Cineworld cancels film about the daughter of the Prophet Muhammad

WeePat said:
Okay, so we know depicting the prophet in a drawing or a film is going to incite anger and protests
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In this instance it doesn’t appear to be the depiction of Muhammad that is the primary problem. It’s more to do with the explicitly sectarian agenda of the writer and his portrayal of some of the closest companions (and successors) and wife of Muhammad who stand at the centre of the controversy that went on to define the division of the early Muslim community.
 
Protesting is one thing. Making threats is another thing. They're not the same.

If explicit threats were made here, then that's a bad thing.
 
2cents said:
In this instance it doesn’t appear to be the depiction of Muhammad that is the primary problem. It’s more to do with the explicitly sectarian agenda of the writer and his portrayal of some of the closest companions (and successors) and wife of Muhammad who stand at the centre of the controversy that went on to define the division of the early Muslim community.
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So it's a myriad of things. I've read about his views on several important people in Islamic history including Aisha whom this film is centered around. Yeah this sounds like it was a film designed to provoke and stoke anger.
 
VorZakone said:
Protesting is one thing. Making threats is another thing. They're not the same.

If explicit threats were made here, then that's a bad thing.
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I think in any large protests happening in multiple cities at once, it's impossible to make sure everyone is following the rules. From what I can tell, the vast majority of the protesters were just there protesting peacefully, listening to a man with a loud speaker.
 
WeePat said:
So it's a myriad of things. I've read about his views on several important people in Islamic history including Aisha whom this film is centered around. Yeah this sounds like it was a film designed to provoke and stoke anger.
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I'm still puzzled about how this made to the cinema still. Its low budget by modern standards, sounds bloody awful and well we know from recent history that depicting Muhammed puts a target on your back. It's weird that it was given the green light. However I'm probably going to find some way to watch it now anyway.
 
Tarrou said:
damn I'm coming dangerously close to agreeing with Laurence Fox here
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Doesn't the reciprocal apply? The UK is a democracy which means that believer of a religion have the right to complain, protest and demand changes. Also calling a democracy, secular, when it has religious bank holidays is suspect.
 
shamans said:
Two sides to a story. You can't eat your cake and have it. The fact is there are certain things that will piss off muslims and the muslim community as a whole. It is important to them and part of their identity. You have I don't know how many muslims living in Europe who will 100% not appreciate their religion being made a mockery out of.

Now if it your right to do that is more important, go ahead but don't accept an integrated society. Don't complain how muslim immigrants don't like to co-exist with or adopt local cultures. These sort of actions creates distrust. You have the option of getting close to muslims, and understanding why exactly it is they get offended or just pissing them off for the sake of freedom of hate speech.

If your rights for hate speech are that important, at least accept the consequences (I'm not talking about violent stuff, but distrust and alienation of muslim minorities in Europe) and be open about it.

The fact of the matter is this sort of stuff is offensive to most muslims. In a population of a billion or so, you will have some crazy loons equivalent of the capital riots shaman who will go on to do something violent. Then you'll have some regular loons (the sort that can be seen screeching in the videos) and unfortunately, Europe has attracted a lot of these sorts.

The vast majority though will just form resentment towards the west and realize how little they are respected. So this sort of stuff does not prove a point of "freedom of speech" against the 4-5% loud voices but rather adds fuel to the already widening divine in Europe.

Looking at it from an insulated western view of freedom of speech is ridiculous.
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Wasn’t this movie made by Muslims?
 
Gehrman said:
I'm still puzzled about how this made to the cinema still. Its low budget by modern standards, sounds bloody awful and well we know from recent history that depicting Muhammed puts a target on your back. It's weird that it was given the green light. However I'm probably going to find some way to watch it now anyway.
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The controversy will likely elevate the films performance. More people will go and see it now that it's been headline news for a few days. I'm not in the business of stopping people from telling any story they want, even if it super offensive to a huge number of people, but protests should also be allowed, so conversations around why it's offensive can be had and then life moves on with more people now aware of some things they weren't before.
 
Gehrman said:
I don't understand what the speaker is saying.
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He's saying something about 'jahannam' which is hellfire, and at the end there he says 'you're gonna rot in hell'.
 
Religious idiots gonna religiously idiot. Same old story told all across the world .
 
JPRouve said:
Doesn't the reciprocal apply? The UK is a democracy which means that believer of a religion have the right to complain, protest and demand changes. Also calling a democracy, secular, when it has religious bank holidays is suspect.
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protesting is fine but they're making violent threats because people want to watch a film
 
SilentWitness said:
this whole “don’t like it, live somewhere else” nonsense is one of the worst and most daft lines that is thrown about by scum like him.
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He's a chancer, he doesn't give a shit about whether Cineworld are forced to halt screenings of the film. He probably would support forcing them to halt screenings of a film if it suited his agenda. He just feasts on situations like this, so reasonable people who usually dislike or disagree with him will say 'oh he's not that bad that Laurence fella'.
 
Carolina Red said:
Wasn’t this movie made by Muslims?
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The screenwriter (also an imam) is the equivalent of a Westboro Baptist Church member to wider Christianity. He’s been banned from most Gulf countries and Iran.

The Iranian UK Ambassador has even condemned it and encouraged UK Muslims to speak out and protest:

Iran Calls On U.K. Muslims To Act Against 'Divisive' Film


‘In a letter to the Shi'ite and Sunni Islamic centers in the U.K., I categorically condemned the film...as a divisive action, and expressed concern over attempts to create division and hatred among Muslims at this sensitive time," Ambassador Hamid Baeidinejad tweeted on February 1.

Baeidinejad urged the both Shi'a and Sunnis to "be vigilant and act in unity to condemn this film and resort to legal steps to ban the film in the U.K."

https://www.rferl.org/a/iran-calls-on-uk-muslims-to-act-against-divisive-film/31080868.html
 
Tarrou said:
protesting is fine but they're making violent threats because people want to watch a film
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You mean few made threats or are you suggesting that everyone is making threats or even a majority? Also as a free speech supporter he routinely claims that people should be able to say anything they like but apparently that doesn't apply to anyone.

His take is as dumb as it gets and he also doesn't apply it to everyone, it's selective secularism and free speech. And to be clear, I'm not in favor of threats or unlimited free speech but he is.
 
Carolina Red said:
Still a Muslim… and that generalization matters in the context of what Shamans posted.
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Yeah that's fair enough, I was just hoping to point out that him being a Shia muslim is an important part of why this is a divisive and provocative film.
 
I can understand why the movie can be controversial given that it's created by a Shia cleric that demonizes certain Islamic figures, it seems a deliberate attempt to stoke anger and hatred with Sunnis and to show them in a bad light.

There is freedom of speech, obviously, but when someone is making a movie with malintentions it should be looked at further by the authorities.

Not taking any sides in the Sunni Shia debate but if a Sunni cleric made a movie demonizing Shia figures then it should be similarly criticized.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
I can understand why the movie can be controversial given that it's created by a Shia cleric that demonizes certain Islamic figures, it seems a deliberate attempt to stoke anger and hatred with Sunnis and to show them in a bad light.

There is freedom of speech, obviously, but when someone is making a movie with malintentions it should be looked at further by the authorities.
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Which authorities?
 
Gehrman said:
Which authorities?
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I'm sure there is a board that controls which movies are allowed to be shown in UK cinemas. If you have a movie glorifying Nazism or racism then I'm sure there would calls to ban those as well.
 
Unfortunately this is what happens after years of pandering to whichever minority activist group fancies making the most noise. This story will only embolden them all to get even more aggressive about whichever topic they happen to get worked up about.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
I can understand why the movie can be controversial given that it's created by a Shia cleric that demonizes certain Islamic figures, it seems a deliberate attempt to stoke anger and hatred with Sunnis and to show them in a bad light.

There is freedom of speech, obviously, but when someone is making a movie with malintentions it should be looked at further by the authorities.

Not taking any sides in the Sunni Shia debate but if a Sunni cleric made a movie demonizing Shia figures then it should be similarly criticized.
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Gehrman said:
Which authorities?
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The BBFC are in charge of film classification in the UK and I’m sure their brief includes checking for hate speech etc
 
And here I thought I knew all movies that were slated for Cineworld release as well.
Hadnt even heard of it until these protests were in the news.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
The BBFC are in charge of film classification in the UK and I’m sure their brief includes checking for hate speech etc
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But I'm not sure if there are reports that film actually includes hate speech and anyway hate speech or hateful depictions does feature in all types of art. In all kinds of different movies and works of art different religious groups feature as the baddies or depicted in a bad light. There has been no end to for instance featuring the catholic church in a bad light for quite a long time now or movies that take place in the dark ages.

However it looks like the maker of the film is obviously a troll.
 
Gehrman said:
But I'm not sure if there are reports that film actually includes hate speech and anyway hate speech or hateful depictions does feature in all types of art. In all kinds of different movies and works of art different religious groups feature as the baddies or depicted in a bad light. There has been no end to for instance featuring the catholic church in a bad light for quite a long time now or movies that take place in the dark ages.
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And some christians manifest, protest and on few occasions try to burn theaters.
 
I have sympathy with those people who are offended, and a peaceful protest would of course be their right. However, getting over-agitated to the point that other people are worried about their safety is wrong, and the protesters should be moved on by the police.

If we choose to live in liberal democracies where people of all faiths live together and no one perspective is held above any other, we are bound to be offended by something at some point.
 
JPRouve said:
And some christians manifest, protest and on few occasions try to burn theaters.
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Which hopefully lands them in jail for arson. It hasn't stopped the negative depictions of Christianity though.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
I can understand why the movie can be controversial given that it's created by a Shia cleric that demonizes certain Islamic figures, it seems a deliberate attempt to stoke anger and hatred with Sunnis and to show them in a bad light.

There is freedom of speech, obviously, but when someone is making a movie with malintentions it should be looked at further by the authorities.

Not taking any sides in the Sunni Shia debate but if a Sunni cleric made a movie demonizing Shia figures then it should be similarly criticized.
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hasanejaz88 said:
I'm sure there is a board that controls which movies are allowed to be shown in UK cinemas. If you have a movie glorifying Nazism or racism then I'm sure there would calls to ban those as well.
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I agree.
 
Gehrman said:
But I'm not sure if there are reports that film actually includes hate speech and anyway hate speech or hateful depictions does feature in all types of art. In all kinds of different movies and works of art different religious groups feature as the baddies or depicted in a bad light. There has been no end to for instance featuring the catholic church in a bad light for quite a long time now or movies that take place in the dark ages.

However it looks like the maker of the film is obviously a troll.
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I haven’t seen the film (and have no intention of watching it) so I’ve no idea if the content should be banned or not. I’m just pointing out that the BBFC are the body responsible for deciding whether the film should be allowed to be broadcast or not (and/or if it should be restricted to adults only)
 
JPRouve said:
You mean few made threats or are you suggesting that everyone is making threats or even a majority? Also as a free speech supporter he routinely claims that people should be able to say anything they like but apparently that doesn't apply to anyone.

His take is as dumb as it gets and he also doesn't apply it to everyone, it's selective secularism and free speech. And to be clear, I'm not in favor of threats or unlimited free speech but he is.
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well just the guy shouting in the video

and yeah, I don’t agree with that take if he means everyone

to be clear I hate Fox and everything he stands for.. he’s a massive twat
 
It's about time we let the vague interpretation of a religious book from thousands of years ago dictate what we can and can't watch in a western country in 2022.

Get to feck freedom of speech, independant thinking and artistic expession.. never done anyone any good
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I haven’t seen the film (and have no intention of watching it) so I’ve no idea if the content should be banned or not. I’m just pointing out that the BBFC are the body responsible for deciding whether the film should be allowed to be broadcast or not (and/or if it should be restricted to adults only)
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Well yeah we are all arguing about a film we havn't seen. I read a fairly good article about that today about this film, about how its a win for all the film critics who have never actually seen it. However it does sound amateurish but I might just watch if I can find a way to see it because controversy provokes interest. And I have too much time on my hands anyway, but I don't know if I would be able to sit through it.
 
I'm not sure I understand what some people are saying about protests. Not focusing on this particular one, but in general aren't protests supposed to bother other people (not threat of course)? Isn't that the whole point? If they don't bother anyone, why would w«anyone care?
 
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