City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with 130 FFP breaches | Hearing begins 16th Sep 2024 | Concluded 9th Dec 2024 - Awaiting outcome

If they get relegated and Pep leaves one of the benefits is that we won't have to endure Barcelona fans pretending to be City fans online anymore. They can worship their idol elsewhere.
 
SambaBoy said:
I despise City as much as anyone here.

But the whole 'blatant cheating' and 'players knowingly participating under a scandal' is a bit OTT. They've inflated revenue, and paid managers/players off the book. They haven't been part of a doping or refereeing scandal.

I think people struggle to separate how hollow and boring City are with the charges. The charges they are excused off have allowed them to spend more money and attract better players - and gave them an advantage but let's not pretend they would have been mid-table if they had followed the rules.

They've identified talent well over the last 10 years, brought in a winning structure, moved players on at the right time, and appointed the best manager. United have not fallen behind City because they cheated.

In saying that, the PL need to set a precedent and assure it's more than just a big fine to prevent it happening again.
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Yeah, such as the likes of Sergio Aguero and Yaya Toure, who grew up with pictures of Paul Dickov on their walls.

Surely you get that financial doping is the entire reason they’re able to attract good players and managers in the first place? Before the Abu Dhabi takeover in 2008, city finished 9th - after getting thumped 8-1 by Middlesbrough. It’s absolutely correct to say they would still be mid-table without it.
 
SambaBoy said:
I despise City as much as anyone here.

But the whole 'blatant cheating' and 'players knowingly participating under a scandal' is a bit OTT. They've inflated revenue, and paid managers/players off the book. They haven't been part of a doping or refereeing scandal.

I think people struggle to separate how hollow and boring City are with the charges. The charges they are excused off have allowed them to spend more money and attract better players - and gave them an advantage but let's not pretend they would have been mid-table if they had followed the rules.

They've identified talent well over the last 10 years, brought in a winning structure, moved players on at the right time, and appointed the best manager. United have not fallen behind City because they cheated.

In saying that, the PL need to set a precedent and assure it's more than just a big fine to prevent it happening again.
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The players bit fair enough, but with regards to cheating, they signed up to participate in a competition that has set rules about finances. If they break those rules to win, what is that if not cheating?
 
Fortitude said:
City are purchased by Abu Dhabi in September 2008. Manchester City placed 9th the season prior. Abu Dhabi get to work buying players who wouldn't otherwise even look in City's direction. 9th place in 2007/'08 becomes 8th place in 2008/'09; the initial steps of the process take a while to bed in, as the old is replaced with the new. City's first big leap takes place the next season with 8th place bested by three positions. They finish the 2009/'10 season in 5th position. We're now in 2010/'11 and City have sacked Hughes and got their first big name coach in Roberto Mancini. They finish 3rd that season and are now a Champions League club. They've been a perennial fixture in the CL places ever since.

There are no cyclic ups or downs, no consequence for poor purchases where normal clubs are lumped with players whose value plummets who they then cannot get off their books because they cannot afford to pay up their contracts willy-nilly and no other club will take them on without subsidy. There is no fear or regard for any of the recognised norms clubs who are not state-owned are hamstrung by. City are a guaranteed lock for a CL place, thus taking it away from any legitimate contender who is then vying with the remainder for 'a go'. The established Old Order are hurt by this, but the remainder are absolutely crushed by it because they have to have more luck than ever before, or take on more financial risk than ever before to try and break this new status quo.

Meanwhile, of the Old Order, not one of them has been a lock in the CL positions as a perennial fixture since 2009/'10

Manchester United have missed out on the CL 5, going on 6 times (once this season concludes).

Liverpool have missed out on the CL 6 times.

Chelsea have missed out on the CL 4, going on 5 times (once this season concludes).

Arsenal have missed out on the CL 6 times.

This is the Old Order, look how many times these so-called behemoths have failed to qualify for the Champions League since City became an indubitable fixture in the competition. Whether you wish to count Chelsea or not, the point remains - Chelsea are more an example of a club with no hope forcing themselves into the conversation, but not overstepping the mark to the point they have broken football.

Now, as stated by numerous people and their painstaking efforts to make clear how damaging what City are doing is, it's not the clubs above who are the most put out by City, it's the teams below them who, without City's permanency would have had a chance to make their play for the top table. Spurs are going to have been the biggest fall guys, but now it's also the likes of Villa as they try and push through the glass ceiling to compete directly with the teams above (and not City).

There is no time in English football history where Old Orders (they used to be dynamic: Wolves, for example, used to be a big dog up to the conclusion of the 1950's) as there have been - or supposedly established - where those teams remained, perennially, at the helm. In fact, most are defined by golden periods followed by fallow times where they cannot compete for the league nor CL (or previously, the European Cup).

Great periods for these sides are attributed to great men doing unbelievably shrewd work within a financial remit that whilst at the higher end, was not obliterating those around them - the clubs ebbed and flowed with the passage of these managers. City are a faceless state, as @Regulus Arcturus Black stated, there is no way for them to fail because they will always have the best in class, will always replace the best with the best and there will never be a lull due to financial instability or uncertainty. In other words, completely and utterly artificial conditions, especially when contrasted with what history has told us about every one of the Old Order, who all, to a club, could/did/have slumped and have had to re-establish themselves once more years down the line.

It's clear that what some see as "Manchester United" is actually an infernal loathing of Alex Ferguson and the brilliance he ushered into the club, which immediately lost its way without him at the top. In the following 10 years, the cluelessness, and more importantly, the consequences of that cluelessness, have not only seen Manchester United fall back into the pack, but for most of the time, be behind them by some distance. The exact same thing befell Liverpool when Dalglish handed over to Souness and sent them flailing, not only off the top spot, but to be out of the running for the title for years. In very short order, both clubs went from halcyon periods with great players to an exodus and squads and managers who hadn't a prayer. This is how the Old Order works and what their pitfalls are. One or two bad managerial hires and they can fall like a house of cards because consequence for poor decisions then comes back to haunt them as a debt that needs paying in full. These old clubs don't just get to wipe the slate clean each season and go again with a brand new set of players if the bad buys don't work out. They are lumped with them and the general bar for the side will steadily diminish. Arsenal experienced exactly the same thing once Wenger stopped shitting gold. The stadium didn't help, but it wasn't their downfall, but it highlights another point and consequence: the either, or. By pouring money into the new stadium, they were going to be hamstrung for years. A conscious decision made to better their stadium meant less money could be pumped into the team, and anyone coming to manage them had to accept that. At City? Nope, we'll redevelop a portion of the city - yes, the literal city - whilst still hiring best in class across all facets on off and the pitch with no fallout whatsoever. Hmm... clearly the same playing field as what everyone else is uuming and ahhing from.

The worst thing of all is City didn't have to cheat as a state is going to be Borg-like in its assimilation by its very nature. It cannot be anything else, which is why it has no place in football, but that's besides the point as this is about cheating to achieve ends as hurriedly and as artificially as one can imagine.

As much as the Old Order could be despised by those who were not part of it, they were not infinite or unmovable. Every single one of them had sizeable lulls multiple times in their histories and provided opportunities for others to take their slice of the pie should they be so fortunate to go upwind at the time of a boon for the game. We'll never know what would have happened without City in the picture, but history tells us, quite clearly, that even the biggest of English clubs has never been too big to not fail, until now. With Ferguson's retirement, there was no guarantee status quo would have remained, but unlike in the past, where new players could gobble up space, things quickly became established in this new, most broken order where the winningest team's biggest concerns are in how to hide their wrongdoing. The footballing side of things, a total formality due to them having no consequences for anything that goes wrong.
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Worth bumping @Fortitude great post about this which sums it all up nicely for those who haven’t seen and think it’s just a case of City inflating a couple sponsors and not actually doing that much bad stuff.
 
Fox outside the box said:
Hardly. As much as I love a dig at city, it's hardly grotesque cheating they've been accused of. Few mill payments to mancini and inflating sponsors but mostly not co-operating.

Doesn't equal Newcastle being able to "go on an absolute mad one" because the rules are clearly not fit for purpose.

Don't be so hyperbolic haha
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..... wow. Just - wow.
 
The undercover cheats outing themselves in here.
Nobody cares if you put 'Citeh' as the club you support, just like real life.
 
romufc said:
Ha! A few mill? is that what you think it is?

So I assume you like the PL and others think that City generate 2nd revenue in the world? above Manutd, Bayern, Liverpool and Barca? whilst their stadium is 25% empty ?

if you classify hundreds of millions as nothing, then there is a problem.
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It’s hard to know at the moment if posters are trolls or ignorant or undercover fans.
 
Mate…. They’ve effectively smuggled in around 700m into the club by cheating PSR. They’re not inflating revenue, they are disguising equity. Take 700m worth of players and wages out of the squad and they would absolutely be a mid table team! If even half the charges are sustained it’ll represent the most systematic abuse of the rules football has ever season - maybe any sport anywhere!
 
Yeah, the cheating wasn't that bad. Without it, they wouldn't have recruited top players and managers by offering them absurd financial packages, and wouldn't have won 4 premier league trophies in a row, while taking trophies and prize money away from legitimate clubs who actually obey the rules that everyone agreed to.

But yeah, sure, it wasn't that bad.
 
DarkLord1984 said:
Yeah, the cheating wasn't that bad. Without it, they wouldn't have recruited top players and managers by offering them absurd financial packages, and wouldn't have won 4 premier league trophies in a row, while taking trophies and prize money away from legitimate clubs who actually obey the rules that everyone agreed to.

But yeah, sure, it wasn't that bad.
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Cheating that has been so systemic that it's now put them in a position where anything other than an incredibly harsh punishment will ensure they remain one of the big clubs in Europe, which they never would have been without the cheating.

But it wasn't really bad.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
I see the City bots parading the idea "it actually wasn't really that bad cheating, probably not really cheating at all" are out in force!
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Useful idiots and have been for 14 years. They'll never ever ever admit it to themselves though as they'd have an ugly truth to face
 
I think we’ll be hugely disappointed with the outcome of this. City’s behaviour points towards them being confident they’re going to get away with it. Spending a quarter of a billion in January being just one example. Like a big ‘feck you’ to the powers that be.
 
Irrational. said:
I think we’ll be hugely disappointed with the outcome of this. City’s behaviour points towards them being confident they’re going to get away with it. Spending a quarter of a billion in January being just one example. Like a big ‘feck you’ to the powers that be.
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I think the only way most of us will not be disappointed is if there's removal from the league, stripping of titles and a forced change of ownership. It's what they deserve. But I sincerely doubt that is going to happen.
 
Can't remember where it was, probably talksport, but the agents of one of their new signings claimed that their player will not be playing in the Championship or below and were confident that nothing serious would happen to the club.
 
Irrational. said:
I think we’ll be hugely disappointed with the outcome of this. City’s behaviour points towards them being confident they’re going to get away with it. Spending a quarter of a billion in January being just one example. Like a big ‘feck you’ to the powers that be.
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I’m not sure what they do now/have done last few years tells us much.

The charges are for a few years back and before.. since then, they’ve expanded, diversified and now have a large, legal income and profitability.

They can get punished for the past (and hopefully it’s chunky enough to punish and act as a deterrent) but the horse has bolted.
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Mail on a PR roll now - might be biased, but never liked Mail (obviously) but never liked Holt.

How anyone (let alone journalist) can say they don’t have an appetite for EITHER side is ridiculous. You can say the charges are/arent appropriate (when they come out) but to not acknowledge the rampant cheating needs punishment is pure bias.

https://twitter,com/ollieholt22/status/1902074671903994216?s=61&t=ZvGzfV2Qafn11jKrPfufuA
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feck me, some of the english journalists really have no shame or integrity (I know journalists in 2025 having integrity...). The state of that twitter post.
 
The thing I dont get with journalists and some fans who say... they cheated off the pitch but they still had to win the games etc... either dont get the point or back City.

If you dont cheat and have to follow the rules, you CANNOT afford to have the squad, if you cant have the squad... means you wont win as much.

Yes, cheating didnt help them score goals but it did help them build the squad to be able to compete.
 
romufc said:
The thing I dont get with journalists and some fans who say... they cheated off the pitch but they still had to win the games etc... either dont get the point or back City.

If you dont cheat and have to follow the rules, you CANNOT afford to have the squad, if you cant have the squad... means you wont win as much.

Yes, cheating didnt help them score goals but it did help them build the squad to be able to compete.
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They know this deep down, just choose to ignore that fact.
 
That's an absolutely horrid take. You could re-frame that whole tweet for anything bad... here's one for Crack addiction

I have no appetite for a ‘victory’ for either side in Crack addiction. Crack is one of the best drugs I’ve seen. Brought me a lot of joy taking it. Idea of being plunged into world of no crack is hardly to be relished
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Mail on a PR roll now - might be biased, but never liked Mail (obviously) but never liked Holt.

How anyone (let alone journalist) can say they don’t have an appetite for EITHER side is ridiculous. You can say the charges are/arent appropriate (when they come out) but to not acknowledge the rampant cheating needs punishment is pure bias.

https://twitter,com/ollieholt22/status/1902074671903994216?s=61&t=ZvGzfV2Qafn11jKrPfufuA
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Same person, spot the difference…

 
Olly Holt of course said in 2002 that nothing Alex Ferguson does after going back on his retirement will mean anything, because he's lost all credibility. He's been an idiot for decades. And his mother is Emily Bishop off Corrie. Which has nothing to do with anything, but worth a mention.
 
FujiVice said:
Olly Holt of course said in 2002 that nothing Alex Ferguson does after going back on his retirement will mean anything, because he's lost all credibility. He's been an idiot for decades. And his mother is Emily Bishop off Corrie. Which has nothing to do with anything, but worth a mention.
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She’d be a better journalist than him.
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Mail on a PR roll now - might be biased, but never liked Mail (obviously) but never liked Holt.

How anyone (let alone journalist) can say they don’t have an appetite for EITHER side is ridiculous. You can say the charges are/arent appropriate (when they come out) but to not acknowledge the rampant cheating needs punishment is pure bias.

https://twitter,com/ollieholt22/status/1902074671903994216?s=61&t=ZvGzfV2Qafn11jKrPfufuA
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I'm sure he was one of the twats on the Sunday Supplement, along with fat boy Martin Samuel, years ago gushing over how well City look after journalists in regards to hospitality, food and drink, facilities etc.

They're easily bought.
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Mail on a PR roll now - might be biased, but never liked Mail (obviously) but never liked Holt.

How anyone (let alone journalist) can say they don’t have an appetite for EITHER side is ridiculous. You can say the charges are/arent appropriate (when they come out) but to not acknowledge the rampant cheating needs punishment is pure bias.

https://twitter,com/ollieholt22/status/1902074671903994216?s=61&t=ZvGzfV2Qafn11jKrPfufuA
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This is a terrible rendition by the journalist, the optics really isn't City vs league it's the ramifications for a club cheating. If the league doesn't clamp it's footdown, there are other owners who are even more lucrative than City who can decide to skirt the rules in order to gain a competitive advantage.

So this whole thing is about the leagues integrity when it comes to sport. It's no different to a criminal committing a crime, if the law states one thing but the judge decides to give a lighter sentence or abscond punishment entirely it's then the court system in reflection that gets scrutiny.
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Same person, spot the difference…

[
Holt:

There's one caveat. This is also a victory for Saudi Arabia. It's impossible not to be pleased for Newcastle fans...
]
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The separation of fans from Saudi owning the club is absolutely infuriating. We get pilloried by the likes of Holt for protesting Glazers, whilst NUFC fans throw street parties for their beloved Saudi Arabia.

Same for a fair few on here twerking for Qatar. There is no separation. The silence about KSA for the vast majority of newcastle fans is why it's quite possible not to cheer along, though it's still fun laughing at the scouse.

Complete cowardice from Holt, but he knows how his bread is buttered. His volte face with city is likely coerced but it's either pontificate or face censure.
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Mail on a PR roll now - might be biased, but never liked Mail (obviously) but never liked Holt.

How anyone (let alone journalist) can say they don’t have an appetite for EITHER side is ridiculous. You can say the charges are/arent appropriate (when they come out) but to not acknowledge the rampant cheating needs punishment is pure bias.

https://twitter,com/ollieholt22/status/1902074671903994216?s=61&t=ZvGzfV2Qafn11jKrPfufuA
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City’s football is so boring and ultimately their success isn’t real as it’s only happening because of sportswashing.
 
Shane88 said:
I'm sure he was one of the twats on the Sunday Supplement, along with fat boy Martin Samuel, years ago gushing over how well City look after journalists in regards to hospitality, food and drink, facilities etc.

They're easily bought.
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D'you know what's funny, I used to love the Sunday Supplement but I can distinctly remember episodes where that happened, those two particularly gushing over how they were treated at City compared to other grounds and I stopped really taking notice of them back then as their motivations were clear as day. He's been an idiot for ages.
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Mail on a PR roll now - might be biased, but never liked Mail (obviously) but never liked Holt.

How anyone (let alone journalist) can say they don’t have an appetite for EITHER side is ridiculous. You can say the charges are/arent appropriate (when they come out) but to not acknowledge the rampant cheating needs punishment is pure bias.

https://twitter,com/ollieholt22/status/1902074671903994216?s=61&t=ZvGzfV2Qafn11jKrPfufuA
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I used to like Holt. A long time ago but not lately.
 
Shane88 said:
I'm sure he was one of the twats on the Sunday Supplement, along with fat boy Martin Samuel, years ago gushing over how well City look after journalists in regards to hospitality, food and drink, facilities etc.

They're easily bought.
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Samuel, that massive ball of vile lard.

He got me banned from commenting on The Times forum because I disagreed with one of his many City apologist PR pieces.

He goes through the comments and deletes comments he doesn’t like. Pathetic journalist.
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Mail on a PR roll now - might be biased, but never liked Mail (obviously) but never liked Holt.

How anyone (let alone journalist) can say they don’t have an appetite for EITHER side is ridiculous. You can say the charges are/arent appropriate (when they come out) but to not acknowledge the rampant cheating needs punishment is pure bias.

https://twitter,com/ollieholt22/status/1902074671903994216?s=61&t=ZvGzfV2Qafn11jKrPfufuA
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''Ok City have been cheating on an unprecedented scale, ruined numerous seasons and robbed other clubs of winning trophies legitimately. But I enjoy watching them so.....''
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:confused:
 
romufc said:
The thing I dont get with journalists and some fans who say... they cheated off the pitch but they still had to win the games etc... either dont get the point or back City.

If you dont cheat and have to follow the rules, you CANNOT afford to have the squad, if you cant have the squad... means you wont win as much.

Yes, cheating didnt help them score goals but it did help them build the squad to be able to compete.
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''Ok they've broken financial rules but that shildn't take anything away from the on field performances of Pep and the City players..''
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Eh, yes it ansolutely fecking should takeaway from it, because without all the rampant cheating they probably wouldn't have even been managed by Pep Guardiola or signed the majority of the players who play for them.

People who say this or similar are thick as pigshit.
 
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