City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches | Hearing begins 16th September 2024

Permananent expulsion from the league is the only punishment that fits if they are found guilty of even one charge of lying about where money has come from and/or inventing fake sponsors.

An example must be made. If the EFL will take them then they can reside there, but with no hope of ever being promoted back to the premier league even if they finish top of the Championship every single year
 
SuperiorXI said:
If the PL knowingly harbours cheating institutions it should considerably devalue the product. Long term it would be more advisable to at the very least severely punish City. No one would bother with a rigged sport because it takes the excitement away.
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It's not cheating in the traditional sense. The vast majority of people aren't really bothered about financial cheating anyway, it's not likely to change. Abramovich only became a problem when Russia became a problem, it's not like his ties to certain individuals weren't shady when he bought Chelsea. They were also happy to approve Thaksin buying City. Saudis were only problematic because of their ties to illegal streaming. That pretty much sums up the state of things. Not to mention the whole debacle with multi club ownerships models

I reckon they will be hit with something they can call unprecedented, so a larger points deduction than Everton and a massive fine. The points deduction will be reduced, but the fine won't be, and they will finish outside the top 4.
 
If they are found guilty of all 115, I'd strip them of all titles won during the period and give them a 20 point deduction for the start of next season.

They aint kicking them out of the league, no chance.

My guess is that it will end up with some kind of miss-trial on a technicality and they won't get punished at all.
 
croadyman said:
That would be a totally pathetic punishment,like the other poster says may as well just focus on a local grassroots side instead
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Oh I agree.

HTG said:
That’s exactly what I expect to happen. And people will just go on afterwards like they did before.
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Pretty much. I have been thinking if I would lose interest if/when they get "punished" like I described. I like to think so. But at the same time the PL has been such a big part of my life for 30 years that giving up on it sounds like an almost impossible task.

tomaldinho1 said:
Doubt it will even be that much. Will be like 10 points and £20m and still pundits can act like they’ve been hard done by and how it’s harsh etc.
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Fairly sure it'll be bigger than that. Big enough to make headlines like "historic punishment", but not quite big enough to hurt them long term.
 
Yagami said:
I don't think many will at all. The sport is too popular, and, outside of us United fans, do the majority really care about City's cheating? They're gaining new fans everyday, and, even on here, I see plenty of people preferring them to Arsenal.
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I know a number of fans of other clubs and whenever I bring it up they say that I need to let it go and they don't believe that City are as bad as I say they are.
 
Rob said:
Fairly sure it'll be bigger than that. Big enough to make headlines like "historic punishment", but not quite big enough to hurt them long term.
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If there's even a punishment at all.

They'd bite your hand off now if you offered them £100m to clear their name and validate the recent success, which is essentially what a fine would do.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
If there's even a punishment at all.

They'd bite your hand off now if you offered them £100m to clear their name and validate the recent success, which is essentially what a fine would do.
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This is my worry with it all.

The most likely outcomes seem to be no punishment at all, or some "unprecedented" fine or single-season points deduction that doesn't really do anything. Fine them £250 million or make them start a season on -40 points and it really doesn't affect them at all.
 
duffer said:
If they are found guilty of all 115, I'd strip them of all titles won during the period and give them a 20 point deduction for the start of next season.

They aint kicking them out of the league, no chance.

My guess is that it will end up with some kind of miss-trial on a technicality and they won't get punished at all.
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I'm definitely concerned they're going to bottle it or are being massively pressured by external parties. The knock-on ramifications for what they've done are absolutely colossal and it'd be the biggest scandal in football history really.

They absolutely deserve to be stripped of every single trophy won in this period, but I just cannot see that happening unfortunately. It's too messy for the PL, and Masters saying it will 'resolve itself' is fecking grim wording.
 
Alex99 said:
This is my worry with it all.

The most likely outcomes seem to be no punishment at all, or some "unprecedented" fine or single-season points deduction that doesn't really do anything. Fine them £250 million or make them start a season on -40 points and it really doesn't affect them at all.
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Nope. It needs to affect their previous 'success' because if it fecks up one season for them with a points deduction they're absolutely going to think it was worth it.
 
Solius said:
Nope. It needs to affect their previous 'success' because if it fecks up one season for them with a points deduction they're absolutely going to think it was worth it.
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Absolutely, which is also why I'm worried the most likely outcomes will be precisely that sort of shit.

To punish them properly means stripping them of everything and ousting the owners.
 
duffer said:
If they are found guilty of all 115, I'd strip them of all titles won during the period and give them a 20 point deduction for the start of next season.

They aint kicking them out of the league, no chance.

My guess is that it will end up with some kind of miss-trial on a technicality and they won't get punished at all.
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That was my initial feeling until they started deducting point off Everton and Forrest there’s no chance they get off on all 115 charges now they’d be a riot both from the clubs and the press

If these clubs are getting done on 1-2 charges it would be a mockery if City walk away from 115.
 
Alex99 said:
Absolutely, which is also why I'm worried the most likely outcomes will be precisely that sort of shit.

To punish them properly means stripping them of everything and ousting the owners.
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It's like finding out the guy who won the majority of the 100m races the last 15 years was doped up to his eyeballs and telling him he has to start the next race 20 meters behind. That kind of 'punishment' would be absolute bollocks and an utter cop out.
 
I think the footballing world collectively knows that their success is entirely hollow. No one gave a feck that they won the treble. I think City fans know it as well and I mean that sincerely. They might not say it outwardly or even openly admit it to themselves or each other but even subconsciously they'll know its all built on sand. Their treble celebrations were so subdued.
 
Alex99 said:
This is my worry with it all.

The most likely outcomes seem to be no punishment at all, or some "unprecedented" fine or single-season points deduction that doesn't really do anything. Fine them £250 million or make them start a season on -40 points and it really doesn't affect them at all.
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Exactly, I wonder if this is why it's taking so long. It seems like the evidence should be pretty clear cut guilty or not guilty, I get CFG are going to delay everything but some evidence must have been obtained by now and there must be an idea of guilt or not there. So maybe the delay isn't actually if they did it or not, it's now a free for all of very influential people with different interests trying to get the best 'deal' they can. The PL surely wants money + some action to signify i.e. stripped titles/demotion, the UAE don't want anything that negatively impacts their brand but don't really care about financial penalties, then the UK gov will be licking their lips as trying to help out the UAE for some favorable trade deals.
 
Solius said:
It's like finding out the guy who won the majority of the 100m races the last 15 years was doped up to his eyeballs and telling him he has to start the next race 20 meters behind. That kind of 'punishment' would be absolute bollocks and an utter cop out.
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Yeah, it'd make an absolute mockery of it, I just have no faith that it's going to be handled correctly. Just look at the Everton and Forest things. Everton admitted spending too much, the Premier League worked out a 10 point deduction, the independent body rejected their methods but then also worked out a 10 point deduction, Everton appealed, and now it's six points, for some reason. Forest admitted spending more over the cap than Everton, but were deducted just four points (and they're now appealing too), and Everton have since been handed a further two point deduction (which they're also appealing) for a different time-period. I half-expect City to be given a £100 million fine and a 30 point deduction, and that to be reduced to £10 million and 3 points on appeal.

They need to be stripped of the titles they've won, the owners ousted, and I think handed some sort of prolonged transfer ban of three to five years to come remotely close to punishing them. There's strong arguments for kicking them out of the league (and possibly even the whole pyramid), but I just can't see that happening.

tomaldinho1 said:
Exactly, I wonder if this is why it's taking so long. It seems like the evidence should be pretty clear cut guilty or not guilty, I get CFG are going to delay everything but some evidence must have been obtained by now and there must be an idea of guilt or not there. So maybe the delay isn't actually if they did it or not, it's now a free for all of very influential people with different interests trying to get the best 'deal' they can. The PL surely wants money + some action to signify i.e. stripped titles/demotion, the UAE don't want anything that negatively impacts their brand but don't really care about financial penalties, then the UK gov will be licking their lips as trying to help out the UAE for some favorable trade deals.
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City cooperated handing over relevant documents/data until about the 2018/19 season, so there's a decade's worth there they can go after them with. That alone would probably be enough to get them. There's something going on behind the scenes that I can only see as worrying. The fact we don't actually know any specific dates for a hearing is bad enough.
 
Alex99 said:
I half-expect City to be given a £100 million fine and a 30 point deduction, and that to be reduced to £10 million and 3 points on appeal.
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See something like this would also be enraging for PL clubs. If they apply it to this season then why should only Arsenal benefit? If it's applied to next season then again only the currently decent/good teams would benefit. A team like us would get nothing for finishing 2nd two times previously. The knock-on effects are just huge. As @Fortitude said they've basically taken away a CL spot from a more deserving team for the last decade and more.
 
Solius said:
See something like this would also be enraging for PL clubs. If they apply it to this season then why should only Arsenal benefit? If it's applied to next season then again only the currently decent/good teams would benefit. A team like us would get nothing for finishing 2nd two times previously. The knock-on effects are just huge. As @Fortitude said they've basically taken away a CL spot from a more deserving team for the last decade and more.
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It's just a lack of faith in the authorities to actually deal with it.

Maybe I'm being pessimistic.

Considering they hadn't finished above 8th in the Premier League before the takeover, it's not just league titles they've cost teams, and not even just CL (or Europa) qualification, it's been the difference between entering in group stages or having to go through qualifiers. Then there's the teams they've beaten in cup competitions even when they've not gone on to win it, changing the whole dynamic of the tournament.

They should be done as a club. We should be seeing FC City of Manchester forming and starting in the Manchester League Division Two, ground sharing with Stockport Town.
 
£100 million fine? Sorry, can't pay that right now. You'll need to wait until tomorrow.
 
If they were serious about punishing Cheaty, wouldn’t they have done so already? They seem to move quickly against Everton and Forrest.

The thing that might work is a joint protest or strike by all the clubs, of a significant chunk of them.
 
NLunited said:
If they were serious about punishing Cheaty, wouldn’t they have done so already? They seem to move quickly against Everton and Forrest.
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A lot less complicated cases, not to mention the fact that Everton and Forest weren't constantly trying to block the PL at every corner
 
NotChatGPT said:
A lot less complicated cases, not to mention the fact that Everton and Forest weren't constantly trying to block the PL at every corner
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Even so, it is a failure of epic proportions. Basically they can‘t enforce fair play rules, Cheaty does whatever it wants.

Why aren‘t journalists asking tough questions? Another failure. They are probably chicken.
 
NLunited said:
If they were serious about punishing Cheaty, wouldn’t they have done so already? They seem to move quickly against Everton and Forrest.

The thing that might work is a joint protest or strike by all the clubs, of a significant chunk of them.
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Everton and Forest don't have the resources to fight it this fiercely, City do.
 
NLunited said:
Even so, it is a failure of epic proportions. Basically they can‘t enforce fair play rules, Cheaty does whatever it wants.

Why aren‘t journalists asking tough questions? Another failure. They are probably chicken.
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I suspect because the reporters covering it are sports writers and this is more of a hard news angle. Look at Sunak's recent interview on Sky News about when he was going to call an election, he wanted to avoid it but the interviewer asked repeatedly and Sunak got ratty as a result.

Reporters who ask questions to football clubs or sporting organisations get banned for not toeing the line, United have done it very recently too.

They lose that access to the superstars which as a result leaves their livelihoods at risk.

There's no tenacity from sports reporters to repeatedly ask a question until they get an answer, they'll ask it once and move on as long as they have some kind of reply - regardless of how bland.
 
NLunited said:
Even so, it is a failure of epic proportions. Basically they can‘t enforce fair play rules, Cheaty does whatever it wants.

Why aren‘t journalists asking tough questions? Another failure. They are probably chicken.
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City Group exert the kind of influence and political resources that only state-backed clubs can.
 
duffer said:
Is there anyway they could be found not guilty that would satisfy fans of other teams?
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I doubt it. You don't get 115 charges against you when you're a wholly innocent club.

If someone I knew went to court for 115 separate charges of domestic abuse but was found not guilty on all 115 I still don't think I'd hang around with them anymore.
 
NLunited said:
Even so, it is a failure of epic proportions. Basically they can‘t enforce fair play rules, Cheaty does whatever it wants.

Why aren‘t journalists asking tough questions? Another failure. They are probably chicken.
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Someone tried to get Bill Rice (manchester journo) to mention the charges the other day and he just plain refuses to. He's never once spoken about them but fawns over their performances.

I've no doubt some are being paid to minimise it.
 
They won't get kicked out of the league but they could get say a 100 point deduction. In reality that would probably mean back to back relegation and they'd rebuild from League 1. I think seems pretty fair all around to be honest.

Just wish they'd get a move on and finalise it. Whatever it may be.
 
Hughes35 said:
They won't get kicked out of the league but they could get say a 100 point deduction. In reality that would probably mean back to back relegation and they'd rebuild from League 1. I think seems pretty fair all around to be honest.

Just wish they'd get a move on and finalise it. Whatever it may be.
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Why would a 100 point deduction land them in League 1? What am I missing?
 
I wonder if there's a way fans of the other teams could coordinate when they're let off, and justnot go to City matches.

Would be amazing watching sky and others twist themselves in knots to not mention why the stadiums are empty for one match each week.
 
Hughes35 said:
They won't get kicked out of the league but they could get say a 100 point deduction. In reality that would probably mean back to back relegation and they'd rebuild from League 1. I think seems pretty fair all around to be honest.

Just wish they'd get a move on and finalise it. Whatever it may be.
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How would a 100 point deduction mean back to back relegation? If they got docked 100 points it'd relegate them from the PL, but if you're going to do a 100 point deduction, you may as well just immediately kick them out of the league, but even then, they'd just win immediate promotion from the Championship.

If you mean splitting it across two seasons, it's feasible they'd survive that, given 50 points off their current total has them 16th.
 
Sky's coverage of Man City is laughably biased, they seldom ever mention the charges. Unless of course they know something the rest of us don't. Part of me thinks it's a strategy to drag this out so long that the appetite to see them punished will be diminished and when the inevitable whitewash is announced, people won't be surprised at all and will just roll their eyes rather than go crazy in indignation.
 
padzilla said:
Sky's coverage of Man City is laughably biased, they seldom ever mention the charges. Unless of course they know something the rest of us don't. Part of me thinks it's a strategy to drag this out so long that the appetite to see them punished will be diminished and when the inevitable whitewash is announced, people won't be surprised at all and will just roll their eyes rather than go crazy in indignation.
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The deductions for Forest and Everton surely make this impossible now. They are both absolutely fuming at this and have stated they'll be watching the other investigations closely.
 
Alex99 said:
How would a 100 point deduction mean back to back relegation? If they got docked 100 points it'd relegate them from the PL, but if you're going to do a 100 point deduction, you may as well just immediately kick them out of the league, but even then, they'd just win immediate promotion from the Championship.

If you mean splitting it across two seasons, it's feasible they'd survive that, given 50 points off their current total has them 16th.
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A 100 point deduction would be funny as they'd have to play out a whole Premier League season with no chance of staying up.

in the unlikely event they won all 38 games they'd finish on 14 points.

It would be the equivalent of Cersei Lannister walking through the streets naked.

We could all chant 'Shame' at them all season.
 
Yeah it's going to be a big fine isn't it?

They've already mentioned that points deductions are unfair and a luxury tax could be introduced...just in time for 115s charges to be formalised.

They'll pay the fine laughing as they sign a sponsorship for the number one Saudi toilet roll for the same price the next day.
 
padzilla said:
Sky's coverage of Man City is laughably biased, they seldom ever mention the charges. Unless of course they know something the rest of us don't. Part of me thinks it's a strategy to drag this out so long that the appetite to see them punished will be diminished and when the inevitable whitewash is announced, people won't be surprised at all and will just roll their eyes rather than go crazy in indignation.
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Sky are a global commercial organization. Don't for one second imagine the good of the game is what they are concerned with. They will play it in the best way for them not to jeopardize future commercial interests, which likely means keeping state owned clubs on side. If (big if) there is a proper punishment then they may come on strong with it, but don't expect any outcry from them if it is a mere fine and points deduction. They will play it up as a strong punishment. Will be interesting at that point what the 'principled' employees they have (Gary Neville) do at that point.

Any opposition to a weak punishment will need to come from grass roots level supporters boycotting games and the other PL clubs making a joint statement (or at least enough of them) that they will not accept it. Failing that the media (none of them) will push for more. Snouts in the trough, all of them.
 
MegadrivePerson said:
A 100 point deduction would be funny as they'd have to play out a whole Premier League season with no chance of staying up.

in the unlikely event they won all 38 games they'd finish on 14 points.

It would be the equivalent of Cersei Lannister walking through the streets naked.

We could all chant 'Shame' at them all season.
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It'd just be pointless for everyone involved. If you're handing out a points deduction that is guaranteed to relegated a team, you may as well just relegate them from the off and spare whoever finished 18th that season.
 
bstb3 said:
Sky are a global commercial organization. Don't for one second imagine the good of the game is what they are concerned with. They will play it in the best way for them not to jeopardize future commercial interests, which likely means keeping state owned clubs on side. If (big if) there is a proper punishment then they may come on strong with it, but don't expect any outcry from them if it is a mere fine and points deduction. They will play it up as a strong punishment. Will be interesting at that point what the 'principled' employees they have (Gary Neville) do at that point.

Any opposition to a weak punishment will need to come from grass roots level supporters boycotting games and the other PL clubs making a joint statement (or at least enough of them) that they will not accept it. Failing that the media (none of them) will push for more. Snouts in the trough, all of them.
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Well Gary Neville's already the poster boy for selling out so I don't expect much change from him there. Remember him ranting about the indignity of clubs across Europe forming a breakaway league when he's paid as the face of another breakaway league who would lose out if it happened?
We're not exactly talking about a man of the people here.
 
GDaly95 said:
Why would a 100 point deduction land them in League 1? What am I missing?
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Because realistically if they started next year on -100 points with any minus transferring over to other seasons they would likely lose a lot of key players (and Pep) + They'd have to reduce wages etc to not breach the rules repeatedly.

Lets say they got 55 points, that would mean relegation to the championship and then they'd start that season with -45 points which would likely mean a second relegation.

For me that would be the fair way to implement a punishment.
 
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