Well, Jim got his ideal window in many ways. Minimal outlay, able to whittle down the (playing) staff to the bare minimum and save money on wages.
Club ownership | Senior management team talk
- Thread starter golden_blunder
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A proper Tory window that.
Ratcliffe said he would rather walk to the right decision than run to the wrong one, so we walk.
He has been so incredible, frugal and efficient with operations. Proper tough corporate maestro. Next move is to cancel summer party, if we have one, and save even more $$$.
Isn't this what we should all want to see? Or do you want him to ignore the financial issues and allow us to go bankrupt?
There is a middle ground - it wasn't "Get rid of all these players or go bankrupt"
I mean we litearlly spent £25m on a wing back in this window.
I think you’re getting your time lines wrong as I clearly said Berrada pulled rank and brought in Amorim, I never said anything about Berrada and ETH’s contract as like I also said that was Brailsford who pushed for ETH to stay for which ETH had the extra year on his contract activated then given £180 million to spend that summer.
What I said which is fact and confirmed by Amorim himself is Berrada flew straight out to Portugal to bring Amorim in and told Amorim that it was now or never to join United, Berrada pulled rank and convinced Ineos that Amorim should be brought in over Ashworth’s choices of Howe or Frank who were who Ashworth saw as perfect to lay the foundations of our long term set way of playing.
You’re more than welcome to go back and read my post and see for yourself what I said and see the timelines I said are completely correct but reality is Berrada had no right to bring in anyone on the footballing side as that was Ashworth's role whereas Berrada is basically in the role Woodward and Arnold were in and we all went ballistic over those two making footballing decisions that they had no right too.
What was said by The Athletic hinted at a power struggle and since then with everything that’s been said it looks like Ashworth left because he was undermined and the two biggest decisions in his short run at United in keeping or firing ETH and bringing in his successor were taken away from him and done by Brailsford (ETH) and Berrada (Amorim) whilst Wilcox benefited from Ashworth leaving as he’s taken on a lot of Ashworth’s job whilst having been friends with Berrada since their time at City.
The whole point of building a structure was for footballing people to run things on the pitch and the likes of Berrada, Brailsford and Blanc running things off the pitch but yet again we’ve allowed non footballing people to make footballing decisions yet people seem to be blind to it because it’s now Ineos doing it rather than the parasites before them, Woodward received death threats and mobs at his house for being inept and making decisions he wasn’t qualified for.
I’m not saying Ashworth was the saviour of the club but he was brought in to do what we’d all be saying was needed for a very long time in having a preferred tactical set up and formation, an identity, a style of play and that would be used throughout from the first team down to the academy whilst the scouting network and recruitment team would identify and bring in players for the first team and fill the academies to fit.
ETH wasn’t going to do that but Brailsford pushed hard to keep him whilst Berrada knew Amorim is married to his set up but knew we didn’t have the money or players to fit, Ashworth wanted Frank or Howe because they fit our long term philosophy that Ashworth was going to implement and Ashworth was said to be against Amorim coming in because of the tactical differences but Berrada convinced Ineos and now he we are although I blame Ineos and Berrada and not Amorim.
Except, at the minute, Sunderland are far more fun to watch than United. I actually wouldn't mind some of their players.
My apologies on the Berrada + ETH bit.
That being said I don't think its accurate to claim he simply 'pulled rank' with an insinuation that it was without credit. The leaks of why Ashworth got sacked was there, and it didn't read well for him. I'm not saying they are telling the full story as it probably came from the club which is one side of the story - but it reads as though there was a duplication of duties between Ashworth-Wilcox-Berrada and the decision was made to cut the former. His suggestions were uninspiring.
What I will also say is its their first season and they've opted to rip everything out, so its not going to be pretty reading until after the summer window.
We will find out in the summer but all the talk so far reminds me of a typical CEO of any British company coming out with classic lines; economic situation of the company bad, hiring freeze, no pay rises, sacking high earners and then records profits siphoned at the top.
Edit: In this case profits probably will go to stadium construction.
Edit: In this case profits probably will go to stadium construction.
I truly believe that not getting 2 attacking players, even on loans, is a mistake that will cost us in the end. I understand the part of not buying ANY player if he is not the right fit, but I can not understand giving away Rashford and Entony and leaving yourself with Zirkzee, Amad, Garnacho and Hojlund as your attacking force until the end of the season.
We are in no men's land in the Premier League, have no way of catching the top 4, and we won't be relegated. However, we have to pull all our eggs in the Europa League basket as it's our way into the Champions League. If we don't qualify, this will have significant money ramifications in the summer. We are left to pray that none of our attacking players gets injured. We don't have Bruno replacement, we don't have Amad replacement.
We are in no men's land in the Premier League, have no way of catching the top 4, and we won't be relegated. However, we have to pull all our eggs in the Europa League basket as it's our way into the Champions League. If we don't qualify, this will have significant money ramifications in the summer. We are left to pray that none of our attacking players gets injured. We don't have Bruno replacement, we don't have Amad replacement.
we seem walking towards the relegation zone
If it takes him 27 years to get things right, it's still better to walk.
There's numerous reports that Ratcliffe wasn't happy at Ashworth's apparent inability to set up a coherent data analytics branch to our football operations.
I agree with the overall point you're making that we need football people to run things and not executives. That being said I'm glad we've got Amorim he's by far the most likeable coach we've had since Fergie for me.
Ineos were very clear when they publicly stated that Ashworth was in charge of the footballing department and was best in class in field so everyone on the football side including Wilcox and the head coach reported to Ashworth and all decisions on the footballing side were Ashworth’s to make the call on.
There is no confusion in what was publicly said or the role that Ashworth was coming in for, if there was any confusion it was more on what Wilcox would do as Technical Director based on the confusion on the title and role Fletcher had when he was given the same title.
Berrada’s role is that of our CEO so it’s the role that Woodward and Arnold were in previously so Berrada had no right to push hard for Amorim and convince Ineos that Amorim is who we should bring in, that was Ashworth’s role and it’s very obvious that all the leaks in the wake of Ashworth leaving were from the club to back Berrada and Amorim.
There is no other way you can term it other than Brailsford (who is a cycling coach) pulled rank over Ashworth to keep ETH then Berrada pulled rank over Ashworth to bring in Amorim, neither Brailsford or Berrada should have been making footballing decisions over Ashworth seeing as 1. They’re not footballing men and 2. It wasn’t their job to do so.
It just smacks of a power struggle and we’ve repeated the same mistakes of the past in allowing CEO’s, directors and executives to make the footballing decisions then wonder why it’s all gone spectacularly wrong. Maybe Frank or Howe aren’t the most inspiring choices or hipster choices but Ashworth obviously wanted us to walk before we could run and both men are highly rated and experienced in the PL.
Let’s just say Ashworth wanted United’s tactical set up to be 4-3-3 with attacking full backs, a midfield of a ball winner, a deep lying playmaker and an attacking midfielder with two wingers and a centre forward up top then bringing a head coach in who plays that way to coach the squad makes sense and then that is implemented throughout the whole club
It’s been reported a lot that Ashworth was against Amorim coming in because of his tactical set up and us not having the players for it to work let alone the money to bring players in so Berrada and Ineos would also have known this too, Amorim is clearly a great coach and demands hard work but Ineos have repeated the mistakes of the past in allowing everything on the pitch to be decided by the head coach and footballing decisions made by non footballing people although I pray Amorim gets it right soon and works out.
Forced to walk after running in the wrong direction during a vital summer transfer window and start of this season, where millions have been unnecessarily wasted - to such an extent that we can barely afford to buy players in the summer window without the sale of some of our best players.
Berrarda should not be hiring managers. And if Ashworth had his way Howe or Frank would have this team in much better shape. Maybe united needed an intermediate manager who knows the prem to get the club on the right footing again before going for the hollywood manager 3 years down the line when the squad has a foundation to push on.
I'm still wondering how did they end up with Amorim mid season when they knew he doesn't have his type of players.
Amorim has been playing 343 for ages now and he has never changed . So it's not like he is flexible and will change . Knowing that how the hell did they think he would be a right fit ?
This squad is suitable for a 4 man defence. Ashworth was probably right . Guess we backed the wrong horse.
Amorim has been playing 343 for ages now and he has never changed . So it's not like he is flexible and will change . Knowing that how the hell did they think he would be a right fit ?
This squad is suitable for a 4 man defence. Ashworth was probably right . Guess we backed the wrong horse.
An absolute shambles from top to bottom. I'm still going to see how it pans out with Amorim, but I'm getting sick of the club hiring systems managers who are married to a particular style and are too bloody stubborn. We were supposed to have some kind of "game model" a "philosophy" that was going to be implemented from the top to the first team and youth teams. Yet we've never been told what this game model is and what type of managers and players it needs. Sounds like there never was a game model because either they never thought of one or couldn't agree to one.
The same thing as we were doing, essentially, and doing wrong for a generation. Ashworth also wanted to hire a data company to do his job for him.
The error with Ashworth wasn't letting him go, it was hiring him in the first place.
The Glazers alone would have given him a decade to fail upwards in.
Most managers will formulate a base template which is tweaked within game.
ten Hag did not. He'd rigidly stick to formation during most matches, and substitutes would continue the process. Ruben Amorim is quite different.
Amorim's major problem is his template has not the staff to match. The club will have to recruit wisely for it to succeed, or we can only expect regressive and reactive football.
So is that a branch of INEOS or all of it?
INEOS Hygenics is one of 30 companies in the INEOS Group.
They make hand sanitizer products, mostly for supermarket chains and the NHS.
They make hand sanitizer products, mostly for supermarket chains and the NHS.
Wonder how much he will get for it.
A few bills I’d say, £1bn maybe 2bn
Not that I know anything about that industry mind you
Setting up the disappointment already. Remember after a shit window the Glazers used to put out that a big summer was coming? We don't even get that anymore
If he plans to turn united into Brighton to make profits. Yes, it makes sense. But big clubs where you aspire to win big trophies every year are not investments friendly.
Exactly and it’s what my thoughts are as even though Amorim is very clearly an outstanding coach Berrada going all out for him when he had no right was massively wrong and just smacks of an unqualified non footballing person going with a hipster choice without any long term vision
As said it’s on Berrada as he pulled rank on Ashworth and convinced Ineos to go with Amorim over Ashworth’s choices even though they all knew they didn’t have the players to fit the system Amorim is married to and didn’t have the money to bring in players to fit either but as Amorim said himself he was told now or never by Berrada even though he wanted to stay at Sporting until the summer.
With no money available Ashworth suggested RVN or Potter as an interim until the end of the season and then going with Howe or Frank once it was agreed by all that Tuchel was a wrong fit personality wise. Ashworth was brought in to run the football department so choose a long term tactical set up and ‘United way’ of playing which would then be played throughout each level of the club and decide a coach to coach that system but first Brailsford then secondly Berrada pulled rank and Ashworth mutually agreed to leave as he’d been made redundant job wise by non footballing people making the decisions he was brought in to make.
It’s not exactly a surprise is it? The finances are publicly available and the club has very little money, alongside huge bills to pay for existing transfers.
It's his fault we are in this mess along with his university cronies.
Why? So he can finish the job and bury the club once and for all?
A few bills I’d say, £1bn maybe 2bn
Not that I know anything about that industry mind you
Way off.
One business analyst website values that company at around £140m.
Small change in the INEOS empire.
.
I get they don’t want to waste money but surely you have to bring in a loan if 2 forwards leave?
Come the summer we lose Lindelof and Evans. Martinez now has a long term injury again. Thats 1 or 2 CBs before you consider how rubbish Maguire is.
Shaw is never available and Malacia is expected to leave. We need a LWB.
Eriksen is out of contract. We want Casemiro gone. We were already short in CM so that’s at least 2 CM to come in.
We definitely need a CF, probably 2 with either Hojlund or Zirkzee sold.
I don’t think Onana is good enough and we don’t have natural 10s either.
At the very least we need 1 CB, 1 LWB, 1 CM, 1 AM and 1 CF. Buying a CF is the most expensive position to replace. We also have many youngsters in the team and experience comes at a cost.
Where is the money to pay for this new set of players we desperately need?
Come the summer we lose Lindelof and Evans. Martinez now has a long term injury again. Thats 1 or 2 CBs before you consider how rubbish Maguire is.
Shaw is never available and Malacia is expected to leave. We need a LWB.
Eriksen is out of contract. We want Casemiro gone. We were already short in CM so that’s at least 2 CM to come in.
We definitely need a CF, probably 2 with either Hojlund or Zirkzee sold.
I don’t think Onana is good enough and we don’t have natural 10s either.
At the very least we need 1 CB, 1 LWB, 1 CM, 1 AM and 1 CF. Buying a CF is the most expensive position to replace. We also have many youngsters in the team and experience comes at a cost.
Where is the money to pay for this new set of players we desperately need?
Well no it's not a surprise to anyone with half a brain but the line last night was that we were "preparing for summer" and people had the idea that it meant we were going to spend like 200-300m.
Yep they should be briefing the journalists that we have a £200M war chest like good ol' Ed used to do.
Pretty incredible when NOT cutting the budget for disabled fans is seen as a victory
What profits? That's one of the reasons we're in the brown stuff, we don't have profits, we have losses