More solar panels needed everywhere
Climate Change | UN Report: Code Red for humanity
- Thread starter Buster15
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That view makes you an idiotic climate change denier.
Stick to changing things in football.
Interesting source, by the way. Here's from the Wikipedia article on the author:
So no, @Buster15, I think it's safe to say Mark doesn't understand the word "empirical".
No, just both true. Socioeconomic circumstances, hygiene, and medicine have improved, and so humanity on average is much better off today than some centuries ago. (Despite this progress having affected regions of the Earth unequally.)
In the meantime, we have started impacting the Earth's climate in a way that, without mitigation and adaptation ASAP, changes currently underway will exacerbate and then endanger areas that are currently perfectly fine for habitation and agriculture.
Both true, no paradox in sight. Just different things. Not unrelated though, as industrialization is an important factor in the improvement of humanity's plight and in climate change. If you want to use a clever term, I'd go with irony.
Also, yes, the Little Ice Age also was very hard on humanity. But that one we didn't cause ourselves. (Except if reforestation in the Americas due to the decimation of Indigenous populations played an important role - which has been proposed.) One way or another, here also, the Little Ice Age and global warming can both be catastrophes.
(Yes, I know he's banned.)
I humbly apologise.
It’s depressing to see people in my area that don’t seem to care a jot about fuel efficiency for example. They’ll keep buying their F-150 trucks and large SUVs, not to mention all the muscle cars that substitute for a real dick.
I don’t people by and large will change their consumerism to help the planet.
I’ll do my little bit, but I haven’t gone full bore. I still drive a petrol/hybrid everyday.
My life and habits are basically unchanged and it’s probably because I’d feel I’m the only sucker trying to help.
I don’t people by and large will change their consumerism to help the planet.
I’ll do my little bit, but I haven’t gone full bore. I still drive a petrol/hybrid everyday.
My life and habits are basically unchanged and it’s probably because I’d feel I’m the only sucker trying to help.
Thought as much.
Well, that was brutal. Good work.
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No paradox, it's obvious. The richer we get, the safer we get... And the more resources we consume and co2 we emit in the process. Until the safety we buy becomes overwhelmed by the mess we've created.
You are right.
It is depressing. And so easy to feel, as I often do, rather annoyed at those who act as if they really don't care. And overwhelmed by the scale of man made climate change.
As someone recently said, humans have become conditioned to think only in the short term. And see climate change as over the horizon, or have zero interest in the future of humanity.
But what I am impressed with is that you don't think that way and you are trying to do your bit.
And remember, each and everyone of us doing their bit really does make a difference.
Just think of that young girl in Sweden. By doing something, Gretta has mobilised an army of young people who ARE determined to make us all take notice.
I was waiting outside the pharmacy yesterday. And the weather was quite warm. There were 2 cars parked with their engines running. Presumably for the air conditioning.
I got fed up and went up to one car. The lady opened her window.
So I asked her why she had the engine running. Expecting some abuse, she apologised and switched it off. So I did the same to the next car and the man switched his engine off and gave me the thumbs up. He then opened his window and said that he just wasn't thinking, which was fair enough.
Just a tiny thing. But as they say, every little helps.
That's awesome that you did that. I think this all the time but have never had the courage to go up to people and talk to them about it. It's rampant over here - especially in winter, when people often leave their running for a few minutes in the morning to warm it up before they go in... (Which is actually bad for your engine, which wasn't designed for running while stationary, and highly inefficient, cause the heating works much better while driving.)
I also do my little thing by having a hybrid, installing a better roof, and so on. Raising awareness is next-level stuff though. I keep telling myself I should get off my butt and get active, but I haven't made it beyond posting on this forum yet...
You might be surprised that a few people might just read your post and they themselves might take that first small step.
To be perfectly honest, I was nervous. But the 2 people were even older than me. My wife would have gone mad had she seen me...
I should try this at my daughters' school. I'm on the school council and there's even a 'no idling' sign in the parking lot, so lots of context to step up.
No, I don't think they will either. I also don't get the trend for older people to get bigger and bigger cars in the UK. Seems like once you hit 60 around here, you're buying that massive Range Rover, despite having absolutely no need for it, not even kids to sit in the back. Add that to that same boomer generation going on multiple overseas holidays as they have so much spare cash floating about, and they are leaving us in the shit, knowing they will likely be dead before it all hits the fan.
I've done this sometimes, but often pretend that I had been the victim of a fine for sitting running the engine in my car. They thank me and switch off! I changed my tactic after getting into inevitable arguments when I asked people to do it for the good of the environment.I should try this at my daughters' school. I'm on the school council and there's even a 'no idling' sign in the parking lot, so lots of context to step up.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking, I can just refer to the sign and the health of everyone's kids walking next to idling cars, right in their emissions. And that's also important, but it does kinda erode the actual message I'd be trying to convey...
I should try this at my daughters' school. I'm on the school council and there's even a 'no idling' sign in the parking lot, so lots of context to step up.
Sounds like the perfect opportunity. And hopefully some of the parents would benefit from your inputs. And their children will as well.
And what better reason is there.
None, but drivers - like many people - can get very antagonistic if someone challenges their behaviour in any way.
It's a bad Canadian habit that goes back to when engines had carburetors, which did need to warm up a bit.
What do you guys think about electric car prices? I feel like one has to have around top 15% income to be able to finance such a car without financially neglecting other sectors in your life. It'll be a huge deal if the prices were same or at least around conventional car prices. Also, especially in germany, german car companies have to up their game. We're a car industry and export our stuff into the whole world, many people will only buy brand X. If they started producing electric cars for a reasonable price while still keeping a comparable level to conventional cars, we could see an incredible jump in e-mobility. Hopefully the EU really pushes hard enough to ban new fuel driven cars by 2030. If they don't want to change by themselves and play their part in this crisis, they have to be forced. They surely have the abilities.
Or may be it is the creation of a single world govt which is the great filter.
Not only is the cost of the car prohibitive, but most people simply don't have the ability to charge an electric vehicle from their homes. Many people in the UK live in houses like mine, which are either terraces or semi-detatched which pretty much open out onto a street. We don't have the luxury of a driveway, let alone a garage with a charging point.
Then you have to consider the environmental cost of producing all those cars, and all those batteries, and scrapping the billions of petrol cars we currently rely on. That's before thinking about how our outdated power infrastructure can handle potentially 30m or more people trying to charge a vehicle every day.
UK power infrastructure isn't particularly outdated tbf. We can handle an awful lot more electric cars than we currently have, not least because they're often charged overnight when demand is generally low but the wind is still blowing and atoms are still splitting.
The environmental cost of producing those cars is nothing compared to the environmental cost of staying on petrol forever. It's not like all petrol cars will be immediately scrapped. Even if there wasn't any transition to electric, new cars would have to be built. The right move will simply be to mandate that those cars are electric.
At least in Norway I don't think there's any particular cost increase in electric cars, unless you're going for a Tesla or the new Audi or whatever. There are plenty of cheaper models. And here you can save quite a lot on charging over pumping.
I agree with much of that. To be fair, it'd have been far easier if governments had put a cap on emissions and fuel milage, so we didn't see so many unnecessarily large cars being driven by individuals who simply do not need them, but like the luxury.
I'd like to see figures that prove your idea that the energy and emissions caused by the production of a new electric car is less than running the average petrol car for a year or so. I'd hope its true, but frankly I've no idea.
It definitely won't even out in a year, but this is very much a long-term thing.
I think it's something people need to be able to consider. I have bought my first ever car as a 40 year old, almost entirely due to the pandemic putting me off a weekly 30 mile round trip on trams and trains. I'd like to know whether keeping hold of it for a few more years is better or worse for the environment than buying a new electric car. Otherwise the change is potentially making things worse.
Electric cars will do nothing of note for the environment, anyone with common sense knows what is going to happen. Once they are established, the gimmicks, the weight and the battery capacities will continue to grow to reach competitive advantage ("our model can do 1000 miles with a single charge and is stacked with 5000 seperate computers than can cook you meal while auto-driving"), which negates all the theoretical advantages of current "environmental showcase" models like an ID.3 (which is the equal of a 3L VW Lupo aka no one ever bought it).
That's how a consume-oriented economy works. Products need to be produced and sold non-stop. New products need to up the previous product so the economy continues to grow. Today you would be ecstatic about 800 km range with an electric car. In 20 years 1 ton batteries in 3.5 ton cars that facilitate 2k km could and most likely will be the norm and outclass current fossil fuel cars in terms of environmental polution by far.
That's how a consume-oriented economy works. Products need to be produced and sold non-stop. New products need to up the previous product so the economy continues to grow. Today you would be ecstatic about 800 km range with an electric car. In 20 years 1 ton batteries in 3.5 ton cars that facilitate 2k km could and most likely will be the norm and outclass current fossil fuel cars in terms of environmental polution by far.
That's not common sense, that's uninformed cynicism.
If only there were some institution that could influence what companies produce and sell according to the needs and ethics of the society they exist in, codified in some kind of enforceable framework…
I guess it’s just simpler to just give in to some imaginary sense of inevitability. Great way to convince yourself you’re free to do whatever the feck you want. Then when those institutions step in to implement changes you can complain they’re stealing your freedom too. Win-win, if you’re that way inclined.
Prices are dropping quickly right now, aren't they? At least from what I'm reading, they're expecting parity before too long. Another thing to consider is that electric cars are cheaper in the long run, not just because of gas/charging costs, but also because electric cars have far fewer moving parts and hence maintenance costs are far lower. The problem, of course, is that the temporary extra cost (as long as it's there) has to be paid upfront - which is where I guess financing your car makes sense.
Maybe there should be a thread about global warming and climate change (which we surely except by now) and a separate thread about the lack of/panicked decisions we are making to combat it?
Or maybe we should make this thread more brexity
Or maybe we should make this thread more brexity
I feel like this thread can just develop into the latter. Global warming is well established. Apart from new findings that close knowledge gaps, tweak the models, and update predictions, there isn't too much left to discuss in terms of the science. Plus mitigation/adaptation measures lead back to the science anyway, as it has to be calculated what difference the measures make and how that affects models and predictions.
We'll never reverse climate change, you can sign as many European or global agreements as you like but change will never happen. Has anything made a difference yet apart from seeing cleaner air in lockdown 1?
And the depressing thing was that even after that drastic impact on our normal behaviour, emissions barely declined.