact, not as far off the baseline as 14th seems to indicate, and
(e) the decision making in senior management is still undecided, we dither because no one is taking accountability or responsibility for the big calls under SJR, yet

I don't believe (c) is a possibility, given that they've had these talks over the summer with potential hires - the profile of the summer signings indicates foresight, they must have some idea.
I don't think (b) takes too much time if (c) and some semblence of a vision is in place, because EtH has set the standards so very low. Anyone would be an improvement at this stage.
I don't think EtH has the charisma for (d).

Perhaps (a) and (e) are the only scenarios in which EtH survives. I can't think of anything else.
 
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