Gibson was a part of the 2005-06 first team squad and made his senior debut the month before Keane left United. The two would have been around each other on the training pitch but seeing as they never actually played a match together perhaps it wasn't the best example on my part, thank you for pointing it out. The point remains there had been an overall lowering of standards in the squad and team at that time.
Clearing up some myths about Roy Keane
- Thread starter gav81
- Start date
Gibson was a part of the 2005-06 first team squad and made his senior debut the month before Keane left United. The two would have been around each other on the training pitch but seeing as they never actually played a match together perhaps it wasn't the best example on my part, thank you for pointing it out. The point remains there had been an overall lowering of standards in the squad and team at that time.
Oh Jeez, that sounds like an extended version of van Gaal times and the rest of what you described in your post sounds bloody awful too: waiting to be successful, a huge rebuild, shipping out heroes and years later we're back where we should have been had we got it right in the first place. I just hope we get it right sooner rather than later.
What you seem to imply is that we did most things wrong between Busby and Fergie – and then finally got it right by going for Busby MkII (which is the ideal recipe according to you – going for someone who resembles a successful predecessor as much as possible).
In reality, however, we did much right during those years. Docherty built a very good – and entertaining – team that never peaked properly before he was sacked. Under Big Ron we had a team that was very close to something: The very season before Fergie took over, United were yet another Robbo injury off mounting a serious title challenge in a very strong top flight. And the same vintage went toe-to-toe with the best sides in Europe in the old CWC.
There were ups and downs between Busby and Fergie, not a continuous string of bad moves and poor seasons. We hired poorly and we hired well. Neither Docherty nor Atkinson was miles off.
For your argument to work we have to buy two notions: 1) Fergie was successful at United because he resembled Busby (the fact – disputable in itself – that he did so was a crucial part of the equation) and 2) Keane is Fergie MkII. Many people won't buy either notion. They'll say (and I would agree) 1) that Fergie was successful at United because he was a great manager who was given the time he needed to get the job done and 2) that Keane hasn't done anything to properly indicate, never mind prove, that he's Fergie MkII. Pointing out that they are similar in some respects proves nothing.
I'm sure he must've been struggling to put food on the table. You've gone beyond ridiculous now.
Spot on.
Slightly off topic. Apologies. But I think that if Big Ron was given the time he would have gotten us over the hump. I loved the way we played under him and was gutted when he was replaced, or am I looking at that era thru rose coloured glasses
. You seem like a person who's knows his Utd. Just interested to hear your opinion?
Slightly off topic. Apologies. But I think that if Big Ron was given the time he would have gotten us over the hump. I loved the way we played under him and was gutted when he was replaced, or am I looking at that era thru rose coloured glasses
You seem like a person who's knows his Utd. Just interested to hear your opinion?
Nothing but speculation but I think perhaps Big Ron had run his course: He lost the momentum, along with the team as such, after the failed '86 campaign. No surprise, really: Started the season by winning ten on the trot, looked like he had found the right formula – but ended up 4th. That's not easy to take – and hard to bounce back from.
What Fergie brought, more than anything else, was the ability to build squads: He was better at that than anyone – and it was the backbone of his mastery of the league. Big Ron was more about getting an XI to click, I reckon – and like you say, we played well under him, very much United style football (as many will see it, at least), but it was perhaps too dependent on momentum and flow. And Robbo.
I think the best way to sum him up, from my point of view anyway, a monumental player for United who had harsh words to say about everyone at times, but sometimes it needs just that to get people going, he was happy to be painted as the bad guy as long as United were winning. He made a few mistakes, yes, but someone as influential as him deserves a bit of leeway.
I don't think you've cleared your first "myth" very well. You say the MUTV interview was not a problem but then say it was the final nail in the coffin. I drifted away after that.
I can't best judge the club's decisions between the Busby and Fergie eras as I wasn't around to see it. I don't know, for example, the managerial candidates available, how our teams played or what was going on behind the scenes, so I can't argue too much with what you have said – perhaps we did the best we could at that time and weren't miles off.
But it wasn't good enough, because what I do know is the history/record books show Docherty's United were relegated to Division 2 and finished 6th in his last season and that Atkinson made some big money signings, including a British transfer record for Robson, yet still placed only 4th in three consecutive seasons, and I can find little to suggest either manager was a great match to Busby.
I think that is a fair summary. I would respond: -
1) But what made Ferguson a great manager? When we look into that, we see a number of the most important traits which made Ferguson great are shared with Busby. And why were Busby and Ferguson given time to get the job done more so than Docherty or Atkinson? The reason is because they were more successful than those managers even in their early years at the club.
2) It proves Ferguson and Keane are similar in some respects. That is, in respect of the traits which defined Ferguson: -
Control and Discipline
Hunger and a Winning Mentality
Inspiration and Motivation
Fight and Aggression
Respect and Fear
High Standards
Opportunities to Youth
Attacking Football
Hunger and a Winning Mentality
Inspiration and Motivation
Fight and Aggression
Respect and Fear
High Standards
Opportunities to Youth
Attacking Football
There is a long list of examples and player testimony which demonstrate Keane as a match. Further than that, the only way to prove he is Fergie MkII would be to give Keane the opportunity.
Yeah, reading what I wrote again, I didn't structure it very well. The point I was trying to make is that Keane wasn't pushed out the door for criticising his team mates, he was pushed out the door for tearing into Ferguson and Quieroz. Thank you for the feedback, I might go back and edit the post.
Whilst I have the opportunity to discuss Keane here I'd like to bring a tie-in to today's game...
The tactics Jose employed in the first half were awful, cowardly even. In the moment following kick-off the only player to really advance was Zlatan and the rest of the team took a step back as though afraid to venture into City's half. As expected, the game plan was to keep the team compact, disrupt City, rely on a piece of individual skill to nick a goal and then defend it - it's what Jose does (and I can link to a forum post where I predicted exactly that and what the outcome of it would be before the game).
Then the second half Jose shocked me in the most pleasant way - he went for it. We pressed the ball, we pushed up the pitch, we played with pace. It was exciting, entertaining, end to end football, for the first time in years like watching the United of Ferguson. I was bouncing; so fired up for us - fecking hell, so we can still play like that!
Gary Neville described it well in his commentary during the second half when he said, "It's completely different to the start of the game where Jose was thinking counter-attack; now he's thinking goal."
How does this tie-in with Keane? His approach, record and comments indicate he would play that way not only on the occasion when we are chasing a game but for the full 90 minutes and Fergie time too. I would bloody love it, what say you?
The tactics Jose employed in the first half were awful, cowardly even. In the moment following kick-off the only player to really advance was Zlatan and the rest of the team took a step back as though afraid to venture into City's half. As expected, the game plan was to keep the team compact, disrupt City, rely on a piece of individual skill to nick a goal and then defend it - it's what Jose does (and I can link to a forum post where I predicted exactly that and what the outcome of it would be before the game).
Then the second half Jose shocked me in the most pleasant way - he went for it. We pressed the ball, we pushed up the pitch, we played with pace. It was exciting, entertaining, end to end football, for the first time in years like watching the United of Ferguson. I was bouncing; so fired up for us - fecking hell, so we can still play like that!
Gary Neville described it well in his commentary during the second half when he said, "It's completely different to the start of the game where Jose was thinking counter-attack; now he's thinking goal."
How does this tie-in with Keane? His approach, record and comments indicate he would play that way not only on the occasion when we are chasing a game but for the full 90 minutes and Fergie time too. I would bloody love it, what say you?
I went back and read it all again and you've put in some great work well structured and thought out. Just that one little gripe I had but in the big scheme of things not a problem I can understand more what you were trying to argue now you have explained. Cheers nice one!
Some of the knee jerk and hysteria on the other threads wind me the hell up. This is almost becoming a peaceful place to have a good debate. Need to expand the thread a bit tho!!! Cough cough!
I have to agree that I was suprised at our approach in the first half. I thought we would be all over them and try to stop them playing.
The second half was a complete transformation. It was indeed unlike any Man Utd side we have seen for at least 3 years. We actually went for it! I thought at times we lacked a little guile, but this is a team that adapting to a new players, system and (more importantly) mind set. Rome wasn't built in a day.
Without a doubt we have to play three in midfield when we play against better teams. I thought that at times we were outnumbered in there.
I don't know if Roy would have done it differently but I bet Mourinho will have learnt from that and is making adjustments as we speak. If he had to be ruthless he will. Again maybe a trait Roy and him share too.
I have to agree that I was suprised at our approach in the first half. I thought we would be all over them and try to stop them playing.
The second half was a complete transformation. It was indeed unlike any Man Utd side we have seen for at least 3 years. We actually went for it! I thought at times we lacked a little guile, but this is a team that adapting to a new players, system and (more importantly) mind set. Rome wasn't built in a day.
Without a doubt we have to play three in midfield when we play against better teams. I thought that at times we were outnumbered in there.
I don't know if Roy would have done it differently but I bet Mourinho will have learnt from that and is making adjustments as we speak. If he had to be ruthless he will. Again maybe a trait Roy and him share too.
Welcome to the Roy Keane peace and relaxation thread
I wasn't surprised at the first half – it was Jose all over – the same way he setup his Porto, Chelsea, Inter and Madrid in the big games. It's the same against weaker opposition to a lesser extent – always defence-first.What depresses me is that had City not scored, we would have played the whole game that way. Or had we come back and got in front he would have reverted straight back to defence-first.
It has been witnessed and noted many times: -
“His team is boring when, in my opinion, the players he has deserve much better. Mourinho deserves his negative label because of the calculated way he makes Chelsea play.
“I find it astonishing, because his players are capable of brilliant football, as we saw on Wednesday for a brief moment when they were losing 1-0 at Leicester and were suddenly forced to put their foot on the accelerator.
“You could see their hunger to attack and the joy that playing like that brought to the players. They loved it. They were sparkling. Then, as soon as Chelsea were winning 2-1, Mourinho wanted to bring on Kurt Zouma, the defensive midfielder, to keep everything close up.
“When Zouma was waiting to come on, Chelsea scored a third goal, yet still the change was made to seal the victory. Why on earth did Mourinho do that when it was clear that his players wanted to keep attacking and demolish Leicester?
“It is because Mourinho hasn’t changed. He has forever got his hand on the handbrake.”
~Rudd Gullit
It is not United's style to have their hand on the handbrake and it is one of my major hangups about Jose, without which, this thread would not exist.
Keane in contrast is known to encourage a more positive, unrestrained, attacking style.
In his book Keane talks about his Sunderland side losing 4-0 to a Ronaldo inspired United at the Stadium of Light. He notes that is because he setup with the attitude, “Let's have a go at them” which left his team “a bit open”. Obviously it didn't work out on that occasion due to the mismatch in quality of the United/Sunderland players, but it shows his approach, and it fits United.
“On my first day of training, he (Keane) gave me an absolute rollocking for playing an easy square ball instead of looking to do something positive. I saw that day why United were winners and why Roy was at the heart of it.”
~Rio Ferdinand
“It is like the football I have been playing coming through the youths and reserves at United. The boss wants us to play good football and he believes we can kill teams off by doing that. You can see where some of his influences are. It is an enjoyable brand of football.”
~Danny Simpson (Sunderland)
~Rio Ferdinand
“It is like the football I have been playing coming through the youths and reserves at United. The boss wants us to play good football and he believes we can kill teams off by doing that. You can see where some of his influences are. It is an enjoyable brand of football.”
~Danny Simpson (Sunderland)
As Keane has said since taking up management, “You want your team to play like you.”
Anyone wish we had attacked City from the kick off yesterday?
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Welcome to the Roy Keane peace and relaxation thread
I wasn't surprised at the first half – it was Jose all over – the same way he setup his Porto, Chelsea, Inter and Madrid in the big games. It's the same against weaker opposition to a lesser extent – always defence-first.What depresses me is that had City not scored, we would have played the whole game that way. Or had we come back and got in front he would have reverted straight back to defence-first.
It has been witnessed and noted many times: -
“His team is boring when, in my opinion, the players he has deserve much better. Mourinho deserves his negative label because of the calculated way he makes Chelsea play.
“I find it astonishing, because his players are capable of brilliant football, as we saw on Wednesday for a brief moment when they were losing 1-0 at Leicester and were suddenly forced to put their foot on the accelerator.
“You could see their hunger to attack and the joy that playing like that brought to the players. They loved it. They were sparkling. Then, as soon as Chelsea were winning 2-1, Mourinho wanted to bring on Kurt Zouma, the defensive midfielder, to keep everything close up.
“When Zouma was waiting to come on, Chelsea scored a third goal, yet still the change was made to seal the victory. Why on earth did Mourinho do that when it was clear that his players wanted to keep attacking and demolish Leicester?
“It is because Mourinho hasn’t changed. He has forever got his hand on the handbrake.”
~Rudd Gullit
It is not United's style to have their hand on the handbrake and it is one of my major hangups about Jose, without which, this thread would not exist.
Keane in contrast is known to encourage a more positive, unrestrained, attacking style.
In his book Keane talks about his Sunderland side losing 4-0 to a Ronaldo inspired United at the Stadium of Light. He notes that is because he setup with the attitude, “Let's have a go at them” which left his team “a bit open”. Obviously it didn't work out on that occasion due to the mismatch in quality of the United/Sunderland players, but it shows his approach, and it fits United.
“On my first day of training, he (Keane) gave me an absolute rollocking for playing an easy square ball instead of looking to do something positive. I saw that day why United were winners and why Roy was at the heart of it.”
~Rio Ferdinand
“It is like the football I have been playing coming through the youths and reserves at United. The boss wants us to play good football and he believes we can kill teams off by doing that. You can see where some of his influences are. It is an enjoyable brand of football.”
~Danny Simpson (Sunderland)
As Keane has said since taking up management, “You want your team to play like you.”
Anyone wish we had attacked City from the kick off yesterday?
There's a reason Jose has managed champions league winning sides, and why Roy Keane managed the likes of Ipswich and Sunderland.
At the beginning of 2002 there was a reason van Gaal had managed a Champions League winning side, and why Mourinho managed the likes of Uniao de Leiria.
There are many reasons but the first is “opportunity”.
Anyway, Jose is a fantastic manager, his record is evidence of that. All that I'm saying is that he is defensive-minded in contrast to Keane who is attack-minded. Not that it's a competition; Jose has the job and Keane is one for the future.
Van Gaal was proven and there was a reason he was getting top jobs. Same with Jose, he did well and got better jobs.
Keane didn't.
It's nothing to do with opportunity. Ferguson retired in 1974 and started managing with East Stirling, one of the very worst teams in Scotland. It took him 12 solid years of massive over-achievement with St Mirren and Aberdeen before he became a contender for the biggest jobs in football. He created the opportunity by performing to such a high standard over so many years.
Same for Van Gaal and Mourinho. They rapidly delivered on their managerial potential, were tactically years ahead of the competition, and were fast-tracked to the top accordingly.
The constant between the three of them isn't character but their significant over-achievement as managers relative to the resources they had at their disposal. Keane's done alright in the top seat but there's a reason he hasn't created the same opportunities for himself that those three have done.
In 2011 Capello was proven and there was a reason he was getting top jobs. Same with Ancelotti, he did well and got better jobs.
Conte didn’t.
(In 2011 before he had the opportunity to win three consecutive Serie A titles, lead Italy and move to Chelsea).
The thing is, perhaps you are judging managers purely on their record as though it’s the end of their career, rather than on factors like character, style and potential which needs opportunity to be fulfilled.
That is certainly setting the bar high with three of the most successful managers in football history. Obviously not every manager will emulate the careers of those three, though the fact van Gaal is one of the examples proves that a good record per se does not mean anything as to their suitability for United.
Then what about managers who are seen as some of the best in the game now, yet did not have a stellar start to their careers: Conte, Simeone, Pochettino. Or managers who skipped the ladder altogether: Guardiola, Zidane, de Boer. All were 'given a break' to reach their current levels.
Keane has an early career to match any of them (prior to their getting an opportunity at a big club): 10 years management experience at Championship, Premier League and International level, during which time he has won a league title, secured Premier League status, reached a cup semi-final and knockout round of Euro 2016 as Ireland overachieved in victories over Germany and Italy.
All that and Keane is still a spring chicken in managerial terms. He has the ability and experience. In my opinion he only now needs the opportunity to show what he can do at the very top level where his style is best suited.
I find the similarities between the early careers of Ferguson and Keane fascinating: -
“The first thing that struck me was the look he had in his eye,” said former East Stirlingshire midfielder Bobby McCulley. “Just one look from those eyes put the fear of death into you. He terrified us. Nobody could have guessed back then that he would go on and achieve what he has, but he oozed a steely determination to succeed.
It was another great Scottish manager, Jock Stein, who advised Ferguson to leave East Stirlingshire after just four months to move to St Mirren, then ranked below East Stirlingshire in the league but considered a bigger club. While at Love Street, Ferguson took the Buddies from the lower half of the Second Division to the top flight, with the average age of his team just 19.
However, he was sacked from the position with the club’s chairman Willie Todd claiming that he had “no managerial ability.” An industrial tribunal later ruled that Ferguson’s “impatient energy and single-mindedness which contributed to his success as a team manager ultimately led to his dismissal.”
…
At Pittodrie, Ferguson was gaining a reputation as ‘Furious Fergie’. He fined forward John Hewitt for overtaking him on a public road and also kicked a tea urn at his players during a European match. When the Dons retained the Scottish Cup in 1984 with a win over Rangers, he criticised his players on television, saying that they had put in “a disgraceful performance”, a comment he later retracted.
Ferguson was asked to be part of the Scotland coaching set-up by his mentor Stein as they plotted a course to the 1986 FIFA World Cup Mexico™. But tragedy struck. When Scotland met Wales in a qualifying match in September 1985, Stein suffered a heart attack and died. Ferguson agreed to take charge and subsequently led the team to the finals which they exited at the group stage.
http://www.fifa.com/news/y=2013/m=11/news=the-enduring-success-sir-alex-2223829.html
It was another great Scottish manager, Jock Stein, who advised Ferguson to leave East Stirlingshire after just four months to move to St Mirren, then ranked below East Stirlingshire in the league but considered a bigger club. While at Love Street, Ferguson took the Buddies from the lower half of the Second Division to the top flight, with the average age of his team just 19.
However, he was sacked from the position with the club’s chairman Willie Todd claiming that he had “no managerial ability.” An industrial tribunal later ruled that Ferguson’s “impatient energy and single-mindedness which contributed to his success as a team manager ultimately led to his dismissal.”
…
At Pittodrie, Ferguson was gaining a reputation as ‘Furious Fergie’. He fined forward John Hewitt for overtaking him on a public road and also kicked a tea urn at his players during a European match. When the Dons retained the Scottish Cup in 1984 with a win over Rangers, he criticised his players on television, saying that they had put in “a disgraceful performance”, a comment he later retracted.
Ferguson was asked to be part of the Scotland coaching set-up by his mentor Stein as they plotted a course to the 1986 FIFA World Cup Mexico™. But tragedy struck. When Scotland met Wales in a qualifying match in September 1985, Stein suffered a heart attack and died. Ferguson agreed to take charge and subsequently led the team to the finals which they exited at the group stage.
http://www.fifa.com/news/y=2013/m=11/news=the-enduring-success-sir-alex-2223829.html
The only major contrast is that Ferguson struck gold with Aberdeen who were already one of the bigger clubs in a weak Scottish league and did a good job to raise them to the next level. Apart from that, Keane has followed closely in management style and career path: -
- I’m sure everyone can relate Keane to the reputation for fear and anger which Fergusion built.
- Ferguson was sacked from St Mirren, Keane was sacked from Ipswich.
- Ferguson took St Mirren from the lower half of the second division to the Scottish top flight, Keane took Sunderland from bottom of the Championship to the Premier League.
- Ferguson was set to take up a coaching role with Scotland, Keane has taken up a coaching role with Republic of Ireland.
- Both over a similar 10 year timeframe.
The time is right for Keane to be given a real opportunity at club level, if not now then over the next few seasons, perhaps after the 2018 World Cup.
They were one of the bigger clubs, but he had to break the stranglehold of Old Firm dominance. I don't think he struck gold by any means, I think he forged it.
Me too. The early careers are really good.
Then Ferguson became a master. Roy Keane will never ever win a title as manager . Two things. He's a bully and while played out very well on the pitch. He doesn't have that hey you're wife left you or your kids sick compassion.
Second. Back to the pitch Roy Keane is someone that would totally pick you up and if he thought you could say come on mate let's have them.
Ferguson picked you up when he you you couldn't and said her Lad. You have this go get them. Roy is your brother. Ferguson is your dad.
Then Ferguson became a master. Roy Keane will never ever win a title as manager . Two things. He's a bully and while played out very well on the pitch. He doesn't have that hey you're wife left you or your kids sick compassion.
Second. Back to the pitch Roy Keane is someone that would totally pick you up and if he thought you could say come on mate let's have them.
Ferguson picked you up when he you you couldn't and said her Lad. You have this go get them. Roy is your brother. Ferguson is your dad.
In the full sentence you quoted a part of I did say that Ferguson raised Aberdeen to the next level. There is no taking away from that Cup Winners Cup success. So why struck gold? Because Aberdeen were already a big club in a relatively weak league at a time when Rangers and Celtic took a dip. Didn't Dundee beat Rangers, Celtic and Ferguson's Aberdeen to the Scottish league title in the same period?
One myth that needs clearing up is how some people still think Keane's obvious managerial shortcomings are not down to him. Great player, distinctly mediocre manager.
Except he already has won the Championship with Sunderland along with the Championship 'Manager of the Year' award. In doing so, and including Sunderland's time in the Premier League, Keane finished above managers like Roberto Martinez and Roy Hodgson who then went on to manage Liverpool, Everton, England and Belgium. If they can do it then Keane is capable of at least that level.
A read of this thread shows that Keane certainly has a compassionate side. About the perception of him as a bully...
We had a manager in Ferguson who, amongst more derogatory terms, has been described as, “the biggest bully of his generation”. Not only did he bully opposition managers, referees and the press, but his own players. The players at Aberdeen lived in fear of Ferguson – there is even a story where Ferguson raged so much at one of his players for coming off injured, the same player punched him in the face, knocking Ferguson on his arse! Ferguson also reduced Cristiano Ronaldo to tears, gave Gary Neville sleepless nights and yelled in his players' faces (you've heard of the hairdryer treatment). Even David Beckham who admires Ferguson said, “I felt like I was being bullied” as his time at the club came to a close.
To anyone who would say, oh not Keane, he's a bully. Well fecking hell, we should never have hired Ferguson. See, the double-standards and biases when it comes to Keane are quite astounding, it's coming from somewhere and is part of what prompted me to start the thread. I think the root of it is in Keane's fallout with Ferguson.
I think one last myth-bust is in order: Keane is responsible for the feud with Ferguson.
Are you Irish
I'm English, my grandad was born in Bury, Greater Manchester, I have no Irish relations
I was born in billinge
Never should have hired Fergie? Double standard.
Never should have hired Fergie? Double standard.
I'm saying that if being a bully is a problem then we should not have appointed Ferguson.
You are right. There are four types of players that came under Fergie's bullying:
1. The meek, who just bowed their head. Like Scholes and Giggs.
2. The politicians, who backed down and focused on other projects. Like Becks.
3. The headstrong, who kept fighting. Like Keane.
4. Rooney. Who is the only player who actually won against Fergie.
In this forum, Fergie is like God, who never did anything wrong, and that's why you will find a lot of posters against Rooney and Keane. In their opinion, Fergie did everything for the best interests of Man Utd. In reality, Fergie was an egocentric who cared first and foremost about himself. This was proved by the horse situation, and by his son's dealings, and by appointing his friend Moyes. However, some posters have hard time to accept that the best manager of all time wasn't really a nice human being.
More that he brought unequaled success so can be forgiven for most of his human failings.
Oh ffs
Not this utter bollocks again.And anyone who is seriously arguing for Keane to manage Utd needs to seriously reconsider.
Being a bully isnt the issue. Not being a very good manager is.
Well honestly, I didn't come up with it sitting on the toilet. It wasn’t on a whim; there was a process and logic to it.
I noted the characteristics that best defined Ferguson as a manager. I entered those characteristics along with managerial candidates into a decision matrix grid… Pochettino, Simeone, Giggs, Mourinho, Moyes and van Gaal for comparison… but was disappointed to find that not one of them scored top marks as a match to Ferguson.
So I thought more, who might be similar to Ferguson? Who has that fire, winning mentality and similar approach? I remembered Keane certainly had it in his post match interviews. And he’s a qualified manager. Ok it's thinking 'outside the box' but let’s put Keane into the grid and take a look anyway, it can’t hurt…
Control and Discipline: Check
Hunger and a Winning Mentality: Check
Inspiration and Motivation: Check
Fight and Aggression: Check
Respect and Fear: Check
High Standards: Check
Opportunities to Youth: Check
Attacking Football: Check
Wow – Keane was the match I had been looking for.
I didn’t actually zip down the list going ‘check, check, check’ just like that. Because the truth is, at the time I didn’t know if Keane was a fit or not in some areas. I had to go away and research it through the use of testimony provided by his teammates, players, colleagues, managers and media commentary.
What I found is that of all the managerial candidates, Keane provides by far the best character match to Ferguson. I focused on the positive characteristics but it is also interesting to note that the two even share the same flaws.
So brilliant, but I was still thinking like a lot of supporters here. He’s been a disaster in management, hasn’t he? Yeah, that’s what I read. What’s he doing now anyway? Haven’t seen him since Villa. This isn't going to work. I'll just have a look into it...
Oh, he won the Championship and 'Manager of the Year' in his first season, I can't have been paying attention when that happened. He transformed the squad and secured Sunderland's Premier League status. He walked from the job; he wasn't sacked. Ok Ipswich not so good but again he started the transformation and got them to a cup semi-final. Looks like he's doing well at Ireland now. Damn they beat Germany the other week. That's interesting, he turned down job offers at Celtic, Newcastle and the Turkish top flight. All said, his record is not at all bad and nothing like I had read in the papers. How does it compare to other top managers? Conte only won Serie B before he headed to Juve... Simeone relegation battles... Pochettino bottom of la Liga with Espanyol... yeah Keane's record is quite favourable.
In all, Keane's characteristics, record and background are potential gold for a future United manager.
And the thing is, whilst there has been a lot of one-line opinion on this thread, no one has been able to make a reasoned argument which would lead me to reconsider. There has not been a single point raised which when put in context has made me think Keane wouldn’t be a great manager for United. The reason is that the argument for Keane is well founded.
Like this – another one-liner with nothing to back it up. But could you actually challenge anything in post #4 on this thread where I set out the truth about Keane's management record? Can you dispute that Keane's record is comparable to that of Conte before he got the Juve job? No – then the argument would switch to something like 'oh but he fell out with players' and I'd point out how it's not that many and even Ferguson and Mourinho fell out with players, and then it would go quiet...
So far as I'm concerned the argument for Keane is winning out over and over again. And if that is the case, who really needs to reconsider what the media have sold them here?
Oh ffs