Climate Change | UN Report: Code Red for humanity

Cheimoon said:
To add my own bit of gloom on this particular (I also agree about the future of my kids btw): with these ultra-intense heat waves we've seen in western Canada/northwestern USA and in southwestern USA recently, and also in Europe in recent years (was it two years ago now?), I feel like I'm seeing the likely future cause of death of a lot of us (me included; I can't stand the heat) - cause this heat is really hard on the elderly.
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Let's look at the bright side we're only a couple of generations away from a known 3000-1 asteroid collision. Not great odds considering the impact.

I reckon you'll almost have a bigger public appetite to spend unlimited funds to resolve that threat than runaway climate change which is now almost certain and way worse.
 
We need a world government that overrides any single government to stand a chance against the great filter, can't see that ever happening though. Worldwide legislation is essential.
 
luke511 said:
We need a world government that overrides any single government to stand a chance against the great filter, can't see that ever happening though. Worldwide legislation is essential.
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Any time I’ve done a thought experiment of sorts on this, it will require a level of cooperation we haven’t seen before for a good stretch of time. That’s why we need to put the financial incentives at the head of our argument for living in an environmentally responsible manner, as those in power will inevitably follow the money.

One example is coal power being phased out in some places, not out of any noble values, but because it became less profitable or the pollution was so bad it was disrupting business as was the case in some of China’s great cities.
 
It’s tragic when you think of the £Trillions upon £Trillions the world leading Nations pump into Military funding when what’s really crying out is that sort of funding going towards a cause that will make our race live in a healthier world, we are so divided it’s no wonder we are going at a snails pace with something more important than any threats we face
 
Cheimoon said:
To add my own bit of gloom on this particular (I also agree about the future of my kids btw): with these ultra-intense heat waves we've seen in western Canada/northwestern USA and in southwestern USA recently, and also in Europe in recent years (was it two years ago now?), I feel like I'm seeing the likely future cause of death of a lot of us (me included; I can't stand the heat) - cause this heat is really hard on the elderly.
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It certainly is gloomy

and although more and more people are becoming aware of the situation, there’s far too many that still don’t care are don’t believe the scale of the crisis or that it’s even a crisis

this is why we are getting radical groups like XR (Extinction Rebellion) who are fighting for a great cause……but going entirely the wrong way about it and losing any interest to the general public because of their mostly moronic actions

what the right message is I have no idea, leaving it to the worlds Governments….HA it’s all business money and power with them and any action will of course take a lifetime, time we don’t have to lose

so it’s a very…..well…..we are screwed situation really

bleak but does anyone really believe the US, China, Russia, UK, India, France etc etc would collaborate in a huge effort to tackle this? it’s incredibly unlikely

these Climate meeting they have are total bullshit and don’t produce the goods anywhere near the speed of which we need them
 
Maticmaker said:
Polluting the planet is easy to do, just the presence of humans ensures it, and the rate it develop's now is almost exponentially ('towards infinity.... and beyond)
Reversing pollution is almost impossible to achieve, too much damage already done, best we can hope for is to slow it down.... but that takes decision making at the highest level and of the highest order, in the shortest possible time, with a wholesale commitment from ever human on the planet now and for the next 30 years.
Somehow its not looking feasible... over to your Richard Branson, get us off this planet.... fast!
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Agree with all that. And that of The Liver Bird above.
I was listening to an eminent Climate Change scientist a few days ago. And she was talking about individuals energy consumption in highly developed countries. And that massive increase was stunning.
Notwithstanding that, we need to factor in the huge population increase. Most of which is happening in the less developed world.
But. Those less developed countries will inevitably become more developed.
And whatever you do, increased development leads directly to increased consumption.
And it is population increase that will swallow all the currently proposed reductions in CO2.

But the thing she said that surprised me was that none of the committments made at the last COP Meeting factored population increase.
They were in effect datumed at the point that the committment was made....
 
I don't think there's anything to suggest we've reached some kind of tipping point (beyond the possibility that we might plausibly have either delayed or straight up skipped the next glacial period), but it is definitely going to get worse before it gets better. The changing climate and the resource conflicts that are going to come as a result of it are going to create an increasing amount of refugees, primarily moving from the poor south to the rich north.

So while I reckon Norway is in possibly the best position to handle the world created by climate change (geography, wealth and societal stability), the political climate is going to be very rough. I suspect the kind of anti-immigration, populist, proto-fascist stuff we see today is just a taste of what the next century is going to bring.

Hopefully I'll be dead.
 
Lot of people seem to be confident that the worst of this will be in 30-40 years time, by which time they'll probably be dead, but I wonder if that's really the case. Surely the migrations and collapses in economies will take place long before certain places become uninhabitable.
 
Irwin99 said:
Lot of people seem to be confident that the worst of this will be in 30-40 years time, by which time they'll probably be dead, but I wonder if that's really the case. Surely the migrations and collapses in economies will take place long before certain places become uninhabitable.
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Once resources start running out, climate change won't be an issue, the conflict that will ensue won't be pretty. China has really been beefing up it's armed forces, with this in mind in my opinion.
 
I know this will sound a bit out of touch/selfish but as I get closer to retirement age I begin to think of places to live after I finish working here in the US.
So, I was looking up the climate change effects in the UK/Ireland and see that their winters should get wetter but the summers get warmer. That time frame given was 2030-2050. Does that sound right to ye?
In 2050 I won't be around but I hope to be in 2030....
 
utdalltheway said:
I know this will sound a bit out of touch/selfish but as I get closer to retirement age I begin to think of places to live after I finish working here in the US.
So, I was looking up the climate change effects in the UK/Ireland and see that their winters should get wetter but the summers get warmer. That time frame given was 2030-2050. Does that sound right to ye?
In 2050 I won't be around but I hope to be in 2030....
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Guarenteed Summers will get wetter in England. We are cursed for good weather during the Summer. This has been the most overcast June and July i can think of apart from maybe 2 days.
 
iammemphis said:
Guarenteed Summers will get wetter in England. We are cursed for good weather during the Summer. This has been the most overcast June and July i can think of apart from maybe 2 days.
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More overcast in England whilst the most similar climate here, in generic terms at least, which is around Seattle/Vancouver was setting high-temp levels daily.

This is stretching the comparison a bit because they’re obviously different environs, but I am using it for the sake of illustration of how things will change.
 
Wetter summers in the British Isles? Bloody hell, there’ll be even more flights to Spain. And the cycle will get worse.
 
Buster15 said:
Honestly. How can this be allowed to happen...
And just incase anyone has even the tiniest doubt that climate change is man made.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57839364
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Its……frightening, frankly

Apparently there are more pressing issues in the here and now, and that Climate change is Just a boring rambling that can wait

it can’t, we need to act in the here and now to insure that we have a more stable future

the ticking of the clock is getting very loud now, but the powers that be have their earphones in still
 
TheLiverBird said:
Its……frightening, frankly

Apparently there are more pressing issues in the here and now, and that Climate change is Just a boring rambling that can wait

it can’t, we need to act in the here and now to insure that we have a more stable future

the ticking of the clock is getting very loud now, but the powers that be have their earphones in still
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I am aware that the President of Brazil allows anyone to stake a claim on bits of the rainforest. Bad enough cutting down the trees. But to be encouraged to actually burn them, releasing all that stored carbon is criminal of the highest order.
I cannot see why the richest nations cannot 'buy' large sections of the rainforest and then protect it.

On a parallel note, I was disgusted to see the massive bonfires, containing thousands of wood pallets being burnt in N Ireland a few days ago as part of the annual parade celebrations.
So. Who are we to criticise Brazil.

With rank stupidly like this, what chance of containing climate change.
Very low at best.
 
Buster15 said:
With rank stupidly like this, what chance of containing climate change.
Very low at best.
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At the moment it would appear we cannot get all people to be vaccinated or wear masks in a pandemic , which is in the here and now, so what chance of any concerted (all in it together) action going forward on climate change issues?
TBH I don't think it is just stupidity as such, it is that part of the human psychology that is to do with us doing our own thing, regardless, just think of how many people genuinely believe when the see official signs, such as 'keep off the grass', 'no parking', etc. these rules do not apply to them. They don't just disobey they don't even think its meant for them, don't see the value, etc.!

For me this means that even if a 'world order' developed that could force all countries to 'tow the line,' etc. with their aims and objectives at a National level on consumption, energy usage, pollution, etc. how would this be enforced, with the proletariat, without a police state type 'stasi' operating in every street, ward, district etc. (brings a whole new meaning to Neighbourhood watch!).

I suppose the truth is a lot of people don't do 'the right thing' because it is the 'right thing', they have to be persuaded, coerced, frightened into things, but that only last so long as we saw in the first 'Lock-down', when it (appeared) the majority of people joined in and tried to do the right thing, but when it didn't work and other things started to affect their daily lives, things change, even threats of £10,000 fines did not deter people who saw their livelihoods being ruined.

I suppose the blunt truth is that perhaps that each generation does not really do things for the future, they do it for the here and now (except getting vaccinated and wearing masks), certainly not a future whose destiny is so uncertain for many reasons not just Climate change, (although most would agree that is the main thing) nothing can be taken for granted. Therefore the age old adage about in any society each generation tries to teach its children how to survive, it is something handed down like a baton, is beginning to fail; probably has already failed the current generation, and this perhaps going forward is the most scary thing of all for Parents/Grandparents.
How do you teach/prepare your children for a future you have no idea about?
 
Maticmaker said:
At the moment it would appear we cannot get all people to be vaccinated or wear masks in a pandemic , which is in the here and now, so what chance of any concerted (all in it together) action going forward on climate change issues?
TBH I don't think it is just stupidity as such, it is that part of the human psychology that is to do with us doing our own thing, regardless, just think of how many people genuinely believe when the see official signs, such as 'keep off the grass', 'no parking', etc. these rules do not apply to them. They don't just disobey they don't even think its meant for them, don't see the value, etc.!

For me this means that even if a 'world order' developed that could force all countries to 'tow the line,' etc. with their aims and objectives at a National level on consumption, energy usage, pollution, etc. how would this be enforced, with the proletariat, without a police state type 'stasi' operating in every street, ward, district etc. (brings a whole new meaning to Neighbourhood watch!).

I suppose the truth is a lot of people don't do 'the right thing' because it is the 'right thing', they have to be persuaded, coerced, frightened into things, but that only last so long as we saw in the first 'Lock-down', when it (appeared) the majority of people joined in and tried to do the right thing, but when it didn't work and other things started to affect their daily lives, things change, even threats of £10,000 fines did not deter people who saw their livelihoods being ruined.

I suppose the blunt truth is that perhaps that each generation does not really do things for the future, they do it for the here and now (except getting vaccinated and wearing masks), certainly not a future whose destiny is so uncertain for many reasons not just Climate change, (although most would agree that is the main thing) nothing can be taken for granted. Therefore the age old adage about in any society each generation tries to teach its children how to survive, it is something handed down like a baton, is beginning to fail; probably has already failed the current generation, and this perhaps going forward is the most scary thing of all for Parents/Grandparents.
How do you teach/prepare your children for a future you have no idea about?
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An interesting and sobering assessment, much of which I understand and agree with.
The freedoms you mention both at Nation and individual level is a huge barrier to the integrated approach needed to tackle climate change.
Essentially, we are in the lap of the gods.
A huge amount now rests on the forthcoming COP meeting in Glasgow.
Technology and innovation certainly can do much.
But in my view, much more has to be driven by us, the consumers. Because we create the market for change. It won't as you say happen naturally.
 
Maticmaker said:
At the moment it would appear we cannot get all people to be vaccinated or wear masks in a pandemic , which is in the here and now, so what chance of any concerted (all in it together) action going forward on climate change issues?
TBH I don't think it is just stupidity as such, it is that part of the human psychology that is to do with us doing our own thing, regardless, just think of how many people genuinely believe when the see official signs, such as 'keep off the grass', 'no parking', etc. these rules do not apply to them. They don't just disobey they don't even think its meant for them, don't see the value, etc.!

For me this means that even if a 'world order' developed that could force all countries to 'tow the line,' etc. with their aims and objectives at a National level on consumption, energy usage, pollution, etc. how would this be enforced, with the proletariat, without a police state type 'stasi' operating in every street, ward, district etc. (brings a whole new meaning to Neighbourhood watch!).

I suppose the truth is a lot of people don't do 'the right thing' because it is the 'right thing', they have to be persuaded, coerced, frightened into things, but that only last so long as we saw in the first 'Lock-down', when it (appeared) the majority of people joined in and tried to do the right thing, but when it didn't work and other things started to affect their daily lives, things change, even threats of £10,000 fines did not deter people who saw their livelihoods being ruined.

I suppose the blunt truth is that perhaps that each generation does not really do things for the future, they do it for the here and now (except getting vaccinated and wearing masks), certainly not a future whose destiny is so uncertain for many reasons not just Climate change, (although most would agree that is the main thing) nothing can be taken for granted. Therefore the age old adage about in any society each generation tries to teach its children how to survive, it is something handed down like a baton, is beginning to fail; probably has already failed the current generation, and this perhaps going forward is the most scary thing of all for Parents/Grandparents.
How do you teach/prepare your children for a future you have no idea about?
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Very true , good post.
 
TheLiverBird said:
It’s tragic when you think of the £Trillions upon £Trillions the world leading Nations pump into Military funding when what’s really crying out is that sort of funding going towards a cause that will make our race live in a healthier world, we are so divided it’s no wonder we are going at a snails pace with something more important than any threats we face
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You mustn’t have received the memo

all world military to turn into an Eco-force

they will now shoot you for bad recycling
 
I only come in here to see if Mark came back to post his backwards graphs.

Everything else is just too depressing to read.
 
On that note, I was thinking that it's been a while since I saw a denialist post here. I also don't see as much of that in the media now. I am not sure what timeframe I'm talking about exactly. 'A while' might be the past few weeks, 'now' might be the past half year or so. In any case, is that just my singular focus, or is there actually a shift in the narrative, and is denialism fading out? I was thinking it's at least a bit of the latter - which fits with @esmufc07's post on the previous page about oil companies now focusing their efforts on crippling legislation, more then fuelling denialism.

(It keeps amazing/abhorring me how companies like that can decide on these kinds of actions while being completely aware of the global climate situation and its long-term consequences. There should be laws where these people can be pursued for manslaughter. I mean, they fully know their actions will ultimately result in more deaths if they had their way, and yet they do it for short-term profits. How's that fundamentally different from any criminal shooting someone for their money?)
 
Cheimoon said:
On that note, I was thinking that it's been a while since I saw a denialist post here.
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Q: What's a denialist post?

Is it a post contradicting the idea that the world is coming to an apocalyptic end due to man-made climate change?

Since 1970 the world has been told it's heading for an eco-apocalypse 79 times. 48 of those predictions have now expired with the forecast apocalypse failing to happen. Not only failing to happen, but not even getting into first gear.

Does anyone else think eco doom-mongers are over-cooking their apocalypses?
 
Thanks @cafecillos...
Mark Pawelek said:
Q: What's a denialist post?

Is it a post contradicting the idea that the world is coming to an apocalyptic end due to man-made climate change?

Since 1970 the world has been told it's heading for an eco-apocalypse 79 times. 48 of those predictions have now expired with the forecast apocalypse failing to happen. Not only failing to happen, but not even getting into first gear.

Does anyone else think eco doom-mongers are over-cooking their apocalypses?
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A denialist post is a post by a climate change denialist, someone that denies the existence of anthrophogenic climate change - either all of climate change or that humanity caused it. Like you.

Who said something about the world coming to an apocalyptic end btw?
 
Mark Pawelek said:
Q: What's a denialist post?

Is it a post contradicting the idea that the world is coming to an apocalyptic end due to man-made climate change?

Since 1970 the world has been told it's heading for an eco-apocalypse 79 times. 48 of those predictions have now expired with the forecast apocalypse failing to happen. Not only failing to happen, but not even getting into first gear.

Does anyone else think eco doom-mongers are over-cooking their apocalypses?
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Oh, so because some predictions were wrong, all predictions were wrong. Got it. Some science disproven = all science worthless. You're so clever, possibly the cleverest person in the world.
 
Cheimoon said:
Thanks @cafecillos...

A denialist post is a post by a climate change denialist, someone that denies the existence of anthrophogenic climate change - either all of climate change or that humanity caused it. Like you.
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I know that anthropogenic climate change supporters believe in a greenhouse effect they say warms earth's surface by 32C, on average, above what it'd be without greenhouse gases in it's atmosphere. Where is the empirical validation of this claim? I want to believe. I really do. But I also want to see the evidence you, so clearly, believe in, which, for some reason, no one ever showed me. Instead they keep making fake predictions of eco-apocalypse, which never happen.

Cheimoon said:
Who said something about the world coming to an apocalyptic end btw?
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At least 79 people or groups made such claims. 31 of these apocalyptic predictions are still due. 4 of the apocalyptic predictions are by the IPCC. 3 of which are due; 1 expired without happening.

The definition of apocalyptic is in the paper I cited in my recent post. The full paper is easily found on the Internet by one skilled in the art of searching for such stuff.
 
Mark Pawelek said:
I know that anthropogenic climate change supporters believe in a greenhouse effect they say warms earth's surface by 32C, on average, above what it'd be without greenhouse gases in it's atmosphere. Where is the empirical validation of this claim? I want to believe. I really do. But I also want to see the evidence you, so clearly, believe in, which, for some reason, no one ever showed me. Instead they keep making fake predictions of eco-apocalypse, which never happen.
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By 32C? Where's this coming from?

At least 79 people or groups made such claims. 31 of these apocalyptic predictions are still due. 4 of the apocalyptic predictions are by the IPCC. 3 of which are due; 1 expired without happening.

The definition of apocalyptic is in the paper I cited in my recent post. The full paper is easily found on the Internet by one skilled in the art of searching for such stuff.
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I'm really not interested in discussing straw men. Without mitigation, climate change will lead to changes in the Earth's climate that will cause big difficulties for human communities. I don't care if that's called apocalyptic or may or may not have predicted it.
 
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Cheimoon said:
I'm really not interested in discussing straw men. Without mitigation, climate change will lead to changes in the Earth's climate that will cause big difficulties for human communities. I don't care if that's called apocalyptic or may or may not have predicted it.
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The rationale for mitigation are the doomsday scenarios which you're now claiming are strawmen.

I didn't write those doomsday scenarios. 4 were written by the IPCC. Do you think IPCC are writing strawmen arguments?
 
Oh Mark you silly sausage. :lol: I see you still flat out ignore and refuse to acknowledge when someone has called out one of your ridiculous and flat out incorrect claims. You are one of the cafes golden nuggets.
 
It’s actually very scary, especially the thought that it might be something that my kids (age 5 and 8) will have to live with in their lifetime.
 
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