That's not been proven yet. Typical really, throwing out one liners with no substance to the point you're trying to make. He did a fine job at Sunderland who were languishing 23rd when he took over before getting promoted that very season. Ipswich was a disaster although they found themselves at the bottom of the Championship a good 18 months after he left which would suggest it wasn't just the Keane factor. You tell me in what world is that enough evidence with which to form a strong opinion on any young manager?
Clearing up some myths about Roy Keane
- Thread starter gav81
- Start date
That's not been proven yet. Typical really, throwing out one liners with no substance to the point you're trying to make. He did a fine job at Sunderland who were languishing 23rd when he took over before getting promoted that very season. Ipswich was a disaster although they found themselves at the bottom of the Championship a good 18 months after he left which would suggest it wasn't just the Keane factor. You tell me in what world is that enough evidence with which to form a strong opinion on any young manager?
No it hasn't been proven, what has been proven is that so far, he is an ok manager. Since when is an ok or an unproven manager good enough for Manchester United?
This is so true. Funny how the poster you quoted is the one out of many who believed that there's no chance that Mourinho would be appointed as United's manager due to Fergie's influence and even said that he bets 20pounds that it'll not happen.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/bbc-united-hold-talks-with-mourinho.414325/page-254#post-19092664
As of right now there's more evidence pointing towards the fact that Keane isn't a good manager rather then the fact that he is.
Are we seriously debating if Keane is a top class manager and how he matches up to Fergie, arguably the greatest manager ever or at least one of the greatest manager ever?
The guy managed Sunderland and Ipswich, resigned from one job after it was plainly evident that he lost the players and and got fired from the other job. We have gone into some parallel universe that somehow his achievements in the first year of managing Sunderland alone is remembered and the rest forgotten. Come on, I love Keane and he's a red legend, but his current record indicates he's a terrible manager, no matter how many imaginary checklists we make and tick the list.
The guy managed Sunderland and Ipswich, resigned from one job after it was plainly evident that he lost the players and and got fired from the other job. We have gone into some parallel universe that somehow his achievements in the first year of managing Sunderland alone is remembered and the rest forgotten. Come on, I love Keane and he's a red legend, but his current record indicates he's a terrible manager, no matter how many imaginary checklists we make and tick the list.
Yeah, I was gonna donate 20 quid but, changed my mind. Funny how certain actions can make you change your mind. But yeah, course I believed it. Me and countless others
Aren't you the same person you pisses the bed when someone has a pop at Neville or Scholes or Giggs but, will quite happily throw snides at Keane and will openly do so?
"How dare you criticise players I like. Now shut up and listen to me give out about players I don't like!"
Double standards and all that
Now I know for sure this is a wind-up.
That second paragraph entirely describes you if interchange Scholes, Giggs and Gary with Keane.
Also not a surprise that you're all talk and no action. It's easy to talk nonsense but more difficult to follow that up. Next up keep that in mind.
Ha, considering you're staff on here, it's a perfect reason as to why I changed my mind.
And nope. You're there defending Neville's failure as a manager while you're here shooting Keane down for the same reason. It's hilarious
I'll say when Keane has made a twat of himself and have done. I'm not that biased.
Ha, considering you're staff on here, it's a perfect reason as to why I changed my mind.
And nope. You're there defending Neville's failure as a manager while you're here shooting Keane down for the same reason. It's hilarious
I'll say when Keane has made a twat of himself and have done. I'm not that biased.
Yes due to Rossi logic by saying Neville is failure is defending him and btw that's a great excuse for not sticking to your word and realising that you made a stupid statement in a fake and desperate act of bravado.
He got fired from IPSWICH TOWN lemish, ffs.
You know exactly the reasons why I didn't. But, if it actually softens your cough and pisses you off, I'll donate it when I get paid at the end of the month
No it doesn't pisses me off or something but you were making subtle digs towards me throughout the thread.
It's funny I've been called a Ferguson loyalist just because having the temerity to suggest that Roy Keane might not be the best thing since sliced bread.
You are not denigrating Keane by saying he's a terrible manager. He was terrible in both his jobs. He showed excellent promise and then combusted spectacularly since then. Keane will always be one of our best players ever but saying he's a future Manchester united manager is fecking madness. It's like RAWK deciding that Steven Gerrard will be a great Liverpool manager because he's ours la' kind of bullshit
Im assuming that's directed at someone else because I never called you a Fergie loyalist.
And it's not a subtle dig. It was quite a clear dig. The OP started a thread he thought was worthwhile and obviously something he wanted to discuss but, because you hate the player in question, you shot him down. And for someone who is supposed to be a mod on here, that's bullshit. It's not as if the OP is on a wum.
I also don't think Keane is the greatest thing since sliced bread. He's fecked up a number of times and done and said some stupid things, that have cost us and him a few times, in the past. I can see his mistakes and faults, just like I see Fergie's or Giggs' etc. People on here talking about "mental health" and been damaged mentally and saying he's an awful person etc. That's fecking overboard and I'll defend him on that
The only one player I'll blindly defend is Eric
I shot the OP down because he's bit of a Keano obsessive even in the newbie forums. That's why you will see scouts and mods who frequent the newbie forum laughing at this thread.
Personally I don't give a feck if you think I hate Keano or not just on the basis of me criticising the Irish God. Going by that logic, you must hate Ferguson, Giggs, Scholes and Neville given your posts during that LvG period.
Could never hate Fergie, Giggs or Scholes. I think Giggs is dull on TV and made a mistake with his coaching career so far and Scholes is a terrible pundit but, would never hate them
Neville though, the both of them, can do one after their remarks at the weekend. Pathetic it was
And Keane is not an Irish God. Like most successful Irish people, the country don't like them
What did they say?
Phil was apparently so excited at what City done to us that he couldn't stop smiling on the way home from the game and he was so excited to be watching "Pep" as he calls him.
Gary also didn't want the first half to end and that it was the best first half he has seen from anyone.
For two supposed reds, it was embarrassing
Eh, their jobs kind of require them to be impartial, anyone watching City in that first half could appreciate how good they were. What the hell is Phil supposed to call Pep?
Are you for real??
Imagine Steven Gerrard going on TV, as a pundit, and saying that about a United/Liverpool game or Giggs saying that ffs.
Of course, give City the credit they deserve but don't sit there tickling their balls.
"I don't want this first half to end" Ffs, give me strength
Are you for real??
Imagine Steven Gerrard going on TV, as a pundit, and saying that about a United/Liverpool game or Giggs saying that ffs.
Of course, give City the credit they deserve but don't sit there tickling their balls.
"I don't want this first half to end" Ffs, give me strength
Their first task as pundits on TV is to tout the quality of the EPL, not to defend the interests of some club.
Now I remember OP is the guy who was angling for Keane to be our next manager in the newbies and had huge posts with quotes and all. I see he's doing it again. Hilarious.
When did Phil Nev become a pundit? Jesus.
Anyways, it's their job to be impartial but that's funny from Gary Nev considering how blatantly biased he is to English players. Still, can't blame them.
You must hate Keane for you to say that.
Positive sentiment but I wouldn't worry or get embarrassed. They are professional footballers and have no allegiance to any fans or people who backed them for most of their careers. They want nothing more than being seen on 'the wave length' of the profession and looking for a job opportunity with the Citeh cnuts.
This will all change when we reach the attrition period of the season and little 'Pep' demands a winter break after some wobbly results.
If Gerrard did something like that as a pundit you would probably be praising him for showing a lack of bias and showing an appreciation of good football, and rightly so as it would be his job.Are you for real??
Imagine Steven Gerrard going on TV, as a pundit, and saying that about a United/Liverpool game or Giggs saying that ffs.
Of course, give City the credit they deserve but don't sit there tickling their balls.
"I don't want this first half to end" Ffs, give me strength
And he talks about sly digs ffs
Double standards.I never once wanted Keane as manager nor do I ever want him here as manager
OK. Anyway, the point is I don't understand how you can actually be so upset about former United players acknowledging that City played really well, when they did, and in particular for calling him Pep. I mean, even Fergie apparently sought 'Pep' out after the game, as they're known to get on well together, and greeted him with a big hug. Suppose he's showing a lack of loyalty or whatever too.
The cure is games without commentary - quite interesting how the game looks when the twats aren't there trying to shape opinion.
Imagine Gerrard, on commentary, waxing lyrical about Everton as they hammer Liverpool, saying he doesn't want it to end.
Imagine him saying he drove home smiling at what he just saw.
Come on, how can you not see the problem here and I'm not the only one that took issue with it. When they stuffed us 6-1, Fergie never had his head up their arse. Nor do I actually recall Neville, who was a pundit then, doing so either
Hugging someone after a game is irrelevant.
I choose not to get annoyed by it because there's no point. I don't believe either of them actually wanted to United to lose. The part about Phil saying he couldn't stop smiling on the way home is just laughable, such a stupid thing to say in any case, Phil has always struck as being a bit weird. Things like this just don't bother me.
Each to their own I suppose. Everyone is different.
I lost a lot of time for them after it, if I'm being honest
Mr stepover after all.
I don't follow. A decision matrix is just a tool for selecting the best option.
https://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newTED_03.htm
I didn't want half to end.
We just decreased the lead, and almost grabbed an equilizer. 2-3 more minutes, we'd do that as well!
We just decreased the lead, and almost grabbed an equilizer. 2-3 more minutes, we'd do that as well!
It looks like that is what we are debating but I would like to note I did not introduce it into the thread, others did and I responded. I actually intended the thread only to address perceptions about Keane. Thank you for your constructive comments above though, and actually thank you to everyone on the thread who has made constructive comments either for or against Keane.
The first issue you raise is that Keane resigned after it became, “plainly evident that he lost the players”.
But can you back up that opinion? Or is it based on Dwight Yorke sticking the knife in and media spin after Keane dropped him from the team? Which players had he lost? What, all of them? How many? Can you name them? What evidence is there for it?
How does it fit with evidence which contradicts it...
"I have a lot of respect for our old boss Roy.
"He was a nice man. He had a positive impact on every player at the club, he had an aura about him - he's Roy Keane!
"Someone like that is always going to be missed. My game improved under him and it continues to – hopefully."
~Grant Leadbitter
“But he took over the club when they were bottom of the Championship and then finished comfortably in the Premier League. That's not easy!
“I think sometimes his time at Sunderland is not given the credit for how well he actually did.
“People look at him and think he is an angry manager, but he gets the best out of players. He got the best out of me.
“I think he would be a great manager now given the opportunity, I really do think that.”
~Danny Higginbotham
"I have always said in the past, Roy has been a huge part of me getting my chance as a footballer." said the former England Under-21s captain.
"He gave me my debut at Sunderland and had a huge impact over my career. So I have got a lot of thanks to him for that.
"I can never really repay him for that, he started my career as a professional footballer, I learnt a lot from him while I was at Sunderland."
"To work under him was amazing."
~Jordan Henderson
“He wants better things all the time and he is a great manager to have around you. He is always trying to get the best out of everyone and produce a great team.
“As a player, it has got to come from yourself, a bit of belief and a bit of drive and a bit of will to win. But the manager has a big influence on that. The lads are oozing with confidence now.”
…
"Massive gratitude to Roy Keane for bringing me to such a fantastic football club. I have enjoyed every minute of it.”
~Phil Bardsley, Sunderland
“That season when I signed for Sunderland I only played about 10 games because I had a hairline fracture in my spine.
“Throughout that season I was very upset and I put on a lot of weight and I got bigger. But just before the end Roy took me into his office and we had a massive conversation.
“He inspired me to go away in the summer and come back in better shape than I had ever been in. I went and played very well the following season.
“He gave me some strong words of encouragement to go and do that and I will always appreciate it.
“A lot of people don’t know him on a personal level but he definitely has that side to him.”
~Kieran Richardson, Sunderland
"I loved my time at Sunderland."
~ Jonny Evans
“I had Roy as manager at Sunderland. That was a good experience, and I also knew him at Manchester United, when I was a youngster. He's got some very high standards. It'll be a good boost to the team, because he demands excellence and I think he'll get it.”
~Paul McShane on Keane's Republic of Ireland appointment
"I know how he liked things to run at Sunderland and if he was appointed then I'm sure he would do well and would be successful.
"He's hard but fair. What you see is really what you get. With Roy Keane, he was an aggressive player who wanted to win every match and from what I've seen he's exactly the same as a manager."
~Craig Gordon on Keane link with Celtic manager position
"At Sunderland, he signed me when I was there. I've worked with him a lot.
"He's been a bit more in the background with Ireland. He's someone I've always had a lot of respect for and I have always got on well with him.
"One of his best features when he was a manager was that you always knew where you stood with him.
"It wasn't the case that he would keep anyone on board, he told you how it was. For a young player coming into the game, I enjoyed working with him.”
~Anthony Stokes
In addition to the above we've got Daryl Murphy, Jack Colback, Carlos Edwards and David Healy who all followed Keane from Sunderland to Ipswich – it doesn't appear he had lost them.
So here is the complete list of players we can say with certainty Keane had not lost at the end of his time at Sunderland: -
- Craig Gordon
- Phil Bardsley
- Carlos Edwards
- Kieran Richardson
- Daryl Murphy
- Grant Leadbitter
- David Healy
- Paul McShane
- Jack Colback
- Anthony Stokes
- Jack Colback
- Jordan Henderson
Let's see the list of players we can say with certainty Keane had lost at the end of his time at Sunderland. If you can come close to the list above in the way of quoted testimony, I will accept your statement, “it was plainly evident that he lost the players”. Let's see if it can be supported.
So anyhow, why did Keane leave Sunderland?
It wasn't results. Whilst it is true that Sunderland were 18th in the league, they were level on points with Tottenham and Newcastle, only 2pts behind Man City and their points per game average was on target to secure their Premier League status. Even Ferguson accepted: -
“He is such an interesting character and did a decent job up there.”
~Ferguson on Keane leaving Sunderland
Nicky Butt alluded to the real reason: -
“He is the kind of person that wants to be the boss. He was starting to get questioned and there were things happening behind the scenes he wasn't happy with...”
~Nicky Butt on Keane leaving Sunderland
Earlier that season, Ellis Short had recently taken over as the club's major shareholder and was working to assume complete control. In December he questioned Keane's working arrangements – commuting to the club every day – and asked him to move up to Sunderland. Keane took offence that the arrangement of the past two and a half seasons was questioned and left the club. It appears Ellis Short is a difficult chairman to work under with Sunderland now on their eighth manager in eight years since Keane.
Good luck with that Moysie, haha.
Last edited: