Club ownership | Senior management team talk

[Banana Republic]

A farce of an ownership. Sorry Ed, we love you, come back please.

How is it a farce when they have come to sort out an absolute sh1t show of a business.
Woodward put this club into a dire state financially and his masters let him, while they sat back and milked the dividends and watched the paper value of their club go up.

The losses mean we have very little headroom to sign new players, without selling first.
This summers transfer budget will mostly have to pay instalments on players we have already signed and who are already in the squad (or loaned out in Antony’s case).

.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Well no it's not a surprise to anyone with half a brain but the line last night was that we were "preparing for summer" and people had the idea that it meant we were going to spend like 200-300m.

Well they are never going to brief journalists that.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

If a player like Dorgu was signed in the Woodward era he would be on 100k.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

 

[Red in STL]

How is it a farce when they have come to sort out an absolute sh1t show of a business.
Woodward put this club into a dire state financially and his masters let him, while they sat back and milked the dividends and watched the paper value of their club go up.

The losses mean we have very little headroom to sign new players, without selling first.
This summers transfer budget will mostly have to pay instalments on players we have already signed and who are already in the squad (or loaned out in Antony’s case).

.

I think the sarcasm was lost on you there

 

[The Mitcher]

The same thing as we were doing, essentially, and doing wrong for a generation. Ashworth also wanted to hire a data company to do his job for him.

The error with Ashworth wasn't letting him go, it was hiring him in the first place.

The Glazers alone would have given him a decade to fail upwards in.



Most managers will formulate a base template which is tweaked within game.

ten Hag did not. He'd rigidly stick to formation during most matches, and substitutes would continue the process. Ruben Amorim is quite different.

Amorim's major problem is his template has not the staff to match. The club will have to recruit wisely for it to succeed, or we can only expect regressive and reactive football.

When has Amorim changed the formation in a match? He's changed personnel and done it mostly better than ETH but the system doesn't change.

 

[Cassidy]

Are people going to fall for more post window PR, I mean how many more times do they need to run the same script before...

 

[Cassidy]

When has Amorim changed the formation in a match? He's changed personnel and done it mostly better than ETH but the system doesn't change.

We played a back 4 at times in the last game

 

[The Mitcher]

We played a back 4 at times in the last game

I didn't see that happen at all.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

I'm happy to give INEOS plenty of time to sort the mess out, and obviously eager for it to work.

But I think it's fine to also critique which bits they've done well, and which seem poor choices. And while some are far too negative because they never wanted them, there's also others who take the defence too far and bat away any criticism. Which seems as stubborn as trying to bat away any criticism of the start of Hojlund and Zirkzee's United career just because we'd all like them to prove a success in the long run.

I know the world - and social media especially - tends to argue more from the extreme angles. Very staunch either way with little room for middle ground. And in keeping with that, this place tends to get an awful lot of that - some who refuse point blank to give any credit to someone they dislike; but, equally, those who, to counter that, seem to think acknowledging any negative is out of the equation as it might give carte blanche to the 'overly negative', and so bat away and mock even perfectly justifiable levels of concern or criticism.

That makes any meaningful debate on these issues difficult, as it just boils down to the two extremes when the real truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

The INEOS debate is, unsurprisingly, mostly running along those lines.

 

[Amir]

Are people going to fall for more post window PR, I mean how many more times do they need to run the same script before...

What script?

We've spent loads of money in the past, we had summers in which we made massive changes in the squad.

 

[Cassidy]

What script?

We've spent loads of money in the past, we had summers in which we made massive changes in the squad.

The one where the window closes and the PR immediately starts (this is not the first window where we shipped players out and failed to replace them whilst trying)
We have also had summers where we did not invest nearly enough by the way (which is where the PR starts)

 

[Tom Van Persie]

The one where the window closes and the PR immediately starts (this is not the first window where we shipped players out and failed to replace them whilst trying)

Jamie Jackson must not have received the memo then.

 

[Cassidy]

Jamie Jackson must not have received the memo then.

Yes PR does not mean every single journalist on the planet falls in line

 

[Amir]

The one where the window closes and the PR immediately starts (this is not the first window where we shipped players out and failed to replace them whilst trying)
We have also had summers where we did not invest nearly enough by the way (which is where the PR starts)

We had different summers, but INEOS invested plenty in the summer of 2024 and we always knew that the January 2025 window is going to be very tight. Even the options mentioned in the last few days for the striker's role were quite crap, including Tel.

I see no reason not to believe that INEOS intend to spend what they can this summer. They invested plenty in Amorim, what would be the point in not giving him the tools he needs?

 

[Cassidy]

We had different summers, but INEOS invested plenty in the summer of 2024 and we always knew that the January 2025 window is going to be very tight. Even the options mentioned in the last few days for the striker's role were quite crap, including Tel.

I see no reason not to believe that INEOS intend to spend what they can this summer. They invested plenty in Amorim, what would be the point in not giving him the tools he needs?

Like I said previously, every window this happens we have the same message put out as PR. Given INEOS don't own the club, and the club are still running the same playbook, I'll believe real change is here when I see it

 

[REDARMY45]

Jamie Jackson must not have received the memo then.

Jamie Jackson is a fecking bellend. I doubt he receives anything of anyone.

 

[REDARMY45]

It’s been a year since they’ve taken over and it’s mostly been a lot of bollocks. I’m like @Cassidy ill believe it when I see it and so far - I’ve not seen anything remotely encouraging.

 

[ChippyTea]

We had different summers, but INEOS invested plenty in the summer of 2024 and we always knew that the January 2025 window is going to be very tight. Even the options mentioned in the last few days for the striker's role were quite crap, including Tel.

I see no reason not to believe that INEOS intend to spend what they can this summer. They invested plenty in Amorim, what would be the point in not giving him the tools he needs?

But that summer spend was funded in part by roughly £90m worth of outgoings - the same will have to be said of this summer.

I also think supporters would be right to be cautious about selling proven talent like Garnacho and Mainoo when the "rebuild" carried out in 2024 has turned out to be a mess.

On your last question, I don't know - that is a huge question for Ratcliffe and co, and I don't think they have an answer.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Ineos gave up on the season sometimes in a October

They gave up on this season in June when they decided to keep ETH.

There's numerous reports that Ratcliffe wasn't happy at Ashworth's apparent inability to set up a coherent data analytics branch to our football operations.

They expected him to stand up an analytics department in five months?

 

[Tom Van Persie]

It was considered but United resisted. Remember Odion Ighalo and Wout Weghorst? Those signings screamed of a team who were panicking, and United, with their new-look hierarchy, are trying to avoid repeating the mistakes of the past; some of which they are still paying for.

While there has been no short-term fix for Amorim, the hope is that sticking to a disciplined approach this window will help them in the summer. They have also saved money by loaning out Marcus Rashford and Antony. In such a tight financial situation every little could help for the summer, with Amorim desperate to add to his squad after a quiet January.

https://archive.ph/o6VIC

 

[croadyman]

I truly believe that not getting 2 attacking players, even on loans, is a mistake that will cost us in the end. I understand the part of not buying ANY player if he is not the right fit, but I can not understand giving away Rashford and Entony and leaving yourself with Zirkzee, Amad, Garnacho and Hojlund as your attacking force until the end of the season.

We are in no men's land in the Premier League, have no way of catching the top 4, and we won't be relegated. However, we have to pull all our eggs in the Europa League basket as it's our way into the Champions League. If we don't qualify, this will have significant money ramifications in the summer. We are left to pray that none of our attacking players gets injured. We don't have Bruno replacement, we don't have Amad replacement.

Yeah if you lose three attackers on loan deals in two windows and don't sign at least one replacement loam then quite frankly it's negligent. That bench has looked threadbare at times already in terms of depth this season. Now we have lost another two from it.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

All the optimism when they took over football side of things and appointed "best in class" football people are truly gone. It seems they are no better than the 3 idiots Ed, Arnold and Murtough.

 

[Insanity]

https://archive.ph/o6VIC

Bullshit PR guff. We were trying to get a attacking player on loan, not buy one. How adversely could have that affected our ability in the summer?

Now our ineptness and lack of planning is being spun as some kind of genius master plan for the summer.

- What about this season?
- We willingly gave up on a chance to win Europa and/or the FA cup by leaving ourselves short in attack?
- How will this master-plan work if Villa don't buy Rashford and Antony's loan spell doesn't impress anyone enough to buy him?
- How will the master-plan work without money from playing in a European competition?

The fact of the matter is that Jim and his merry band of bozos are as stupid as the previous idiots. There is nothing to suggest from his previous football investments that this man has the nous or the finances to get a football club to the top. He basically acquiesced to the Glazers demand of only a partial stake and was more than happy to see his name next to a big brand. He is playing it by the ear rather than devising a clear road map to get us where we belong. Everything he has done so far from keeping ETH to getting him more Dutch/Ajax players to firing him to hiring Dan and then firing him to hiring Ruben to leaving him short in this transfer window is irrefutable evidence that he is a fecking clown.

 

[UnitedSofa]

Bullshit PR guff. We were trying to get a attacking player on loan, not buy one. How adversely could have that affected our ability in the summer?

Now our ineptness and lack of planning is being spun as some kind of genius master plan for the summer.

- What about this season?
- We willingly gave up on a chance to win Europa and/or the FA cup by leaving ourselves short in attack?
- How will this master-plan work if Villa don't buy Rashford and Antony's loan spell doesn't impress anyone enough to buy him?
- How will the master-plan work without money from playing in a European competition?

The fact of the matter is that Jim and his merry band of bozos are as stupid as the previous idiots. There is nothing to suggest from his previous football investments that this man has the nous or the finances to get a football club to the top. He basically acquiesced to the Glazers demand of only a partial stake and was more than happy to see his name next to a big brand. He is playing it by the ear rather than devising a clear road map to get us where we belong. Everything he has done so far from keeping ETH to getting him more Dutch/Ajax players to firing him to hiring Dan and then firing him to hiring Ruben to leaving him short in this transfer window is irrefutable evidence that he is a fecking clown.

I'm so sick of every single piece of good news or anything that has a positive slant to it be passed off as "PR GUFF" it's getting so tiresome and boring to read, like we as fans are in some sort of perpetual cycle of wanting to be shit. Like can we not have some good news for once and look on the positive side of things.

I'm so tired of being forced to sit and wallow about how shit we are. Yes we're in a dire dire situation right now, but I'm not going to constantly wallow in self pity every time some good news comes out about the club.

Do you honestly believe that Man Utd have every single journalist on every single media outlet on their payroll? Do you know how much unnecessary money they'd be pissing up the wall for that. How much time and effort it would take for the PR department to come up with stories each week. It's literally so unnecessary and something INEOS, with all the cuts their making, simply wouldn't allow. INEOS doesn't seem to give a shit about PR.

It's time we cut out this conspiracy theory bullshit and focus on the team.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

I can't believe that the Ineos Team is only in charge of football side less than 1 year and already made so many major mistakes that all the hope are gone. Never in my wildest dream that they could be worse than Ed, Arnold and Murtough.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Do you honestly believe that Man Utd have every single journalist on every single media outlet on their payroll? Do you know how much unnecessary money they'd be pissing up the wall for that. How much time and effort it would take for the PR department to come up with stories each week. It's literally so unnecessary and something INEOS, with all the cuts their making, simply wouldn't allow. INEOS doesn't seem to give a shit about PR.

It's time we cut out this conspiracy theory bullshit and focus on the team.

Who said anything about journalists being on the club's payroll? You're making shit up.

Are you aware of the very real concept of "access journalism"?

 

[UnitedSofa]

I can't believe that the Ineos Team is only in charge of football side less than 1 year and already made so many major mistakes that all the hope are gone. Never in my wildest dream that they could be worse than Ed, Arnold and Murtough.

But they haven't?

Got rid of many many big earners is just one, that many wanted.

 

[Insanity]

I'm so sick of every single piece of good news or anything that has a positive slant to it be passed off as "PR GUFF" it's getting so tiresome and boring to read, like we as fans are in some sort of perpetual cycle of wanting to be shit. Like can we not have some good news for once and look on the positive side of things.

I'm so tired of being forced to sit and wallow about how shit we are. Yes we're in a dire dire situation right now, but I'm not going to constantly wallow in self pity every time some good news comes out about the club.

Do you honestly believe that Man Utd have every single journalist on every single media outlet on their payroll? Do you know how much unnecessary money they'd be pissing up the wall for that. How much time and effort it would take for the PR department to come up with stories each week. It's literally so unnecessary and something INEOS, with all the cuts their making, simply wouldn't allow. INEOS doesn't seem to give a shit about PR.

It's time we cut out this conspiracy theory bullshit and focus on the team.

Sorry, if it sickens and bores you. You don't have to listen to or read it. That's a choice you are making. Make better choices.

 

[REDARMY45]

Bullshit PR guff. We were trying to get a attacking player on loan, not buy one. How adversely could have that affected our ability in the summer?

Now our ineptness and lack of planning is being spun as some kind of genius master plan for the summer.

- What about this season?
- We willingly gave up on a chance to win Europa and/or the FA cup by leaving ourselves short in attack?
- How will this master-plan work if Villa don't buy Rashford and Antony's loan spell doesn't impress anyone enough to buy him?
- How will the master-plan work without money from playing in a European competition?

The fact of the matter is that Jim and his merry band of bozos are as stupid as the previous idiots. There is nothing to suggest from his previous football investments that this man has the nous or the finances to get a football club to the top. He basically acquiesced to the Glazers demand of only a partial stake and was more than happy to see his name next to a big brand. He is playing it by the ear rather than devising a clear road map to get us where we belong. Everything he has done so far from keeping ETH to getting him more Dutch/Ajax players to firing him to hiring Dan and then firing him to hiring Ruben to leaving him short in this transfer window is irrefutable evidence that he is a fecking clown.

Coupled with the fact that league is not over yet. Not by a long stretch. We could find ourselves in a scrap to stay up seeing as goals win you games and we just don’t score any. It’s not inconceivable that in April time we’re in a real dog fight and I don’t trust these players’ grit and determination to get out of it. Probably being alarmist but stranger things have happened and we could end up in a perfect storm come May.

 

[croadyman]

It's his fault we are in this mess along with his university cronies.

Yeah couldn't have put it any better, can't we ban Jackson from this thread for his constant digs at Utd and all round simping for City all the time. God knows why channels like Paddock have him on there for interviews as well.

 

[UnitedSofa]

Who said anything about journalists being on the club's payroll? You're making shit up.

Are you aware of the very real concept of "access journalism"?

No self respecting journalist is fluffing up situations to create 'good news' for fear of not having access.

PR Guff implies that it's being pushed by a PR company.

If anything BAD news would generate more traffic than good.

 

[UnitedSofa]

Sorry, if it sickens and bores you. You don't have to listen to or read it. That's a choice you are making. Make better choices.

Oh goodness gracious.

So I can't respond to it because I don't like it? Good grief.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

But they haven't?

Got rid of many many big earners is just one, that many wanted.

It's all well and good getting rid of deadwood.
How about the reinforcement we need?
As things stands, it looks like a cost cutting exercise with shoe strings budget to weaken the squad.

 

[UnitedSofa]

It's all well and good getting rid of deadwood.
How about the reinforcement we need?
As things stands, it looks like a cost cutting exercise with shoe strings budget to weaken the squad.

I'd rather not panic buy and waste money now so we can spend more in the summer. We aren't getting europe in the league, maybe winning EL.

But the team is good enough to stay up (Can't believe I'm writing that in all honesty)

 

[Drainy]

Bullshit PR guff. We were trying to get a attacking player on loan, not buy one. How adversely could have that affected our ability in the summer?

Now our ineptness and lack of planning is being spun as some kind of genius master plan for the summer.

- What about this season?
- We willingly gave up on a chance to win Europa and/or the FA cup by leaving ourselves short in attack?
- How will this master-plan work if Villa don't buy Rashford and Antony's loan spell doesn't impress anyone enough to buy him?
- How will the master-plan work without money from playing in a European competition?

The fact of the matter is that Jim and his merry band of bozos are as stupid as the previous idiots. There is nothing to suggest from his previous football investments that this man has the nous or the finances to get a football club to the top. He basically acquiesced to the Glazers demand of only a partial stake and was more than happy to see his name next to a big brand. He is playing it by the ear rather than devising a clear road map to get us where we belong. Everything he has done so far from keeping ETH to getting him more Dutch/Ajax players to firing him to hiring Dan and then firing him to hiring Ruben to leaving him short in this transfer window is irrefutable evidence that he is a fecking clown.

PR won't work for long of it is bullshit since annual accounts get published.

You can see how much the club has lost over the last three years, and we know how much cash is needed for payments on transfers next summer so cash will be tight.

 

[Insanity]

Coupled with the fact that league is not over yet. Not by a long stretch. We could find ourselves in a scrap to stay up seeing as goals win you games and we just don’t score any. It’s not inconceivable that in April time we’re in a real dog fight and I don’t trust these players’ grit and determination to get out of it. Probably being alarmist but stranger things have happened and we could end up in a perfect storm come May.

All this "leaves them better for the summer" is conjecture based on a whole lot of pieces falling into place, while giving up any chance to get the best out of the current season. It's fecking horseshit being fed to the fans taking them as idiots.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

No self respecting journalist is fluffing up situations to create 'good news' for fear of not having access.

PR Guff implies that it's being pushed by a PR company.

If anything BAD news would generate more traffic than good.

Nobody is "creating" news. They're receiving briefs from their contacts at the club and reporting on them.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

I'd rather not panic buy and waste money now so we can spend more in the summer. We aren't getting europe in the league, maybe winning EL.

But the team is good enough to stay up (Can't believe I'm writing that in all honesty)

That's the new Ineos' way of running the club on show strings budget and spin PR for positivity.

Even the blind can see that we need attacker and midfielder. We don't need to panic buy, at the very least loan? There were decent players going on loan the last window. Meanwhile, we are stuck with Hojlund and Zirkzee.

 

[UnitedSofa]

Nobody is "creating" news. They're receiving briefs from their contacts at the club and reporting on them.

Well of course, but I seriously doubt it's all done for "PR". -

It's almost like nothing can be positive about the club, because fans will just go "yeah right!, We're shit!" and will perpetually believe that.