Club ownership | Senior management team talk

[croadyman]

The main point of establishing a football structure and get those best in class people in so that we can run the football side of the club competently, decisively and efficiently. So far, somehow it feels like it's worse than under Woodward and Murtough. I can't believe I said this!

Yeah you are absolutely spot on

 

[romufc]

The main point of establishing a football structure and get those best in class people in so that we can run the football side of the club competently, decisively and efficiently. So far, somehow it feels like it's worse than under Woodward and Murtough. I can't believe I said this!

Right, so because they haven't done what you "think" should be done they are worse than Woodward or Murtough?

So you think us spending more time negotiating, getting good value for players in the summer, was worse than Woodward?

Getting players out and getting 100m in sales, worse than Murtough?

Hiring specialist for technical director, sporting director is worse than 1 man running it all?

 

[Pughnichi]

With all the respect in the world, why in the feck would we go to the trouble of poaching guys like Berrada, Wilcox and Ashworth only to then ignore them for the opinions of Sir Spandex and his cycling opinions?

We’ve been here before. Rangnick

But we didn’t like his opinions either and quickly ignored him and moved him along

 

[devilish]

Rumor has it that it's Brasilford who's clogging the whole process. He was also the one who was in favor of keeping ETH in the summer, despite reservations from Wilcox and Berrada.

There are rumors now stating that football people want ETH to stay while SJR is the one pushing him out. Don't believe everything that you hear

 

[romufc]

We’ve been here before. Rangnick

But we didn’t like his opinions either and quickly ignored him and moved him along

There is a clear difference, I am not sure you are getting the context right.

Rangnick was a interim manager that was hired by Murtough and the board under the guidance of Glazers.

Brailsford is hired by SJR (part owner), who has been key for SJR in other sports, so he clearly respects his views.

I know you just want to go down the negativity road but just look at the changes made, you would be very naïve in thinking that 3 months and everything will change.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

 

[Pughnichi]

Right, so because they haven't done what you "think" should be done they are worse than Woodward or Murtough?

So you think us spending more time negotiating, getting good value for players in the summer, was worse than Woodward?

Getting players out and getting 100m in sales, worse than Murtough?

Hiring specialist for technical director, sporting director is worse than 1 man running it all?

Madness right?

There’s a huge knee jerk reaction based on recent performances v Tottenham and Porto. Both were unacceptable of course. Performance wise against spurs and throwing away 2-0 in Europe

A point to AV ain’t too bad

And only recently many were seeing some positive signs in our play. Citing Southampton, Barnsley, 45 against Palace and unfortunate to see defeat against Brighton

People starting to question every single signing. De ligt has been decent apart from one bad game. Mazroui solid. We’ve not even seen Ugarte really and Yoro. Zirkzee even despite a couple of poor showings recently showed early one he at least has some ability to link up

In my mind. They’ve done an awful lot right. Almost everything.

I’m actually of the opinion that ETH should go. But I can also see them giving him more time. I’ll be getting frustrated if after spurs and Porto there isn’t a reaction after the international break and they persevere with him closer to the end of the season.

 

[Red Ten]

For what it's worth, I don't think they will fire him today. But, they may well have their eye on the next International break in November. We, supposedly, have a run of favourable games (no such thing for this United team) between now & then. If things pick up, then fine, keep him. However, if results continue to tank then he's probably gone then. This also gives them time to firm up what their plan of action is going to be if they out him.

 

[croadyman]

There is a clear difference, I am not sure you are getting the context right.

Rangnick was a interim manager that was hired by Murtough and the board under the guidance of Glazers.

Brailsford is hired by SJR (part owner), who has been key for SJR in other sports, so he clearly respects his views.

I know you just want to go down the negativity road but just look at the changes made, you would be very naïve in thinking that 3 months and everything will change.

They have made some positive appointments, also signed players for decent fees but still feel they fudged decision on sacking Erik

 

[romufc]

Madness right?

There’s a huge knee jerk reaction based on recent performances v Tottenham and Porto. Both were unacceptable of course. Performance wise against spurs and throwing away 2-0 in Europe

A point to AV ain’t too bad

And only recently many were seeing some positive signs in our play. Citing Southampton, Barnsley, 45 against Palace and unfortunate to see defeat against Brighton

People starting to question every single signing. De ligt has been decent apart from one bad game. Mazroui solid. We’ve not even seen Ugarte really and Yoro. Zirkzee even despite a couple of poor showings recently showed early one he at least has some ability to link up

In my mind. They’ve done an awful lot right. Almost everything.

I’m actually of the opinion that ETH should go. But I can also see them giving him more time. I’ll be getting frustrated if after spurs and Porto there isn’t a reaction after the international break and they persevere with him closer to the end of the season.

Yep, this narrative that just because they not sacking him, Murtough was better, is lazy and pathetic.

You don't judge a new board in 3 months time, you judge in in 12-18 months, when you see what they are doing, its not just to look at the managers position is it? Yes, us fans will mostly look at players / managers but these guys have a bigger remit.

In the time they are in, they have streamlined operations, built up plans for a new stadium, new board and a change of how things work.

They will obviously look at the managerial position in detail but they wont be pushed into making a decision with haste.

 

[romufc]

They have made some positive appointments, also signed players for decent fees but still feel they fudged decision on sacking Erik

Yes, I agree on that but that does not mean Murtough was better?

 

[golden_blunder]

The main point of establishing a football structure and get those best in class people in so that we can run the football side of the club competently, decisively and efficiently. So far, somehow it feels like it's worse than under Woodward and Murtough. I can't believe I said this!

Patience. This will pass

 

[golden_blunder]

Yep, this narrative that just because they not sacking him, Murtough was better, is lazy and pathetic.

You don't judge a new board in 3 months time, you judge in in 12-18 months, when you see what they are doing, its not just to look at the managers position is it? Yes, us fans will mostly look at players / managers but these guys have a bigger remit.

In the time they are in, they have streamlined operations, built up plans for a new stadium, new board and a change of how things work.

They will obviously look at the managerial position in detail but they wont be pushed into making a decision with haste.

Thank you, finally a bit of sense

 

[Pughnichi]

There is a clear difference, I am not sure you are getting the context right.

Rangnick was a interim manager that was hired by Murtough and the board under the guidance of Glazers.

Brailsford is hired by SJR (part owner), who has been key for SJR in other sports, so he clearly respects his views.

I know you just want to go down the negativity road but just look at the changes made, you would be very naïve in thinking that 3 months and everything will change.

I don’t want to go down the negative route at all. I’m actually pleased with what Ineos have done in their short time off the pitch

I also didn’t think ill of them for allowing ETH more time at the start of the season.

But after our worst start I do think his time should be called now though. And if it isn’t…a timescale implemented before we start seeing a significant improvement re on pitch performance. It can’t be a’la Woodward and only pull the trigger when top 4 isn’t mathematically possible

I was merely pointing out what we brought Ralph to the club for…and then seemingly ignored him

 

[croadyman]

I don’t want to go down the negative route at all. I’m actually pleased with what Ineos have done in their short time off the pitch

I also didn’t think ill of them for allowing ETH more time at the start of the season.

But after our worst start I do think his time should be called now though. And if it isn’t…a timescale implemented before we start seeing a significant improvement re on pitch performance. It can’t be a’la Woodward and only pull the trigger when top 4 isn’t mathematically possible

I was merely pointing out what we brought Ralph to the club for…and then seemingly ignored him

Yeah Ralf was wrong to be ignored, just look at some of the players he suggested to sign

 

[romufc]

I don’t want to go down the negative route at all. I’m actually pleased with what Ineos have done in their short time off the pitch

I also didn’t think ill of them for allowing ETH more time at the start of the season.

But after our worst start I do think his time should be called now though. And if it isn’t…a timescale implemented before we start seeing a significant improvement re on pitch performance. It can’t be a’la Woodward and only pull the trigger when top 4 isn’t mathematically possible

I was merely pointing out what we brought Ralph to the club for…and then seemingly ignored him

The point about Ralph highlights the issues we had at the club before.. we had no idea what we were doing and there was no plan in place.

At least under the new board there is a plan, hiring people on permanent not temporary. This was there is responsibility on decision makers.

In respects to Ten Hag, I agree the time has come to sack him. I said he needs to show significant improvement this season, 6 PL games in, I dont see it and if you are not going to see it in the first 2 months of the season, my belief is that we will never see it.

 

[Pughnichi]

The question was raise

Yeah Ralf was wrong to be ignored, just look at some of the players he suggested to sign

The Rangnick reference was raised only because some questioned…surely we aren’t bringing in a new management team to then ignore them.

I’ll bite though. Which of the suggested signings do you not believe would have been suitable?

It can’t be Haaland, Gvaridol, Luis Diaz or Julian Alvarez?

I wouldn’t even have been against Vlahovic, Latimer or Nkuku (unlucky with a serious injury since)

It’s hardly an abomination of a shortlist

 

[croadyman]

For what it's worth, I don't think they will fire him today. But, they may well have their eye on the next International break in November. We, supposedly, have a run of favourable games (no such thing for this United team) between now & then. If things pick up, then fine, keep him. However, if results continue to tank then he's probably gone then. This also gives them time to firm up what their plan of action is going to be if they out him.

Just means another month of not being bothered if we draw or lose games which is truly awful

 

[Pughnichi]

The point about Ralph highlights the issues we had at the club before.. we had no idea what we were doing and there was no plan in place.

At least under the new board there is a plan, hiring people on permanent not temporary. This was there is responsibility on decision makers.

In respects to Ten Hag, I agree the time has come to sack him. I said he needs to show significant improvement this season, 6 PL games in, I dont see it and if you are not going to see it in the first 2 months of the season, my belief is that we will never see it.

absolutely agree. He can’t even hide behind not having players available when we’ve seen teams continue to perform with injuries and their apparent squad player options stepping in to maintain their levels. He just hasn’t been able to relay a coherent plan to this squad

 

[RedRover]

Right, so because they haven't done what you "think" should be done they are worse than Woodward or Murtough?

So you think us spending more time negotiating, getting good value for players in the summer, was worse than Woodward?

Getting players out and getting 100m in sales, worse than Murtough?

Hiring specialist for technical director, sporting director is worse than 1 man running it all?

I assume he means the decision to keep ETH on and how that looks to be turning out.

Clearly, some aspects of how the club is being run have improved. The whole ETH situation appears, barring a miraculous turnaround, to have been bodged. Hopefully they act decisively to put it right.

They need to get the big decisions right, and decisions around who is Manager/First Team Coach (or whatever title he gets) is the biggest.

 

[House Mkhitaryan]

We have a -4 goal differential in the league since the start of last season and performance in Europe is absolutely shocking. It's beyond all comprehension that he is still in charge.

 

[croadyman]

The question was raise

The Rangnick reference was raised only because some questioned…surely we aren’t bringing in a new management team to then ignore them.

I’ll bite though. Which of the suggested signings do you not believe would have been suitable?

It can’t be Haaland, Gvaridol, Luis Diaz or Julian Alvarez?

I wouldn’t even have been against Vlahovic, Latimer or Nkuku (unlucky with a serious injury since)

It’s hardly an abomination of a shortlist

Maybe you misinterpreted I was saying he should have been listened to on player suggestions, didn't he also put forward Fernandez too.

 

[Pughnichi]

Maybe you misinterpreted I was saying he should have been listened to on player suggestions, didn't he also put forward Fernandez too.

Ahh. My bad. Sorry

Yeah Enzo was on there. Left him out because he is a bit useless. Or at least far from being a 100m player

 

[croadyman]

Ahh. My bad. Sorry

Yeah Enzo was on there. Left him out because he is a bit useless. Or at least far from being a 100m player

Diaz and Gvardiol would have been superb

 

[Malons]

I really hate the term 'best in class'. I think it sums up our issues over the last few years, on and off the field. That if we simply collate individuals who collectively command salaries that indicate they're top of their field, that success will naturally flow. You need a dynamic of people with the same ideals that can pull in the right direction. We're not forming an off-field equivalent of a fantasy football team or a fantasy boardroom game.

We need people who share the same vision and direction

 

[Yakuza_devils]

Right, so because they haven't done what you "think" should be done they are worse than Woodward or Murtough?

So you think us spending more time negotiating, getting good value for players in the summer, was worse than Woodward?

Getting players out and getting 100m in sales, worse than Murtough?

Hiring specialist for technical director, sporting director is worse than 1 man running it all?

It's not only "what I think" but almost 86% of the fans in this forum and countless others fans worldwide. Also majority of the football experts out there too.

The main point is they screwed up the most important appointment of the club and need to rectify the situation asap. In this aspect, it feels like we were better under Woodward and Murtough. And not the other aspects as you stated and put word into my mouth

 

[Yakuza_devils]

Patience. This will pass

Patience for the new football structure? Sure, 100%. They are only on board a few months.

Patience for ETH? Nope, 0%. After 3 years and 600M, there is still no defence, midfield or attack. Last year we finished 8th and now we are 14th struggling to score goals and no style of play at all. What is there to be patience for? Patience until we are relegated and next year we get a new manager to fight promotion to PL?

 

[Herman Toothrot]

I really hate the term 'best in class'. I think it sums up our issues over the last few years, on and off the field. That if we simply collate individuals who collectively command salaries that indicate they're top of their field, that success will naturally flow. You need a dynamic of people with the same ideals that can pull in the right direction. We're not forming an off-field equivalent of a fantasy football team or a fantasy boardroom game.

We need people who share the same vision and direction

Maybe give them a bit of time. Neither getting in Little Timmy Tuchel nor sticking with Ten Bob were great choices. It is a long term project, and it's likely neither manger will be a part of it, and short term pain was somewhat inevitable. After a decade of misery, nobody wants to hear that it's going to take patience. But it is, and will. The press are having a lot of fun this week, but you're perfectly entitled to ignore it.

 

[mitchmouse]

Hasn't he been sacked yet? are they waiting til they've finished their cheese and tomato sarnies and glass of liebfraumilch before taking the decision?

 

[golden_blunder]

Patience for the new football structure? Sure, 100%. They are only on board a few months.

Patience for ETH? Nope, 0%. After 3 years and 600M, there is still no defence, midfield or attack. Last year we finished 8th and now we are 14th struggling to score goals and no style of play at all. What is there to be patience for? Patience until we are relegated and next year we get a new manager to fight promotion to PL?

Patience with the new setup, not for ETH. Why would you even think that?

 

[Scottynaldinho]

Why can't all these best in class people use AI to manage the us? Just tell chatGPT that you're the manager and it can't be worse than Erik.

 

[lsd]

Hasn't he been sacked yet? are they waiting til they've finished their cheese and tomato sarnies and glass of liebfraumilch before taking the decision?

He won't be getting sacked. It appears INEOS don't have the courage to make that decision and will happily bury their heads in the sand as we sink further behind

 

[romufc]

It's not only "what I think" but almost 86% of the fans in this forum and countless others fans worldwide. Also majority of the football experts out there too.

The main point is they screwed up the most important appointment of the club and need to rectify the situation asap. In this aspect, it feels like we were better under Woodward and Murtough. And not the other aspects as you stated and put word into my mouth

Ok, I put words in your mouth, but this is your quote "football side of the club competently, decisively and efficiently. So far, somehow it feels like it's worse than under Woodward and Murtough. I can't believe I said this!"
So you feel the football side of it was better under Woodward and Murtough.
1. They have got rid of players not required and bought profiles for good fees over names - I suspect you preferred Murtough's method, overpay and not get rid of players?

2. That is your opinion that the most important appointment was the manager.. go back to when INEOS took over and you will the see the most important things for fans was to get a structure. This is revisionism at the highest level.

 

[padzilla]

Why can't all these best in class people use AI to manage the us? Just tell chatGPT that you're the manager and it can't be worse than Erik.

We are missing a trick by not being the first club to let artificial intelligence coach and manage the side. Manchester UnAIted.

 

[Lash]

Patience for the new football structure? Sure, 100%. They are only on board a few months.

Patience for ETH? Nope, 0%. After 3 years and 600M, there is still no defence, midfield or attack. Last year we finished 8th and now we are 14th struggling to score goals and no style of play at all. What is there to be patience for? Patience until we are relegated and next year we get a new manager to fight promotion to PL?

180m or so of that is the new football structures signings from this season and the best ones so far are the ones are old Ten Hag players. I don't particularly believe the clash over Ugarte, but if you particularly believe such rumours, Erik wasn't convinced on him and hasn't looked like he was particularly waiting all summer for.

The football structure haven't exactly set the world alight with their decisions and not sure why it all goes to Ten Hag. As a group, including the manager, they've ballsed this summer up with their priorities if they wanted to see something different this season. We have to hope that their decisions in the market are the right ones long term, because hardly any of them have shown to be in the short term. They're the ones who gave Ten Hag a new contract as well, remember.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

Ok, I put words in your mouth, but this is your quote "football side of the club competently, decisively and efficiently. So far, somehow it feels like it's worse than under Woodward and Murtough. I can't believe I said this!"
So you feel the football side of it was better under Woodward and Murtough.
1. They have got rid of players not required and bought profiles for good fees over names - I suspect you preferred Murtough's method, overpay and not get rid of players?

2. That is your opinion that the most important appointment was the manager.. go back to when INEOS took over and you will the see the most important things for fans was to get a structure. This is revisionism at the highest level.

I have clarified that I critised them because of ETH and yet you choose to ignore that and keep putting words in my mouth. Go on then.

 

[glazed]

There is something weird going on that i don't quite get. Ugarte and de Ligt don't seem to have what is needed for the style of play ETH is trying to achieve because neither are great passers as far as I know. It seems like Wilcox is trying to impose a different pattern of play, perhaps emboldened by doing so in the Cup Final. If so then it's only a matter of time before ETH is sacked.

 

[horsechoker]

There is something weird going on that i don't quite get. Ugarte and de Ligt don't seem to have what is needed for the style of play ETH is trying to achieve because neither are great passers as far as I know. It seems like Wilcox is trying to impose a different pattern of play, perhaps emboldened by doing so in the Cup Final. If so then it's only a matter of time before ETH is sacked.

I don't mind this approach as he we should no longer have a managed-centric philosophy but it remains to be seen if they will have the quality needed

 

[Plant0x84]

Patience for the new football structure? Sure, 100%. They are only on board a few months.

Patience for ETH? Nope, 0%. After 3 years and 600M, there is still no defence, midfield or attack. Last year we finished 8th and now we are 14th struggling to score goals and no style of play at all. What is there to be patience for? Patience until we are relegated and next year we get a new manager to fight promotion to PL?

How does this work though? The new structure have endorsed ETH, funded some of that £600m and assisted him in building a squad with no midfield and allegedly agreed upon a style of play that is limiting our attackers.
This is why I say this is year one of INEOS, not year 3 of ten Hag. They must all be judged collectively and we are only now 7 games in to their first league campaign.
The patience must be universal?

 

[meninred]

Anyone attending the meeting today ?