Not the same because that one season in Marseille, Drogba was a beast. Played at a much higher level than Benteke ever has.
Christian Benteke | BBC: Liverpool Agree £32.5m Fee
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Not the same because that one season in Marseille, Drogba was a beast. Played at a much higher level than Benteke ever has.
Benteke is only being conflated with Drogba because he's a 6'+ striker who shows flashes in terms of the ability to bully defenders, and is of African descent. Nowhere close to Didier who at a similar age was the best player in Ligue 1 (mind you, this was a time when they had the likes of Juninho, Govou, Pauleta, Sonny Anderson, Evra, Giuly, Prso and a dominant Olympique Lyonnais team), and scored 11 goals in Europe (5 in the Champions League) on his way to reaching the UEFA Cup final, winning the Onze D'Or, and Ligue 1 Player of the Year. Drogba was in a much higher realm in terms of footballing ability, or goal scoring consistency. Very lazy comparison based on superficial things, or discrete resemblances in playing style, rather than actual ability.
Thats true but drogba was a goal every 2 game striker for most his career. Benteke is already a goal every 2 game striker already and has plenty of time to improve.
Ligue 1 is the most defensive top league in the world IMO. Scoring goals there isn't more easy than in EPL which has a poor standard of defending.
Thats just lazy to say after i said that all belgian players be that lukaku, fellaini or benteke who play with strength are looked down upon for not being technical enough.
Benteke has played in the PL for 3 years and have the same goal to game ratio as drogba at aston villa; not marseille. If anything that should be a positive for benteke surely?
Yes, in your opinion.
Is this sarcasm? Italians will always be the best defenders.
I don't think that Serie A is that great at defending as it was before (though in that aspect is still better than La Liga, EPL and Bundesliga), and IMO Ligue 1 is the most defensive from them all.
Any comparison with Drogba is quite pointless. Drogba started playing football a decade later than most players. He was always going to be a late bloomer and not be anything exceptional at his first half of the twenties for the simple reason that he started playing late and lacked the football education other players have.
Would rather give Hernandez more playing time than spend 30 mil on this guy
And rightly so. They just aren't good enough on a technical level. It has nothing to do with them being stereotyped on the basis of being Belgian, or tall, or playing with strength. Jan Vertonghen and Vincent Kompany are just as tall or strong, but they're one of the most technically thorough defenders in the league. No need to link up imaginary dots, and question people's objectivity.
So what ? Darren Bent had a similar goal ratio for Chalrton, which was even worse than Villa. Goal ratio doesn't mean much if the rest of the qualities are much inferior, especially with a quoted fee of £32 million. That type of fee should be allocated for a striker who can one day lead United's line, and grow into one of the absolute best strikers in Europe, not a depth player.
Can't fathom why. He's so, so limited. He can't hold up the ball, can't dribble, has no physical presence and his link up play is appalling.
He can be useful as a poacher with a striking partner but with our midfield there's no way in hell that we are going to be playing 2 up front to accommodate him.
As a lone striker he offers nothing.
I'd definitely rather spend £32m and have Benteke as our backup striker than spend nothing and have Hernandez.
I think quite alot of CEO's & their PA's are spending all their time on here atm..
It's an absolute head-f*ck trying to work out what Striker we should sign man.
I have 4 options in mind: Kane (over-priced & unknown quandary); Lacazette (looks the business, but plays in a shit league); Cavani (dont want to lose Di Maria as a part of this deal, so f*ck that shit); and Benteke (has massive potential & maybe we could help him fulfill that. He's a beast also & i'd love to see our Strikers rough up defenders once again, something like Fellaini did last season).
Totally agree with all that.
Hernandez offers f*ck all for the team other than tap-in's & even at that - he's deteriorated massively since his 1st season with us in scoring goals on a plate.
There's a reason why we want to get rid of him & why he went on loan last season. He's a lovely lad, but he's way out of his league with us & i'll be shocked & gutted, if he's still part of the squad & we have to endure his piss-poor footballing skills.
@Santiago_KinderBueno
This illustrates the basic flaw with goal/ assist ratio comparison between Drogba and Benteke, or reductive stats of that nature when used without due context :
Ergo, the former is comparable to, or even better than the latter as an attacker since everything can be condensed in terms of goals and assists ?
This illustrates the basic flaw with goal/ assist ratio comparison between Drogba and Benteke, or reductive stats of that nature when used without due context :
2007/ 2008 :
Ashley Young : 8 goals, 17 assists.
David Silva : 5 goals, 5 assists.
2008/ 2009 :
Ashley Young : 7 goals, 7 assists.
David Silva : 4 goals, 7 assists.
2009/ 2010 :
Ashley Young : 5 goals, 7 assists.
David Silva : 8 goals, 7 assists.
2010/ 2011 :
Ashley Young : 7 goals, 10 assists.
David Silva : 4 goals, 7 assists.
Ashley Young : 8 goals, 17 assists.
David Silva : 5 goals, 5 assists.
2008/ 2009 :
Ashley Young : 7 goals, 7 assists.
David Silva : 4 goals, 7 assists.
2009/ 2010 :
Ashley Young : 5 goals, 7 assists.
David Silva : 8 goals, 7 assists.
2010/ 2011 :
Ashley Young : 7 goals, 10 assists.
David Silva : 4 goals, 7 assists.
Ergo, the former is comparable to, or even better than the latter as an attacker since everything can be condensed in terms of goals and assists ?
That Young fella seems class - Fergie sign him up pronto..
Totally agree with this, Hernandez is garbage!
£30 million for a 1 in 2 striker is a fair price.
Bemteke or Berahino for me.
I get all that, im saying that drogba was not a particularly technical player either. He never set up anyone, focused on assisting and he was the last man. However that was what made drogba special because you give him a chance & he will make you pay.
The same goes at aston villa; and benteke pays that club very well in regards to all the service he gets.
The real question is; do we want a striker we serve or a striker that serves others?
Considering someone like depay could well turn out to be a 20-30 goal wide attacking forward; we are probably looking at a striker who is equally adept in scoring and assisting.
This is why i rekon even di maria will struggle at RW because he is not a forward who can get 20 goals out from the wings like depay can. Not even close. Depay in itself is not a very servicing winger either.
Thats why we dont need a striker of bentekes quality or neither that of lewandowski or cavani; because our goals will be primarily spread across 3 front forwards. Absolute no reason to get a striker who is reliant on the team when you can get or help grow a player like wilson or januzaj who is built to help out the team instead.
Fellaini can be a 1 in 2 prem striker?
He's a logical signing, so not sure why people are getting so worked up.
Kane, Cavani are the first choices, but we've probably tried and failed to get those. Benteke is the next best thing to those two. If anybody disagrees, then tell me another striker with the following attributes - holds up the ball, strong, pacy, scores consistently.
As for Lacazette, Berahino and Hernandez, I think we have similiar players in Rooney and Wilson. You can argue all day about Lacazette, but we've not been linked, he's an obvious target, but clearly isnt the type of striker we are looking for.
Finally the money. Bacca and Martinez went for around 20M, and are both 29. Douglas Costa went for 24M to Bayern. Turan 28M? Its inflation - I remember when city signed silva, toure, aguero - we all thought they where high prices, but by todays prices they are cheap. 32M for Benteke is alot, but then theres always going to be a premier league surcharge.
Kane, Cavani are the first choices, but we've probably tried and failed to get those. Benteke is the next best thing to those two. If anybody disagrees, then tell me another striker with the following attributes - holds up the ball, strong, pacy, scores consistently.
As for Lacazette, Berahino and Hernandez, I think we have similiar players in Rooney and Wilson. You can argue all day about Lacazette, but we've not been linked, he's an obvious target, but clearly isnt the type of striker we are looking for.
Finally the money. Bacca and Martinez went for around 20M, and are both 29. Douglas Costa went for 24M to Bayern. Turan 28M? Its inflation - I remember when city signed silva, toure, aguero - we all thought they where high prices, but by todays prices they are cheap. 32M for Benteke is alot, but then theres always going to be a premier league surcharge.
No but he can come off the bench in games where we are struggling and give us a target to hit high balls into, which is what Benteke would offer us as Rooney's back up.
We are not signing Benteke, he'll go to Liverpool by all indications.
Saying that Drogba wasn't a particularly technical player wuld be doing a great disservice to his talent level. Sure, he wasn't Henry or Shevchenko, but he was substantially better than Benteke at a similar age for both Guingamp and Marseille. Plus, as @Raven pointed out, he was a late developer so there was a steeper developmental curve involved in terms of his ultimate projection once he realized his raw ability. He set up the attackers around him pretty effectively. What made Drogba special wasn't something as simple as giving him and chance and making the opposition pay. What made him special was his fierce competitiveness, relentless defensive work-rate, the ability to ghost his marker, to rise to the occasion in bigger matches, and the natural gravitas he exuded for his club and Ivory Coast. That's almost worlds apart from Benteke's level. Just because they share a couple of traits doesn't mean they are similar players. People insulate themselves in these kind of narratives, and it's a pity because it almost never works out.
As to the question : We need a striker who combines both abilities, someone who can score 20-25 goals per season, and bring his team-mates into the game as the focal point of the attack. And there's no guarantee Memphis will score 20-30 goals in the Premier League. That's a quantum leap from the Eredivisie, so to expect that kind of return in the near future is a bit unfair. Someone like Eden Hazard scored 20 goals in the Ligue 1 in his last season for Lille, and his highest tally is 14 goals, with added experience too. Similar to Memphis' 22 in the league. Or Dusan Tadic who scored 16 for Twente, and now 4 for Southampton. Memphis would do well to break into double-digit marks, instead of 20-30, so we do kind of need a proven goalscorer to ease his burden but someone who also complements Memphis' instincts in front goal. Expecting Memphis to share significant goalscoring duties could derail him. Young players should be developed with extreme caution, with gradual increment in expectations.
Don't agree with the assessment of Lewandowski either, or the fact that we was bracketed with Cavani or Benteke. Apart from Benzema, Robert is probably the best suited striker for our tactics going forward. He can score a bunch, and bring his attacking peers into the equation because of his excellent hold-up ability and link-up play, evidenced by the success and goal-return of Gotze and Reus at Dortmund alongside him.
Might not be the most popular opinion per se, but hope this is true, or Benteke stays as Aston Villa. Don't rate him a lot in terms of what we need not just for the present, but for the future. Probably a Clyne type deal with United's name being used as a catalyst for the transfer.
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Benteke offers goals, something fellaini doesn't have. Absurd comparison.
Drogba was mediocre technically, we all know that's not what made him the special striker he was. That competitiveness you mention is what set him apart but there's little he could do with the ball Benteke can't, infact I'd say there's nothing he could do with the ball that benteke can't.
Sure.
You are talking as if he would actually be starting regularly, he wouldn't, So when would we mostly use him? When we need to switch to a plan B from the bench which is what we did with Fellaini, stuck him up top to add an aerial threat. Would he be a better option if Rooney gets crocked? sure, but £32M for the off chance that Rooney misses a couple of months is crazy considering Benteke has no long term chance of being United's main striker IMO.
You can say anything about Benteke but how can you lazily say Drogba had more goalscoring consistency at a similar age? Tell me how 49 in 100 for Benteke is less consistent than 32 in 109 for Drogba at the same age by the end of the 2002-03 season? Drogba joined Marseilles when he was 25. He stepped up even further at a bigger club, why can't Benteke do the same when his numbers are better than Drogbas at the same age and in a much better league?
Didn't you know, Young is better than Di Maria!
Let's keep Hernandez instead then - he knows how to score a goal.
I'm not, even in cameos as a bench option there's a better chance that he'd score a goal than Fellaini. We've had strikers who've played off the bench and put the ball in the back of the net plenty of times. He puts the ball in the back of the net for a living and is pretty god damn good at it while Fellaini is some failed midfielder. Stupid comparison.
But the headlines though , "Christian a devil"
This might have been true when he came to Chelsea but he definitely became a more creative player over his first stint there.
Stats seem to agree with my memory, as he is 4th all time in Prem Assists among strikers with only Rooney, Henry and RVP ahead of him. Drogba was no Bergkamp or Ibra as a creative 9, but he wasn't Chicharito or Trezeguet either.
Wut ? Lazily ? Did you follow Drogba's career for Guingamp ? Or did you look up bulk numbers on stat sites as a form of justification for the opinion ? If you followed his progress at Guingamp, it was crystal clear that Drogba progressed significantly each season leading up to the transfer to Marseille, hence the well founded consistency argument once he signed for Marseille and later Chelsea. Distinctly remember him elevating his consistency in front of goal with each season gone by, as opposed to Benteke who has regressed a lot since his breakout first season at Aston Villa where he scored something like 20 odd goals.
As for the latter part, Benteke just doesn't have the ability of Drogba to elevate himself to that level. It's really simplistic to suggest that he can replicate what Didier did for Chelsea just because his numbers are comparable at a similar age. Infact, if you scroll up the thread, there's statistical evidence to counter this very argument. Why are you considering his goal figures in a vacuum, and projecting him to be something he won't be ? This just seems eerily similar to the Dembele love-in going off his performances for Fulham.
Yep, Drogba had like 60 odd assists over his Chelsea career, yet certain people in this thread seem to remember him exclusively as some sort of technically redundant, route 1 battering ram that plowed through defenses and didn't contribute much else.
No, it's a pretty apt comparison to what both would bring, and pissing away £32M on a bench warmer with no likelihood of ever being a top #9 when Hernandez has proven affective in the super sub role is what's stupid.
Im talking strictly about your 'goalscoring consistency' claims. I didn't have to follow his career in a shit league to arrive at the fact, based on their GOALSCORING stats that Benteke is the superior goalscorer at the same age. Villa are a poor team playing in one of the best leagues in the world FFS. They've been fighting relegation since Bentekes first season there. They only scored 31 league goals in total last season yet Benteke still outscored every Man Utd forward.
LVG let Welbeck go because his goalscoring record wasn't impressive. He made that decision based on that alone, do you think he followed his career. So 32 in 109 is better than 49 in 100 as far as goalscoring is concerned. Sure thing. Plus again, Benteke did it in a much superior league. But no, I didn't follow Drogba's career, I don't know jack. The numbers speak for themselves
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Everything points to this being the case.
Sure you are.
This is just extremely funny if you don't mind me saying. You didn't even watch Drogba play at a similar stage in his career, and base things off numbers. Seems a very fool-proof approach.
Dunno why you felt the need to capitalize it, but yeah. Player 1 is someone who improved each season and became more consistent in front of goal each season, whereas Player 2 is someone who started off well in the league and has been distinctly average in the past couple of seasons. But no, the stats over 100 games should be charted to base an opinion instead of what they were ultimately developing into. Ok.
Are you seriously suggesting Van Gaal didn't actively form a very informed opinion about a player he let go, and looked up 100 game numbers on statbunker instead ? If plebs like us can look up videos, then clubs with millions at stake have extensive archives for managers to study to go with in-depth breakups.
Again with the 100 game categorization.
Then maybe don't act like you have a very detailed opinion of Drogba's consistency when he was at a similar age ? Instead of dredging up numbers from seasons gone by ?
Sure they do. Let's disregard their actual performances and base things of numbers and stats since they speak for themselves.
Rehashed :
2007/ 2008 :
Ashley Young : 8 goals, 17 assists.
David Silva : 5 goals, 5 assists.
2008/ 2009 :
Ashley Young : 7 goals, 7 assists.
David Silva : 4 goals, 7 assists.
2009/ 2010 :
Ashley Young : 5 goals, 7 assists.
David Silva : 8 goals, 7 assists.
2010/ 2011 :
Ashley Young : 7 goals, 10 assists.
David Silva : 4 goals, 7 assists.
Numbers speak for themselves.
Stats speak for themselves. I don't want to watch them, I might even know jack, but look at the numbers.
2007/ 2008 :
Ashley Young : 8 goals, 17 assists.
David Silva : 5 goals, 5 assists.
2008/ 2009 :
Ashley Young : 7 goals, 7 assists.
David Silva : 4 goals, 7 assists.
2009/ 2010 :
Ashley Young : 5 goals, 7 assists.
David Silva : 8 goals, 7 assists.
2010/ 2011 :
Ashley Young : 7 goals, 10 assists.
David Silva : 4 goals, 7 assists.
Numbers speak for themselves.
Stats speak for themselves. I don't want to watch them, I might even know jack, but look at the numbers.
@Invictus yes the numbers do speak for themselves, the stats you posted just illustrate that those players were more productive despite all the criticism they get from many fans. Valencia was very solid last season. He had a better season than Coleman and Clyne. Im not even saying Benteke is better than Drogba, but he did have better goalscoring figures than Drogba at the same age and thats a fact no?
They don't mate, they really don't, atleast not as a standalone entity regardless of actual performances. Young might get criticized unfairly at times but he was not a better attacker than David Silva while he was at Aston Villa, and Silva was at Valencia despite the numbers suggesting otherwise. Antonio might have been good last season, and that's a testament to hi versaility and professionalism, I won't debate it because he does deserve his share of praise. But if you go solely by quantified data, then he was a better defender than Lahm in 2012/ 2013 when Bayern won the treble, and Philip was by far the best right-back in Europe, even finished Top 15 in the Ballon D'Or. Stats and numbers are a fraction of the whole picture, and in isolation, they don't convey the actual performance level of players.
As for Drogba/ Benteke, perhaps you misconstrued the emphasis of the point, or maybe I didn't convey it probably. In the latter case, it's my bad. If instead of looking at 100+ games, you watch Drogba and Benteke separately on a year-to-year progressie basis - the former improved each season and became more consistent with his goalscoring sharpness, shooting ability, touch, timing and so forth. Whereas Benteke has failed to replicate his form from 2012/ 2013. What I'm essentially trying to say is that one player was constantly improving and on an upward curve which projected well for his future performances. While the other had regressed, and on a likely downward pointing performance curve.
As for Drogba/ Benteke, perhaps you misconstrued the emphasis of the point, or maybe I didn't convey it probably. In the latter case, it's my bad. If instead of looking at 100+ games, you watch Drogba and Benteke separately on a year-to-year progressie basis - the former improved each season and became more consistent with his goalscoring sharpness, shooting ability, touch, timing and so forth. Whereas Benteke has failed to replicate his form from 2012/ 2013. What I'm essentially trying to say is that one player was constantly improving and on an upward curve which projected well for his future performances. While the other had regressed, and on a likely downward pointing performance curve.
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