City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches | Hearing begins 16th September 2024

Sandikan said:
It feels like for a long while no-one seemed to care as it was pretty much United getting upset by City's emergence.
I was always surprised Arsenal didn't care more when they kept cherry picking their players.

But now, other teams seem to get what's gone on. Took them long enough.
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It's not even just the PL either, now other European teams must be fretting about their emergence. They could easily dominate the CL with their resources, especially if they get away with the 115 charges.
 
SuperiorXI said:
It's not even just the PL either, now other European teams must be fretting about their emergence. They could easily dominate the CL with their resources, especially if they get away with the 115 charges.
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Yep, you definitely know that Real Madrid and Barcelona be monitoring this with interest.
Although they should hush up really, having been used to taking who they wanted even from huge clubs, plus some questionable funding practices themselves.

Football is utterly broken though, from lower league clubs constantly going into administration, through to utter non entity clubs like West Ham technically being richer than historic greats like the Milan clubs.
 
LordSpud said:
Anyone else finished with football if they don't get a proper punishment? Feel like it's all a bit pointless if they get away with it.
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The problem is even if a few hardcore supporters and old times become finished with the league, there are millions that won't be finished with it and are satisfied with the status quo. City and the officials know that and they have crunched the numbers. It's all about money not competition or catering to genuine knowledgeable supporters.
 
Sandikan said:
It feels like for a long while no-one seemed to care as it was pretty much United getting upset by City's emergence.
I was always surprised Arsenal didn't care more when they kept cherry picking their players.

But now, other teams seem to get what's gone on. Took them long enough.
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Yup. fecking ABU’s. If it had been Liverpool who were dominant back then, they’d have been up in arms.
 
I think it’s best that City stay successful for this season at least, as it digs them a hole that other clubs want them buried in.
Victims of their own success as it were.

Nobody wants to see one team dominate over all others as that’s boring and they become hated. Just look at United under Fergie - although that was self earned success no matter what bollox City fans come out with.

City are light years ahead of all other teams right now, simply through the ridiculously large injection of money into all aspects of the club. And it’s all been done fraudulently.
There will always be an asterisk against all their ill gotten trophies.
 
OldSchoolManc said:
I think it’s best that City stay successful for this season at least, as it digs them a hole that other clubs want them buried in.
Victims of their own success as it were.

Nobody wants to see one team dominate over all others as that’s boring and they become hated. Just look at United under Fergie - although that was self earned success no matter what bollox City fans come out with.

City are light years ahead of all other teams right now, simply through the ridiculously large injection of money into all aspects of the club. And it’s all been done fraudulently.
There will always be an asterisk against all their ill gotten trophies.
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Don't think you can compare SAF to the cheat machine City is. Even with Utd's wins and despite the rivalry I still had a begrudging respect for them as rivals and despite the hate at the end of the day you could raise your hands up and say fair enough they deserve it.

There is nothing like that for City. Had it not been for their disgusting cheating we'd maybe be winning our second title in a row. And you yourselves would have won more.
 
Hearing Keane praise them makes me sick, feck sake Roy risk your job and call them out
 
LordSpud said:
Anyone else finished with football if they don't get a proper punishment? Feel like it's all a bit pointless if they get away with it.
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Definitely Premier league football. I'd go on continuing to support my league one side but football in general is creeping towards insane owners.

I don't think they will "get away with it" but the punishment will be unparallel or a huge fine and we all know money means nothing to them.

I wouldn't be surprised if the "punishment" is not disclosed to the public.

With VAR, shocking refereeing, cheating clubs and super rich owners artificially inflating clubs, I've been on the brink for a while.

I'd never stop supporting United, but it'd be from a huge distance.
 
Soon be time for the "Who remembers Manchester City?" thread when they cease to exist.

Looking forward to their 3 fans telling us tales of a long forgotten football-ish club. Is it possible to have a permanent rendition of Wonderwall playing while the thread is open, for painful nostalgia?
 
It will certainly be a tough pill to swallow and continue to consume. As much as I believe City won't be punished anywhere near enough, I'm kind of relying on them to really get the book thrown at them, otherwise what's the point of carrying on watching the PL? It's broken and doomed.
 
Football as a serious interest, is over if City don’t get an appropriate punishment.
What is the point of rules if one club out of all the rest can flagrantly ignore them?
 
OldSchoolManc said:
Football as a serious interest, is over if City don’t get an appropriate punishment.
What is the point of rules if one club out of all the rest can flagrantly ignore them?
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I do wonder how many people will just switch off if they avoid it completely?
 
They’ll get an unprecedented 30 point deduction and an even more unprecedented fine of, like, 100 million.

At which point the authorities will be able to say City were punished harder than any other club has ever been.

And City will be out of CL for a season. Maybe.
 
OleGunnar20 said:
100% this. I'll just stick to the grassroots leagues locally for my fix, feck it.
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It’s something I have been thinking about a lot lately, and it’d be a lifelong habit I’d have to break, and probably have to quit this forum to do it. Which all in all would be cutting (but maybe not the worst thing for my life?).

Hopefully they get the book thrown at them so it’s not a concern.
 
Rob said:
They’ll get an unprecedented 30 point deduction and an even more unprecedented fine of, like, 100 million.

At which point the authorities will be able to say City were punished harder than any other club has ever been.

And City will be out of CL for a season. Maybe.
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That would be a totally pathetic punishment,like the other poster says may as well just focus on a local grassroots side instead
 
Berbasbullet said:
It’s something I have been thinking about a lot lately, and it’d be a lifelong habit I’d have to break, and probably have to quit this forum to do it. Which all in all would be cutting (but maybe not the worst thing for my life?).

Hopefully they get the book thrown at them so it’s not a concern.
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Same. It'd be a horrible thing but I think I'd be lying myself pretending anything mattered at that point. I mean the games already fecked up enough as it is, there comes a time when enough is enough.

But hey as you say, hopefully the powers that be surprise us all and actually punish them properly..
 
Wasn’t City supposed to be kicked out of the UCL a few years ago and they somehow lawyered their way back in? Was this 2020?
 
Infordin said:
Wasn’t City supposed to be kicked out of the UCL a few years ago and they somehow lawyered their way back in? Was this 2020?
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Got of on appeal to CAS. Think it was a couple of years before 2020. 2017/8 sounds about right?
 
Berbasbullet said:
I do wonder how many people will just switch off if they avoid it completely?
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I don't think many will at all. The sport is too popular, and, outside of us United fans, do the majority really care about City's cheating? They're gaining new fans everyday, and, even on here, I see plenty of people preferring them to Arsenal.
 
Rob said:
They’ll get an unprecedented 30 point deduction and an even more unprecedented fine of, like, 100 million.

At which point the authorities will be able to say City were punished harder than any other club has ever been.

And City will be out of CL for a season. Maybe.
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That’s exactly what I expect to happen. And people will just go on afterwards like they did before.
 
HTG said:
That’s exactly what I expect to happen. And people will just go on afterwards like they did before.
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I dont know about that. The idea of not following football would have been completely unthinkable to me 20 years ago. I think we've narrowly avoided about 3 or 4 instances that probably would have been the straw that broke the camels back as far as my continued interest in the sport goes in the last 18 months. I've completely wrote off la liga and have largely forgotten about international football. I suppose they've got a few million chinese / indian supporters to replace me but I'm not sure why they'd have any interest in the current version of the sport.
 
HTG said:
That’s exactly what I expect to happen. And people will just go on afterwards like they did before.
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I would even be surprised if that is the extent of their punishment. I am expecting something like an 8-10 point deduction and some pocket change fine they won’t even notice. I fully expect this to be dealt with very inadequately, big/rich clubs can get away with far more than regular clubs like Everton and Nottingham.
 
gormless said:
Fairly sure Inter were given it?
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I think they ended up reversing it.

I think titles like that are fairly meaningless for clubs that get them in lieu of team that had them taken away. It doesn’t nearly emulate the joy of actually winning it in the first place.
 
Sarni said:
I would even be surprised if that is the extent of their punishment. I am expecting something like an 8-10 point deduction and some pocket change fine they won’t even notice. I fully expect this to be dealt with very inadequately, big/rich clubs can get away with far more than regular clubs like Everton and Nottingham.
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This is what I expect too, however for me it just doesn't make sense that Everton have been deducted more this season for (what I assume is) less charges.
 
caid said:
I dont know about that. The idea of not following football would have been completely unthinkable to me 20 years ago. I think we've narrowly avoided about 3 or 4 instances that probably would have been the straw that broke the camels back as far as my continued interest in the sport goes in the last 18 months. I've completely wrote off la liga and have largely forgotten about international football. I suppose they've got a few million chinese / indian supporters to replace me but I'm not sure why they'd have any interest in the current version of the sport.
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Obviously it's not going to have any effect whatsoever, but for me whatever happens in the case against Manchester City is more or less going to determine if i give up on watching football or not. I already think it's become more than just a bit pointless, especially with UEFA and FIFA introducing more and more tournaments and matches in order to increase their revenue.
 
Sky Sports had an interview with a PL chief last week where he said the matter will resolve itself in the near future. That, to me, is the language of someone expecting it to quietly go away, it's utterly bizarre no date has been made public yet.
 
Rob said:
They’ll get an unprecedented 30 point deduction and an even more unprecedented fine of, like, 100 million.

At which point the authorities will be able to say City were punished harder than any other club has ever been.

And City will be out of CL for a season. Maybe.
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Doubt it will even be that much. Will be like 10 points and £20m and still pundits can act like they’ve been hard done by and how it’s harsh etc.
 
padzilla said:
Sky Sports had an interview with a PL chief last week where he said the matter will resolve itself in the near future. That, to me, is the language of someone expecting it to quietly go away, it's utterly bizarre no date has been made public yet.
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It's not surprising in the slightest. The key moment was when they opened the door and welcomed them in with a warm embrace. Now, they can't force them out (unless something outside football occurs, like Russia and the West). And if you read the Wiki leaks, UEFA (who took them to court) never had an issue with their cheating. The "problem" always was that they cheated "too much". They were basically telling them: "We don't care it's not organic, just try and make it look like it is". PSG agreed, City didn't. The PL are probably looking for a similar deal. The Saudis do look a bit more constrained with the numbers they're presenting at Newcastle. Perhaps, this is the solution they're trying to push.
 
TheRedDevil'sAdvocate said:
It's not surprising in the slightest. The key moment was when they opened the door and welcomed them in with a warm embrace. Now, they can't force them out (unless something outside football occurs, like Russia and the West). And if you read the Wiki leaks, UEFA (who took them to court) never had an issue with their cheating. The "problem" always was that they cheated "too much". They were basically telling them: "We don't care it's not organic, just try and make it look like it is". PSG agreed, City didn't. The PL are probably looking for a similar deal. The Saudis do look a bit more constrained with the numbers they're presenting at Newcastle. Perhaps, this is the solution they're trying to push.
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Depends a bit on the context he said it in. I can only hope it was said in relation to City being in a title race.

Again, the Premier League is a product that brings a ton of investments to the UK, that’s it. We’re also talking friends of the UK gov. There’s no interest in forcing them out. It's also a certainty that local politicians in Manchester and the UK gov is lobbying hard to prevent any punishment from having a major impact on overall investments.
 
NotChatGPT said:
Depends a bit on the context he said it in. I can only hope it was said in relation to City being in a title race.

Again, the Premier League is a product that brings a ton of investments to the UK, that’s it. We’re also talking friends of the UK gov. There’s no interest in forcing them out. It's also a certainty that local politicians in Manchester and the UK gov is lobbying hard to prevent any punishment from having a major impact on overall investments.
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If the PL knowingly harbours cheating institutions it should considerably devalue the product. Long term it would be more advisable to at the very least severely punish City. No one would bother with a rigged sport because it takes the excitement away.
 
Fortitude said:
City are purchased by Abu Dhabi in September 2008. Manchester City placed 9th the season prior. Abu Dhabi get to work buying players who wouldn't otherwise even look in City's direction. 9th place in 2007/'08 becomes 8th place in 2008/'09; the initial steps of the process take a while to bed in, as the old is replaced with the new. City's first big leap takes place the next season with 8th place bested by three positions. They finish the 2009/'10 season in 5th position. We're now in 2010/'11 and City have sacked Hughes and got their first big name coach in Roberto Mancini. They finish 3rd that season and are now a Champions League club. They've been a perennial fixture in the CL places ever since.

There are no cyclic ups or downs, no consequence for poor purchases where normal clubs are lumped with players whose value plummets who they then cannot get off their books because they cannot afford to pay up their contracts willy-nilly and no other club will take them on without subsidy. There is no fear or regard for any of the recognised norms clubs who are not state-owned are hamstrung by. City are a guaranteed lock for a CL place, thus taking it away from any legitimate contender who is then vying with the remainder for 'a go'. The established Old Order are hurt by this, but the remainder are absolutely crushed by it because they have to have more luck than ever before, or take on more financial risk than ever before to try and break this new status quo.

Meanwhile, of the Old Order, not one of them has been a lock in the CL positions as a perennial fixture since 2009/'10

Manchester United have missed out on the CL 5, going on 6 times (once this season concludes).

Liverpool have missed out on the CL 6 times.

Chelsea have missed out on the CL 4, going on 5 times (once this season concludes).

Arsenal have missed out on the CL 6 times.

This is the Old Order, look how many times these so-called behemoths have failed to qualify for the Champions League since City became an indubitable fixture in the competition. Whether you wish to count Chelsea or not, the point remains - Chelsea are more an example of a club with no hope forcing themselves into the conversation, but not overstepping the mark to the point they have broken football.

Now, as stated by numerous people and their painstaking efforts to make clear how damaging what City are doing is, it's not the clubs above who are the most put out by City, it's the teams below them who, without City's permanency would have had a chance to make their play for the top table. Spurs are going to have been the biggest fall guys, but now it's also the likes of Villa as they try and push through the glass ceiling to compete directly with the teams above (and not City).

There is no time in English football history where Old Orders (they used to be dynamic: Wolves, for example, used to be a big dog up to the conclusion of the 1950's) as there have been - or supposedly established - where those teams remained, perennially, at the helm. In fact, most are defined by golden periods followed by fallow times where they cannot compete for the league nor CL (or previously, the European Cup).

Great periods for these sides are attributed to great men doing unbelievably shrewd work within a financial remit that whilst at the higher end, was not obliterating those around them - the clubs ebbed and flowed with the passage of these managers. City are a faceless state, as @Regulus Arcturus Black stated, there is no way for them to fail because they will always have the best in class, will always replace the best with the best and there will never be a lull due to financial instability or uncertainty. In other words, completely and utterly artificial conditions, especially when contrasted with what history has told us about every one of the Old Order, who all, to a club, could/did/have slumped and have had to re-establish themselves once more years down the line.

It's clear that what some see as "Manchester United" is actually an infernal loathing of Alex Ferguson and the brilliance he ushered into the club, which immediately lost its way without him at the top. In the following 10 years, the cluelessness, and more importantly, the consequences of that cluelessness, have not only seen Manchester United fall back into the pack, but for most of the time, be behind them by some distance. The exact same thing befell Liverpool when Dalglish handed over to Souness and sent them flailing, not only off the top spot, but to be out of the running for the title for years. In very short order, both clubs went from halcyon periods with great players to an exodus and squads and managers who hadn't a prayer. This is how the Old Order works and what their pitfalls are. One or two bad managerial hires and they can fall like a house of cards because consequence for poor decisions then comes back to haunt them as a debt that needs paying in full. These old clubs don't just get to wipe the slate clean each season and go again with a brand new set of players if the bad buys don't work out. They are lumped with them and the general bar for the side will steadily diminish. Arsenal experienced exactly the same thing once Wenger stopped shitting gold. The stadium didn't help, but it wasn't their downfall, but it highlights another point and consequence: the either, or. By pouring money into the new stadium, they were going to be hamstrung for years. A conscious decision made to better their stadium meant less money could be pumped into the team, and anyone coming to manage them had to accept that. At City? Nope, we'll redevelop a portion of the city - yes, the literal city - whilst still hiring best in class across all facets on off and the pitch with no fallout whatsoever. Hmm... clearly the same playing field as what everyone else is uuming and ahhing from.

The worst thing of all is City didn't have to cheat as a state is going to be Borg-like in its assimilation by its very nature. It cannot be anything else, which is why it has no place in football, but that's besides the point as this is about cheating to achieve ends as hurriedly and as artificially as one can imagine.

As much as the Old Order could be despised by those who were not part of it, they were not infinite or unmovable. Every single one of them had sizeable lulls multiple times in their histories and provided opportunities for others to take their slice of the pie should they be so fortunate to go upwind at the time of a boon for the game. We'll never know what would have happened without City in the picture, but history tells us, quite clearly, that even the biggest of English clubs has never been too big to not fail, until now. With Ferguson's retirement, there was no guarantee status quo would have remained, but unlike in the past, where new players could gobble up space, things quickly became established in this new, most broken order where the winningest team's biggest concerns are in how to hide their wrongdoing. The footballing side of things, a total formality due to them having no consequences for anything that goes wrong.
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Brilliant post.

What's the betting all 115 charges FC gets is a fine. Which will mean naff all given the money they have

Look what's happened to Everton and those were more minor breaches yet we are potentially going to see 115 Charges go unpunished/with a pathetic punishment that won't hinder them

Even the PL Facebook page seems heavily celebratory of 115 Charges FC and Haaland. I know it wants to promote to good players and league, but sure let's promote the club that should be punished for effectively cheating

Let's not forget they were supposed to be banned from the CL, yet got that over turned then when they would have been banned went and won it, thus giving them the treble that only United have previously done (albeit United's was legitimate)

They need to use them as an example of what happens if clubs take part in such serious degrees of cheating, and should be getting points deductions in the tens or even hundreds. But they won't because no one wants to stand up to them because they want to be able to keep fingers in pies

It's not just clubs like United/Liverpool etc that are being majorly affected by them going forward you have teams like Aston Villa competing for CL and the money that brings - and AV aren't one of the top tier clubs for finances so it would be massive for them

Anything they've won should be voided, because you can't tell how results would have gone if 115 charges FC weren't involved. They should be stripped of everything they've won since the ownership changed

If nothing happened, where's the deterrent to stop them buying other clubs and doing this, making the league even more broken
 
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